I have recently discovered that I am not an atheist

[usregimechange]

I now consider myself a Christian. I discovered that what I opposed was fundamentalism, what I was skeptical of was mainstream religion, and that such an opposition and skepticism didn't extend itself to all manners of religion.

I discovered that God doesn't need to be an entity or an object that lives in a place; neither did he need to be a human play thing, a second daddy, and a system of superstitious psychological support. He could be something much more profound and immortal, an idea.

[Madrone]

1. Whoa.

That's pretty fuckin' 180.

[usregimechange]

3. If you think about it it may not be that big of a change

[Madrone]

7. I believe it is.

From AGNOSTIC to Christian - not that big of a change.

From ATHEIST to CHRISTIAN - pretty fuckin' 180!


For what it's worth - I agree with your newfound assessment of "God" - but I am not, nor could ever be christian.

[usregimechange]

8. Sorry I was an negative atheist, see below definitions

Although atheism is often contrasted with agnosticism—the view that we cannot know whether a deity exists or not and should therefore suspend belief—negative atheism is in fact compatible with agnosticism. Encarta 2000

[usregimechange]

10. I once said that if it were not for Christians I could be a Christian

Now I think, why should I let that get in my way? I find Jeffersons view on the Bible agreable:

“Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. ~Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

[Madrone]

14. That too! ;)

The comment in your subject line....


I could never be a christian because I don't BELIEVE in it. Do I believe Jesus was the son of God? Yes - just like you, me, and everyone else on the planet. Do I believe in the immaculate conception? Nope. Do I believe in the resurrection? Nope.

Pretty much renders me "not christian" - those three things alone.

I find it fascinating, though. I've studied religions off and on for a long time.

[usregimechange]

17. Not if you throw the mainstream definition of "Christianity" out the

window. I agree with everything you just said but why let the majority dictate definitions of what it means to be Christian. See I think like political frames there are also religious ones.

[Madrone]

18. Well - it's not just the mainstream definition -

It's THE definition.

I also find myself leaning towards believing in things like reincarnation, and I believe in some tenets from multiple other religions that don't square so well with christianity.

Spirtually, I'm not anything.* I'm just me!


* By "anything" I mean anything that can be defined, or fitting nicely into any one group.

[usregimechange]

20. The definition according to Paul or some other unknown author?

Where does Jesus say you have to believe in a virgin birth? Heck, two of the books of the NT don't even mention it. I still think it is not "the definition" but religious dogma.

[Madrone]

21. Jesus said:

I am the way, the truth and the life - no one can come to the father but through me.


Now - I have my OWN interpretation of that statement that I wholeheartedly agree with - but it's "way out there" in contrast to the traditionally accepted meaning. And of course - this has absolutely nothing to do with the whole virgin birth thing - so forgive my turn off into another direction.



But I believe the most important part of christianity is belief in not the virgin birth, but the resurrection.


Honestly, I think you and I are probably pretty damned close to exactly the same place in our views on this - except I couldn't (or wouldn't) ever call myself a christian.

[usregimechange]

23. Believe me it isn't easy getting use to. :-)

[usregimechange]

26. John was an idiot, he didn't know Jesus' apostles' kids'

grand children.

[usregimechange]

22. Reminds me of this quote:

"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness." ~Dalai Lama

[dorktv]

41. Early Christians believe in reincarnation...

Something about how it would take more then one life to really attain decent sinfree lives.

But then people were just like humans everywhere and said "hey I can sin now and make up for it next time!"

[Zhade]

43. There are Christians here who don't buy into the supernatural.

They have been told they are not Christians. Personally, this atheist finds that incredibly arrogant.

[merwin]

2. Yeah. I consider myself a Christian, but refuse to be involved in any

churches. I haven't found a single one that isn't corrupt and/or completely hypocritical.

[usregimechange]

6. I like UU but the closest is 75 miles away.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Found any other groups

of humans without flaws? Sometimes people set impossible standards for churches, forgetting that they're always going to be made up of other people, who will never be perfect.

