*SPOILER ALERT* Let's discuss Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

[RubyDuby in GA]

I stayed away from the internet all weekend - busy reading.

I can't find anyone else who has finished it yet and I'm dying to talk about it.

I cannot freakin' believe the end. I cried for 15 minutes and I'm 31 years old for goodness sake!

What do you guys think about it?

[Lavender Brown]

1. I sort of expected the ending, but there were a few things I didn't expect

It kind of lays out the plot of the last book. We know almost everything he has to do now to kill Voldemort - but not how.

[RubyDuby in GA]

4. True, but I mean Dumbledore?

I honestly didn't see that coming.

[Lavender Brown]

10. Maybe he can still be contacted via his portrait in the office

The other dead headmasters still "live" in their pictures.

[RubyDuby in GA]

39. I agree

He was sleeping when they were describing his portrait. Maybe he couldn't wake up until after his funeral??? :shrug:


The other threads have some terrific theories. I still can't make up my mind about Snape. I just can't wait for them to get to this point in the movie series....I love Alan Rickman and had the best time imagining him saying those lines while I was reading.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

86. Alan Rickman plays the best villains.

[jobycom]

2. Okay, first, why does he break up with Ginny to protect her? (SPOILERS)

Ron and Hermione get to risk their lives, why not her? Plus, he points out that Ginny was used before just for being friends with Harry. Draco and everyone else have already seen him and Ginny together, Ginny is the brother of Ron and friend to Hermione and the daughter of Arthur--they are all on V's bad side. Harry staying away from her won't help her.

Second, Mrs. Weasley praises Harry for saving Ron, Ginny and Arthur at various times, and says how lucky they were that Ron and Harry became friends. Of course, without that friendship, Ginny and Ron would have never been in danger.

Just two things I wondered about.

The ending. Something's not quite right. Snape didn't take the opportunity to taunt Dumbledore before killing him? And when Harry was lying on the ground without a wand near the front entrance, with Snape standing over him, Snape didn't even grab him? He could have easily cast a spell on Harry to bring him back to Voldemort, and he'd have been an even bigger hero. Was Rowlings just getting a little sloppy or lazy at the end, or is there more here than meets the eye? I don't see how she can get out of Snape murdering Dumbledore and siding with V, but Snape acted out of character, and Rowlings almost never has anyone act out of character. Maybe, since Snape didn't know Harry witnessed the murder, he hoped to come back to the school later and claim innocence? But too many people saw him run up the stairs, then run away with Draco.

Great book. I can't shake all the questions, so it must have been great. I got a bit teary at the end, too.

[intheflow]

5. I think Snape will be redeemed in the 7th book.

He could have killed Harry--or at least captured him--but didn't. Instead, he yelled at Harry to never use Unforginveable Curses. Dumbledore's death could have been faked or a pre-arranged mercy killing.

[jobycom]

13. He did seem

to still be instructing Harry in that final fight scene, didn't he? "You're broadcasting your thoughts, you have to mask what you are going to do" kind of stuff.

I mean, I watched Dumbledore blown off a roof with an Unforgiveable death spell that only ONE other person has ever survived, and I never for a moment could be sure he was dead, or that Snape was a good guy or a bad guy. You think Rowlings has a hit? What was all that talk to Draco? "When can convince everyone you're dead, so they'll leave you alone." Was he tipping his hand?

I have no friggin' idea what happened!

[catbert836]

19. On that

Snape's role, if he is a good guy, in spying on Voldemort had better be of the ultimate importance. Dumbledore could have told Snape that, to protect his role as spy, if he had to kill Dumbledore, to do it.

[malmapus]

26. I'm thinkin that's where their argument came from

I think that Snape confided in Dumblebore about his having taken an Unbreakable Vow.

Then Dumbledore probaly ordered Snape to kill him if the need arised in order to save his role as a spy, in the same way he made Harry promise to follow his orders no matter what.

