So should the NAACP accept banner ads for the KKK?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

I mean, the way some of you are responding to this notion of being offended by sexist products that actually promoted violence against women (i.e. The best way to a woman's heart is through her rib cage) I would think you'd immediately contact the NAACP and demand that they accept banner ads for the KKK....no wait...better yet...contact the DNC and demand they accept banner ads for the RNC....no wait...contact PLanned Parenthood and demand they accept banner ads for Focus on Family.

[Blue-Jay]

1. I dunno. How much are they willing to pay?

[Beware the Beast Man]

2. I'm too afraid to answer.

:scared:

[mykpart]

3. Well, if the NAACP did accept banner ads for the KKK,

they could overcharge the hell out of them, and later could claim, "The KKK supports the NAACP."

Wouldn't it be neat if Planned Parenthood could claim that they were supported by Focus on Family?

[jpgray]

4. Different things

I'd say this is more like if DU accepted an ad for the movie Trainspotting. The word "c#nt" is used dozens and dozens of times in that movie, and it's an accurate reflection of Welsh's prose as well as the Scottish slang the book was based on. People who are offended by the word can certainly be offended, but it would be silly to argue that the movie was created as part of Irvine Welsh's grand scheme to subjugate women. Guy just wanted to tell a story set in contemporary Scotland, and these people just want to sell t-shirts. Neither is as objectively offensive as a group whose explicit goal is bigotry or subjugation.

[progmom]

6. really?

i don't see that as a valid comparison at all. :shrug:

[HEyHEY]

10. SHUTUP!

;-)

[progmom]

15. FUCKOFF!

;)

[HEyHEY]

21. I knew a russian with that same last name

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Neither do I

The word cunt and a t-shirt that implies women should be stabbed are not even in the same ballpark, IMO.

[Beware the Beast Man]

17. Here's a little quote from Roseanne Barr, date unknown:

"The quickest way to a man's heart is through his ribcage."


Is it funny now?

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. No sorry not funny

I always liked this one from Roseanne:

My husband asked me if we had any potato chips left and I said 'Like you can't lift up the couch cushion and look yourself?'

See, that doesn't involve implying that anyone should be stabbed.

[HEyHEY]

29. That's open to interpretation

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. You don't have to laugh you know

You can always boycott Roseanne.

[HEyHEY]

44. I would but I find her blue collar comic stylings irresistible

Your phrase is perfect.. some others would be wise to heed it

[jpgray]

19. Ah, but in those two cases, intent is debatable

You can't safely argue that the t-shirt was made to cause violence towards women, or that Welsh's use of the word "cunt" was to harm women with a traditionally abusive pejorative. You can safely argue that the KKK exists to advocate bigotry towards non-whites and non-chirstians.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. Nope, not the same thing

One is a movie wherein the word is used in the context of the movie. The other is a site that makes money off ideas that are anathema to progressivism such as advocating violence against women. Not at all similar. I'd liken it more to Bev Harris, that great "progressive" selling CLinton Cigars back when that was more gratuitous.

[jpgray]

16. That's the whole point--the intent is debatable

You say the maker of the shirt aims to advocate violence towards women. Do you honestly believe that someone who buys the "way to a woman's heart" shirt really wants to do drastic surgical excavations on the abdomens of women? The t-shirt exists to make money, not to advance some ideological hatred of women. A good example of the same thing using the opposite gender roles would be those "clueless dad" ads that capitalize on female-to-male antagonisms by saying things like "it's so simple, even DAD can use it." Now, are these ads part of some vast misandrist agenda, or are they simply trying to sell a product? There's a difference between that and actively advocating bigotry and abuse like the KKK does.

Exploiting stereotypes and societal antagonisms is an age-old marketing ploy, and it's silly and irresponsible to claim these things are equivalent to organizations like the KKK.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Sorry again not a valid comparison

Those "clueless" dad ads actually glorify him since they reinforce that a man should not worry his himself doing household chores..

If there were a single shirt on the site with questionable or objectionable material, I might agree with you, but there was an entire section with numerous shirts all more than demeaning...again, let's go back to the test I gave you a while back, shall we?

