Political affiliations of the artist do not impact the quality of the art.

[progmom]

If I don't like Tom Cruise's acting and you tell me he's a Dem....well...I still don't like his acting.

And if I think Loretta Lynn is talented and you tell me she donated to a Republican...well...I'll still like her music.


fwiw - I am totally ambivalent about Tom Cruise's acting. I'm just trying to make a point.


:bounce:

[WeRQ4U]

1. Well Put

If you believe otherwise, you're being purchased.

[fudge stripe cookays]

2. Sorry.

Purchased by who?

I like who I want to like. But I refuse to put money in the pockets of assholes like Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper, Kelsey Grammer, James Woods, or Schwarzenegger. If I want to hear "Stranglehold" (for the 87 billionth f'in time I might add--thanks Clear Channel), I'll listen for it on the radio.

They don't need any of my money to help them be more assholes than they already are.

FSC

[progmom]

3. I agree on a level

But then i would never be able to enjoy a Miles Davis record. Talk about assholes. He was even an asshole to my face.

[Zuni]

28. or Chuck Berry

a truly disgusting pervert and all around nasty SOB....but he was a genius and I absolutely love some of his tracks. When I hear Maybellene, No Particular Place to Go or Around and Around, I don't think about his notorious "extraciricular activities", I listen to his music.

[48pan]

84. Chuck invented Rock and Roll.

He is forgiven.

[chaska]

38. Progmom!!! Tell us the Miles story!!! EOM

[Starbucks Anarchist]

76. You met Miles Davis?

[progmom]

80. yup

:hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

85. Details, please.

I'm a huge Miles fan. I know he wasn't the greatest person to his fans, mainly based on his comments regarding that in his autobiography, but I have got to hear your story.

By the way, I've read your many comments regarding your musical preferences. You have great taste.

:hi:

[progmom]

87. details here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3682177

[Starbucks Anarchist]

88. Awesome!

Normally, I'd be turned off by such behavior from a celebrity (or anyone else), but it was Miles, after all.

[WeRQ4U]

7. You missed my point.

If you change your mind as to who you like and dont' like, based on whether they've given money to a certain political organization, then you've been purchased.

For isntance, I think Tom Cruise is about 3 pieces short of a full socket set, and I can't stand much of anything he does or says. But many people on this board think that I should temper my feelings simply because TC donated to Al Gore. And I say "Fuck that" he's still a dick.

[fudge stripe cookays]

46. I didn't miss anything. And I'm not "many people."

I don't care about Tom Cruise one way or another. It's immaterial to me if he gave to Gore. It's nice that he did, but it doesn't make me like him any more or any less.

I admire Natalie Maines for speaking her mind. but I have still never bought a Dixie Chicks CD because I don't enjoy listening to their music.

HOWEVER....for people who are so outspoken about hating liberals, such as the ones I mentioned, I will NOT put money in their pocket that may end up getting donated to the people who are trying to destroy my way of life and my country.

I'll give people the benefit of the doubt until I find out otherwise. The minute I find out about money they've given to Repugs (and it's usually quite a bit), I just assume they don't need my dirty liberal dollars, and stop buying.

[I Have A Dream]

67. I think that everyone has to make that decision for themselves.

I'm with you. That's why I recently bought a Mac rather than a Dell (even though the Dell would have been cheaper), and I switched from State Farm to Progressive for insurance.

Part of why I did these things is because they made me feel good. However, I understand that lots of other people don't see the need to do this.

[Deja Q]

11. I must agree; they do the same unto us.

[ret5hd]

4. totally true, but...

if you think Loretta Lynn is talented and I tell you she donates regularly to republicans and you still purchase her albums or attend her concerts...you're still assisting someone who is trying to destroy us. (assuming i know what i am talking about)

[Catholic Sensation]

6. someone's being overly dramatic

"destroy us" :eyes:

[progmom]

12. I think you might be over-dramatizing a bit

;)

I can't carry my political allegiances that far. Maybe this makes me a bad liberal. Art is important to me. I want to be able to appreciate it for what it is.