The more I think on it the more I'm thinking Snape was in a rotten position in this book (after having alot of bloodlust directed at him last night). But after cooling off and thinking and seeing other thoughts I think he's still a somewhat good guy.

[soothsayer]

Yes, I'm kind of thinking this, too. n/t

[xmas74]

71. I think it was a mercy killing.

He and Snape had "argued" before. Snape didn't get upset w/ Harry until Harry called him a coward. I think that the only real loyalty Snape had was to DD and he did whatever DD asked of him. IMO, DD knew that Snape was the only one of the OotP who could go through w/ killing him if he asked. Snape's not evil and he didn't actually murder DD. He did it out of respect.
Then again, I have always thought that Snape was misunderstood.

[thom1102]

79. DD couldn't heal completely...

Maybe DD's condition was worse than he was letting on, and Snape was using extraordinary measures to keep him alive. Maybe, like you said, their argument was because DD has told him to protect his cover even if it cost DD his life. Maybe DD was begging not for Snape to help him, but for Snape to do what he knew he must, and kill DD. MIND F*CK!!

[xmas74]

83. Bingo!

When it comes to a situation like that you would pick the "strongest" person on that level. I think that Snape was the only person who could handle it. And if there was any begging, it was to put him down instead of save him. IMO, it was a form of euthanasia. I think DD knew that he was dying. He knew there was no hope. He decided to make sure his death benefited someone. He knew what would happen to both Snape and Draco and wanted to protect them both (he is the headmaster, after all and would want to protect all students of his, both past and present. It's his job). His death could protect them from the other DEs. Maybe he also saw it as a way to bring Draco over. I think that Draco is all talk and might become more interested in fighting LV than following him, due to his recent experience. And DD knew that he had to protect Snape since he was in deep w/ the group. If Snape did not finish it than his cover would have been blown.
And it was so obvious that Snape did not like doing what he did. If it did not affect him than he would not have been so offended when Harry called him a coward. And he definitely would not have let Harry leave.

[malmapus]

6. In regards to Snape and DD

I admit when I put the book down, I wanted Snapes blood spilled.

But now that its the day after and I've had time to think on it, I'm thinking that Snape was bound by the Unbreakable Vow, after all if Draco couldn't kill DD and finish his task it was Snapes butt on the line or he would die. When he and DD argued in the begining, maybe it was DD making Snape swear that if he had to he had to kill him :shrug:, almost in the sense that DD made Harry to swear that no matter what he made him finish drinking that potion.

I agree with you on the Ginny deal. Voldermort and the DE's no doubt would know take her out for the sake that she's related to Ron, plus they'd have to know that Harry has feelings for her too. Harry was probaly just trying to do the "noble" thing in his mind.

I'm wondering if DA will play a bigger part in 7?

[jobycom]

17. I'm such a romantic, Ginny was my main focus through most of the book

I loved the way she first tips Harry's feelings, when he smells something that reminds him of the Weasley's house in Potion class, then is told it's a potion that will smell like everyone's favorite smell. (Notice Hermione starts describing the Weasley house, too, I think.) Later Ginny walks up behind Harry and he smells the smell again.

Ginny doesn't strike me as the type to sit back and watch, though. She has never obeyed anyone, she's always involved. Even at the Black house in the last novel, she was the one spying on the adults and lying casually to her mother about it.

I'll be very disappointed if she's not right beside Harry in the final battle.

[intheflow]

21. I'm sure Harry and Ginny will hook up in the end.

That is, if neither of them dies in the book 7. :scared:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

30. I think Snape did exactly...

what Dumbledore wanted him to do.

Practically the whole book was Dumbledore preparing Harry for life without him. I have no doubt Dumbledore knew that he would have to perish and needed Harry to know everything he could to finish the fight against Voldermort. Dumbledore needed Snape in with the Death Eaters as a spy and I think that he knew that the only way that Voldermort would completely trust Snape was through his death.