The movie The Color Purple used the N word in the script. Are you going to say there's no difference between the KKK using the N word and Alice Walker using the word?

[jpgray]

42. The ad in question was for a computer.

It's the same exact mechanism, taken to an extreme--it's exploiting gender stereotypes to sell something. Take a black comedian who builds a joke around white people being unable to dance. Now, is this to be accepted as harmless humor based on mocking stereotypes, or is it a deadly serious all-out racial assault? Is Roseanne's original joke on which the "way to a woman's heart" shirt was based a serious advocation of violence towards men, or is it a harmless exploitation of stereotypes for humor's sake?

If some forms of stereotype exploitation are okay and some are not, is there some objective way to draw the line? No. Each person has their own limits and ideas about what is and what is not a purposed advocation of violence or bigotry--it's subjective. With the KKK, however, there IS objectively an all-out advocation of bigotry. The shirts are certainly offensive to me, but equating them with the KKK makes zero sense in my view.

[jobycom]

25. Trainspotting was a literary portrayal of a a mindset that was neither

promoting a point of view, nor trying to make money off that point of view. It was a story about people who cursed a lot.

A store that sells t-shirts saying "Hey Bitch!" "Nice Boobs" and "If I wanted to hear what you had to say I'd take my cock out of your mouth" is promoting an image I don't want to be associated with.

I'm not sure these shirts mean to promote sexism, but they do, and not in the context of a literary tale where the viewpoints of the characters are not being espoused, but in the context of expression, where the purchaser of the shirt is espousing the message. I don't see how anyone can argue that's appropriate for a web site devoted to the concept of equality for all.

The right thing was done. It's done. I'm going to fight some more over the DLC.

[jpgray]

46. How do you know that it wasn't promoting that view?

Maybe Irvine Welsh has a secret plan to promote misogyny through exposing the public to the word "cunt". That makes as much sense to me as saying the "way to a woman's heart" t-shirt is intended to make more women stab-wound victims.

[jobycom]

50. Cause I saw the movie.

And I understand the difference between creating a literary character and wearing a t-shirt to announce your views to the world. I wouldn't wear a shirt I disagreed with, would you? Yet, I'll watch the Godfather, even though I think the acts in the movie are horrible.

[sundog]

5. no. i think the upset tonight is legitimate.

some of those t-shirts were seriously sick... i think the bottom line (imo) of the continuation of this turmoil is people trying to minimize other peoples' strife to the level of cat aversion

[HEyHEY]

8. While I don't think that slogan is too cool

I'd like to hear some reasoning as to why threatening to cook a man's balls was such a gas in the lounge earlier.

By the way the reason I don't think it was too cool is obvious, but to add to that I heard 87 women in Canada were murdered by their spouses last year.. that's fucking staggering.

[Beware the Beast Man]

9. It was just a joke...

Right?

[HEyHEY]

11. Yeah, we'll see

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Give me a break

Like you don't think you were asking for that kind of response?

Besides, it was purty durn funny. :)

[HEyHEY]

20. Mutilation of a man's genitals is funny?

If I posted I wanted to make stir fry out of a woman's (Which I don't) we see all hell reign down upon me.

I wasn't looking for a reaction, I just wanted to set the record straight.


(Also I don't want this to seem like I'm attacking Teena, cause I'm not. I took that light heartedly because it came from her. But it's the many that gave her a "way to go" while at the same time calling people bastards for liking a fucking T-shirt that pissed me off)

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. No funnier than this:

The Best Way to a Woman's Heart is Through Her Ribcage.

At least there's a bettter chance you would still be alive after your canojes are fried than the woman who is stabbed.

[HEyHEY]

24. Rosanne BARR wrote that joke about men though

Oddly, it was funnt when it was about men...

[Beware the Beast Man]

28. He conveniently ignored my post above...

[LastKnight]

31. Put it on a shirt, then the masses will find it offensive

:eyes: jeez people.

[jobycom]

32. Odd, I thought it came from that Eddie Murphy film about vampires.

Did Roseanne use it first?

