Is breaking a child's toys a valid method of punishment?

[JVS]

You know issue ultimatums like "If you don't shut up, the teddy bear goes on the fire"

[StopTheMorans]

1. only if you make the kids pay you back for them

[enki23]

2. actual breakage, or only the threat of breakage?

is this breakage equal to or greater than the trauma associated with major security-blanket failure?

[JVS]

4. Threats that are backed up by action

[BrklynLiberal]

3. No.

[DrWeird]

5. Malcom in the Middle?

nt

[alittlelark]

6. If you kill it, you have to eat it

otherwise it is immoral.

[swimmernsecretsea]

7. No.

It doesn't teach the child anything except that you don't have respect for their possessions, and that you don't mind your child seeing you become vindictive and destroying their property.

[JVS]

11. It could serve as a deterrent to poor behavior

[Pithlet]

28. In case you're being serious

Just about anything horrific can be a deterrent to bad behavior. There are limits on what is acceptable, however.

[JVS]

31. Not being serious, but it seems odd that spanking is less abhorrant to...

many people here than breaking a toy is.

[Pithlet]

34. It is odd. I agree.

Things that would land you in jail for abuse against a spouse are perfectly okay to do to your kid.

I admit, I'm relieved at the responses in this thread. I predicted there would be more than a few stating that parents today are too soft, and the reason they see kids screaming in the supermarket is because they have parents that aren't shitty enough to break their toys in front of them.

[Seabiscuit]

61. What worthless pop pscyh rag taught you that???

[Bouncy Ball]

8. Geez.

I know this is probably a joke, but I hate it when parents or other authority figures do that to kids.

I used to believe my stuffed animals came to life when I left the room. My brother found out about this and proceeded to drop kick them all over my room. I cried.

[fishwax]

97. I had similar experiences with my brother

came home from kindergarten to find papa smurf with a noose around his neck, swinging from the ceiling fan. I was horrified, at the time.

[traco]

123. That is so cruel

I hope you found a way to pay him back!

[MichiganVote]

9. That's not punishment, that's just stupid. No.

[WindRavenX]

10. jesus christ no

Destroying things- even something that is a cheap toy- in order to "punish" or teach a child a lesson is quite wrong. What does it teach a child?
In my personal experience, the most effective punishment for disciplining a child is a time out- how long depends on the severity of the misbehaving of the child.
Destroying objects as a form of punishment is often times EXTREMELY emotionally scaring to children.

[GRLMGC]

12. That's so mean

Oh my God

[Ladyhawk]

13. No. eom

[Shrek]

14. You mean literally break them?

I don't know about that; it seems wasteful.

But I have come close. Instead of breaking them, we just boxed them up and made a donation to the homeless shelter. It got my son's attention like nothing else did and the kids at the shelter got some cool nearly-new stuff for a change.

[derby378]

15. No way - it intimidates kids, but doesn't teach them anything

My parents used to hold that threat over us when we were real little: "Do you want me to break that with a hammer?" They never did, though. Maybe they just thought we didn't appreciate what we already had. But looking back, it seems pretty stupid. All it teaches kids is that by shutting up, you protect what you have.

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. Absolutely not.

Taking it away, yes. Even giving it away, okay. Throwing it away - mmm, maybe not.

But absolutely not breaking it - for one, that's just bad stewardship of one's money and also an environmental waste. For another, it teaches that violence can be a helpful solution. Breaking is a violent act. What's the next step? An arm? And it also makes no link between the crime and the punishment. "I was being loud...so mommy put my teddy bear in the fire. I think I better live a really high-stress and anxious life from now on, wondering if I don't eat my peas that she'll shit in my lunchbox, or if I don't clean up my toys she'll tear up my clothes or something."

Taking it away - that's not a violent act. It also offers room for reconciliation and grace, since you can then later give the toy back when they calm down.

[gollygee]

17. No

it scares them through being destructive, and it isn't right to destroy their property.

[Worst Username Ever]

18. You can take away the privilege of playing with that toy for a couple days

but not destroy it. Ouch.