I go back to "Goblet of Fire", when Voldie was resurrected and talked about the Death Eaters who would/would not be coming back. He mentioned one that he thought had left him forever -- that was Snape. So Dumbledore/Snape would have to prove beyond a doubt to Voldie that Snape was back on his side.

I though that JKR was giving us a big clue when the new book opened with Snape taking the Unbreakable oath with Draco's Mom. Dumbledore never told anyone why he completely trusted Snape -- we now see with that Snape/Draco's mom scene just how Dumbldore could have trusted Snape.

I had always know that Dumbledore would have to die sometime, and I suspected it would be in this book. But Dumbledore is not gone from the story. With his portrait now in the Headmaster's Office, we will certainly be hearing more from him. :)

On edit: Also, I just remembered something else that struck me. I believe Dumbledore put Harry under the spell (forget the name of it) when they were entering Hogwarts because he knew that, if Harry had the oppourtunity, he would (and had the skill to) fight to the death to protect Dumbledore. He needed Harry out of the way so that Snape could kill him, as planned. Also, Draco kept going on about how Snape was prying too much into his plans re: Dumbledore - he took that as Snape trying to steal his thunder. I think that Snape was interfering because he had to be the one to kill Dumbledore for the plan to work - not just because he took the Unbreakable oath.

I think that JKR was setting us up for something in "GOF" with the pensieve/occlumency (sp?) scenes between Harry and Snape. Harry got to
see just how pathetic Snape was (and felt compassion for him because of it) and Snape got to see that Harry was much more like him -- the outcast, the one picked on and bullied, the one who had a miserable unbringing -- than the privileged/popular boy he assumed he was. I foresee some incredibly dramatic episodes between Harry and Snape, not just because of the Snape/Dumbledore event, but because these two people's history/lives/destiny have been so deeply intertwined.

[XemaSab]

33. Good call!

"Dumbledore never told anyone why he completely trusted Snape -- we now see with that Snape/Draco's mom scene just how Dumbldore could have trusted Snape."

Also, the reason that Crouch, Snape, and Karkaroff did not appear at Voldemort's side in the graveyard scene is that they were all on Hogwarts grounds at the time, and you CAN'T APPARATE OR DISAPPARATE FROM HOGWARTS.

[Orsino]

68. "You can't apparate/disapparate from Hogwarts."

Unless, perhaps, you practically own the place and can have built yourself as many back doors as you wanted. It certainly seems possible that Dumbledore simply slipped away rather than being disintegrated.

I have little doubt, though, that Snape is still following his orders, or is at least working with him. He would have been in a perfect position, for example, to have tucked Dumbledore away somewhere before making his escape. He could have cast whatever flashy light show he wanted to cover whatever Dumbledore was really up to.

There is the problem of the Unbreakable Vow, though. Has Snape already fulfilled the letter of that oath by helping Draco in the last conflict? He certainly gave the kid every opportunity to kill Dumbledore.

We might see Dumbledore again by way of his portrait. If he died on Hogwarts turf, he's certain to reappear there. If he didn't really die, he might still pretend to have done so, operating the portrait remotely to keep up appearances. If his portrait doesn't talk in the next book, I'll assume he's just taking an undercover holiday.

[XemaSab]

31. Agreed

would have been easy for Snape to take Harry along to Voldemort, but he did seem to be preventing the other death eaters from attacking Harry and blocking Harry's spells instead of returning spells.

Additional spoiler thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=279x1025

[intheflow]

3. Spoliler thread in Fantasy Lit Group up as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=279x1025

It was an awesome book, imo, though edited within an inch of its life.

[RubyDuby in GA]

8. Wow. Thanks for the link

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who COMPLETELY DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING!

And she's not even supposed to start writing the next one 'til next year??? WTF????? Can't wait.....

[malmapus]

7. Harry as Voldermorts Horcruxes?

I'm starting to wonder now if Harry might be a Horcruxe of Voldermorts. It would almost explain better about how he has some of Voldermorts abilities as well as access to his strong emotions, and Voldermort having a bond with Harry as well so to speak.