Art that is political in nature is a different thing entirely, of course.

[ret5hd]

31. maybe, maybe...

but i will say that my wife and i are members (granted, at the lowest available level) to 2 museums (a modern art museum and a classical art museum...and both are utilized to their maximum), we have a 300+ cd collection (value varies depending on taste), etc etc etc...so i can say that art is important to me also.

BUT, if any of these organizations or artists revealed themselves to me as RW'ers, they would cease to get my money.

I realise that no one can be a 100%'er...i don't know where my grocer donates to (fiesta), i don't know the political affiliation of guy i bought my car from, etc...but i do know this...

when we go to buy paint...we buy from a mom 'n pop shop where i asked about their affiliations
when we go to buy lumber, we go to lowe's, which gives majority to dems
when we go to buy fast food...i go to sonic, which gives majority to dems (wife's a vegetarian, so she doesn't go to sonic)
when we watch TV... we don't watch bush*, fox, "reality shows" (we happen to also be a nielson family)

i don't know...i don't want to sound preachy and despise anyone that sounds condescending...but our dollars are the SECOND most effective vote we have.

[fudge stripe cookays]

47. I totally agree with you, ret.

:D

FSC

[ret5hd]

51. thnx (nt)

[Zuni]

23. yeah, the change she made off of Progmom

got George Bush elected :eyes:

[ret5hd]

32. read #31...it's just how i feel, that's all.

[blondeatlast]

5. Gotta agree. fortunately, an awful lot of performers whom I just couldn't

give a damn about happen to be RWers, but there's an awful lot who are LWers, too.

[redqueen]

8. I hear ya...

However, somehow once I know they support policies that are contrary to what I believe would help most people, that colors my perception of their work... does that make sense?

[progmom]

14. yes - and i try to fight that

it's easier in music than it is in film. when i see James Woods' smirking face i just want to haul off and :spank:

[tigereye]

82. see I like James Wood's acting

I think he is very skilled. So I can file his views away and still enjoy his craft. And for music, writing, poetry, etc. sometimes you just have to have that sense of separation. Otherwise the deconstructionists win. ;)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. BUT...

...I may decide not to spend my money on it based on them.

[progmom]

13. your call

i was mostly referencing people get upset when you have a negative opinion about an artist who happens to be a Dem.

[redqueen]

16. Well that's just ridiculous.

What... we're supposed to like all Dem artists' stuff, just because they're Dems?

[progmom]

17. that appears to be the opinion of some on DU

:shrug:

[MrSandman]

45. Isn't that what the RW did to...

The Dixie Chicks, most notably.

It is arguable about the loss of their music, but what about the loss of political discourse from artists in general?

[I Have A Dream]

74. I think that it's more like me buying the Dixie Chicks' album because...

they're against Bush. (I don't know about all of them, but Natalie certainly is.) I don't like their music much.

Actually, I think that I did it mostly because they seemed to be losing so much money because they had the courage to speak out in spite of the fact that most of their fans were strong Bush supporters. Therefore, it's not exactly the same thing, but it's similar. (Giving money to an artist that I don't really much like just because of their political affiliation.)

[tjdee]

10. I think it does.

I will see a Mel Gibson film or a Bruce Willis film if it looks good. There are a few conservatives with talent (Jimmy Stewart) but IMO a career in theater/art/music usually requires a liberal mindset to start with. Conservatives, IMO, can be good with technical aspects of a thing, but rarely do they exhibit the creativity, energy, and innovation that liberals do.

I'm biased, though, LOL. And of course that isn't a factor where there are a lot of conservatives, such as the country music industry.

I don't think I've ever *really* liked an actor/musician who was a conservative. I'm totally sure Shah Rukh Khan is a liberal Indian, LOL!

[I Have A Dream]

75. Interesting what you say about the technical aspects.

I work with engineers. Almost all of them are strong B* supporters, which surprised me because they're all so intelligent. Do you think that what you said has something to do with it? (I'm always amazed that smart people are able to find things that they appreciate in B*.)

