Stop ragging on San Francisco!!!

[UdoKier]

I am so sick of reading negative crap about San Francisco!

If I post opinions on mixed forums and put my residence as SF I inevitably get some dumbass comment from some RW'er about "why don't you just go toss your boyfriend's salad and leave the political discussion to the grownups, after all you live in SF!" (imagine drooling, snorting guffaws of laughter at his own un-original humor)

Hello! Outside the Castro district, the vast majority of San Franciscans are not gay, and using gay as an insult is so f-ing stupid anyway! Besides, every major city in the US has a significant gay community. Do people in LA, NYC or San Diego have to put up with this every time they make a comment online?

Second, stop ragging about the homeless and the dirty streets. The problems have actually gotten better, and if we weren't being choked of funding by Schwarzenführer and that POS Prop 13, the city would look a hell of a lot better.

This is still one of the greatest cities in the world, not just America, and our very civic-minded populace and LIBERAL community leaders have a lot to do with that.

Notice the electric buses on our streets that help keep our air so clean.

Notice that we are one of the first major cities in the US with a composting program and have very high recycling compliance.

Notice the excellent mass transit system.

Notice that our minimum wage is $3/ hour higher than the ridiculously low federal minimum.

Notice that our crime rates are only a FRACTION of what they are in ultra-right-wing cities like Dallas, Houston or Atlanta.

Notice the skyrocketing property values, more evidence that more and more people want to live here. (notice how the redder the area, the lower the property values?)

Notice that our public schools often outperform the suburban schools.

Notice that we have dozens of museums and art galleries, great major league sports franchises, and all kinds of great outdoor recreation, and plenty of parks and beaches that we can use for FREE.

Notice that we are still blessed with the greatest climate and natural beauty in America.




:rant: over.

I just came from living 4 years in Miami. I never hear wingnuts bitching about that place, even though the weather and traffic are much worse than here, the streets are much dirtier, and they have more than their share of homeless people. I guess it's acceptable because the place is run by right-wing Cubans. The only reason I can surmise why so many people (mostly rightwingers) bitch about San Francisco is plain old jealousy.

[deutsey]

1. I love SF

I'd live there if I could.

[ronnykmarshall]

21. I did for 14 fantastic years.

I am so lucky to have lived there.

I still consider myself a San Franciscan.

[swag]

2. SF is a great fucking city. I take every opportunity to go there.

Incredible food, music, museums, architecture, history, and a concentration of scary smart people.

I love it. You live in a wonderful city.

[Not Me]

3. I couldn't agree more

SF Rocks!

[theboss]

4. And soon all the poor people will be in Oakland....

.....which will make the place even nicer.

Oh...I kid...I kid.

Except that it's probably true.

But...I kid...I kid.

[UdoKier]

6. I'm pretty poor...

And I didn't find rentals to be all that much cheaper over there. They are starting to gentrify West Oakland, too. I guess their poor will be pushed over to Richmond...


But there are still some deals if you want to rent in the city.

But of course buying is out of the question for regular folk.

My rent is $1100/mo. Not cheap, but not bad for here...

[noiretextatique]

13. west oakland, downtown oakland, and east oakland

all over oakland...gentrification all over the place. you used to be able to find a zillion 1bd apts in oakland in the $600.00 range about six years ago...and i mean fabulous places with views and hardwoord floors. not so anymore; i think the average 1bd over her is @ $900.00. luckily we have rent control, so i don't pay anywhere near the market value for my place.
your rent is not bad for SF.

[noiretextatique]

10. most of them are already gone

there is some form of low-income housing and rent control in SF. it will be interesting to see what happens with the hunter's point/bayview area. there are some beautiful views over there that i know developers must be dying to get their hands on.
personally, i think the east bay is hands down a better place to live in terms of space and affordability, but the city has a charm all its own...no denying that.

[UdoKier]

11. Much of Oakland is actually very nice. Outsiders have a different notion

about it. I like Oakland and Berkeley a lot. Tilden Park is a hidden gem we love to visit over there.

[noiretextatique]

18. oakland is a well-kept secret

not so much anymore with the development going on downtown...i think that snagged a few former city-dwellers. the gang activity is really confined to a small area, but it still tarnishes oakland's rep.
i can live with that :7

[NuttyFluffers]

37. agreed. great place to party too.

it is a well kept secret, but there's enough scary stuff to keep the casuals and snooty bad tourists out -- and i like it that way.


so, um... yeah. oakland is really scary, run away. boo. booo! :7

[Bridget Burke]

5. So post this on the right wing (or mixed) boards.

How many DU'ers hate SF?

