so my dog has caught his 5th groundhog in the last 2 days....

[banjosareunderrated]

and he's not happy with them getting into his (joey's) yard. He catches them and shakes them in his mouth until their backs are broken and then he brings them to my back door. Since it began, I've been herding my boxer dog into the house and then I put the groundhogs out of their misery and dispose of them but I'm wondering if I should let my dog kill them? In other words, am I mentally castrating my dog by not letting him kill his catch? The end result would be the same, I just don't want my boy feeling like he isn't doing his job.

Could any dog experts offer advice? Should I let him follow his instincts or am I doing the right thing by not letting him finish the critters off? In all other ways of caring for a dog, I like to think that i'm aces, but this is new to me.

thx in advance.

[jobycom]

1. I watched my dogs kill a squirrel the other day

Watched the poor little guy, who lived in a tree outside my office window, twitch until he stopped moving. I had to leave, and went back later to bury him--not a trace. Nothing, no fur, no bones. The whole carcass was gone. I guess a bird could have carried it off, but I think my dogs devoured the whole thing. It's a small suburban yard with a six foot fence, and he was definitely dead.

So I think I'd see what your dog did with the poor little bastards. Just seems natural, somehow. (strong statement from a tender-hearted vegetarian, eh?)

[banjosareunderrated]

3. I appreciate that very much...joey is the kindest 135lb sweetheart you'd

ever meet. But he's getting so territorial in his 4th year that I just don't know what's cool and what's not. This is my first foray into suburban life and I've seen him, literally, show his belly to total strangers but when it comes to groundhogs and rabbits, he gets sooooo angry.

I realize that he's bringing them to me as a gift, but, at the same time, I don't want him thinking that my neighbours' cats are trophies that he can go after with the same aplomb as groundhogs.

I guess I should let him do his thing and not correct him for following his instincts. I just don't want a dog that goes after every animal that gets in his yard. He needs more work from me, I guess.

[jobycom]

7. If you can find a way to stop him, do so

I was assuming you'd tried that, already.

What surprises me is the groundhogs. The squirrels since this incident don't let the dogs get near. I wonder why the groundhogs do?

My dogs get along fine with my cats, and only chase other cats. They only kill the possums, and occasionally the squirrels. Both usually stay away. I think there's some animal protocol going on. My dogs don't hunt these animals, and I've watched them chase possums and squirrels with no attempt to catch them. I think there are times when the squirrels violate some rule I don't know about, and so the dogs kill them instead of playing with them. The squirrel they killed recently had been chewing on my hammock, and I threw a rock at him to get him to stop. Maybe ten minutes later the dogs killed it. I don't know if my rock had anything to do with it.

What I'm saying is that there's probably a reason he's doing this other than primal instinct. Dogs don't usually kill for fun. Maybe letting your dog finish what he starts will complete some cycle, either warning the groundhogs to not do whatever they are doing, or maybe showing your dog what killing is, which might cause him to back off. I wonder, too, if you are accepting the gifts by killing the groundhogs. In other words, it's not natural for your dog to kill for the fun of it, so he's getting some message from something.

[noonwitch]

14. My dog will chase stray cats, but loves her indoor kitty, too.

She won't kill squirrels or possums, although she hates the possums as much as I do (ugly critters) and will bark at them.

My neighbor has an american bulldog, who will kill anything that gets in her yard. The owner told me he got hold of a possum and left an absolute mess.

[BikeWriter]

8. Yes, you can train him to be selective. Dogs are not stupid...

but it takes training and vigilance.

[BikeWriter]

2. What did the groundhogs ever do to you? Do they deserve...

a slow and painful death? If so, I recommend a meatgrinder or food processor. If not, stop your dog from killing them!

[banjosareunderrated]

4. how? Should I not let him out in his own yard?

I like groundhogs, but should I shoot my dog so he can't kill anymore groundhogs? I live on 9 mile in detroit, not exactly the wildnerness. Is it my fault that my puke neighbour harbours rodents that come into my yard to eat my plants?

How does my ownership of a dog in the suburbs translate into me wanting groundhogs dead?

[BikeWriter]

6. Hmm, I've broken Chows of killing chickens and ducks...

That old bull shit about "Once they've tasted blood" is bullshit! If you don't want the groundhogs there, though, he's doing good.

[jobycom]

Ah, they're eating plants?

Have you tried to stop the groundhogs from eating plants? That could explain it--you're dog is trying to help. Like me throwing a rock to get the squirrel off my hammock. Dogs have a pack mentality and a pecking order, and since you are the head of the pack, the pack will follow your lead.

I don't know how to stop it. But I think you killing the groundhogs is encouraging your dog to chase them.

I'm just guessing. Could be something else.

[banjosareunderrated]

10. I always put him inside when I take care of them so he doesn't see me

I don't have the heart to leave these poor things. He's a big dog so they're not doing real well when he drops them.

[jobycom]

16. The reason I say leave is because I think it will make him stop doing it

Maybe I wasn't clear on that. My point is dogs don't kill for fun, they have some reason. Right now yours thinks he is helping you, and by finishing the animal, I think you are accepting your dog's help. I think if you left them alone, your dog would stop.

I have a chow and two half chows who used to kill birds and squirrels all the time. They stopped after a couple of months, though, and usually will just lay down and watch the squirrels or the birds, even when they are eating the dogs' food. They've killed a couple of opossums (one I can still lose my lunch over if I think about it), and this one squirrel I had thrown a rock at, but nothing else. They chase the squirrels and the birds, but I've watched them hold up before catching them. They're just playing. The killing was something different.

So I think if you leave the groundhogs to the dog, he will quit doing it.

I saw Heidi's post--I'm the type to try to save junebugs from my cats, too, and I tried to save the squirrel, but they made quick work of it.