[tjdee]

89. Hmm....not sure, LOL.

But now that I'm thinking about it, it's possible. Most of the 'technical' people I know (from my own experience, the physics/chemistry side of science and the math people I know) are indeed conservatives/Republicans...it'd be interesting to see whether any DUers in those fields observe that.

I do remember a friend of mine being frustrated that all his accounting peers were Dole people (this is going back a ways, LOL).

[I Have A Dream]

90. I'm a programmer, and I'm a liberal.

Some of my fellow programmers at work aren't as conservative as the engineers, but some are.

I'd understand the engineers being conservative. What I don't get is why it doesn't bother them to support such a non-exceptional person like B*. They're so intelligent, and he's just so slightly below average, in my opinion. I guess I expect wisdom and common sense to go along with intelligence. Alas, this is not usually the case! :)

[grace0418]

15. I think it depends on the subject matter of their art.

I would agree with your statement in most cases, but not all. If I really liked a musician for his amazing lyrics about peace and equality and taking care of the earth, I would be affected if I found out that musician was a Republican. It would cheapen it for me.

[ForrestGump]

91. John Lennon was a member of the National Front and John Birch Society

Just kidding. :P

[Eric J in MN]

18. It may not affect the quality, but it does affect the content.

The woman who directed "Triumph of the Will" for Hitler was talented, but she put her talent where she shouldn't have.

[LanternWaste]

19. Too true, too true

Too true, too true. As a pal told me some time back,
"you have to separate the art from the artist or you'll never enjoy art" and I believe him to be absolutely correct.

Gore Vidal is too far left for me (I disagree with him more often than not) and W.F. Buckley too far right for me(I disagree with him more often than not, also), but I enjoy reading their works because both seem (to me) to be very gifted word-smiths, regardless of their politics.

There are bands whose politics rub me the wrong way, but I still dig their music; and to be honest, I have enjoyed the majority of Mel Gibson's films (his crazy-cop opposite Danny Glover movies and Braveheart (or as I call it, "Henry the Fifth Light") notwithstanding).

I completely agree with you.

And as an aside, I think this is the first time I responded to one of your posts directly (I may have gotten caught up in a thread or two you started), so let me take a moment to say, "Hey! How are ya? Enjoy your posts-- you have a silly streak I really like!"

:hi:

[progmom]

21. hey...uh...thanks!

:blush:

[Zuni]

20. personally, I think celebrity's personal beliefs

like politics and religion are none of our business. I hate when talk shows bring on someone like Joe Piscopo for example (just a random celebrity I know little about) and ask him about his politics or his religious beliefs.

And to your point---Clint Eastwood is apparently a Republican, but I could care less because I think he is a great actor and director and I enjoy many of his films

[ForrestGump]

33. Nope, Clint's an independent

More Libertarian than anything. Ditto Kurt Russell and a few others who've been wrongly classed as Republicans.

[hfojvt]

56. oftentimes libertarian is just

the right wing of the Republican party. Worse than Republicans. David Koch was once a libertarian candidate, then he started making the Republican party more libertarian. Libertarians are not necessarily less odious than Republicans.

[Zomby Woof]

59. If this helps

Eastwood is an independent who said in an interview last year: "I never thought of myself as a conservative. But I am no ultra-leftist either."

I can hang with that. :-) (I happen to love most of Eastwood's films and actor and director)

[Zensea]

22. Louis-Ferdinand Celine, Ezra Pound, T.S. Eliot for example

This is a very old debate and has points on both sides that are worth considering.

[Beware the Beast Man]

24. Appeal to me is first, political affiliation is second.

I can't say I'm into many artists that have a RW slant in the first place, but there are a slew of Democratic celebs I cannot stand, and it has little or nothing to do with politics.

