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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 10:57 PM
Original message
Need Divorce advice - very long drama here ;)
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 11:11 PM by friesianrider
Okay here's the deal. My Mom is a 48-year-old highly educated, intelligent, and Iby most people's standards is a very physically beautiful woman. She's also incredibly selfless and compassionate. She's married to her second husband, who is a certifiable nasty, lazy, inconsiderate, VERY SELFISH jackass.

He is 61 years old, retired. He is completely and totally lazy. He literally does NOTHING 95% of the time. He is emotionally abusive to my mother, and regularly insults the few things she buys for herself, but especially me. He loathes me, and usually complains about me at least twice a day. He has two sons, one 37 and one 34, who haven't intheir life held a job longer than a year. They both have lived with us within the last few years because once, one of them was evicted from their apartment. The other was because he made a bet with a bookie and was hiding from the mafia (I kid you not). He is emotionally abusive to me and my Mom and 90% of the burden of paying the bills and caring for our home falls onto my mother's shoulders. I (not his child) am in college full-time and he does not support me either financially ot otherwise in any capacity whatsoever (Mom pays for all my expenses, food, clothes, and college costs ENTIRELY on her own). The mortgage is $2,000 a month, and she and him split that. ALL other bills she pays, including all costs for my full-time tuition as well as home improvements/maintanence and household bills. She also does 99% of all of the housework. He regularly spends 1-3 days a week at the home of a woman friend of his. I have no proof of infidelity but it is a possibility and a big insult to their marriage none the less - particularly because so much must be done around here to maintain the house and property - but he literaly doesn't care at all about this home. He loves to "flea market" and brings home all kinds of disgusting, useless crap like old air conditioners, old furniture, old tools...and just leaves them lay around the house and property until I or my mom moves them.

When he retired a few years ago, it was approximately $150 for survivor's benefits for my mom if something happened to him - he refused to pay it. He has spent his entire $200,000 pension already, has gotten himself into between $25,000 and $30,000 in personal CC debt, and when it came to pay almost $3,000 in taxes this year, my mom solely paid for that as well. He is horrible with money, but now wants my mother to pay for the refinancing of the farm so he can take out the $80,000 or so in equity and build himself a "workshop" (interesting, considering he rarely does anything but watch TV). We bought the farm we're living on now 2 years ago. My Momand I have single-handedly made tens of thousands of dollars of improvements to the property. We also own a shore house in New Jersey. The home we live in now (the farm - our primary residence) is worth more than our shore house, but it is the farm where we keep my horses. We do not care about the shore house in any aspect whatsoever, but desperately want to keep the farm if it is in any way possible - particularly because of the horses. Honestly I am not sure my Mom would go through with a divorce if she knew it was probable she would lose the farm. I realize nothing in divorce is guaranteed, but he knows the farm is what we care about most and although he has no interest whatsoever in the farm (he would want the shore house much more anyway), he would go after it only because he would know we would want it at all costs.

I honestly have no idea what she ever saw in him, but she is considering leaving him. Since she is still working and makes close to $90,000 a year, will she likely have to pay spousal support to HIM? Do judges ever take into considerating the past behavior of a spouse, even if infidelity can't be proven?

Thanks for reading all this and anyone's ideas on this is much appreciated.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Isn't spousal support rare these days
That was my understanding
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. she old enough to retrieve balls if she wants to
ups talking about my dog.

Stay out of it. If whatever it is makes her happy, live with it if it does not harm you.
the money is not the issue. Her happiness is,
and that is the choice she will have to
distinguish in her life.




"By all means marry. If you get a good wife you will become happy, and if you get a bad one you will become a philosopher."
Socrates

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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. t does harm me...incredibly
He has threatened physical violence to me (though never followed through) and is also extremely emotionally abusive to me. It's unhealthy for all of us, and she is not happy.

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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. She needs to talk to a lawyer
She's got far too much at stake in property etc. to just guess on this. Different states have different laws in regards to divorce, spousal support, community property, etc. Even if she's only considering it, she should consult a lawyer in order to get a clear idea of what to expect.

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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. If his infidelity can be proven, that usually cancels out
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 11:12 PM by Lex
.
him getting monthly support (alimony) from her.

Distribution of marital assets are dependent on each state's laws.

Edited to add: If she's thinking of leaving him, she should consult with an attorney--at least an initial consult--to get a clear understanding of what might happen in splitting up the assets.



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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Infidelity doesn't mean much
in my state.

It's pretty much ignored and the property is just divied up.