[HEyHEY]

35. That;s what I'm hearing

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I didn't think it was funny

Roseanne is not ALWAYS funny. Most of the time, yes, but jokes about stabbing folks just don't strike me as very funny.

[hfojvt]

53. don't take life seriously

it isn't permanent.
Death is always fodder for jokes because you are joking about it when it is not happening. The same goes for violence. You joke about it because you know that you will never actually do it. The humor is when you take a well known cliche like "the quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach" and take it literally.

Also, if you search Amazon.com, I find "The Story of O" and the fiction of John Norman, both of which I find to be highly objectionable. And I am sure there is more, besides Hannity, Coulter and Limbaugh.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0759201471/qid=1122445740/sr=8-8/ref=pd_bbs_8/102-8815158-6372909?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The bad part is that the place in question might also sell progressive t-shirts, and some of us might have bought without knowing what else they were peddling. Still I shop at Amazon in spite of their willingness to sell what I find highly objectionable, and their right-wing corporate donations and their deliberate strategy to run independent bookstores like my own out of business. My old wholesaler, Ingram books, was hardly a bastion of progressivism either I am sure.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. It's not about taking life too seriously

I'm sorry you don't see that. But many of us here are not only offended but outraged by many of the products this sponsor sells. It's not just the sexist sayings on these t-shirts but the 'jokes' about Abu Ghraib also.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. I meant it light hearted and wasn't out to get you

But your testicles probably would not have been fodder had you not cited them in your first post.

This site is SUPPOSED to be progressive. In real life, I would no more support frying your testicles than suggesting that the quickest way to a woman's heart is through her rib cage

[Zuni]

40. that isn't a sentence you see every day

"In real life, I would no more support frying your testicles than suggesting that the quickest way to a woman's heart is through her rib cage"

:hi:

[HEyHEY]

49. LOL

Holy shit all this testical talk is making me laugh so hard

[hfojvt]

54. 'what? No, you mean 'tentacles'

There's a difference.'

From the movie "Better off Dead"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. OK, HeyHey...let's get one thing clear. I didn't introduce your nuggets

into the conversation. You did, with your first post. If you don't want your testicles to be damaged, then why did you reference them in your first post? Why not leave them out of the conversation entirely? Again, you brought them into it.

[sundog]

30. lmao

:rofl:

sorry, heyhey x(

[progmom]

33. nuggets....

:rofl:

[HEyHEY]

38. That, was the funniest post written in a long time

I was just using them to help express my feeling to the lynching that took place in GD.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. I saw the thread after the fact

and had I been posting at the time, I would have asked you what you meant since I know you've gotten yourself in hot water in GD before ;)

and to be sure, I seriously doubted you would have supported the ideas expressed on those shirts.

[HEyHEY]

45. All expcept the one about nuking penguins

Oh, shit.. I've said too much

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. OK..I'm getting the frying pan back out

:grr:

[hfojvt]

55. If I introduce my nose into the conversation

does that justify someone taking a poke at it? If I introduce my toes into the conversation, is that an invitation for them to be stomped on? If matcom introduces his a$$ into the conversation, you could avert your eyes, stare, kiss it or grab it. Kicking it is not the only response. Do not perpetrators of violence always believe that their victims are "asking for it"?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Focus on the Family

should accept Planned Parenthood ads. Some of their women may be needing health care.

[LastKnight]

18. cant we let the subject die already?

seriously. its done... let it go. the mods removed the link hours ago. its not worth keeping the subject alive.

yea, it was inappropriate. but can it die yet?

[CanuckAmok]

37. And of course Roseanne should sue them.

Because that line is stolen from her bit: "The fastest way to a man's heart is through is ribcage".

Where were you then?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. I wasn't watching Roseanne..never found her to be terribly funny

if they stole that line from her..it just confirms my good judgement back then

[I Know How To Do it]

47. NO! There are many blacks that play college sports!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. Excuse me?

[progmom]

52. I think he may have NCAA confused with the NAACP

...or is pretending to. :eyes:

[Kraklen]

57. The KKK is intrinsically racist.

I don't think that rude comments about oral sex are intrinsically sexist.