[usregimechange]

15. I extend that same understanding to the writers of the Bible and

even to Jesus himself. Odd to consider myself a Christian and still think Jesus was a man. Divinity is either a magic power or it means something, imo.

[Zhade]

44. Not an "impossible standard" to ask churches to not cover up child rape.

Or to not lie and say AIDS passes through condoms. Or to not condemn gay marriage as "evil".

Yes, I'm using the Catholic Church as an example, but there are many.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Same here n/t

[Melodybe]

4. cool, I perfer to believe in something rather than nothing

but I can understand the draw to atheism.

I hope that you are satisfied and comfortable with your new choice.

Cheers from a christian buddhist jedi.

[elshiva]

5. Good! Just recently went back to my church (Episcopalian)

God is love, that's an important idea.

[Robeson]

9. I belong to the Church of Reality....

...As it states, " Our motto is, "If it's real, we believe in it." "

http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/

[usregimechange]

12. Although some have made decent arguments against it, I think

Jesus was real. I think he was damn brave (perhaps a little masochistic) to do what he did. I agree with him most of the time and than understand that he was just as much a product of his time and culture as we are of ours.

[Floogeldy]

13. Sure but what does that have anything to do with being a christian?

:shrug:

[usregimechange]

16. Almost nothing if you use mainstream Christianity as the frame

of reference.

[Floogeldy]

24. You didn't use Judaism as a frame

Christianity is not the opposite of Atheism.

[Madrone]

25. God doesn't need to be an entity or an object

The best way I've come up with to describe my feelings in this regard about a god-like figure (I really struggle with the word GOD - because of how it's been used, but it's what I mean) is that I've never been able to jive with the christian -personification- of God. I can't really say it any better than that. I thoroughly reject that personification - and without it, I can see god.

[usregimechange]

28. Are you me in disguise?

[Madrone]

46. LOL

That's why I said I was getting the feeling that we viewed this pretty close to exactly the same - even though I'm unable (unwilling) to adopt the christian moniker for myself.

[jobycom]

39. Have you heard Joseph Campbell's description?

Well, others have made the same point, too, besides Campbell.

Basically, God is a metaphor for everything that we don't know--why we are here, how we are supposed to act, all of that stuff. To him, the literal existence of God is unimportant, and some, like me, would say meaningless. IF there is a God, God would be so far outside of our understanding that the very question of existence is silly. Thus, we observe God by the questions God is supposed to answer.

I call myself an atheist when I talk about my beliefs at all, but it's just a label, like Christian, like pagan, like everything else. Most people fall into two categories--either they take religion (including atheism) literally, or they see past it and understand (even if they don't phrase it this way) that God is metaphor. Those in the latter category sometimes realize that how they see God is just a question of which metaphor they accept--again, even atheists.

Just my two cents. I try not to use labels because they mean different things to different people, as all the interpretations of what you have to believe to be a Christian demonstrate. One reason I use the atheist label is because there are so few rules attached to it that it lets me believe what I believe without having to fit into someone else's system. It allows me to detach from anyone else's definition of God and understand only my own.

I get a lot of argument when I tell people I'm an atheist who believes in God, and some don't understand even when I explain it. This is so rambling no one will understand it now, either! :-) I should go to bed.

[TrogL]

27. Welcome to true Christianity

Mainstream (and fundie) religion is for the masses who don't 'get it'.

[usregimechange]

29. I wish some lived nearby, perhaps that is why I am here on DU.

[xmas74]

35. Where are you at in MO?

I'm in Warrensburg. I'm a liberal Christian who has a problem w/ fundamentalism.

[usregimechange]

37. Joplin, SWMO, it suck but moving to Lamar

the Birthplace of Harry S. Truman and land of Ike Skelton.

[xmas74]

40. Ike's my rep.

He's not too bad. At least he answers my mail in a timely fashion. And he is very approachable in person. I don't agree w/ all of his views but he's a nice enough person.

