Does this make me sound racist?

[redqueen]

The reason I want to homeschool my child is because it is the worst school in the district, she was choked in her kindergarten classroom (after which the teacher treated ME like a bad person for asking about the incident and rolled her eyes at me and walked away in the middle of a conversation), and, because of the racial makeup of the school, she is often teased for being white.

--------

Does this paragraph make anyone else think I'm a racist?

[Goldmund]

1. Um... no.

:shrug:

[bertha katzenengel]

2. No.

But if you're interested in a suggestion: if it were me, I'd delete "because of the racial makeup of the school."

Good luck. :hi:

[Goldmund]

5. I agree

She's not being teased BECAUSE of the racial makeup; she's being teased because the kids are racist assholes. The racial makeup places her in a minority, which then makes her a target as opposed to somebody else -- but that's not the reason she's being teased.

[redqueen]

8. Well, it is a contributing factor...

if she weren't in the minority, the racist assholes wouldn't be quite so quick to insult her for being white.

[Goldmund]

27. They would instead...

...insult somebody else for being white, or in some other minority.

If you're saying that she's being teased because of the school's racial makeup, then that (if you look at it in terms of dry logic) implies that any school with similar racial makeup would result in similar kinds of insults; it also implies that you would fix the insults by "fixing" the racial makeup. Neither is the case.

[Left Is Write]

9. I agree with you.

But redqueen - I also agree with your desire to pull her out of there. Any school in which my child can be choked and have that incident treated as a non-incident is not a school I would want my child attending.

[redqueen]

15. Oh you have no idea how livid I was...

My daugher stopped wanting to go to school after that (shocking, eh?). I had to walk her to the door, and often left her crying there so I could get to work. It was horrible. Note that this was toward the end of the school year... before that future mental patient / criminal / wife beater choked her, she LOVED school... she would cry if she was sick and couldn't go... that's how much she loved it.

I approached the teacher and asked if she thought that might be a contributing factor... she immediately became hostile, told me "don't make a big deal out of this", rolling her eyes as she told me how that little boy was never like that (?), then turned her back as I sputtered and stuttered trying to figure out what the everloving FUCK had just happened.

[Zuni]

33. agreed

if my little girl was attacked and the teacher blew it off...:grr:

[redqueen]

7. Well...

a couple of people read that and already think it means I'm racist. I added some emphasis to try to make it clearer (bolded everything from "and..." onwards)... but I don't want to edit it substantially lest they accuse me of covering up my racist tendencies. :eyes:

[bertha katzenengel]

18. Some people are going to think you're a racist no matter what.

But if it is a fact that your daughter has been teased because she is white, there is no need to state that it's because of the school's racial makeup.

If you leave the line out, 1. you're merely stating the facts, and 2. it's probably racists who will infer that you're one of them. Pot to kettle.

It's not an easy situation to deal with, redqueen, and I wish you the best of luck.

[redqueen]

21. Thanks for the advice.

I guess I'll go back and see if it's not too late to change it.

*sigh*

on edit: it's too late to change it anyway. x(

[bertha katzenengel]

46. It's too late . . . . Then I'm sorry I suggested it.

I have a friend back home who adopted Della, a beautiful girl. Della came home crying one day. My friend asked her why, and Della told her that a girl on the playground said, "Black people are stupid. That's why they were slaves." Racism leaves adults' mouths and enters the mouths of babes. It's shameful.

:hug: for your daughter

[blondeatlast]

48. Agreed--that is the line that troubled me.

I don't think rq is racist, but that line did startle me some.

[Kikosexy2]

3. Nope...

any kid who does any harm to my child and the teachers and/or administrators don't do squat about it are gonna have hell to pay as well as the kid(s)'s parents--don't care if he/she is white, black, brown, etc. Don't f*#k with my kid.

[Kraklen]

4. Tough call.

I'd say yes.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

6. Wow, what a situation. Sorry you're going thru this.

I don't think that statement makes you seem racist. Ansd from what you've told us, yes, I think homeschooling would be a good idea.

[redqueen]

29. Thanks!

:hi:

I think it's the commas... I shouldn't expect everyone to be able to know what I mean intuitively, but honestly I thought that was pretty clear... that's why I posted it here... just to find out how off the mark I was in assuming as much.

[redqueen]

11. Why?

Perhaps I should've used semicolons instead of commas, except for that last one, after the "and"...

Ah well...

[Kraklen]

14. You wanted my opinion, there it is.

In any kindergarten class any given kid is going to experience rough housing and teasing. You're avoiding this school because of it's racial makeup.