[ScreamingMeemie]

133. I agree.

:thumbsup:

[Nikia]

19. That's horrible

Young children get attatched to things. Setting their favorite teddy bear on fire might be like killing their dog or even brother in their minds. Even if it is not quite that bad, it almost is. The kid will perceive it as a violent action.

[Pithlet]

20. No

It isn't discipline. It's just cruel. People who do this kind of thing are just being mean, vindictive assholes to their kids, not parents.

[Kadie]

21. No. Nor should you tell a child to "shut up".

My opinion anyway.

[traco]

46. "Shut up" is one of the most harmful

phrases you can use on a child. I will use "Be quiet please", but never "shut up"

[redqueen]

22. Goodness, no!

[blue neen]

23. No way.

Some day that child will grow up and break your toys.

[murielm99]

24. That sounds like something Dobson would recommend.

eom

[JVS]

25. Who's Dobson?

[fob]

27. SpongeDob Sonofgawdpants

James Dobson the idiot who thinks SpongeBob is part of the gayening of American youth

[murielm99]

30. Dr. James Dobson, Focus on the Family

Beat your kids and your dog. SpongeBob is gay.

[Left Is Write]

40. Yes, a strong proponent of corporal punishment.

Misuses "spare the rod, spoil the child."

[Pithlet]

26. Dr Phil has recommended it.

Dobson would take it a level further, and recommend beating a child with the toy until it breaks.

[Wat_Tyler]

29. Dr. Phil recommended that a child's toys should be destroyed?

If that's true, he's not much of a psychologist.

[Pithlet]

32. A parent was having a hard time

getting their 5 and 3 year old boys to keep their room clean. He recommended throwing away their favorite teddy bear as punishment. It might not be on the same level as actually destroying it in front of them, but it's barbaric, nonetheless. It's a difference of degree, not kind. I've never been a fan of his, anyway.

[Wat_Tyler]

36. Christ, talk about deep psychological scarring.

That's a really bad fix for a situation like that. I would not dream of doing that.

[traco]

55. I just got rid of a large black trash bag of toys

but I let my kids choose which ones they wanted to get rid of.

[Pithlet]

60. That's good.

You can't keep all toys forever. They get old. Pieces go missing. Part of growing up is learning that you can't keep everything.

[traco]

77. A couple years ago we took

a huge trash bag of stuffed animals to the hospital. Most of them still had the tags on them. We asked if they could give them to kids that came into the emergency room.

We took this HUGE stuffed dog...must have been 3 to 4 feet high...asked them to give that to a child that really, really needed a friend.

There was a child that went in having been abused. They got to take that big dog to the foster home. They also got to keep it when they went home to their grandparents house. I heard it really helped them!

My kids are going to be 5 and 10 this year. I still had some baby toys here. We got rid of them the other day. :cry:

[underseasurveyor]

127. No. Although his premise is to remove the "privilege" of having toys

or TVs, VCRs, play stations, etc., and the child is certainly entitled to eventually earn these things back based on their attitudes over a given amount of time. But if it does come down to wire and the child's behavior will not warrant the return of such "luxuries" and not "necessities" then I believe he advocates more of a give it to someone who will appreciate it, or selling it. Not destroying it.

[Pithlet]

129. His exact words were "throw it in the garbage"

I don't have a link. But, I heard him say this on his show.

[Hand]

45. Dr. Phil is a sick, manipulative mindfucker

He spent altogether too much time quizzing the prez candidates about spanking in their families, for one thing (count on Jon Stewart to notice that).

His son is some kind of group therapist or similar--and as bad as his father. They should both be put away in Abu Ghraib...

:puke:

[Seabiscuit]

63. I don't believe Dr. Phil would recommend that.

And I don't know who "Dobson" is.

No sane person would *ever* even THINK of doing such a thing.

[Pithlet]

69. I wouldn't categorize Dobson's advice as anything sane.

Do a google on him. You'll be shocked, just like I was the first time I learned about him.

[Seabiscuit]

85. I wouldn't consider him sane either.

[Dukkha]

33. only if your goal in life

is to die alone with your children harboring bitter hostility towards you for destroying what precious few happy memories they will have in their terribly unhappy adult lives.