[Bouncy Ball]

30. So you believe Jesus was the Son of God, conceived

without sin, and died for all our sins?

That's traditionally how Christians are defined. Just believing in God makes one a deist, doesn't it?

I'm TRULY not trying to be contrary, I like your definition. To me, God is love.

But I'm just wondering if you're down with the JC man and all. :D

[Maddy McCall]

32. To me, that is fundamentalism.

I know that your question wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to respond.

I believe, like Thomas Jefferson did, in the "pearls of wisdom" that Jesus spoke, but not as fact in the myths. The sermon on the mount should be read by every person who calls himself a Christian.

I don't think that one has to believe in all of the biblical mythology to be a christian...but to try to live by the words of wisdom that are ascribed to Jesus.

Read my post below. It's where I landed after being raised Southern Baptist.

:hi:

[usregimechange]

33. Jesus never said we must believe in the virgin birth to be

Christians. Heck, it isn't even mentioned in two of the four main NT books. That came later as did a whole lot else that today we view, uncriticaly, as "Christian." It is modern Christian dogma, imo.

[Maddy McCall]

31. I've been going through the same process, too.

I went from being raised in a Southern Baptist household and being forced to attend church every time the doors opened to rebelling against any form of Christianity.

Now, in my old age (I'm 39) I've come to terms with my beliefs, and I have let go of both the hate of the denomination and my rebellion to it. I am coming to terms with my own concepts of my beliefs...I am nondenominational, and I wouldn't really term myself a Christian. I have absorbed many facets of many religions and demonstrate my beliefs by the way I live my life.

I'm raising my son to:

1) Be kind to others
2) Treat your own body and mind with dignity
3) Raise your children the best that you can--protect them

Those are my three commandments. I live by these and am instilling them in my son.

I certainly understand from where you are coming. I went from one extreme to the other--from Southern Baptist to Atheist. Now I'd say that I'm agnostic and that I am not capable of knowing all the hows and whys. I can only live the best I can while I am here, and raise my son to do the same. And I like the happy place I found between the two extremes.

Hugs to you on the journey you have taken. YOUR spirtuality is YOUR business and no one else's. Never let someone guilt you because you don't live by the tenets to which they subscribe.

[usregimechange]

34. Thank you and you know, I bet you would fit within my description

of Christian, although the masses would surely do what they have always done and belittle us as un-Christian. Didn't the same sort happen to Jesus? We will never learn.

[personman]

36. I'm sorta Christian...kinda...maybe.

Haven't been to Church in many years, in some ways I'm growing away from it, probably because of what some people who call themselves Christians do and say. I'm not an atheist, but I think the best proof of no god is what he lets people say in his name. I'm not well versed in the bible, but some of the stories I've heard seem nonsensical to me (Jobe). South Park made a pretty good point with that, why would God basically destroy one of his most faithful believers to prove a point to the devil of all people(or things or whatever the hell he is)? As for the 10 Commandments, George Carlin had some really good points about that.

One idea that erks me about Christianity I've pondered recently, is Christianity sends the message that the only reason to not be an asshole is so you'll be rewarded in the afterlife, but if the only reason you're not an asshole is so you'll be rewarded in the afterlife, then you wont be rewarded. If you're incapable of being a decent person without the threat of vengeance from an all powerful being, how moral are you really?

So I basically just believe in God and trying to be a good person and I draw the line there, for now. Maybe I'll decide to better educate myself about this at some point.

[progmom]

38. hey cool!

:hi:

sounds like you have been doing a lot of thinking!

i'm a christian and my beliefs sound similar to yours.

[Zhade]

42. Good luck, most Christians think god MUST be an entity.

They also won't accept self-described Christians who don't believe in the mythological supernatural tales.

That lack of acceptance extends to DU, by the way. I've seen it myself.

[Skittles]

45. yeah, whatever

just don't show up on my doorstep to try to explain it to me; thanks!

[Misunderestimator]

47. Hear Hear

:thumbsup: :rofl: