most recently, when i e-mailed the religious editor of a local newspaper

[flordehinojos]

about an article he'd written about sprawling churches in the area, that, i said, mega churches = mega greed, he wrote back saying, "I wonder if you’ve ever visited Christ Fellowship before judging it?" and he went ahead to include its website.

Part of my reply to him without having visited the website he pointed me to was,

Along the way my religious believes were also influenced by the progressive thoughts of a few religious of the order of St. Philip Neri and by one, or two progessive priests, whose view of Christ is quite different from that held by the far right within the Catholic Church
I do not even attend my own church because GOD HAS BEEN SOLD TO THE PHARISEES AND HE HAS BEEN PAID AND BOUGHT FOR BY BUSH AND HIS NEOCONS AND FASCIST GOONS.

all of this christiniaty that is in vogue today ... is nothing more than lots of histrionics and hysterical fascism.

i wouldn't buy the message of christ being put out there today for anything in this world...churches, synagogues and fellowships are full of false prophets ...

God is not hate. God is not vengeful. God does not kill.

PEACE ARE NOT BOMBS.

AND GOD ALLOWS FOR THE INDIVIDUAL TO HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM ... NOT ONE MANDATED BY THE STATE, NOT ONE MANDATED BY JUDGES, NOT ONE MANDATED BY INSANE PRESIDENTS, WAR MONGERS OR DICTATORS ... {and not one dictated by fanatic preachers, ministers, priests, rabbis}

GOD AS I KNOW HIM IS NOT ONE WHO HATES HUMAN BEINGS and not one who hates life.

Fascism is not love. DICTATORSHIP IS NOT LOVE. INSERTING ONE SELF IN OTHER PEOPLE'S LIFE STYLE, DEATH AND DYING DECISIONS, MORALS ETC... IS NOT CHRISTIAN LOVE ...

{George and}JEB BUSH and {their} bought and paid for faith based christian followers DO NO MORE KNOW CHRIST than pagans at the door of a pagan temple {know Christ}.

[Clintmax]

1. Good for you!

Here, here! *raises hand*

[flordehinojos]

2. ...

:-) Thanks ... (I also noticed the florida map in your avatar which is were i am).:patriot:

[morningglory]

3. I grew up with apostolic, tongue-talking, fundamentalists, and

found that 99.9% of them are judgemental, control freaks who were damaged as children by tongue-talking, holy roller parents. The other .1% have truly serene spirituality and understanding shining out of their beautiful faces, just like the Dalai Lama, or Pope John Paul, or, in my opinion, Billy Graham. I have encountered exactly 2 of this kind in my 59 years. Recently, I was astonished to find myself sitting behind a table full of the Neo-*xtians, limpball-listening, dittohead freepers, of the new kind of Repuglican fundamentalists. All they talked about was money, what they owned, how well they had done, how God had blessed them with beautiful homes, big gas-guzzling obscene trucks, etc. And they did not want to pay a cent in taxes. They were extremely unkind, ignorant, greedy repuglicans. Also, I went to see Elizabeth Edwards and one of the good ones (evangelical) showed up to support a Democratic candidate. I praised the Lord for showing me one that day. There is also Bill Moyers, one of the good kind of Baptists. Pardon me for my nasty tone, but the monkey faced boy king has made me insane. I also represent Florida, NorthWest Fla. the reddest area.

[flordehinojos]

4. i think so many of us have lost our minds on account of the monkey faced

boy king ... and your post is beautiful. thank you for it.

[jody]

5. How do you know "God is not hate. God is not vengeful. God does not kill."

Does God talk to you?

[flordehinojos]

6. no. God does not talk to me. Does he talk to you?

[jody]

8. My point is that no one knows what God does or does not like or do,

assuming there is a God.

If one claims to be a Christian, they have a problem reconciling the vengeful God of the Old Testament with the God of love taught by Jesus in the New Testament.

Many people agree with the basic concept taught by Jesus including many agnostics and atheists, "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Mat 7:12.

Most of the world's religions have that basic Golden Rule in their holy scripture and it also shows up in the writings of prominent agnostics and atheists. Unfortunately, to many people who profess to be religious often fail to follow the most basic principle of their faith and the world suffers.
:hi:

[greekspeak]

7. How bout saving your ire for the hatemongering Christians the OP discusses

And not attacking your allies. That would be nice. Enjoy having Christians around who fight against hate.