[msgadget]

35. No, I really think it's going too far.

Withholding it for a while or having the child earn it back - maybe. Kids eventually figure out how desperate parents are when they do things like this.

[Mojambo]

37. No

All it does is reinforce the idea that their possessions are the only important things in life.

I think we need less of that in this country.

[JVS]

39. One could argue that it demonstrates that material possesions are fleeting

and thus should not be valued

[Mojambo]

43. But as a method to acheive obedience

I think that message might be lost (or more likely misinterpreted.) Particularly by a child.

[Seabiscuit]

66. "One could argue" all the stupedist ideas under the sun..

and probably even find some Biblical passage to support each stupid argument.

That doesn't even begin to make any such arguments worthy of serious consideration.

[Left Is Write]

38. No. I think that's mean.

I also wouldn't tell my kids to "shut up."

If they are having a screaming tantrum and cannot or will not calm themselves, they can go to their room until they are able or willing to be calm.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

41. I hope you're kidding...

I think that's a horribly cruel thing to do.

On the other hand, a short time away from a favorite toy can be an effective method of discipline.

[traco]

42. When I was a kid...about 5 years old

my mom's boyfriends got mad at me. He picked up my bike and slammed it down hard on the driveway. My bike was ruined! I was devastated!

That was the end of that relationship too! My mom was worried that if he could do that, he would hurt one of us kids!

[Mojambo]

44. You're very lucky your mom was smart enough to dump him

I had some friends when I was a kid who had step parents that brutally abused them.

[traco]

50. We got away from that one, but

She got together with this other man who was 30 years older than her. He was very abusive. He tried to backhand me when I was about 13 or 14. I put my foot in the air and threatened his family jewels if he did it. Told him to go ahead, I was a dead aim!

[SarahB]

49. When I was 6....

My mom's boyfriend got mad at me and dumped me in the snow. My mom still thinks it's a humorous story and I got what I deserved.

[traco]

56. Was it fun for you or did it traumatize you?

If you weren't traumatized, and your mom understood that, then I guess her reaction is ok, but if you were traumatized...it is very inconsiderate of her to not support you in the situation.

[SarahB]

74. No, it wasn't fun.

In the grand scheme of things it wasn't "traumatic", just not exactly pleasant either and as a parent myself, I know I would never tolerate abuse of my children. As for my mother, that's just the way she is unfortunately. Not everyone in the world loves their children.

[traco]

80. I'm sorry you have had to go through that

Me and my kids were very hurt by my ex, their dad. I have decided that I am very happy being alone until they are grown up and out of the house. I don't want them to be hurt by a step parent. :hug:

[SarahB]

47. No

Psycho Parenting 101 right there in fact :(

[Karenina]

48. ABSOLUTELY NEVER.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[iconoclastic cat]

51. One aspect of the pre-adolescent psyche is "animism."

This is the state in which children believe that inanimate objects--the sun, a stuffed bear, etc.--have thoughts and feelings. You would, in effect, be murdering them.

[JVS]

52. What if it is something less animal-like, a monopoly set for example?

[iconoclastic cat]

103. That's a tough one.

I suppose anything is possible. For instance, look at a child's fear of the dark or a slightly ajar closet door; just because these things don't have a face doesn't mean that a child won't attach some sort of sentience to such objects.

A monopoly set? Maybe not. I still wouldn't do it, though. Actually, I think a revocation of priviliges would be more effective. I, however, am not a parent.

[JimmyJazz]

53. The punishment has to relate somehow to the behavior --

If a child hits a brother or sister, the punishment can't be to break a toy - that doesn't make any sense to me as a grown up, how can it make sense to a child. It's just cruel.

However, to remove toys that aren't picked up to be returned on a designated day, is good effective parenting.

[JVS]

54. Perhaps for very young children, but a 9-14 year old should have no...

problem understanding the abstract concept of punishment.

