I just had a major political conflagration with a friend... (Long post)

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

Don’t ask me why, but I’ve maintained this friendship with a friend who listens to Rush almost every day. Tonight, he was mad because of a link on Fark.com that mentioned some school keeping creationism out of the classroom.
Somehow, we got from talking about that to him saying this country was founded on religion. I told him he was wrong; that this country was founded on the freedom from religious persecution.
From that, we started on other topics, and eventually, I exploded. He even mentioned the “liberal media”, which I diced apart. He says the major newscasters all admitted to being liberals, which I laughed at.
In that hellish glory of righteous anger, I hammer punched him verbally on everything the Bush administration has been doing wrong in the “fight against terra”. I detailed the lies that Bush had made re: Iraq and our case for going there, and then he did it:
He mentioned Clinton’s “inadequacy” in fighting terrorism.
Did I lay a trap for him? In retrospect, yes, I did. But I honestly didn’t expect him to fall into it. I hammered him with the tripling of anti-terrorism funding that Clinton pushed for. The 50 or so agents on Bin Laden’s trail, which Bush cut to a mere two agents. I clobbered him when he said “Clinton was offered Bin Laden on a silver platter.” (Thank YOU, Al Franken!)
And I didn’t let up. I told him about Bush sitting on his ass for the six months before September 11. I told him about Clinton’s plan for eliminating Al Qaeda, which he chose not to execute just days before handing over the reins to Bush. I mentioned that Bush chose to do nothing.
And not surprisingly, he didn’t believe me.
He asks me for the proof about Clinton’s plan. He asks me for the evidence. He says that “any article that you bring forth, I can bring another one that will counter it.”
He is wrong.
I should be gentle here. I should be subtle. But I am tired of being called a “traitor”. I’m tired of being called “un-American”. I am tired of having people shout “God Bless America” in my face and expect me to thrust my hand into the air in a fascist-style salute.
I will no longer allow anyone to defame what I believe. I will no longer stand by and shrug when they attack my party, and my idealism. I will hammer them with the truth, beating a steady rhythm until they understand that the REAL traitors to America are those who lied to the people, those who betrayed our country for a damn percentage of profit.
It’s a good thing he’s my only conservative friend.

Mods: If this belongs in GD, then I’m sorry for posting it here. And thank you for moving it in advance. If you did. If you didn’t, then ignore this.

Anyone have links to news articles regarding Clinton’s plan to take out Al Qaeda? I loaned out my Al Franken book, and he mentioned it in detail, so I don’t know where the articles are. PM me if you have links, because I’ve seen his façade of trust with the Republican party start to crack.

[jeter]

1. This country was not founded on "freedon FROM religion"

It was founded on the principle that people could practice whatever religion they wanted.

There is a serious difference there.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

3. My apologies, I meant to say what the post says now about religion

It wasn't the only reason this country was founded, but I believe strongly in the seperation of Church and State, and with this rant, I lost a few details of the discussion.
I screwed up!

[midwest_lurker]

5. just two prepositions ("of" replaces "from")

(at least) i knew what you meant . . . the rest of the post used correct prepositions . . .

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

6. Funny thing is, I majored in Creative Writing in college!

But I didn't proofread this. I'm still too hyped up.

[DeathvadeR]

2. Even though it tried to exempt Religion in the process.

This country was built based on religious overtones that are still very aparent.

[midwest_lurker]

4. yeah i have several friends . . .

only a few do i continue battling for a middle ground with some semblance of truth.
clinton's efforts are goggle-able, even in mainstream press (presumably more from this era then back-in-the-day)

[WilliamPitt]

7. If you need help on Clinton's record

Start here:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/101303A.shtml

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

8. That is EXACTLY what I need. thank you!

My friend, unfortunately, won't consider you a real news source.
He'll probably just scream "liberal bias" and that will be the end of it.

[DeathvadeR]

9. This says it all I think.....

<>

[pansypoo53219]

10. welcome to the fire-breathing Democrats

we won't lay down and takle Retardican bullshit ANYMORE.
I am sure Al franken is a sweet guy, but there is only so much shit you can be willing to take and we are gonna have to be revolutionary in our thinking to get our country back..

i pologize for any typos. i think faster than i type.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

11. Thank you. I've been here a while.

I just haven't entered the proper rhythm for posting.
And I thanked Al Franken because in his latest book "Lies" he detailed the whole "Clinton was offered Bin Laden on a silver platter" bull story and debunked it perfectly. My friend was...stunned, to say the least when I had a detailed, fact-ridden reply to his assertaion.

Al Franken? A sweet guy?

[specimenfred1984]

12. Brainwashed People Defend Flawed Presuppositions

Arguing with a brainwashed republican is a waste of time. The only way to get any real learning to occur is to find out why, not what, the person has come to believe what they believe.

For example; the WMD lies and conspiracy. It's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and yet, brainwashed "pukes" still don't believe it. Why not? Because they were predisposed to believe whatever came out of Bushmonkey's mouth before he even said it. The "puke" will defend whatever Bushmonkey says to defend his own pre-decision to believe him.

Arguing the Bushmonkey lie is therefore an attack on the brainwashed individuals decision, not an argument about the actual issue being discussed.

If a "puke" won't discuss their reason why they believe something, you can forget ever reaching them. And, many republicans I've met have some pretty bigoted reasons for believing and defending some of their positions. Getting someone to admit they're a bigot is just about impossible as well.

Such is life under fascist neocon rule.