Would that mean that Harry would have to sacrifice himself??

[intheflow]

12. The Fantasy Lit group also wondered about that.

But someone ther enoted that DD made a big deal about how splitting your soul into horcruxes can only be done by killing someone (which Harry hasn't done) and diminishes your soul (which, we can assume, hasn't happened to Harry).

[malmapus]

15. I was thinking the opposite

That Voldermort put a part of his soul in Harry. He had just killed Harry's parents, so that part of performing a horcruxes was done, it almost would go with "making him his equal" in the prophecy. That Voldermort would put a part of his soul in Harry.

[Vogon_Glory]

25. I Also Thought V Might Have Done That...

[jobycom]

22. Rowlings said Harry will live through the end of the last book

In some interview I read somewhere. She was asking questions that others should have asked. She said she's always asked if Harry will live, and she said yes, but she says she's never been asked if Harry will live in a way that means he will get older and have a normal life after the book, and she refused to answer her own question.

[XemaSab]

35. She also has repeatedly asked

"Why didn't Voldemort die?" which I believe she has now answered.

[Vogon_Glory]

67. Hermione Granger--Future Headmistress of Hogwarts???

I can't help but wonder if Herminione Granger might become Headmistress of Hogwarts someday--if she lives through Book Seven. She might only get the job after many years in an epilogue, but I think that she'll probably deserve it.

[SharonRB]

32. I was thinking exactly the same thing

It would totally explain how they can be so linked with each other.

[Lumily]

56. This is what I'm thinking too...

...and I hate it. :(

[zbdent]

9. Q:

Did Sirius Black (or whatever HP's werewolf uncle's name is) show up?

I don't buy that he's "dead" . . . there was no kill, just him disappearing through a door to the "world of the dead" (or however it was written) . . .

[intheflow]

11. A: Sirius Black, Harry's godfather (not uncle), was not a werewolf.

That's Lupin.

B: No, he didn't come back. He's really dead and Harry inherited his entire estate, including his house elf.

[zbdent]

16. Thanks for answering my incorrectly done question

:banghead: <- me

Despite my erroneous labeling.

however, I still feel that the one who disappeared is not really dead . . .

[catbert836]

14. It blew my mind.

Leave it to J. K. to have Snape kill Dumbledore, then leave us all wondering if that means he's really a bad guy after all.
I liked how she saved up all the action 'till the end- that was really cool.
There was also a lot of humor in it, which we all needed- example Ron taking Romilda's love potion.
R. A. B.= Regulus Black? Only charachter i can think of.

[intheflow]

18. Regulus Black

is the name that the Fantasy Lit group came up with, as well. Someone over there also noted that when they were cleaning Sirius Black's home in Order of Phoenix, they found

*cue dramatic music*








a locket that couldn't be opened.

[catbert836]

20. Wow. I didn't remember that.

It's great how she ties everything together- that probably is it.

[SharonRB]

34. Great memory!

That could explain an awful lot.

[thom1102]

80. That is exactly what I was thinking...

I bet it is among the thing Mundungus stole from 12 Grimmauld Place

[XemaSab]

36. I knowit!

What craftsmanship! What an ability to weave a plot!

"Duh, so does this mean Snape is a BAD GUY? Let's reread the WHOLE SERIES and try to figure this out..."

(Got through SS last night...)

[jobycom]

23. I loved the whole "Stan Shunpike" sequence

Harry won't support the Ministry because they are holding innocent people in jail just to look like they've done something.

Then, when Dumbledore is explaining prophecy to Harry, and he over-emphasizes that Voldemort has made the prophecy come true because he attacked Harry's parents and thus created an enemy out of Harry, where Harry wouldn't have been one otherwise?

[Lavender Brown]

24. So...

Is it still possible that Neville is the one, even though Harry's been going through all of this because Voldemort thought, and still thinks, it is him?

[malmapus]

27. Neville could of been the one

But I'm goin with what Dumbledore said that Voldermort made Harry the one by taking the prophecy in his own hands without knowing it all.