[Pithlet]

57. True. However

Parenting isn't just about punishing. It's about raising a fellow human being. Most parents hope that human will be a decent person. Punishments can correct bad behavior and discourage it, but they can also have unintended side effects. Destroying a child's property as a form of punishment may technically work, but could also be teaching them that it's okay to disrespect another's property. It could be teaching them that might equals right. It could be teaching them that being forceful and hurtful towards someone you love is acceptable, and the only way to get what you want out of someone. I'm not saying that every parent who does such a thing is going to raise an abusive monster. But, it certainly isn't contributing in any meaningful, helpful way on their journey to adulthood. There are so many other ways to get the message across, and to get your kids to behave.

[Mojambo]

75. "There are so many other ways to get the message across"

Bingo!

My brother occasionally uses the "I'll throw your toys away" tactic and every time I see it the same thing pops into my head.

That's lazy parenting.

[gollygee]

62. So you're talking about throwing a 9 to 14-year-old's teddy bear on the

fire?

[JVS]

65. That particular case would probably be someone a bit younger

but the idea being considered could be applied to children of any age.

[JimmyJazz]

64. So to teach a child to value and respect your

things, you demonstrate that you have none for his? I just feel there are better, more respectful ways to discipline. But, I only have little guys right now - maybe, I'll feel differently when they are older.

[JVS]

67. Who said anything about teaching to respect the parent's things...

it's a matter of obedience or retribution

[gollygee]

68. Well I guess that's the problem I have

Obedience isn't a goal of mine.

I want my daughter to think for herself, and I don't feel any need to punish her. Especially just for talking (shut up or I'll throw the teddy bear on the fire . . .)

[Pithlet]

72. If a parent's only goal is obedience

then I think that person might have been better off getting a dog. No disrespect intended. But obedience should NOT be the only concern when raising a child.

[JVS]

73. But obedience definitely is a concern

The quesion was if it is a valid method of discipline, which many reasonable people such as yourself say it isn't and provide good reasoning for. But there seem to be some who interpret the question as is it a good primary method of raising children. Of course not! Even if it were a useful method of discipline (something I doubt) it isn't the end and be all of child rearing.

[Pithlet]

78. I think what is going on

is that some of the responses here are assuming that a parent who would do such a thing and consider it a valid punishment might not be very adept at deciding what other methods are and aren't okay. It's probably a safe bet to assume that a person who would do that may have questionable parenting skills.

[JimmyJazz]

90. But, under those circumstances, the obedience would only be

for that particular situation/moment. The objective is to teach over the long term -- I don't see where destroying a child's toy is teaching them anything long term, except maybe to be resentful of the parent who destroyed the toy.

I'm not saying that I have all the answers to rearing children - but, you asked for an opinion and I provided one. I have never felt the need to destroy a child's toy to punish her for her behavior.

I've also never threatened to leave my child in a store or at home if they didn't hurry up. I try really hard not to use "because I said so" as a reason for them to obey me. I don't belittle them in public or in private and I tell them every damn day how much I love them.

My goal is to raise two decent human beings who have respect for others and good health self esteem adn who are happy in life - I don't need them to obedient little robots at every given moment in order to accomplish that goal.

[gollygee]

98. It would be obedience through fear

Which teaches a child to obey only if they're afraid.

I'm not personally concerned about my daughter obeying me. If something needs to be done, it needs to be done simply because it needs to be done, not because I tell her it needs to be done.

[NorthernSpy]

58. Of course not! You have to ask?

Temporary confiscation is one thing, but 'murdering' a kid's teddy bear?

There are people who have killed the family's pets in order to terrify the children into submission. I guess that's just the next step to take if incinerating the kid's possessions doesn't work.

:eyes:

[Seabiscuit]

59. WTF???

What a sick, twisted, outrageous idea!

:wtf:

[Seabiscuit]

70. There are far too many screwed up kids in the world already.

And no wonder, if even one person on this planet can think up such an idea in the first place.

Shame! Shame! Shame!

[JVS]

71. Give me a break

:eyes:

[Seabiscuit]

84. Why should I? Your question is insane and very dangerous.

[JVS]

86. No it's not. It's a variation of a question discussed earlier, whether...

it is ok to spank.