We don't have alimony though.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. In my state, we still have alimony, but infidelity or abuse can disqualify
a spouse who would otherwise qualify.

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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. We're in PA...
I'm not sure if we still have alimony or not...
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That's why she needs at least an initial consultation with a
domestic attorney.

She's got to gather some facts first before she can make a truly informed decision about everything.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Not in Virginia. Infidelity has little if any bearing on spousal support
Longevity, contribution to the marriage, and relative income do. :sarcasm:But then again, Lex, we're so liberal up here in the Commonwealth of Virginia, we just can't be bothered with those sorts of private details
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Can your mom spell A-T-T-O-R-N-E-Y?
Good. I'm sure she has friends who have used one and, incidentally, they are in the phone book.

She is smart enough to call one if she needs to.

But forget that. What's up with you?

B-)
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Each state has different laws
so you need to talk to a lawyer, not an internet site. Actually your mother needs to talk to the lawyer.

I live in a community poperty state, so divorce is pretty much just splitting the property unless there is clearly "separate property." However, the two can pretty much make any deal they both agree with.

About your step-dad, it's hard to say anything. You paint a truly awful picture of him. Obviously you don't like him at all. Withouit hearing his side of the story, it's hard to have anything constructive to say.

Hope all works out well for you and your whole family.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. You need to deal with your mother.
The lawyer advice above is outstanding and foundational. Get her to make an appointment (with the best you can find) and go with her. You may be happy about the outcome. Plus it puts her on the road for real.

Second sit her down and tell her what this has/is doing to you. Normally, I'd agree with the "stay out of it" above but you are impacted as a resident and property owner. It's not going to kill her (god, I hope not) to hear from you. She's not a victim, she's making active choices. May be just what she needs.

good luck
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. She's afraid to confront him...on much...
Because any little suggestion or anything to him like (um, honey, do you, um, think, um, maybe, you could cut the grass tomorrow?) ends up in a "you need to give me more money this month, I only have $20 in the bank. And tell your kid to get a job, id I knew college was this easy I'd have gone. She never does anything tell her to do it" and several other forms of insults and put-downs. So she just does it herself and doesn't bother with him at all.

I've tried to encourage her, but I can understand not wanting to be chewed out everytime you ask your spouse the slightest thing.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That's her problem. She needs to be told how you feel about it.
You could also find a great counselor, somebody with a brain and not the Dr. Phill bullshit or the pastoral type who say save the marriage at any cost. Make her go. If she won't listen to you and/or seek help, good luck.
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micrometer_50 Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why do you let Mom do 99% : couldn't you do 5%?
or 10% ?
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. On edit...
Believe me, I do a great deal. I take care of the majority of the household chores, etc and even help our financially (although I am not working, I help my Mom out with my Savings). Since chore-wise it is only my Mom and I, I do do my fair share. I'd say 99% of the work is done between my Mom and I - meaning he does about 1%
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. How long have they been married?...
First, she should seek marriage counseling. It seems she's been torn apart by you and the man's adult children. She needs you to love her and listen to her when she wants to talk about her private married life, but it is not up to you to give her advise.

You sound very young and that is way too much emotional stress on you. Just listen to her and advise her to get professional help. Your job is to stay in college, prepare yourself for a better financial future. If she gets a divorce based on your bad advise, she will hold it against you. She's not 30. It's difficult to find another mate the older women get, and when previous marriages have also failed.

It would be smart of her to talk things over with him and decide on dividing property on paper with just a notary public. A lawyer will want a big chunk of the family's wealth. Good Luck to your Mom. You're a good son.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. 15 years.
And, he would NEVER, EVER, EVER give her anything without a fight if she said she wanted a divorce. Ever. They can never "talk" out anything because he's totally beligerrant and arrogant, and never - and I do mean never - accepts responsibility for anything he does.

BTW, I'm her daughter, not son :)
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. is it a community property state? is there a prenup?
She's entitled to keep her separate property that was hers alone when she came into the marriage. But I beleive that income from separate property earned during the marriage is community property. Income earned during the marriage is community property.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. what's your mother's phone number
and what is she doing this weekend, say Saturday night?

:-)

she should get legal help
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. you've gotten great advice re: legal help. Hope your mom avails herself
of the services of a good lawyer.

As for you, and how this effects you, stand up for yourself with the jerk. If he threatens violence to you, call the police and report it. If he threatens your mom, call the police and report it. Needless to say, if he does any violence, call the police and report it.