If it were high school or something where kids are supposed to behave differently, then maybe you'd have a point.

[Shell Beau]

17. I don't think she is avoiding the school b/c of the racial

make-up, but more so b/c her kid is being teased and threatened. If she weren't being teased, it doesn't seem she would pull her out!

[Kraklen]

20. Little kids are "teased and threatened" at all schools.

And assuming they have older siblings, at home too.

If she hadn't been teased for being white, she would have been teased for being a "poopyhead" or for having "cooties."

As indicated in another post, she takes the racial makeup pretty seriously.

[Shell Beau]

25. I don't think it is racist. Her child may not be able to learn

in an environment while feeling threatened! If she had taken her child out just b/c they were all black, then that would qualify as racist.

[Kraklen]

31. I think that's what's essentially going on.

Overprotection and a school with a significant minority population.

[Shell Beau]

49. How can you say that based on what she wrote?

You don't know if that is the case or not.

[redqueen]

34. I don't take the racial makeup pretty seriously!

I only pointed it out so that her being teased for being white wouldn't seem weird... since we're a mostly white country.

Honestly... I wish I'd have left her race out of it, and just said she was teased about her race... then I'd be getting SHITLOADS of sympathy, and not just shit.

[Kraklen]

35. The kid who roughhoused your daughter...

hispanic?

[Shell Beau]

40. That wasn't really her point!

You are picking and choosing here!

[redqueen]

41. I don't even know!

JESUS!

[Kraklen]

43. So you weren't even a witness?

From the teacher's reaction it sounds like you're blowing the whole thing way out of proportion.

[Shell Beau]

47. I know she asked for opinions here, but you seem to be

going out of your way to prove she is racist! WTF?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shell Beau]

51. Wow! What an assumption to make on someone you don't even know!

[Kraklen]

53. She asked.

She gave the story.

I gave my opinion, based on the evidence.

Nothing personal about it.

[Shell Beau]

55. You don't think there is anything personal about calling

someone a racist?

[Kraklen]

58. Nope.

Like you've said, I've never met this person.

I'm not saying this person likes to dress up in sheets and burn crosses. I'm just saying that this person is one of many people who pulls their white kid out of public schools because of ethnic minorities. It's probably completely subconcious, like most forms of racism. And a person can't fix a problem until they admit they have one.

[Shell Beau]

61. Maybe there is no problem, Doctor.

You don't know this woman or her real intentions. Being so judgmental has never gotten me very far.

[Kraklen]

71. A question was asked.

I was asked to judge. I gave an honest answer.

[Goldmund]

57. And you base that on what?

One phrase from a letter???

Since you're calling her a racist, lend me the liberty of calling you a Political Correctness Nazi. :eyes:

[Kraklen]

59. LOL.

Alright, I'm a Political Correctness Nazi.

[redqueen]

62. Would you please kindly PM me the contents of that post?

I'm curious... missed it.

[Shell Beau]

65. Check your PM!

[Kraklen]

I answered your original question in the affirmative.

Restated that it was just my opinion, that I was simply answering your question, and that it was not personal.

[Shell Beau]

72. You sound so proud! I think most people would take that personally!

[Kraklen]

69. I answered your original question in the affirmative.

Restated that it was just my opinion, that I was simply answering your question, and that it was not personal.

[redqueen]

73. Um, calling someone a racist is, *by definition*, personal.

:crazy:

[Kraklen]

75. Why'd you ask the question then?

If you didn't really know the answer?

[Shell Beau]

77. She didn't ask if we thought she was a closet racist.

You so proudly answered that way though! I think she knew most people that would answer know her and know her not to be racist and wanted their input on this situation.

[Kraklen]

88. Would you rather I lie?

Would you rather I say, no you're perfectly justified in taking your white kid from a predominately minority school because of their racial makeup?

Closet racism is a serious problem. It's the responsibility of everybody to point it out and correct it where they see it. Even if it means ruffling feathers.

What does "proud" have to do with any of this? I've been nothing but civil.

[Shell Beau]

91. Judging people you don't know is a large problem as well!

I've never known it to solve anything!

[Kraklen]

94. I was asked a question.

I gave an answer.

In my opinion, redqueen is probably a perfectly decent human being, who (just like everybody else) isn't perfect.

Pointing out flaws isn't being personal, or insulting, it's constructive criticism. And it solves lots of things.

It's ignoring what you don't want to hear is what doesn't solve anything.

[redqueen]

78. Ugh.

"that makes you sound like a racist" is WAY different than "you ARE a racist".

Do you get that subtle difference?