My question is whether it is ok to threaten a child's posessions. The example is a bit outlandish, but the question is perfectly sane and safe

[cags]

76. Ok Heres what I did to my daughters favorite blanky

First I'll say that I never threaten my kids with anything that I won't really do.

Heres the story
She was around 3 or 4 and her older sister was 10. She was constantly, I mean daily going in her sisters room and breaking or ruining something of hers. She was told many many times to stop.

She had(which she still has to this day) a special blanket. At night she would rub the tag between her fingers and it helped her to sleep.
So I finally told her that if she ruined one more thing of her sisters that I would cut the tag off her blanket. I said it because I wanted her to understand how she was ruining her sisters special things.

And she did it again, so I cut off half the tag. She was horrified but I think she finally understood what she was doing to her sister, because she didn't do it again.

She's 6 now and still has the blanket and occasionally rubs the half of the tag that is left. And sometimes she asks me to tell her the story of how she lost half her tag.

Am I terrible?

[JVS]

79. I don't think you are terrible.

[Pithlet]

82. You aren't terrible.

For one thing, what you did is nowhere near "shut up or teddy gets it". Not even in the same universe.

[immoderate]

81. Well...if they start ignoring those taser shocks...

you must prevail, right?

--IMM

[JVS]

83. Never surrender to impudence!

[immoderate]

91. Yes! We must stamp out impudence wherever it rears its snarky

little head.

(Note: this is the first time in history that I have used the word snarky. I'm hoping I did this effectively.)

--IMM

[JVS]

93. Looks about right to me

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

87. I don't have kids, but it seems to me that it's setting a bad example

If you want them to break your stuff, then show them how by breaking something of theirs. :shrug:

[Skittles]

88. no

it is childish and pathetic

[faithfulcitizen]

89. no it's mean, and very immature...

:eyes:

[sendero]

92. NO...

.... but taking the toys away for a time is.

[China_cat]

94. Good grief, no.

One of my earliest memories is of my stepfather burning a stuffed donkey my grandfather had won for me at the fair. It was purple with a red saddle and bridle.

Much as I hate admitting my age, that was 55 years ago and I still hate that man for doing that to me. He knew it was my favorite thing in the whole world at the time.

[donheld]

95. That's just plain stupid

IMHO

[Katidid]

96. Absolutely not. . .

I would consider it 'cruel and unusual' behavior on the part of the parent, and again, teaches destruction as an acceptable way of communicating.

[BikeWriter]

99. Many children have active imaginations and endow their toys with feelings.

...breaking one could be tantamount to killing it.

[HEyHEY]

100. Yes, that AND a spanking - no dinner either.

How many days without food depends on the severity of the infraction!

[JVS]

101. As the 100th post on this thread, you win a hammer

You can use it to wreck kids' toys!

[HEyHEY]

102. Good, the chainsaw I was using was getting too expensive to run

With these oil prices

[iconoclastic cat]

104. The hammer wears out long before the anvil.

Be the anvil.

[JVS]

105. If you wear out a hammer breaking your kids toys, it isn't working

[shesemsmom]

106. NO never

you should never break or distroy a childs toy as punishment. Send them to the corner, swat em on the fanny. Take away the TV or video games but never distroy a toy. That only teaches hate.

[saltpoint]

107. Speaking strictly for myself, I would call it savagery.

An adult who threatens to break a child's toy conveys to that child a message of unapproachable dominance and violence.

It is akin to a maurauding army burning a defenseless village.

I don't know who urged this form of punishment but I believe you should no longer seek his or her counsel in these matters.

[Skip Intro]

108. cruelty is never the right choice

[WMliberal]

109. yeah... having my baseball cards burned worked.

I didn't beat my sister up for at least a week afterward. Ah, to be 8 again.

[Valerie5555]

110. How about SELLING THEM ON E BAY like the guy in Texas did

eom

[IronLionZion]

111. Parents these days are way too soft

stop wondering why your children don't respect their elders and start disciplining them.