By the way--although Houston has its problems--it is NOT "ultra right wing." Elitist trashing of "fly over states" gets boring.

SF is very cute & I wish I could afford to live there.

[UdoKier]

8. True.

But there was a thread ragging about the homeless here recently. Houston is not as right-wing as Dallas, but isn't that mostly due to "White Flight"? is it not ringed with white, ultra-conservative suburbs?

PS I'm a native of Texas, and I'm not "trashing", but the big cities in Texas do have some serious quality-of-life issues that the local right-wing governments are NOT addressing.

For example, I've never driven through Dallas without half the freeways being under construction with huge traffic jams. Why does a city that size have no local rail system?

[crispini]

14. It does have a local rail system.

When was the last time you were in Dallas?

[UdoKier]

23. I mean for short distances.

The Dallas light rail brings people from the 'burbs into the city, but there are no subways or El-trains to get around the city, you have to take the bus.

[crispini]

25. Yeah, they're fighting about that now.

Imagine how much it's going to cost for the light rail downtown. :scared:

[Bridget Burke]

31. What a hardship! "you have to take the bus"....

Yes, the big sprawling cities are late in the transit business. They are also newer than SF & other towns.

However, I use the bus for some commuting in Houston. And I even took a bus on my visit to SF--& lived to tell the tale!

[UdoKier]

34. Problem with the bus in many cities...

There are too few buses and they are unbelievably slow and circuitous.

Nothing wrong with preferring a train or subway. They are faster, more comfortable, and more reliable.

I ride the 38 bus here in SF, and it comes every 5 minutes which is great, but the trip downtown on the 38 takes about 40 minutes on the bus. It would be half as long on a subway.

It's nice to have choices.

[Bridget Burke]

The light rail in Dallas is better than Houston's....

But we're just beginning. (What an effort--saying something nice about Dallas!)

As for the "ultra-white" suburbs:

...In Houston, for example, immigrant-led growth has expanded well beyond the inner city to areas such as the Westheimer Corridor in the outer loop where Royal Oaks is situation. In this and surrounding areas, the economy has become increasingly driven by entrepreneurs such as Niranjan "Nick" Patel, who has been developing wide-ranging properties predominately for immigrant operators of fast-food restaurant, convenience stores, motels and gas stations.

These prosaically American business out in the vastness of the Houston suburbs are operated by a wide range of entrepreneurs from such diverse countries as India, Pakistan, Vietnam, and Nigeria. Mr. Patel, a leading Royal Oaks borrower, buys and develops the properties for these newcomers, many of whom have arrived in Houston over the past 10 years. Immigrants, the Indian-born Mr. Patel suggests, occupy roughly 60% of the businesses in his over 30 suburban properties.

www.joelkotkin.com/Demographics/WSJ%20Immigrants%20Cushion%20the%20Economic%20Fall.htm

San Francisco is a lovely place. Other cities have problems that such a small, cute city does not. It's neat & complete, without much room for newcomers--especially if they don't have the do-re-mi. Still, it's a fine place for a vacation.

[UdoKier]

32. That's very interesting RE Houston.

The times they are a changin'...


I grew up until age 8 in Beaumont. I still remember that many of the businessmen downtown still wore hats - and it was the 70s! Last time I visited beaumont it seemed to be in decline.

[Bridget Burke]

36. "This is a song about living in Pasadena & commuting to Beaumont"

That's how Townes van Zandt used to introduce some of his darker tunes. Familiarity with Pasadena (Texas) & Beaumont helps one understand the depth of despair he was trying to convey.

[Blue_In_AK]

40. I went to high school in Pasadena

right across the street from the Ship Channel. Any time the wind blew from the north, we gagged on the fumes from the paper mill. It was a great learning environment.

[swag]

27. Houston has a good art museum, Rothko chapel, great opera

and classical music, lots of good stuff.

That big ridiculous statue of George HW Bush at the airport tends to make a lot of people queazy. But I'm glad you like your city.

[UdoKier]

35. I could deal with Houston...

If it weren't for the 100 degree heat and stifling humidity. Those moss-draped oaks are quite lovely - from inside an air-conditioned car.

[Momgonepostal]

38. Agreed. I don't see much SF bashing on DU

I'm in the Central Valley and love to visit SF. I can't afford to live there, though, not without MAJOR lifestyle changes. The most negativity I've seen on DU regarding SF has been cost of living related.

[Shoeempress]

7. Are they jealous much?

Yes lovely Fargo or Bismark, does give one so much more of a worldly experience. Don't take it personally, they are morans.