[sundog]

25. then again, art is a subjective thing...

therefore political affiliation may alter how i perceive it, therefore the quality is impacted

[progmom]

26. good point

:hi:

[sundog]

30. in other words, art cannot exist inside rigid parameters...

therefore one person's trash is another person's gold & vice versa

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

27. Perhaps not quality

But I think (at least in the visual arts) content is severely impacted based on one's political affiliations. Tell me that a visual artist of conservative leaning values will ever produce something creative and outside the box that I will like... I'll laugh in your face. There are conservative artists who technically paint/draw/sculpt/etc very well, skill wise... but they're lacking in content. I think along the same lines for musicians. If I don't like the content of the music, it doesn't matter how technically wonderful they are.

I think acting is different because the actor is not portraying their own feelings/actions. They're portraying the feelings of their character. IMHO, the dislike/like thing with actors should have more to do with, as you say, ability and talent rather than with their political affiliations.

:shrug:

[FuzzySlippers]

29. Case in point....Thomas Kinkade.

Right wing politics, but such purty pictures.

:hide:

[ret5hd]

36. oh, you better hide...that is BAD!

[FuzzySlippers]

40. Whadya mean? You don't find this inspirational?

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

42. omg make it stop

:scared: my eyes are bleeding!

[FuzzySlippers]

53. Don't you recognize great art when you see it?

Geesh. What a philistine.

[Kipepeo]

54. I find Thomas Kinkade

to be hugely super boring.

:shrug:

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

55. Psst, Kipepeo

I think the OP is being sarcastic :)

[Kipepeo]

58. ah, i thought it a bit weird

to think that kinkade might have enthusiasts. :)

[grace0418]

57. Ah yes, the Kenny G of art.

GACK!

[Telly Savalas]

63. Perfect description of the man's work.

:rofl:

[grace0418]

65. Why thank you. It's what I think every time I see that

man's work, at least until my eyes start bleeding.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

70. I think I've said that before!

HAHA. Good thing other people see the comparison.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

41. Ruh roh, where's Rabrrrrr when you need him?

:D

[tk2kewl]

34. It may not effect the quality of the art...

but I won't support an artist that supports war criminals.

I am more than willing to forgo quality fascist art, if there is such a thing

[ForrestGump]

77. Of course there's fascist art. Some of it very prescient, too. I mean,

look at this -- it's totally Osama!

[KFC]

35. Same goes for athletes

If I boycotted freeper athletes, I couldn't watch a single professional sport.

[fudge stripe cookays]

49. It's much easier for me.

I hate professional sports.

FSC

[chaska]

37. What would you say about this person's beliefs?

[ForrestGump]

78. I'd express surprise that Stephen King is so multitalented

And I'd just hope against hope that I can sleep tonight after seeing that.

[chaska]

39. Progmom!!! Tell us the Miles story!!! EOM

[leftofthedial]

43. except to the extent their politics inform their art

compare Steve Earle and Lee Greenwood.

[progmom]

71. agreed - completely

:hi:

[democracyindanger]

44. You clearly are not familiar with the oeuvre of Kirk Cameron.

[merh]

48. Wrong forum.

Isn't this a General Discussion thread!

:hide:

[Misunderestimator]

50. Truly!

:rofl: I was gonna say that too!

[merh]

52. Great minds and all of that!

:hi:

[progmom]

61. i don't want to be accused of terrible things again

x(

[merh]

66. Sorry that happened.

I know exactly how you feel. :hug:

[Misunderestimator]

68. ...

[Misunderestimator]

60. Technically, you're right, it doesn't affect the "quality" of the art.

But it does affect whether I personally support someone's art by buying tickets to the films they are in, etc. For example, if the person is a known bigot (Mel Gibson), or a known child molester (the director of "Powder"), I will not support the work they do.

Similarly, if someone is publicly supporting George Bush and personally making this world a much worse place by doing so, they won't get my support... and it DOES color my OPINION about the quality of their art. So, since art is subjective... it follows that it also changes the quality of their art.

[progmom]

69. It's funny - I was thinking of the other perspective when I wrote my post.

I am tired of being told it's not ok to criticize an actor or a musician because they support the Democratic Party. The Loretta Lynn part was just thrown in there for balance. I have never bought anything with her name on it, though I did meet her once (and she was lovely and kind).