Burning a toy you paid for is silly. Take it away and spank your child. When he/she behaves, give it back.

[ultraist]

112. Spank your child?

Hitting another human, whether they are small or large is violent. Why would we want to teach our children it's ok to violate others or use violence to control someone?

I have never used physical punishment on my children and both are very well behaved.

Spanking is abusive, IMO. There are far more civilized ways to teach your children.

And vandalizing and destroying their property is ludicrious, not to mention, extremely immature.

We revoke certain privileges in extreme cases (ie not getting homework done, so we removed the cable and the xbox for several days) but we try to let natural consequences be the lesson.

Practice what you preach: Respect yourself, others, and your environment

[IronLionZion]

114. If your children behave then good for you,

But too many children mouth off or even abuse their parents (especially their mom) and the parents are like "what am I gonna do with him/her" with an exasperated look on their face.

Since it takes a village to raise a child, if the s/he abuses everyone, someone in the village will beat him. It's better if that person is his parent.

[Maddy McCall]

115. Most idiotic post I have ever read at DU.

:eyes:

[IronLionZion]

119. wow thanks!

You flatter me :P

[Cadence]

125. I second that!

That is frickin ridiculous!

[ultraist]

122. They weren't born brats

They became that way due to poor parenting skills. Do you have children?

My kids certainly aren't perfect and I do END conversations if they start talking back but engaging in violent or destructive behaviors are NEVER effective ways to teach your children to be civilized people.

The goal should not be to "punish" a child but to teach them. All kids push the limits, that's normal. Using inappropriate behaviors in attempt to teach children what is appropriate is insane.

[Valerie5555]

113. How about threatening to give it to the Red Cross for the tsunami victims?

???????????????????????????????????? Just kidding for maybe the Red Cross or UNICEF needs money instead..............................

[Maddy McCall]

116. You assume that kids disrespect their elders because they aren't spanked?

Makes absolutely no sense to me.

[IronLionZion]

120. why don't you tell us why, oh wise one!

And how you deal with it. So we can all share your special secret :P

[Cadence]

126. Yeah, sounds like you could really use a clue. n/t

[IronLionZion]

128. you too hon

:P

[sleipnir]

117. Yes. Burn it all.

Ashes, ashes, all my kid's toys burned down....

[ChoralScholar]

118. absolutely not...

everything you do as a parent, even in discipline, must be worthy of being modeled/imitated by your children later in life.

If your child modeled some variant of this behavior later in life, would it serve them well as young adults?

once again, absolutely not.

[Cadence]

121. Yes it's valid .... if you're trying to raise mafia children.

Otherwise. Uh. No.

[ChairOne]

124. I say do a whole teddybear sacrifice ritual.....

Cut out the stuffing-heart with a dull butter knife and feed it to the child. Then throw the empty husk of the body into the eternal damnation of the gas bbq, and make dinner. Finally, salt the ground beneath the youngster's bicycle with the ashes of his former friend.

If that don't teach the tyke, nothing will.

[barb162]

130. taking the toy away would be better especially if you bought it

[JVS]

131. I'm kicking this in case there is anything more anyone wants to say

[RPM]

134. hiyoooooooooooooooooooo - n/t

[RPM]

132. no. but mother throwing an older sibling across the room...

sure seems to send a message. Don't you think?

[JVS]

135. I wouldn't know about that

[RPM]

136. oh

repressing these days???

[Solly Mack]

137. Just in case anyone cares...but...

Well, it is a punishment, but a very childish one that lets the child know just who isn't in control.


That would make it invalid for the purpose of discipline.

Secondly, never say "If" to a child. Because "If" is a challenge. Children can't resist a dare. It's part of their becoming autonomous beings.

Use "When" instead. It conveys a direct consequence for a specific behavior...or misbehavior. "When you do (whatever offense), I will do (whatever consequence)

Keeping in mind that you should never claim you're going to do something you know you never will do. If you promise to discipline in a certain manner and then don't follow through, the child then knows you aren't very good on following through with discipline.

So don't say "I'll break all your toys" , unless you mean it.

But that gets us back to is that a valid punishment. :)