But it is up to your mom to make this move. If you are so unhappy in the situation, it might be time to move yourself. You cannot control this situation. It's on your mom to do what is right for herself.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. there are ways...
to make others nuts. Examples include:

Turn on the water heater for you and your Mom to shower, then turn it off for the rest of the day.

Change the locks while he's at the lady friend's house.

Buy takeout for you and Mom, don't feed the other jerks, and never buy gorceries. Starve them out.

Invite your frineds over for a loud get togehter. Have them stay late.

Tell the mob where this loser can be found.

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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I LIKE the way your mind works...
Only thing is he's damn near deaf (you can hear his always-on TV from OUTSIDE), and rarely showers. Yes, I kid you not, the man truly has few, if any redeeming qualities.

And, in the 15 years I've known him, he has busted through about 5 doors. One was a screen door at our old house. It was locked to keep the kitties from bopping it open. Rather than walk his fat lazy ass the 20 feet to the side door (which was open) he literally busted the door down. Which my mother then has to pay to replace and install.
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. The guy is a leech
Tell your mom to dump him like a hot rock if she ever asks for your opinion. But before she does so make sure she has a game plan with a lawyer.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Absolutely a leech.
I've tried telling her, but she's begun making excuses for him too. She's only recently started testing the waters with a lawyer. I think she truly enjoys the treatment she gets from him. Some women are like that I think.
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I don't know about that
Some women tend to attract abusive guys usually as a result of them being abused as a child. All the women I know like to be treated with respect.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. She was not abused...
Edited on Tue Jun-21-05 02:05 AM by friesianrider
But her father cheated on her mother (these are my grandparents) and got a divorce when my mother was a young girl. She admits to constantly only wanting her father's approval, so I suspect she may put up with this BS from a man because she wants the man's approval. But I'm no psych major or anything...just a guess.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. She may feel as though she doesn't deserve any better treatment
than what she's getting from him. A lawyer and/or marriage counselor sound like good ideas. I'd go for the lawyer first, myself...if I'd married that bastard in the first place. What a mess...

Good luck to you. Please let us know how this turns out, once you're safely away from it!

:hi:
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yes, a very big mess.
But everyone here has given me good advice, and I thank you all for that. We'll get through it somehow, we always end up okay :)

Thanks for the support! :)
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. kill him with kindness.
how's his cholesteral?
does your mom know how to cook everything alfredo...?
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deebo550 Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. my first post =)
Edited on Wed Jun-22-05 09:50 AM by deebo550
I am her boyfriend (friesianrider's) and I can vouch for everything she has said so far. There is just too much more to add in this thread that I don't know where to start.

BTW I'm sure his cholesterol is through the roof being as he does nothing but eat sleep and sometimes ride a lawn mower. Oh and he is probably 250 pounds at least.

*edit- he will only make food for himself and if she wants something to eat it has to be what he made or he will get mad if she doesn't eat it. He also gets mad if she eats without him.

Also he has got in my face and told me "we can take it outside". You almost feel sorry for a 60 year old man trying to fight a 22 year old.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. You should have taken him up on it and kicked his ass.
Seriously, if he is retired, I don't think he qualifies for spousal support, but your gf needs to get a lawyer for her mom and get that SOB out of there.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Welcome to DU!
Don't let the guy bait you, deebo550. It won't come to any good end. :hi:
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
33. Don't get involved in someone else's relationship
ESPECIALLY that of your parents. It will only end with trouble for you.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
36. A lot is going to depend on how long they have been married.
Edited on Wed Jun-22-05 10:06 AM by Redstone
It will have a bearing on how the stuff gets split up.

You want my opinion? She should find the best lawyer she can, get it done and over with, take whatever lumps she has to, and go on from there.

Stuff can be replaced, but a life can't. At 48, she's WAY too young to waste time living like that. When I got divorced, the only stuff I kept was:
1) My musical instruments.
2) My books.
3) My woodworking tools.
4) A rolltop desk.
5) Two dining-room chairs.
6) My clothes and my car.
7) My cameras.

She got all the money, and I got all the debts, and I didn't care. I was free. When I moved, I took the back seat out of my car and used it for a couch, and slept on the floor (Not a mattress on the floor; I mean on the floor) for a couple of months.

Couldn't have been happier. And things just kept getting better from then on, and I'm doing great these days.

(Just in case she needs a case history to strengthen her resolve.)

Good luck to her.

Redstone
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
37. She needs to talk to a good divorce lawyer...
Even if she's just considering divorce. There may be financial ducks to get in a row before she makes a move.

And she might benefit from a counselor to ensure she's making the right decision--whatever it is.
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