Signed-A Florida Atheist

[Heidi]

9. Since when do religion editors get to engage in debate

with readers via email? I was a journalist for 20 years and have never heard of any newspaper allowing staff to engage in heated debate via email and/or directing readers to religious webistes. I think the editor is way out of line.

[flordehinojos]

11. do you think he even knows it?

i wonder whether he does or not ... (without knowing what this church that he pointed me to is about, i am about to believe that he may have bought the christofascist bush line).

[Heidi]

13. Well, one way of finding out . . .

is to FWD his correspondence to his ME and CC it to the publisher. I'm not trying to be a b!tch here. I know all too well how difficult it is to be an editor, but I just find his handling of the situation way over the line.

[flordehinojos]

14. what is, "ME"...I know CC is Carbon Copy,but I don't know what, 'ME" is.

and I am not sure that I would do it (the way i dealt with it was by sending him that e-mail a part of which is the lead for this post) ... but I am curious as to what "ME" is. He has not answered this second e-mail. maybe something got through to him. do you think? i would hope so, anyhow.

[Heidi]

15. Managing Editor.

I just think someone has probably broached newsroom protocol, and the boss ought to be privy to that information. ;)

[flordehinojos]

17. thanks ...

it is good to know what "ME" means. But you know, (and this is hard to say) i think the Managing Editor and the Publisher and many of those who write for this particular newspaper are in the bush right wing column and probably would not do very much about it...and probably that is why this religion editor felt that he could do what he did. (and for my part, if i wrote something which sort of shook the guy from the pedestal that he has placed himself and/or this christofascist religion on, i feel i did something worthwhile).

[Heidi]

18. Stick to your guns.

You're right, they're wrong, flordehinojos. If you're an advertiser with that newspaper, or even a buyer of classified ads, or a subscriber, they'll care when you complain. You may not change what may be standard behavior there, but you'll make 'em think. Thanks for not backing down from what you believe (or disbelieve). :hi:

[flordehinojos]

19. heidi,

i just noticed your sig line ... and i love it (in some ways it describes how i think of myself and what my father and brother have always said of me--i am, in their estimation, the rebel in the family because i've never bought the family malarky.and ... i will keep in mind what you say about, "If you're an advertiser with that newspaper, or even a buyer of classified ads, or a subscriber, they'll care when you complain." i may use it next time around, or if the guy decides to reply to that second e-mail i had sent him yesterday.

i hear you loud and clear!

:patriot: :)

[Bridget Burke]

10. Not all of the mega-churches are political.

Some of them are more into self-realization, with feel-good messages rather than fire & brimstone.

Yes, they may be too rich. They may not be your style--they aren't mine. But don't assume they are all alike.

[flordehinojos]

12. interesting point ...

but sometimes the feel good messages while wonderful can be politically motivated...sadly so... however, when it is not, it is good to listen to.

[progmom]

16. i'd be curious to see what the church he referenced is all about

:hi:

[flordehinojos]

20. i've not followed the link that he included in the e-mail.

:)

[I Know How To Do it]

21. People don't watch a little Church anymore. They want a Spiritual Wal-Mart

A Church-Mart if you will.

A Church that offers Day-Care, School , Field Trips, Silly Craft classes, Shopping trips for the elderly, and some actual Church like stuff on Sundays. You know, just enough to keep Federal Dollars from coming in.

It's a Wal-Mart model and they are crushing little Churches that can't provide Wal-Mart Services.

[flordehinojos]

22. "enough to keep FEDERAL DOLLARS from COMING IN?" OR,

big and with enough services to keep THE FEDERAL DOLLARS COMING IN?

it seems these days people are after lots of THOSE FAITH BAIT, err, i mean, BASED FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT THE BUSHES ARE OFFERING IN EXCHANGE FOR SOME PRIVATE GROUPS TAKING OVER CERTAIN GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS AND RESPONSIBILITIES like DAY CARES (o, and what is the name of the pre-school program that has almost been eradictated by the bushes...my memory is locked right now and i can't recall, o, yes, I can, HEAD START PROGRAM) they want to give far far fewer dollars to churches which will take up the slack for their eradicating the MASSIVE FEDERAL DOLLARS TO HEAD START PROGRAMS, SOCIAL SERVICES, ETC... and they are just using churches and religious groups to their narcissistic selfish end.

[I Know How To Do it]

23. Yeah, that was a typo. It seems there are only a handful of

Ministers, Preachers, or what have you that understand that taking federal money is a dangerous proposition. They become a slave to the Money given to them to the point where federal policy dictates Church policy to continue receiving funding.

[flordehinojos]

24. right on! they are selling their souls tothe devil.