[Deep13]

9. but I like San Francisco

Except, you gotta be careful crossing the street or else Karl Malden might run you over.

Oh yeah, and if you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.

[Webster Green]

12. No way San Francisco is one of the greatest cities in the world...

San Francisco is the greatest city in the world!

I thought everyone knew that.:P

[Deep13]

20. Well, home is always best...

...and as a transplanted New Englander, I would rather be down by the banks of the River Charles.

[Protagoras]

15. I still think the parking situation there sucks

But the food is great :D

It's just jealousy cuz most can't afford to live there.

[UdoKier]

26. I only drive on the west side of town.

Transit is way only way to go East of Van Ness.

[crispini]

16. Why not post this in a mixed forum, then?

Jeez, you're not going to get many people HERE disagreeing with you.

Now, try being a DU'er that lives in TEXAS and see exactly how many rations of shit you get ON THIS BOARD.

[UdoKier]

24. Honestly?

I've tried, but in those places threads like this just die or attract a lot of trollish dumb comments...

[UdoKier]

28. So people dismiss your opinions just because you're from Texas?

Sorry, but I haven't seen a lot of that here.

[crispini]

29. Just generic place-ragging.

From people who have never lived here or never been here, usually. It gets old really fast.

[NYCGirl]

17. San Francisco is my home town and I'll always love it. NT

[tx_dem41]

19. SF is my favorite city in the country....

...and ranks right up there with Paris and Amsterdam in my world rankings. I'm jealous that you get to live there, year round!

[Gormy Cuss]

22. Frisco stinks.

Hey, the same kneejerk insulting IS used for NYC and L.A, and to a lesser degree for Boston and Seattle.
SF is a great place. Who cares if the wingnuts like it. They aren't jealous, they're terrified of an alternate reality where most people have a liberal mindset. They're terrified of a place where gays are just part of the fabric.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just fog-o-phobia.

[UdoKier]

30. Yep. On Monday, I took my kid to play at Golden Gate Park...

There was a huge crowd on the lawn with drummers playing, etc. There were opposite-sex and a few same-sex couples embracing. I could imagine a lot of folks would cover their kid's eyes and flee in horror. My kid didn't care, and neither do I.


And I love the fog.

[Blue_In_AK]

33. I will ALWAYS love San Francisco...

I lived in the City and the Bay area from 1969 to 1975, some of the best years of my life. I feel like I'm coming home every time I go back down there, and I can vouch for the improvements. When I lived there in '69 the Fillmore District was a pretty scary place. Last year when we were down there we walked down Haight Street from the park to a wonderful Indian restaurant on Fillmore Street, and I didn't feel the least bit nervous. The rather run-down apartment building I used to live in on the corner of Haight and Broderick has been restored and looks wonderful. And from what I noticed SF's homeless problem was no worse than many other big cities. Even little old Anchorage has a pretty severe public inebriate problem.

So, relax. A lot of us love your city. Don't let the opinions of people who don't know better get you down.

[Lannes]

Going there for a seminar in a week

Anyone know a good chinese restaurant near second street downtown? Wont have time for sightseeing unfortunatley.

[maveric]

39. I have to disagree with your weather evaluation.

I recall freezing my ass off on an August night. Fog, clouds, rain...

[NuttyFluffers]

41. heh, i love the quote from, was it rudyard kipling?

"There's only one flaw with San Francisco. You don't want to leave."

very famous and beautiful city.

[Taverner]

42. SF is awesome, and amazing but....

For a real trip into radical country, you just can't beat Berkeley.

I tend to take wingnut relatives to SF instead of Berkeley - don't want to fulfill all their generalizations.

[RandomKoolzip]

43. If you like paying 5000 a month for a cardboard refrigerator box....

Frisco is the place for you. My wife went out there in 2000 to sacope out how much it would be to live there....and we found that unless you make more than 70,000 a year, there's no fucking way you can live IN the city.

Maybe before the internet explosion, it mighta been the best city in the world, but now, just like NYC, it is being very hard on those who aren't millionaires.


I'll stick with Chicago, thank you very much.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. My only problem with SF is driving through it.

By accident of geography, it's probably the only large American city that still has a major US highway running right through its downtown core.

[hfojvt]

45. Yikes! Between Alameda and Contra Costa counties

there are over two million people. That is almost the population of Kansas, which is 2.6 million spread over 81,823 square miles. Having all of those people packed into just two counties sounds so awful to me. Big cities :scared: :thumbsdown: