Why do singers get criticized for not being songwriters too?

[liontamer]

Isn't being able to sing and perform talent? Wouldn't music be better if we let the best singers sing the best songs written by the the best songwriters?

I personally think pop music would be better if performers didn't feel obligated to write songs to maintain "credibility".

[redqueen]

1. I don't know... seems silly to me.

[DrWeird]

2. Sure, it's a talent.

But it's not a multi-million dollar talent.

[liontamer]

3. singing isn't million dollar talent?

how does one explain elvis?

[MemphisTiger]

6. Agreed. Do we expect actors to write the movies they star in?

I think not. Elvis Rules

[DrWeird]

8. Highly overrated.

Althought he also played the guitar, did a little acting, pushed social envelopes, and used his hips to catapult millions of screaming girls into sexual insanity.

[Magrittes Pipe]

4. Because some people don't understand that performance is an art.

Some people are also prejudiced against songwriters who don't perform.

Just because Debbie Gibson did both, that sure as hell doesn't make her a greater artist than the songwriting team of Brian Holland, Eddie Holland, and Lamont Dozier; nor does it make her a greater artist than Four Tops singer Levi Stubbs. Such an argument would be patently ludicrous.

Still, there are some people out there who have patently ludicrous thoughts about music. ;)

[Occulus]

11. And then again

there are plenty who style themselves as musicians, but are actually performers, and can't even do that well. Look at all the lipsynching going on in concerts and special events these days.

That, and it's difficult for me as a musician to place pop performers who sing songs with repetitive choruses and chord progressions (ex: Madonna's "Ray of Light" is I-IV-I-IV-I-IV almost the whole way through) with, say, an orchestral soloist who memorizes and performs flawlessly hundreds or thousands of notes in a single piece. One could say I gfind a line dividing musicians from performers.

Not that there's anything wrong with this, but it seems to me that the vast majority of our pop performers these days could be one hell of a lot more well-rounded, musically speaking. IMO, they should all be at least capable of writing their own songs.

[liontamer]

13. but i think expecting them to write their own songs lowers the bar

most pop performers have no real musical training so they just write little ditties that sound like other songs and are very simple. If we let the real composers write the music we'd have less of the silly repetitive crap we get.

[Magrittes Pipe]

14. I'm sure most of them could write a song better than Diane Warren.

Let's leave out the crap for the moment. A poorly-written song is a poorly-written song; and only a truly great performer can rescue it. Elvis turned some crap into gold, a few Motown acts did, Otis Redding made "Mary Had a Little Lamb" into a blast of soul genius. But most of the time, a bad song will be a bad song.

Likewise, a bad singer can ruin a good song. I don't mean "bad" in the sense that many people don't think of Bob Dylan as a gifted vocalist (I think he could be an exceptional interpreter at his best); I mean "bad singer" as someone who brings nothing to the table, someone who gives a milquetoast reading of the material.

I will give extra credit to a good performer who is also a good songwriter, I'll give extra credit to a good songwriter who is also a good performer. But if you suck at one or the other, stick with what you're good at.

[kick-ass-bob]

16. I wish we had "recommends" for posts

because this would get one.

:thumbsup:

[aden_nak]

5. It's the "myth" of the artist.

Musicians and especially vocalists are sold to the public as sort of mythic, larger-than-life figures. There is some notion in our culture of authenticity, where if the person who wrote the lyrics is also singing them, it's a more direct feed into their meaning. It also has to do with selling the character. People want to believe they "know" something about the singer, and if the singer writes the songs, it provides the character with an instant personality.

[Magrittes Pipe]

10. Excellent analysis.

You get a cookie.

[bobbobbins]

7. i think for one to make the big bucks, singing just isn't enough

being an valid artist is really having the ability to create something new, and while you can argue that they sing their own interpretation of something, its just not the same as someone who has really put the words/music on the paper, then puts their own emotion into their work. There are so many songwriters out there who can sing just as well as the ones who just have the songs handed to them, that it doesn't make sense to push these non-artistic copycats.

[liontamer]

12. would you argue that billie holiday wasn't a valid artist?

I think a really good performer does but their own emotion into the work, that's what separates them from the technically proficient.

I'm not saying I'm against singer-songwriters or even singer-songwriter-producers, I'm just saying that separating these skills and letting people do what they're best at is a good thing.

Then maybe all the songs on the radio would be good, and all the singers would be good as opposed to now where you sometimes have really great songs butchered by the fact that whoever wrote them can't sing and great singers singing insipid songs.

[bobbobbins]

15. essentially all performers who don't write their own music are cover bands

i'd rather have a man who can't sing, but wrote a kick ass song get up there and lay it down, than have him sell it to some souless performer any day. Im sure some performers put their own emotion into others works...but it still doesn't carry the same weight, its like a person who takes picassos ideas and paints them for him...sure, it was thought of by picasso, but its still not a picasso

[liontamer]

18. I guess that's where we differ

I don't think a good performer is souless. Sure there are many out there, but there are some truly great performers who are capable of interpreting music in a very emotional almost spiritual way.

In an ideal world they would always be teamed up with brilliant songwriters, and would in turn create brilliant music.

[mcscajun]

22. And what of the songwriters who don't sing their own music?

What would you call them? And where would they be without discerning vocalists?

One of the finest performers out there is Maura O'Connell. She doesn't write any songs at all, but has the uncanny knack of finding great songs and doing wonderful things with them. I'm sure the songwriters she works with think the world of her. :)

[bobbobbins]

24. im sure they do, but it still diminishes both of them as artists

[mcscajun]

25. Bullfeathers.

Singer-songwriters are not the be-all and end-all of musical art.

[bobbobbins]

27. not the end all be all, just the complete package

[MissMillie]

9. I can think of a lot of performers that do not write their own stuff

Yo-Yo Ma, for instance.

If you're good at what you do, then that should be celebrated.

[keopeli]

17. Defense for Critics of Vocalists - from a doctor of music and vocalist

The problem with modern vocal performance is in the advent of digital technology. Since the 1980s, it has become possible and increasingly popular to modify a singer's recorded performance in order to enhance and improve the quality of the performance. In and of itself, this is not necessarily a bad thing. The premium example of this method is Madonna, whose vocal skills are known to be limited within the professional performance world. (Her dance skills, on the other hand, are praised.)

The improving of recordings through digital manipulation has become a science, enough so that it is difficult to determine the quality of a performer's instrument and musicianship from a recording. Nowadays, even a live performance can be greatly enhanced. Interestinglly, performers who are discovered to be using recordings during a live performance (Simpson, Millie Vanillie) are still shunned, but only if you are found out, effectively eliminating the possibility for the listener to suspend their disbelief in the spontenaity of the performance.

So, in the last 25 years there has been more weight given to vocalists who demonstrate other relative talents in addition to singing, such as composing music. There is no doubt that the talents of one who demonstrates both abilities - singing and composing - are more rare, more clear, and easier to discern.

I am a professional singer. The talent of a great singer should be recognized. But, with the advent of digital technology, it is just simply more difficult to recognize such talent. And, when it becomes obvious to a trained musician that a performer's art is being manipulated digitally, the kudos for the quality of the recording should lay at the feet of the producers, engineers, editors and sound mixers than with the performer.

Need another example? Notice how Nirvana's reputation improved greatly with the publication of the "unplugged" album. The idea of an "unplugged" album is to hear the raw talent that exists.

Now, those of you who have such vitriol for music critics who refrain from issuing praise very often to vocalists who demonstrate no other talents should, in my opinion, be less effected by such criticism. If you like a song or musician, by all means, buy their album. But, I urge you not to be afraid to discover the truth about what you are hearing. Instead, give credit where credit is due. I personally enjoy some of Madonna's music, but I credit the producers and engineers with creating the wonderful sound, rather than the artist.

[fishwax]

19. Usually only the hacks and the pop creations get criticized for that

I've never heard someone rip Sarah Vaughn for not writing "tenderly" or rip Janis Joplin for not writing "Me and Bobby McGhee." Most people don't even complain about Madonna, since she at least brought something interesting to the table at one point in her career.

I usually hear the songwriter critique for the likes of the Backstreet Boys and Britney, who merely put a commercial friendly warm and fuzzy face on someone else's creations to create musical pulp.

[Beware the Beast Man]

20. Because most of them aren't singers, either.

A lot of "singers" these days are mere product. I don't shirk those with actual vocal talent, though, whether or not they write their own songs.

[dean_dem]

21. Exactly. Maybe the credit should be going to the pitch-correction software

[mitchum]

23. It's the post-Dylan syndrome

[donheld]

26. It would be nice to have the talent of both

but one or the other would be great. Barbra Streisand has a wonderful voice, but doesn't do much writing. Then you have Bob Dylan who can write like crazy, but is lacking in the vocal dept. I can appreciate each, or both

[Bridget Burke]

28. Singers should be criticized for being bad singers....

Or picking crap material, or using hackneyed arrangements. Or, as has been mentioned, being totally digitized; how can we tell whether or not they can really sing?

I've known quite a few songwriters who don't have good voices. Their personal styles will win them some fans; they may record on obscure labels & hit the folkie trail. But they can strike it rich if a more accessible artist makes one of their tunes a hit.

Emmylou Harris writes very little. Linda Ronstadt writes not at all. Both of them have done rather well.

[artv28]

29. To me a pop singer

who doesn't write or play an instrument is no different than someone who is good at karaoke. I think becoming famous has more to do with having a certain look, knowing the right people, and a lucky break.

[chenGOD]

30. I don't have a problem with vocalists.

Billie Holiday
Kirsty Hawkshaw
Sade
Ella Fitzgerald
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (look for his nephew Rahat to carry on the great tradition).


All great singers.


I have a serious problem with pop 'singers' like Jessica Simpson, Britney Spears, etc etc. They don't sing live, they have so much pitch shifting done on their vox in the studio it's more machine than human.

I give more credit to a great singer-songwriter (Jeff Buckley anyone?), but a great singer can really move people.