Serial Killers and the Pacific Northwest

[SOteric]

Ted Bundy
Kenneth Bianchi
Westley Allan Dodd
Robert Yates
Gary Ridgeway
Robert Pickton


Could there be something inherent in the region, - the water, - the weather, - the regional social behaviours that actually breeds or encourages serial killers?

It's an older article but much in the news hereabouts:

http://www.missingpeople.net/spate_of_charges_cause_experts-may_18,_2002.htm

"SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - For decades, women disappeared from the streets of the Pacific Northwest's largest cities. Fifty are gone from downtown Vancouver, B.C., about the same number from Seattle and its suburbs, and nearly a dozen from the streets of Spokane. Serial killers, some authorities said, were among us. In the past 22 months, the region has seen arrests in three long-standing, but separate, investigations.

Robert L. Yates Jr., of Spokane, Gary Leon Ridgway of Auburn and Robert Pickton of Port Coquitlam, B.C., just east of Vancouver, all face charges in disappearances that perplexed authorities for years.

It's probably just a coincidence that the three arrests came so close together, experts have said.

more...

[Lisa]

1. I dunno -- one would think the weather would encourage more "mass" killers

A surprising number of people up here are ready to just snap after 5 months of rain and overcast skies!

[SOteric]

6. Really!

And you'd think they'd just move back to California. ;-)

[Nailzberg]

2. But we had John Wayne Gacy and Richard Speck

That ain't small potatoes. Gotta stick up for Chi-town, gotta represent!

[kanrok]

26. Ya know

I'm a Chicagoan through and through, and I'm loathe to give credit to Wisconsin under any circumstances. But, give them their due as well, Jeffrey Dahmer and Ed Gein? They're two of the top serial killers. Speck was a mass murderer, so he, technically doesn't count. Gacy is in the top 5, though.

[Loonman]

3. 2 reasons

1) it rains all the damn time

2) Courtney Love

[soleft]

4. How about Gov. program to hand out serotin enhancement lamps?

[jono]

5. I think it must be the weather.

I've been convinced for some time that there's some element of nature that breeds serial killers in this area. Weather's the best I can come up with.

[SOteric]

7. I've considered that too.

I end up getting stuck on the fact that the weather here is so very much like the weather in many other parts of the world. The UK, Central Europe, New Zealand...

Then I start wondering if it's some compound mixture of the climate and the densely wooded environment. It's easy to be private in this area of the world. It's easy to keep secrets. It's growing less and less possible, but still.

Then of course, there's New Zealand again.

I wonder how they're fixed for serial murderers.

[jono]

8. Good point

about similar weather in other parts of the world. Perhaps it's a combination of the weather, the wooded environment, and regional social behaviors as you mentioned in your original post. I think a lot of people here have the whole passive-aggressive thing down pat.

edited for silly typo

[SOteric]

10. Also a good point,

but I'm not certain I'd go so far as to say that Passive Agreesive behviour was limited in any way to this region.

What I do think is different in this region is a kind of coolish, standoffishness.

I've heard it said, and I think it may be true, that if you didn't go to school here, it'll take you at least a year to even meet, much less to know some friends well enough to be invited to backyard BBQs.

A man I dated for a while was from New York. His observation was that Seattlites were polite, but they were not very friendly. Whereas in New York, people were friendly, but they were not very polite.

[jono]

15. That's it!!

"A kind of coolish, standoffishness."

You know what I'm talking about. It's this eerie thing that seems to affect most everyone who's been here for any length of time. It's always been hard for me to describe it to people who haven't experienced it, but I think "a kind of coolish, standoffishness" pretty much sums it up. I agree that passive-agressiveness is not limited to this area, but I often wonder if it's exacerbated by the standoffishness.

[woofless]

33. We have had the opposite experience.

Moved up here East of Bellingham in June and have met nothing but very friendly and inclusive people. Far different from MO where I lived for 23 years. (They don't call it the 'Show Me' state for nothing.) Off the subject, I know but just had to stand up for all the nice folks we have met here in the hills.

[jono]

38. Give it a year.

There are LOTS of wonderful people in this area, but if you just moved here in June, you haven't lived through a full rainy season yet.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

46. My Observation Too-I Thought People Were Very Polite in Seattle

but reserved.

In the Northeast we're rude as hell but friendly.

[HuckleB]

47. Huh?

Standoffishness? Sorry, but I've found people to be far more open and welcoming in the northwest than in any other part of the nation.

[TXlib]

11. New Zealanders have lots of sheep to shag

Hence, no serial killers.

[SOteric]

14. Wait...

Lemme bookmark this thread so I can reference it when the Kiwi's show up to get Medieval on your ass. :7

[TXlib]

17. The only asses on which the Kiwis ever get medieval

are those of the sheep.

P.S. -- I'm heartbroken, SOteric. You used an apostrophe to pluralise. :(

[SOteric]

19. Life is filled with disappointments.

:shrug:

[TXlib]

27. But SOteric's grammar should never be one of them.

:spank:

[SOteric]

32. I don't particularly care about the small typos,

occasional mis-parsings, a word left out in haste. I don't have much use for people who think that those things are somehow earth-shatteringly important.

The overall application of my grammar and vocabulary is exemplary. My intent is clear. I am in no way at sea when it comes to expressing even the most abstract concepts with competent use of the English language.

