Flaming Vs. Disagreement

[Left Is Write]

Some people don't think there's a difference.

Certainly, there is a fair amount of actual flame-throwing that goes on around here, but on every bulletin board I have ever frequented there are people who think disagreement of any kind is "flaming."

Person A: I just loooooooooooooove the Backstreet Boys!

Person B: I don't care for the Backstreet Boys myself. I think their sound is studio-manufactured and they have little actual talent.

Person A: Why are you flaming me??

Clearly, Person A is someone who does not understand the difference between a disagreement and a flame.

For many years, I frequented a particular debate forum on a parenting website. Most of the debates were interesting, if not earth-shattering. Inevitably, though, would come the flamewars that were often started because someone mistakenly believed they were being flamed and so began flaming others. Or when people would throw out red herrings or strawman arguments and, when called on it, would play the "victim of flaming" card.

There were often complaints of oldsters vs. newbies as well; newbies believed oldsters could get away with more "crap" while newbies were ridiculed and flamed. This phenomenon, as we all know here, was not unique to that debate forum on that parenting site.

So...why do people flame? And why do observers seem to enjoy it so? (I'm not into flaming myself, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that I had occasionally watched a flame war with a measure of interest.)

Are disagreements/debates/differing points of view not interesting enough on their own? What is the attraction of the flames?

[Parche]

1. flaming vs disagreement

I dont care for this post myself..I think it is manufactured
and shows little talent.........................hahahahha

[Left Is Write]

7. Okay.

I never said I was talented.

What are your thoughts on the subject matter?

[Parche]

23. flame

I think some people dont read, or only read want they want in certain
parts, and miss a lot of what the person is saying.
For example, I posted on another website, not a right wing or a
left wing, and I was hammered for posting the truth about
GW Bush, but they were the facts, and the other posters
didnt read the whole thing, or they were too dumb to
know the truth, either way.
Some people just like to tease, and screw around with others
on the web

[Left Is Write]

26. True - some people read things the poster didn't actually say.

Instead of asking for clarification, they go on the offensive.

[aeolian]

2. I've been on boards that actively encouraged flaming.

*sigh*

...freakhole was great in its prime...

*gets all fucking misty-eyed*

[Kraklen]

3. I disagree.

You rotten excuse for a human being.

[sui generis]

4. cannibals? assholes? who knows

there are some people who don't read past the first sentence, who just lurk looking for a fight.

And we're all supposedly mostly on the same side - that's the sad part.

Actually I suspect there is so much frustration at having no voice elsewhere that people overcompensate here.

The ones that really grill my buns are the ones who do it "on behalf" of some other party.

I don't have a lot of patience for permanently outraged loons, regardless of their affiliation. There are better, and more productive things to be addicted to than your adrenal glands.

[sui generis]

6. whatever you do, DO NOT USE THE C WORD

or you'll get the thread locked.

(chicken)

[sui generis]

8. what's going on with the chicken thing?

[sui generis]

10. what rock have you been hiding under?

jeez, some people just are too stoepid to keep up with every little thing happening in the lounge

[sui generis]

11. don't call me stoepid

jerk

[sui generis]

12. buttwipe

and your little chicken too!!!!

[sui generis]

14. this thread bores me

I'm leaving.

[tigereye]

27. I am enjoying

your self argument! ;)

[aeolian]

13. Off your meds, again? Severe schizophrenia can be difficult,

but it IS treatable!

:P

[sui generis]

15. prepare to die!

seriously what happened with the chicken stuff? pm me to spare this thread.

[aeolian]

16. I wish I knew,

but I got a thread locked for mocking it. :hide:

[Left Is Write]

9. I agree with you, but it's not unique to this site or political sites

in general. It seems to happen on most public bulletin boards.

[Ikonoklast]

17. It is far easier to insult, deride, etc.

Than it is to engage someone with whom you have a difference of opinion (viewpoint, angle) in intellectual discourse. "All Republicans are bad." That statement would start a skirmish among those that seek unilateralism in debate, on either side.

[Left Is Write]

19. I suppose that's true, but I often enjoy a good chewy discussion

with someone who has an opposing viewpoint. Insults and attacks take the fun out of it.

I remember quite a while back I had an interesting conversation with mike_c. We were coming from very different mindsets, but the conversation was respectful on both sides. I wound up enjoying the discourse. It's good to know why people hold the opinions they do.

[sui generis]

18. eh - gotta take some chaff with the wheat

it helps make us perfect angels stand out O8).

I have never flamed anyone myself, within the past 24 hours.

seriously, BUT, I hate leaving bad blood laying around. I'd rather kiss and make up than nurse a grudge - too much energy the other way.

Sorry I hijacked your thread. I think it was performance art -- the title: flaming is masturbatory.

And what the heck with the chikkins? Some days the lounge is so weird even I don't get it.

[progmom]

5. I'm not sure I have anything to add here.

You said it all so well. :thumbsup:

[In_The_Wind]

20. discussions are great

I believe that disagreements can lead to an exchange of ideas where both may benefit but flaming rarely settles anything because everyone gets burned a little when they're not willing to work things out.

[Lavender Brown]

21. I don't know

I don't think disagreement is flaming at all. But sometimes people who disagree with you are completely unwilling to discuss the point of disagreement. They insist that their opinion is fact and shut down the discussion, because you can't discuss anything with a brick wall. Those are the only types of posters that I can't deal with. I've disagreed with a quite a few people on DU and remained friends with them.

[SOteric]

22. From my personal observation, for every 'victim' claiming

flamewars where simple disagreement is at play, there are 3 or 4 posters (on this and many other fora) who are unable to simply disagree without equating that which they do not like to all that is evil, bad and wrong in the world.

It's fine with me if one doesn't like Barry Manilow, I don't care much for him myself. But claiming that he is the incarnation of evil and single-handedly responsible for the decay of real tastes in North America and anyone who likes him probably voted for Bush is a bridge or three too far.

I wish I could tell you that these sorts of allegations aren't made, but I know they all too often are. One cannot admire a film Mel Gibson made without being treated to a ranting screed (filled with personal insults) on Mel Gibson's religion and politics and how finding some lewd enjoyment of his nekkid backside in "Bird on a Wire" automatically means you must be a Freeper. Like my hormones actually screen for politics before they activate.

What I don't see on DU nearly as often is the kind of altercation you describe. Disagreeing in more than fine. Most of us recognise the difference between a personal insult or dubious logical progressions and diversity. Your mileage may vary.

[kmla]

24. Well, gosh. I thought Barry Manilow WAS evil.

Maybe even Beelzebub. Now I'm not sure.

:dilemma:

(This post is really just a reason to use the dilemna smilie.)

[distantearlywarning]

25. Disagreement vs. Flame

Disagreement: I don't care for the Backstreet Boys myself. I think their sound is studio-manufactured and they have little actual talent.

Flame: LOL! This is the stupidest post I've ever seen. :crazy: Anybody who likes the Backstreet Boys is a classist and an idiot. Those people are clearly in need of socialization and should be forced to listen to the music the rest of us listen to.

One's personal and mean and the other isn't.

If we could keep it to disagreement in these threads, there would be far less problems, IMO. And something else I've noticed in my time on the internets is that there are usually one or two assholes who spoil it for everyone - they post personal attacks (sometimes subtly couched as "disagreement"), which irritates people, who then fight back in a personal way, which irritates more people and then you have a flame war. If the assholes could just be stepped on in the beginning, you would avoid a lot of problems. Unfortunately, I've also noticed that these shit-stirrers are usually very good at what they do, and very manipulative, and are often able to weasel their way out of being confronted with their behavior.