[xmas74]

72. They said that it was interesting that he chose Harry.

Harry is a halfblood like himself while Neville was fullblooded. LV is fascinated by fullbloods yet his biggest fear was from a halfblood child.
So the prophesy could have applied to either child since there were so many similarities in their stories. LV chose which one he feared the most.

[mondo joe]

45. But Neville isn't THE ONE because he wasn't chosen to be.

But I still think that means he'll have some exceptionally important role in Voldemort's defeat.

[thom1102]

82. Neville Longbottom and the Sorcerer's Stone?!

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, huh?

[KitchenWitch]

81. Say...is your screenname after the Lavender Brown in the books?

[Rainbowreflect]

28. Here is another thread on the book.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3669222

[SharonRB]

29. I finished it, too

Spent most of the weekend reading. I thought it would take me the rest of the summer!

Who else noticed the dig at Shrub in the second sentence of the book?

[XemaSab]

37. W the Wretched

additional spoiler thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=279x1025

[Lisa]

65. "Wretched Man" Dubya! (WMD for short)

That's his new nickname around our household.

[RubyDuby in GA]

38. Ha! I noticed that too

First laugh of the book for me. I especially loved when she writes that Harry thinks he'll never understand the lengths that girls will to go to get revenge on each other. Just like high school...

[MN ChimpH8R]

40. Gonna have to read it again

There was just so much to take in.

I was ready to beat Snape into paste with my bare hands after finishing the book, but reflection and some clues offered by other DUers have me reconsidering. The easiest thing in the world would have been for Snape to take Harry to Voldemort. But he didn't do it. And why on earth was he telling HP, in effect, to become a better occlumens during the battle. As usual, one is left completely unable to decipher which side Snape actually supports. I immediately guessed Regulus Black on seeing the note in the false horcrux and remembered the locket from Sirius' home. I half-expected Dumbledore's passing (though apparently not all great wizards really "die" in the Muggle sense - viz, the portraits in AD's office).

Mostly, I liked the maturing of the characters: Ron's almost deliberately annoying Hermione by taking up with Lavender; Hermione's obvious jealousy (these two have to end up together; Harry's newfound passion for Ginny being reciprocated (and I expect to see her with Harry however difficult things become - she's a Weasley and isn't going to back down from anything, even LV); Fleur's showing real character; Lupin and Tonks was a wonderful little surprise. The female characters were a real delight throughout the novel.

Much to revel in, thrill to, and more to ponder. 7 should be a real barn-burner.

[malmapus]

41. Yup, wanted to pound Snape into paste myself

But the same way, now that I've had time to reflect and see other thoughts. Snape did go out of his way NOT to kill Harry while running off the grounds, and seemed to be trying to give "lessons" as well without giving himself away.

Will be very interesting to see how he plays out in the end.

[mondo joe]

44. I thought Snape was still pretty obviously on Dumbledore's side.

Here's why:

1. Dumbledore has some reason to trust Snape absolutely.

2. Dumbeldore did not fear death and would not have begged Snape to spare him - his begging was for Snape to do something. And that something, I believe, was to deal Dumbledore the final blow which at once:

a. Prevented Malfoy from going down that ultimate bad path
b. Secured Snape's place in the Death Eaters (exactly where Dumbledore wants him)

3. Snape reacted so strongly to being called a coward - because he knows he's not a coward - in fact he is taking on the single most dangerous role in the entire fight against Valdemort.

4. He saved Harry yet again - by preventing him being killed by another Death Eater

[XemaSab]

46. Yeah, but

the argument for the other side is that DD was really, really, really shocked that Snape betrayed him. I agree that he would not have begged Snape to spare him, but he might easily have just been horrified at the betreyal.

[mondo joe]

48. I don't buy it at all. Not much to support it, and much to the contrary.

[XemaSab]

51. I'm keeping an open mind

that's what I love about Snape... the moral ambiguity.

When the moral ambiguity is gone, the series will die for me.