This is a forum in which casual communication is the standard.

Anything else is just so much 'control issue.'

[TXlib]

35. Hey baby

I like them but-tocks!

*slappity slap*

I'm just yanking your chain.

Your posts are always so grammatically clean, seeing the tiniest flaw is about as strange as discovering Kiwis really don't shag sheep.

[buddhamama]

9. parents, location...?

there are conservative areas of the Pacific Northwest...hmmm.

the weather is probably a factor. it would be for me :-)

good question.

be careful,SOteric.

[SOteric]

12. Yes, there are conservatives hereabouts

But in smaller numbers, ratio-wise than the liberals and progressives. I can't speak with any knowledge on the politics of their parentage, but statistically speaking only one of those men, Yates, came from an area known to be politically conservative.

Thanks, buddhamama! Not to worry, - I've got good people looking out for me! :hi: Good to see you again.

[buddhamama]

28. must be the weather

or maybe,have you considered drugs?

drugs and the weather might be the combo.

good to see you too,SOteric!

and i am very glad to hear you've got good people looking out for you! :hi:

[TXlib]

13. Maybe you should move.

Maybe to Houston?

[GOPisEvil]

16. She's been there...I think Austin is a much more suitable location.

:P

In answer to the original question, I think that the Pacific Northwest by virtue of its climate and vastness breeds a particular brand of loneliness and despair that sometimes manifests itself in people who commit mass murder.

[SOteric]

22. Actually, my little deep-fried dumpling ....

Mass murder is a very different thing than is serial killing. That, we don't have so much.

[GOPisEvil]

24. Oh true...I confused the terms.

:spank:

Deep fried dumpling? I bet you say that to all the boys. ;-)

[SOteric]

18. Now why would I want to leave my nice little

liberal haven to move to a state that voluntarily elected * governor...?

[GOPisEvil]

20. To get away from the serial killers. Natch!

Oh wait...we have Henry Lee Lucas...nevermind. :7

[TXlib]

25. Because you just might

convince some Freepers they're wrong?

And failing that, Freeper-baiting is so much fun. I love making the vein in their foreheads bulge.

[SOteric]

29. Not for all of us.

I can't decide whether I think it's more like the 'teaching a pig to sing' typification or the 'parable of the 5 monkeys' problem.

[TXlib]

31. Oh, tell me the parable of the five monkeys, please!

*pulls up a pillow and sits*

[SOteric]

34. You don't know this one...? Okily dokily...

You take five monkeys living in a little enclosure. At the center of the enclosure is a small set of stairs which lead to a platform.

Periodically, at the top of the platform, suspended by a string is a banana. Sooner or later, one of the monkeys will trot up the stairs and grab the banana. As soon as he's got it in his hand, the other 4 monkeys are hosed rather abruptely with icy water. There is much squealing and conflagration.

After a few episodes of repeat behaviour, the monkeys begin to beat the crap out of any monkey who starts up the stairs toward the banana.

Slowly, one at a time, the monkeys are replaced with new, different monkeys. Each in turn is socialised to join in the frenzy and beat the crap out of any monkey who tries for the stairs.

What you end up with is 5 completely new monkeys who will beat the crap out of any one of them which braves the stairs, -but none which actually know why.

[TXlib]

36. Oh, yeah, I do know that one.

[BritishHuman]

43. Sounds a lot like freepers

Or my company.

[mitchum]

21. You forgot Jerry Brudos...

he was one of the first who was extensively interviewed by Ressler and Douglas. The term lust killer was coined for him.

Reasons for prevalence in Northwest:
weather
vastness of the geography
transient population
cultural "standoff-ishness"
shaky economic cycles

[slappypan]

23. Gein, Gacy, Dahmer ...

The Upper Midwest is pretty prolific too ... long dreary winters and a straight-laced culture of stiocism and "forced niceness" makes some people snap ...

[kanrok]

30. Forgot Larry Eylers

They attribute 25 killings to this piece of filth.

[Catshrink]

37. I lived in Seattle when Ted Bundy was active

Nearly all the girls who disappeared looked like me -- about 20, long brown hair, shortish. I was scared to freaking death.

[Amaya]

39. Maybe it's lack of sunlight

I lived there for 10 years. It does make a person a little nutty.

[Sequoia]

40. I used to live in Spokane

and it was the gloomiest city I've ever lived in. The state of Washington has the highest rate of suicide so I do think the weather has a lot to do with it because the sun only shines 15% of the time and even that might be a high percentage. However, Northen Cal seems to have a higher than average rate of child snatching but hopefull I'm wrong on that one. Getting back to the North West, it's pretty big and vast and easier to hide in maybe.

[HuckleB]

44. Nope.

The bit about suicide is a myth. Rates in the northwest ebb and flow, along with the rest of the country, but they are no higher than anywhere else over time. As for Spokane, you thought it was gloomy? Spokane has far more sunny days (260) than much of the United States. What are you talking about?

[Zomby Woof]

41. I had to move

It is easier to hide the bodies in the desert.

[SOteric]

42. *snarf*

Can you dig it...?

[HuckleB]

45. Where did these guys live?

If it's east of the mountains, then all this yak yak about gloomy doomy weather is out the window.