[Kraklen]

82. You're splitting hairs.

[redqueen]

85. Logic = splitting hairs?

Like I said, pointless.

[Shell Beau]

84. Sometimes the ignore button can come in handy!!

Especially when you have to talk in circles.

[redqueen]

86. You just said a mouthful!

I'm out for today... I'll look at the rest later. Thanks very much for your support and kind words!

:hi:

[Kraklen]

89. Yes, "ignoring" things can come in handy.

I think that's part of the problem.

[Shell Beau]

92. Yeah if there is a problem to begin with!

I am talking in circles here, so I am OUT!!

[Shell Beau]

90. No problem! And don't worry about what some

people say. They don't know you and just like controversy!

[redqueen]

60. No, the teacher told my husband about it after school.

She pulled him aside and told him, "Now don't get upset... I want to tell you about an incident at school today."

He called me at work and told me about the conversation, and had me speak directly to my daughter about it, so that he wouldn't color her words with his interpretation. She described what happened. The teacher had left the room, the other student was mad at everyone in their group, and for some reason decided to try to wrap his little hands around her neck, and started squeezing. She said she could breathe, but that it hurt. The teaching assistant who was in the room freaked out, and called the teacher back in.

You assume a lot, you know that?

[Kraklen]

67. Looks like I assumed exactly what happened.

That kind of thing happens all the time in kindergarten classrooms. The teacher typically takes them aside, asks them what happens, they both start to cry, then he or she tells them to apologize, and fifeteen minutes later they're playing on the jungle gym.

They're kindergarteners.

Your comments about how this kid is a future criminal/wifebeater/psycho just illustrate my point as to how you've blown the thing wildly out of proportion.

[Shell Beau]

70. You sure are something else, I tell ya!

[redqueen]

76. Where do your kids go to school?

I'd love to know which areas strangulation is common in... so I can stay the hell away from them.

The racist teasing she endures... fine... that or some sort of teasing will happen everywhere. The lack of willingness to address the racist bullying is really the problem, but once again I shouldn't have assumed the logic would be easy to follow.

:eyes:

[Kraklen]

80. Kindergarten age kids fight.

They punch, they scream, they kick, they choke, and if someone isn't around to stop them they'll bite too.

But everybody with young kids already knows that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. A COMPETENT kindergarten teacher

has her students socialized well enough so that they don't attack each other.

My mom was a kindergarten teacher before she retired, and I visited her classes a few times over the years.

There were occasional kids sneaking punches or pinches at each other, but no serious mayhem.

Her secret, as she told it, was that she was The Wicked Witch of the West (by the way, did you know that Margaret Hamilton was a kindergarten teacher before she became an actress?)for the first two weeks, adopting a zero tolerance policy on behavior, and after that, she could lighten up and the kids would just behave, because they knew where the boundaries were.

[Kraklen]

104. Mmhmm.

And I've no reason to doubt the teacher's competency.

[Shell Beau]

105. No you are giving the teacher the benefit of the doubt

while accusing redqueen of being racist. Not to mention the fact that you don't know all of the background to the whole situation. You can only go by what she told you, but it seems that much more has gone on in the past. It is funny how you assume the teacher probably didn't contribute to the problem and you also assume the poster is racist. WTF?

[July]

98. redqueen, protect your child.

I have a huge problem with the notion that kids have to face the bullshit and "toughen up" in school.

Some kids and some teachers are assholes. School is for learning, not that shit.

I say this as the daughter of 2 teachers, one of whom became a principal. The arbitrary power-tripping in schools is one of its biggest problems.

[July]

97. Have to agree.

Kid being choked = cause for concern. No-brainer.

[redqueen]

19. No... you misread.

I'm not avoiding it because of its racial makeup. I'm avoiding because due to the that it's constituted mainly of Hispanic children, my caucasian-looking child is teased about being white. I think it's the commas... I really do.

And no, in no kindergarten class that I've ever heard of are children choking each other. I'm not talking about rough-housing. I'm talking about a little boy putting his hands around my daughter's throat and attempting to strangle her. Do you REALLY think that's normal?

[Kraklen]

22. Sound like typical child roughhousing to me.

Although unless you actually witnessed that, I'm betting it's been exaggerated at some point along the line.

"I'm not avoiding it because of its racial makeup. I'm avoiding because due to the that it's constituted mainly of Hispanic children"

:shrug:

[redqueen]

37. Why did you edit out the last part of that sentence?

"I'm avoiding because due to the that it's constituted mainly of Hispanic children, my caucasian-looking child is teased about being white."

Okay, so there should have been a "fact" in there (due to the FACT that its...)

Please explain why you cut off "my caucasian-looking child is teased about being white."

[Kraklen]

42. Because that was the relevant clause.

The second clause doesn't much matter.

Now it's a case of "those hispanics are so racist."

[redqueen]

64. You're quite wrong. You're doing what O'Reilly does, do you know that?

The second half of the sentence significantly affects the meaning of the first. Taking things out of context and quoting them to make your point is really weak. Really, really very weak.

[Kraklen]

74. The second half of the post IS irrelevant to the first half.

I just don't think that you want to admit it.

But like I said, leaving the quote in the exact context isn't any more flattering.

paraphrasing:

"I took my kid out because there were too many hispanics, and hispanics are racist towards my daughter."

See what I mean?

[redqueen]

79. Okay... yeah. This is pointless.

Have a nice day.

[July]

99. Don't bother arguing with someone who has decided you're "bad."

It's clear to most of us that you are worried about your kid. Normal parental response.

[Shell Beau]

12. Explain please!

[DebJ]

10. I can understand. Let me tell you what happened to my family.

I moved to Columbia, Maryland, a planned city...planned to be diverse economically and socially, to raise my children, because I wanted them to grow up color blind. I myself was born in DC and raised just over the DC line, in an all-white neighborhood...born in 1955. I was twelve in 1968. I saw the race riots. My Dad had a brick thrown through his truck window coming home from work. My Mom was born and raised in DC, and is intelligent enough to NOT be a racist. My Dad, born in New Orleans, is a racist. We had lots of heated dinner discussions, my Dad and I. My Mom didn't speak often, but I spoke what was in her heart. So I wanted my own children to grow up without such dissensions.
For the most part, it did work. Integrated societies are great. But, there are always the racist remnants. My son was insulted and assaulted numerous times for being white. Also, he is almost 7 feet tall, and a gang of short kids used to find it funny to jump him, en masse...he, like me, is a pacifist, and would run.
My son took it all, and still is not a racist. He understands that stupidity comes in all colors. And my son suffers from bipolar disorder...but his mood swings never affected his intelligence or his heart.
If your child is teased, but not in danger of assault, then I wouldn't consider this necessarily a reason to withdraw her from the school. Most school children are VICIOUS. If they don't tease other kids for their race, they will simply invent some other reason.
The teasing will not stop. But you can not withdraw from society. You have to learn how to function within it. Even most adults I have worked with are just as vicious as the school kids, frankly.

I just learned myself, and taught my children to understand, that WE don't have a problem, these idiots DO.

Oops, on edit, just saw that she was choked. Have you considered filing charges against this specific child who assaulted your child? My husband teaches in an inner-city school and believe me, this happens all the time, sorry to say. Is it the school, or the one child that is really the danger?

[barb162]

24. "Most school children are VICIOUS"

I think this is true. If they don't have racism, they will find something else to pick on a kid or kids. There are too many stories like this.

[Zuni]

38. it is immaturity and lack of well developed judgement making facilities

rather than true cruelty---I was mean as a snake when I was younger.

[barb162]

52. and it is a lack of empathy and compassion in children

[barb162]

56. I think children are born selfish (me, me, me) and then some

of them learn respect and compassion for others and some never learn it

[bleedingheart]

45. children are very representative of their parenting

[barb162]

54. you got that straight...I see it all over my family and

all over my neighborhood. I think there are a lot more sociopaths out there today than ever before.

[paula777]

13. Nope

[bleedingheart]

16. hmmmm....my son was stabbed in the chest with a pencil

over a discussion he had with another child regarding some little video game. Luckily it ended up not piercing his skin as much as leaving a 2 inch scrape on his chest.

This occurred in a white middle class suburban school.

I talked to the teacher, but it was her first year teaching and she was a bit nervous about the whole incident. She had comforted my son and sent him to the nurse...so I called the principal to back her up...and the kid was given a few weeks of detention.

My son remains in public school and will remain in public school.

Unfortunately life is messy and he has to learn to deal with those issues as well as academic issues. As a side note, he has Asperger's Syndrome and being exposed to his peers is even more important for him.

[redqueen]

23. It seems you're insinuating that I think the violence is due to race.

I don't.

I understand life is messy but I won't subject my child to violent children because they'll have to face violent people later in life. For that I'll send her to self-defense classes.

[Shell Beau]

36. Do what you feel will help your child the most. Who cares

if people think you are racist. We know you aren't and you know you aren't and that is all that matters!

[redqueen]

68. You're so sweet!

I just hate that it came across that way. I'm ALL ABOUT understanding... so I want to make my meaning clear.