[mondo joe]

57. That's one reason this was my least favorite of the series!

I felt Snape was too obvious, from his first scene in this book to the last. :-(

[Twillig]

55. So the idea presents itself-->

Is the reason that Dumbledore trusted Snape completely was perhaps that he had Snape make an unbreakable vow to protect Harry? I'd have to think so. I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore would be smart enough to extract that from Snape rather than a pledge of loyalty to himself.

Or perhaps it was Snape's idea. A way to atone.

[mondo joe]

58. Yes, I considered the Unbreakable Vow. But I suspect there's

something else - something we have not yet learned about - that will explain DD's trust in Snape.

[Solly Mack]

59. I thought about that

it makes sense in a lot of ways


Snape was free to hate Harry...and did...just never free to allow harm to come to Harry - by his hands or anothers....which might mean Snape dies in book 7 because he can't kill Harry and he can't allow another to do so.

And no one knew of the (real) reason D trusted Snape...the unbreakbale vow would fit into that perfectly.

[XemaSab]

64. The problem with the unbreakable vow

is what's the penalty? Death?

Would Snape die to deliver Potter to Voldemort?

There's something beyond the vow that we cannot see....

[dbonds]

84. IF Snape is spying, who is he reporting to.

What good will it do if no one is left to trust him. I can see that maybe Snape is a plant that is supposed to help kill LV when the Horcuxs are destroyed though.

[MN ChimpH8R]

85. The reason DD trusted Snape so completely, IMO

is that Snape told DD something of infinite importance in defeating LV such as the way to kill LV; or (2) as others have surmised, Snape took an unbreakable vow to DD to protect HP and follow DD's instructions no matter how extreme (i.e., killing DD).

It seems that Snape will be the pivotal character in how the war against LV concludes.

[Vogon_Glory]

42. A Pity About Snape In A Way

A pity about Severus Snape in a way. I would have enjoyed a sub-plot where Snape falls in love with and courts a strong-minded, argumentative West Indian woman who wasn't about to put up with any condescension from her would-be fiance.

[mondo joe]

43. This was my least favorite of the HP series - all just set up for the next

book, it seemed to me.

I thought the romantic relationships were somewhat clumsy - slow moving, then suddenly couples are aligned, then HP has to break up suddenly.

Also the pacing of the death of Dumbledore - the whole drinking-the-potion thing seemed to drag on, and then his funeral was so quick.

I missed the sotr of convention of the HP series in which certain things are acheived and surprises are had.

I also felt in this book the mysteries resolved were not laid out in the book but held back by Rowling.

Finally, I thought Snape was handled clumsily - it seems patently obvious to me that he continues to work for Dumbledore. I felt no real sense of ambivalence there.

But I did enjoy some more solid characterization, and progress in the overall plot of the series.

[intheflow]

75. I agree with all your critiques of this book.

But I suspect it was the editors' axe and not Rowling that gave sections of this book a choppy, clumsy feel. I heard they cut 300 pages!

[Solly Mack]

47. I'll never like Snape - regardless

I can't like a man who takes his anger out on a child simply because he didn't like the child's parent.

Also, Snape was willing to let an innocent man get the Dementor's kiss for no other reason than his hate of that man...(he refused to listen to reason, he refused to hear the truth - he let his hate dictate his actions)

Doesn't matter what James or Sirius did to Snape when they were students - Harry didn't do it and he didn't deserve Snapes contempt and hate....but from day 1, Snape was abusive of Harry.



Snape doesn't strike me as anything but a petty, vindictive and weak hypocrite (Pure-blood indeed. HA!) Much like Voldemort, Snape is ashamed of his heritage and chose to be abusive to others in order to feel better about what he saw as a flaw in himself. (Lot of self-hatred in calling another muggle born a mudblood as he did Lily Evans-nee Potter)And we all know Riddle is a half-blood.

Oddly enough, Harry isn't....both his parents were magical...neither Snape nor Riddle can say that. Harry's not "pure-blood" but he isn't a half-blood either.