[hfojvt]

23. I am surprised at that

I thought they would kill any non-dog or non-cat that they caught (I swear I have had more than one dog who seemed to treat cats like just another dog.) My dogs have all given up on chasing birds, which they cannot catch.

I have seen some squirrels who seem to be taunting my beagle, who is obsessed with them. Maybe that is more of a game than I thought. My first thought was that the squirrel was psychotic.

I have found dead squirrels and large dead birds in my yard, but I do not know how they got there. My dogs are too small or too slow to go messing with woodchucks. Fortunately, I don't think they could get in the yard.

[Shell Beau]

12. I agree they should not have to suffer. But

I do believe it is in their nature and instinctive to kill. They may not do it for fun, but it is built in their brains to chase and catch certain animals. The dog is not doing anything that every other animal doesn't do. It is sad when we see it before our own eyes. I can't hardly watch the Discovery shows. I don't want the lion to starve to death, but I don't want the buffalo to die either. Some dogs are more instinctive than others. I have a chow mix that catches any bird or squirrel or possum that he can catch in the backyard. My other 2 dogs don't try to catch anything!:shrug:

[BikeWriter]

17. As I said, I have broken Chows from killing, but it takes vigilance...

It depends whether the ground hogs are pests, or simply innocent intruders who don't deserve killing.

[Shell Beau]

18. Well I have been diligent with him, but I think it is instinctual.

I have talked to my vet and he told me sometimes there is nothing you can do. He is an animal and animals do that. I am going with what my vet says because I respect him greatly and he has dealt with animals for over 40 years. He knows what he is talking about. Not that you don't. But although we have domesticated dogs, some things just don't change for some of them. I never want any animal to suffer for any reason. Unfortunately it happens everyday, you know the circle of life thing!!

[BikeWriter]

20. Fine, but I have trained many Chows not to kill...

I will never accept that an intelligent animal's behaviour can't be altered through proper training. Believe it or don't...
:shrug:

[Shell Beau]

21. Okay!

But why should I alter something that is perfectly natural for my dog? Of course I don't like to see animals suffer (EVER). It breaks my heart. I have actually cried when I saw a dead baby bird that he killed. But how far do you go when altering your dog's behavior to fit your needs?

On edit, I am not trying to be argumentative. I really am just inquiring.

[BikeWriter]

22. Keyword: "your" I expect "my" animals to conform to my wants...

..and needs, whether it's normal or natural for them, or not. I've had some superbly trained animals, too. :)

[Shell Beau]

25. Well, animals have gotten the hint

around my house. They can sense that there is a dangerous "predator" (for lack of a better word), and they haven't been coming around too much anymore. Birds are extra cautious around my house. It kinda sucks b/c I love watching the birds. My dog loves other dogs, but not cats or rodents or birds. He is a weird dog now that I think of it!

[friesianrider]

5. If your dog catches a groundhog, do all you can to...

...minimize the groundhog's suffering. It does nothing to your dog to not let them experience the actual "kill", trust me. It's the dog's nature to chase/catch them, but you should discourage it any way you can and if he does catch a groundhog, put the groundhog out of their suffering as quickly as possible. No creature deserves to suffer.

Good Luck :)

[banjosareunderrated]

11. thanks, that's what I'm wondering--do dogs need that or not

thanks, that makes me feel better. It's so strange, because with squirells, bunnies, and birds he's fine. He'll sleep on his back while they all run around. With ghogs though, he gets mad. I will discourage it from now on now that I know that he won't get an esteem problem.

I do put them out of their misery instantly and painlessly. I like groundhogs!

[Zomby Woof]

9. It's going to be a long winter!

[Heidi]

13. He's just doing his job.

Just like my cat, your dog is doing what he thinks is his job, his way of earning his keep and showing off for you.

_Your_ job may be different than mine, but I think my job is to have regard for the lives of all sentient beings, and for me that means rescuing moles, mice, frogs, birds and even bugs when I discover the situation, and setting them free to live out their lives. You're not mentally castrating your dog if you give him lots of love and attention _after_ and _as_ your "rescuing" his cat of the day.

[RedCloud]

15. Dear Completely Useless By September (CUBS!)

You should know this has happened and will continue to happen over and over until you fix the groundhog situation.

Either the day keeps repeating itself or you have an infinite supply of groundhogs.

[LynneSin]

19. Better yet - why not make dinner out of them

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/martin/newsletters/newsarticles/wildrecipes/wgrwoch2.htm

WOODCHUCK (GROUNDHOG) STEW


1 woodchuck
2 onions, sliced
1/2 cup celery, sliced
Flour
Vinegar and water
Salt and pepper
Cloves

Clean woodchuck; remove glands; cut into serving pieces. Soak overnight in a solution of equal parts of water and vinegar with addition of one sliced onion and a little salt. Drain, wash, and wipe. Parboil 20 minutes, drain, and cover with fresh boiling water. Add one sliced onion, celery, a few cloves, and salt and pepper to taste. Cook until tender; thicken gravy with flour.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/martin/newsletters/newsarticles/wildrecipes/list.html

[RobinA]

24. Our Dog and Groundhogs

Our dog, part shepherd part something primitive, loves to get groundhogs, however they don't survive the first toss. She does bring them back, but they are plenty dead. Once she got three babies in one fell swope. They didn't run, they froze and she dispatched them all in a hideous massacre I'm glad I missed.

When we first got her she got a chicken on the first day, sat on the lawn and munched away on it. I were not happy about this at all and somehow she got the message within about a month that you don't mess with the pets. She hasn't gotten a bird since, although she will run through them and watch them scatter. I have no worry about her getting a cat. Cats around here don't get gotten by mere dogs.