Reaching mutual understanding is my penultimate goal in just about any debate / discussion. Even if you don't agree, you can strive to understand each others POV.

[Shell Beau]

87. Logical people think that way, others, on the other hand, well

they just like to be mean!

[bleedingheart]

39. have you spent a lot of time around a lot of children?

all kinds of things can happen with kids and one incident does not turn one child into a wife beater...or a serial killer....

my own kids do stuff to each other that results in crying, injuries and hurt feelings...but it is all normal stuff...however I do punish them for bad behavior.

I would recommend taking your concerns to the principal or the school board if you didn't get the information you desired from the Kindergarten teacher.

[Shell Beau]

44. Well I certainly have while working at the YMCA for a long time and

I know kids can be cruel. But if you feel uneasy about the situation, you make the decision that you feel is best and this is what she feels is best. And not all situations can be chalked up to kids just being kids.

[redqueen]

81. I *did*.

And their lack of concern is probably a large part of the reason the school's considered the worst in the district.

Jesus... this place.

[July]

100. Life is messy, but you're not required to tolerate difficult circumstances

I have seen (too many times) kids suffer because their parents think taht they have to take what the school experience deals them. After seeing unbelievable cruelty and stupidity among some teachers -- please note, all, that I say "some" -- I think a parent is negligent if he or she does not step in as soon as the child is adversely affected.

It's good to learn how to deal with problems, it's bad to be bullied or abused. If your child is abused or mistreated, take no prisoners.

[Zuni]

26. fuck what people think---do what is good for your little girl

seriously. Your little girl is more important

[Burma Jones]

66. Agree - Your Kid always comes first

So what if people think you're racist. Fuck them.

[barb162]

28. no

[Crunchy Frog]

30. It's not right for any kid to be teased because of her skin color.

If objecting to racism directed at your kid makes you a racist, then the world is just going nuts.:crazy:

[Jara sang]

32. There is only one definition for racism

If you make your decision based upon the color of another person's skin or that person's racial background no matter what your or their color, then that is a racist decision. So if I say, "I only date black women" and I am white. I am being a racist. Because I am making determinations based upon skin color. If I am black and I say "I only date black women" then I am equally being a racist. Now, are the ramifications of me being white and only dating black women on the scale of a Mississippi lynch mob? I don't think so, but it is racism none the less. The issue is highly emotional but the definition is not.

[mark414]

63. huh?

that makes no sense

[Jara sang]

83. What do you mean?

Please elaborate.

[jonnyblitz]

101. you're post made sense to me.

:shrug:

[skygazer]

93. The thing is, it's not a very well worded paragraph

Your question is whether it makes you sound racist - put the way you've put it in the OP, it kind of does. Or, if not racist, sort of .... I'm not sure what the word I'm looking for here is. It's just that black and hispanic and asian kids have spent plenty of years here in the good ol' USA being teased for their race - that's not right, nor is it right for any kid to be so teased. But it sort of sounds like you feel it's MORE not right because it's your daughter and she's white.

I know that's not what you mean, both because I'm familiar with your posts and because of what you've said subsequently but your question WAS whether or not the paragraph made you sound racist and, my honest answer is, kinda sorta. :(

Sorry, not trying to accuse you of any such thing because I don't think you are - it's just not worded too well.

But the bottom line is that you have to do whatever you feel is right for your child. If she's being assaulted and you're afraid of more of the same then get her the heck outta there! That's the real point, right?

[bluestateguy]

95. Never play politics with your child's education

Remember in 1993 when the Clintons were attacked by conservatives for sending Chelsea to a private school, rather than the bad DC public schools? The Clintons oppose private schools vouchers and are supported by the teachers unions. I'm sure they knew this, as well as the political ramifications of their choice, but in the end they decided that they would rather be called hypocrites by the Rush Limbaugh crowd than to make a political statement with their daughter's education.

You do what you feel is right for your daughter and don't worry about what people are saying behind your back.

[El Fuego]

96. No, you are a realist.

[Logansquare]

102. Some friends of mine moved because of this situation

their daughter, who was in first grade, was verbally harassed and ostracized because she was white. This was in a predominately AA school, and the teacher did little to intervene with the other students' behavior. Racism in children only happens with the influence and complicity of adults.
The child was clinically depressed before she changed school, I swear. They moved to a middle-class integrated area, and now has many friends of all ethnic backgrounds.

[tjwmason]

106. No - not in the slightest

You should put your daughter in the best possible educational atmosphere - the teacher's response clearly indicates that this school does not fit that criterion.

Your daughter's education comes first.