I also thought that D.'s death was "too neat"...that maybe, just maybe, Snape was acting on D,'s orders....but such will not change my opinion of Snape if it bears out to be true. His would be one death I wouldn't mourn.


But maybe, Snape is as bad as some of us have always felt he was...and he is Voldemort's man (through and through)

Yes, I noted Snape seemed to be instructing Harry even as he blasted Harry with hexes. However, Snape told the other Death Eaters they couldn't kill Harry because the "Dark Lord" wanted to do it - so Snape not killing Harry at the gates of Hogwarts doesn't really mean anything.

If Snape was still in "spy-mode", he couldn't kill Harry because Voldemort wanted to be the one that killed Harry...and if Snape was fooling D. and actually belonged to the Dark Lord, then he still couldn't kill Harry because then he would be disobeying his Master. (Either way, Snape could not kill Harry)-and if he was working on D.'s orders, Snape wouldn't want to kill Harry anyway...well, ok...he might have wanted to - but he would not have

The argument Hagrid overheard is telling - but can be telling in 2 different ways - either it says Snape was rebelling against working for D or rebelling against the thought of continuing his ruse (if it was to lead to him killing D)

I'm currently re-reading all the books and still working on "what I think" about Snape's actions. But I'll never like Snape...or feel sorry for him should it prove he was forced into the role of Judas....his treatment of Harry has earned my undying scorn and contempt.


The trio will go together( in book 7) because they hold the 3 wand cores - Harry, Ron and Hermione.(phoenix, unicorn and dragon's heart...and it will take all 3 wands to finish Voldemort off. Only Harry doesn't fully understand that yet...but it is why D said he could tell them 2 and no one else.

We had the changing of the guard. Dumbledore passed the reigns to Harry in book 6. Which tells me D knew he would most likely die.(which *might* make Snape a good guy eventually)
D put his entire trust in Harry. He also put the entire "plan" to rid Voldemort in Harry's hands. The OoP can only aid Harry - if they can...but they will no longer call the shots - or tell Harry what to do. He's 17 in July and an adult....free to magic anytime, anywhere....which was one point of D.'s visit to the Dursleys. To let them and Harry know the debt of family was almost over...as Harry would be 17 July next.

Harry's green eyes play a part in his ability to deflect Voldemort...don't know how yet....but they do...JKR said herself that his having his mother's eyes was very important.(Did he have green eyes at birth? or after the AK curse?)Is suicide a form of murder? If it is, did Lily charm Harry in more ways than one? She was good at charms and JKR said that too was very important. James bought her time...but time to do what exactly?

Also, we now know a child can apparate along side an adult....why didn't Lily apparate with Harry that Halloween night? If D could do it for Harry (the 1st time to Slughorn's house) why couldn't Lilly do it for Harry when Voldemort arrived?

My mind's all over the place with this. :)


(spell-check needs a Harry Potter addition)

[mondo joe]

49. I adore Snape.

He's petty and proud and all - true, true, true.

But he takes on the jobs no one else could or would. He's harsh but almost always correct.

And given his beginnings he has probably made more progress toward being a decent person than almost any other character in the series.

[Solly Mack]

50. If you say so

:hi:

[XemaSab]

53. Me too

Snape makes the series for me.

He's so complicated, with so many subtle motivations and things we are not privy to...

[crimson333]

77. add me

Snape is my favorite character in the series

he will end up being trustworthy in the end

[XemaSab]

52. and why didn't snape

take harry with him to vodemort?

[Solly Mack]

54. I wondered that, too

Perfect chance to do just that

We know Malfoy wasn't old enough to apparate - if he even could. We know Snape apparated w/ Malfoy and maybe you can only take one other person "along side"...but there were other D.E. s there to drag Harry along.

I still don't like Snape though - and never will. :)

[XemaSab]

60. It never ceases to amaze me

(as a total aside) how everyone who reads the books likes a different person.