My long-winded way of saying that I don't disagree with you, for the most part.

How do you feel about Wagner?

[Misunderestimator]

72. That's a good question...

I suppose if I had been living at the time and was aware of his reported anti-semitism, I probably would hate it. Instead, it DOES color how I perceive the music, changing the quality for me. Doesn't make the music, which is brilliant, suddenly bad, but it does change how I personally perceive it.

I do agree with you that it's silly to defend artists against valid criticisms simply because of their party affiliation.

[SOteric]

62. I've been saying similar things for quite some time.

Everything in balance and context, of course; but yeah if I loved someone's books, music, movies before knowing they gave money to Dubya, I'll probably still enjoy their books, music and movies.

I can certainly think of some exceptions. If an artist's works are borderline racist and that person admits to being a part of the KKK, I can't find myself admiring them further on any level, and it does affect my opinion of their artwork.

And I admit, although it's not very enlightened of me, I don't carry the same flag of tolerance for sports figures. Probably because I haven't quite the same appreciation of sports that I do for the arts. This is perhaps one of the reasons I hope to never find out what Ichiro thinks of American politics.

[Zomby Woof]

64. Ichiro better worry about his BAT

And not even HAVE an opinion of American politics. x(

[Spider Jerusalem]

73. Some people seem to carry the idea of "political loyalty" to extremes.

And the idea that one should boycott the work of an artist because one disagrees with their political views (which in most cases have nothing to do with their art, skill, and talent or lack thereof) is a bit petty, if you ask me, not to mention that it's a weak form of the sort of mindset that eventually leads to things like blacklists (Hollywood, early '50's. Need I say more?).

[stanwyck]

79. Although I agree with you,

and I know you are 100% correct, I still can't truly enjoy the work of someone I know is a wingnut. I wish I could. These days, it's just too important. We're facing the destruction of our country. The environment. Women's rights. The war in Iraq. Unemployment. Health Care. Separation of church and state. So when I find out an artist is cozy with the politicos who expouse views which are anathema to me, I am repulsed. To the extent I can no longer truly appreciate their work.
I realize this is my problem. And I would hope that it doesn't lead to the blacklisting mindset. I'd hate to become that which I despise.

[Spider Jerusalem]

83. Well, that's your choice...

but the only point where I become bothered is if an artist's work is a reflection of a worldview I find distasteful. (oddly enough, this is one of my problems with Tolkein; all his talk about "the decline of the race" through "weakening of the blood" and so on strikes a modern sensibility as a little off).

[DrGonzoLives]

81. Lovecraft was a racist

Yet I like his stories.

So, yeah, I agree.

[sir_captain]

86. I only agree with you to a degree

It is equally a mistake to completely divorce an artist from his or her politics--one needs to view art within its proper context. Perhaps the best example of this is Leni Riefenstahl, the Nazi propagandist. She is obviously an unbelievably talented filmmaker and I can appreciate, say, Triumph of the Will on that level. But to ignore the political climate in which it was made, and its obvious purpose, would be ridiculous.

[Kickin_Donkey]

92. I actually do think an artist's political orientation ...

affects the quality of their art. An artist's politics, philosophy, world view, etc. inform the content of their art and therefore the quality of that piece of art as I subjectively observe it.

One of the funniest and most salient comments that Bartcop ever made was that Republican actors (Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bo Derek, Fred Thompson, etc.) are always B movie actors without range or depth because they have no soul or empathy and therefore can't portray anything beyond themselves. (Bartcop said it a lot funnier than I just paraphrased it, and it was a light-bulb moment for me).

It's not cut and dried, though. I think Mel Gibson was brilliant in "Year of Living Dangerously." And I don't particularly care for Bruce Springsteen's music even though he's a liberal. But when there is an artist whose work I enjoy and whose politics I agree with, such as Martin Sheen or Midnight Oil -- they are gods.

But on the whole, I do think there is SOME relationship between an artist's politics and their work, both in the quality of that work and in my opinion of the work and the artist as a person.