"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve...

[asthmaticeog]

...and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair." — H.L. Mencken

Discuss.

[chickenscratching]

1. That notion IS naive!

Mencken doesn't even bother defining radical?

I mean, look:

Radical:
1. Arising from or going to a root or source; basic: proposed a radical solution to the problem.
2. Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme: radical opinions on education.
3. Favoring or effecting fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practices, conditions, or institutions: radical political views.
4. Linguistics. Of or being a root: a radical form.
5. Botany. Arising from the root or its crown: radical leaves.
6. Slang. Excellent; wonderful.
:shrug:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=radical

Edit, for dictionary link

[RandomKoolzip]

3. IMO, Mencken was an ur-neocon.

Could be very elitist at times and never held back his contempt for the "average" person. Kind of a bigot, really.

That being said, he could use the language beautifully.

[chickenscratching]

4. what does "ur-neocon" mean?

:shrug:

[RandomKoolzip]

5. He was a precursor to the NeoConservative school of thought.

Y'know, lying to the public is okay, aggressive foreign policy, government is in the hands of powerful, moneyed elites and that's wonderful, etc.

[tigereye]

10. not sure I agree with that RKZ

he raised questions that other types of media were not willing to talk about.

Mencken is well worth reading for an insightful snapshot of that period of time and he was capable of skewering scary folk as well as folk we might be inclined to agree with from the distance of history. Also he can be wonderfully funny!

http://www.io.com/~gibbonsb/mencken.html

[RandomKoolzip]

12. Oh, I like his writing.

Mencken was a terrific stylist. I just have trouble with his undisguised contempt for the poor and the "booboise."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

14. These are the words of an Ur-NeoCon?

"Is a young man bound to serve his country in war? In addition to his
legal duty there is perhaps also a moral duty, but it is very obscure.
What is called his country is only its government and that government
consists merely of professional politicians, a parasitical and
anti-social class of men. They never sacrifice themselves for their
country. They make all wars, but very few of them ever die in one. If
it is the duty of a young man to serve his country under all
circumstances then it is equally the duty of an enemy young man to
serve his. Thus we come to a moral contradiction and absurdity so
obvious that even clergymen and editorial writers sometimes notice
it."

—H.L. Mencken, Minority Report

While I agree that he was a bit of an elitist, I've never run across any sentiment of his that dovetails with the Straussian ideals of neoconservatism.

[RandomKoolzip]

15. Well, he wasn't monolithic.

Even Strauss had some good things to say about the 'Jewish Problem."

It's the subtext of most of the rest of his work that bugs me. Maybe it's the light that recent history has cast on Mencken that makes me think of the Neocon movement when I think of him. :shrug:

[tigereye]

9. you have to consider the period

that Mencken was writing in - 1920's - 30's. There was much more "radicalism" and socialism at that time and it was not marginalized in the same way that it is now. Some of what he was talking about probably involved attempts to start labor unions, as well.

Mencken is well worth reading for an insightful snapshot of that period of time.

[RandomKoolzip]

2. Radical rightist or Radical leftist?

I'm sure there's some militia/Posse Comitatus types who would agree with that statement, too.

Both sides see themselves as "good citizens driven to despair," but only one is correct in that assessment.

[asthmaticeog]

6. Do you view the militia types as necessarily bad citizens?

I obviously disagree with them on most things, but that seemed a little strong.

[RandomKoolzip]

7. Yes I do.

Anyone who preaches or promotes racialism is a bad citizen, IMO.

If we define a citizen as anyone who resides in a community and abides by the laws of that community, and who recognizes the interconnectedness of all members of that community, then a rightist racist gun-stockpiler is, by definition, a bad citizen. He has purposefully excluded himself by his adherence to a creed that places special emphasis on a racial heirarchy and taken up arms in the paranoiac defense of that creed. Often times, he's a tax protestor, too, which further devalues the community in which he lives.

A leftist radical usually just wants free health care.

[asthmaticeog]

8. The leader of the Ohio militia in the '90s was a black man.

Clearly not all the militia types are necessarily racist.

[RandomKoolzip]

11. Alan Keyes is a bright light in the conservative movement.

Which doesn't necessarily mean that the conservative movement is helpful or beneficial to black people.

I just re-read "The Terrorist Next Door," by Daniel Levitas. The book does a wonderful job of giving the history of the far-right tax protest/Posse/militia/Klan groups. In his chapter on the 90's militia, Levitas points out that that James Johnson, the leader of which you speak, was nothing but a token.

During the subcommitte hearings on militias in 1995, John Trochman, leader of the Montana Militia, brought Johnson onto the national stage to testify specifically to deflect charges of racism. Trochman, of course, was member of the Aryan Nations.

[asthmaticeog]

13. I was not aware of that. I'll keep an eye out for that book. Thanks.