That's MASTERY there... being able to write a series with a fairly large cast where every person who reads it finds a different person in the book that's their favorite.

I like Snape best, and I see myself in Hermione. Neville has really grown on me, and Lupin's got a sad grace about him. And, I must admit, the series will be very different without Dumbledore there...

[Lavender Brown]

61. There isn't much series left...

:(

[Solly Mack]

62. I agree! I love those books for that just that reason!

We had a "round-table" on Saturday afternoon to discuss the book(s)...everyone had a different favorite - though we all could see parts about other characters we truly liked or related to..

I love Luna! Neville has always been a favorite of mine. Something about the underdog....

I get mad at Hermione at times :) ...but it's because, like Harry, I see rules as suggestions that may or may not be a good thing.

I adore Fred and George.

Thought Ginny was coming along nicely as a smart-ass in the style of Fred and George - but with a bite. Ginny can be mean.

I see Harry maturing

Think Percy is also working for the order by behaving like an ass?


I cried over D.(will miss him - but he had to go for Harry to fully face his reality, I think)

I love Lupin....you're absolutely right about him...sad grace - and noble. Just plain noble.

Hey! Remember what D said about Pettigrew? That he owed Harry? Maybe that plays into book 7 as well.

Just a thought.

Thank you, btw! Your threads on Potter have been wonderful!!!!!

[XemaSab]

63. Thanks!

Yeah, Pettigrew... that's going to be an interesting one... wonder what he knows about Snape.

So much to consider...

[malmapus]

66. Sirius is / was my favorite

I kinda like "Mad Eye" Moody too. Just the way he doesn't trust anyone or anything lol. If I was an auror I think I'd have a flask of my own too :)

[XemaSab]

69. One of my favorite details in the series

is when he's in Umbridge's office and she hands him the tea, then he sees the kittens on the wall and is reminded of mad-eye....

[Solly Mack]

70. I liked BC Jr as Moody better than the actual Moody

Probably because he turned Malfoy into a ferret, then used him to punctuate his words by bouncing him off the floor.

Though I can see the "real" Moody doing that as well.

No kidding! My own flask, my own plate - my own everything. lol!

[XemaSab]

73. Also, BC Jr

Had the balls to teach them about the unforgivable curses... sounds like fake-moody's class was a better DADA class than most of the other teachers.

I thought this book was sadly lacking in DADA scenes... the dude finally gets DADA and he uses the opportunity to pile on the homework??

[Solly Mack]

74. Yeah, but when he subbed for DADA he also gave homework

so maybe that's his style for teaching it - especially if so much of it can't be practical anyway

Course, he gave the homework on werewolves when he subbed for Lupin just to be mean and hateful. :)


I think maybe the DADA class wasn't too important this time around because the Potion aspect (HBP's textbook) angle was the biggie...

Harry was learning the "dark arts" from his potion book.(Sorta)

You know how Snape is redeemed at the end of each book? So everyone gets set up to find the redemption angle this time around...but (what if) book 7 rolls around there isn't one? Just a thought...

Truthfully, I'll be kinda disappointed if Snape is proven loyal to D since it would be so predictable...

D would have to know Harry would go after Snape with everything he had...and that the OoP would also go after him. So D repays loyalty with certain death?

Also, Sirius has already played the innocent though thought guilty outcast...would JKR do it again?

So many ways this could go....just pondering aloud.

[XemaSab]

76. Interesting points

At first I was sure Snape was totally evil, but now I think it's something that's open to question.

After Book 5 Harry and Snape had so much unfinished business, that I would someday like to see them talk about before Harry winds up killing Snape.

[WhollyHeretic]

78. I can see Snape being on the good size but one thing has stuck out

for me. When he was teaching Harry Occlumency(sp?) he kept telling Harry to get rid of his emotions but the only time Harry was able to stop the intrusion was when he was very angry. The whole thing just made Harry more vulnerable, if that was part of the process I don't think Dumbledore would have had him learn it right then.