Yet another scam to rip off the poor and people with bad credit.

[Wcross]

http://www.pcsforall.com/default.aspx?campaign=google_pcsforall

I saw a commercial this morning for a company selling pc's with "no credit check" and "bad credit ok".
They were selling Dell pc's (the ones advertised for 399.00 if sold by Dell) for 29.95 a week for one year. Thats about 1560.00 for a 399.00 computer.
That is an incredible mark-up. 300% return on their investment. How does that not fall under the usery laws? Is it because it isn't a cash loan but rather a loan on equipment?

[Merlot]

1. Speaking of bad credit...

you know those "non-profit Credit Counseling" places? The ones that consilidate debts and give you a low monthly payment? They are owned by the credit card companies.

Since using a credit card consolidation company looks as bad as bankruptcy on your credit rating, it makes more sense to filing bankruptcy to dischagre some debt.

The credit card counselors will have you paying until you die.

[Wcross]

2. I have heard about that scam too.

I guess its easy to kick a man (or woman) when their down.

[Liberal Veteran]

4. Those commercials are so vile...

"I thought about filing bankruptcy but I was worried about my credit"

Um, let's see....you are drowning in debt from credit and you are worried that you won't be able to get more debt from credit if you file bankruptcy?

Hello? That's just fucking illogical.

[miss_kitty]

13. Consumer Credit Counseling is a good group

they've been around for decades, bargain for lower or no interests rates, counsel the consumer on credit use. As someone who made credit granting decisions for years, an R7 or R8 (I can't remember which code meant CCC) on a CBR looked much better than bnky and an R9.
They ARE non profit and get the creditors to support them.
It's the FOR PROFIT ones that suck majorly. They should be outlawed.

[oneighty]

3. Rent to own

people too are bandits.

180

[BiggJawn]

7. Rent-A-Center. Home of the $900 particle board nightstand...

Those places are SUCH rip-offs. You get a room full of what I used to call "Mobile Home Furniture" because it was the same poorly-built cheap shit they put in "Fully-Furnished" mobile homes, and by the time you finally finish paying for it, you could have bought a room full of Stickley...

$3,000 for a 21" TV set...

And the ones in town have signs that say "Si habla Espanol".

[Guy Fawkes]

16. Our local rent-a-center advertised a $900 X-Box.

Only $300 down payment! ... :puke:

[BiggJawn]

22. Those things sell at CostCo for what, $250?

That's Capitalism for you, the least-able to pay get screwed the most...

Because "Actuarial tables" show that low-income people have higher rates of past-due bills, utility shut-offs, and repossessions.

Yeah, I'd say if 30% of my monthly income was going towards interest and fees for the Teeee-Veeee set, I'd be in trouble with TRW myself....

[lpbk2713]

5. Add the payday loan outfits to the list

They all inhabit the same cesspool.

[terrya]

14. Payday loans are evil. One half ring above borrowing from the Mob.

Trust me. I know.

If you have financial problems, go out of your way to find a way to NOT to resort to these loans.

[youthere]

18. Did you know that right now these payday loan places

(Check into Cash and the like) have more locations in the US than MCDONALDS?

[terrya]

20. I can believe it. There seems to be one in every strip mall.

And I think Congress had better address this issue. I wouldn't be surprised about that number. There needs to be some legislation to oversee these scams. I'd prefer to see all of them going out of business, myself.

[youthere]

31. We have a group here in Eastern Iowa that is lobbying

to get some regulation on these places. They just prey upon the poor.

[lpbk2713]

21. I always have a bad feeling about going into a business.....

where the employees are always behind a big plexiglass barrier and all the transactions between the clerk and the customer and shuttled back and forth in a little drawer in the counter. I tend to look around a lot for a psychopath who is about to commit some sort of mayhem. Seems like these places all have the same interior layout.

[WCGreen]

6. That commercial just annoys the shit out of me.....

Hey, just put 25 bucks away each week for four months and buy a compture at COSTCO

[pitohui]

8. usury laws repealed under ronald reagan

that is why loan sharking is legal today, indeed, old-time loan sharks gave better rates than today's check-cashing stores

it costs too much to be poor

[WCGreen]

9. I wonder if they have been editied out of the bible yet.....

[FloridaPat]

10. Not for individuals. If you or I charged those rates, we'd be arrested

for usuary.

[pitohui]

12. it's easy enough to file as an LLC

you can file as a limited liability corporation even if you're an individual in my state and many others now

no problem setting up such stores legally around here

[Kat45]

19. Ah Ha! I suspected as much.

I've also been noticing all of these schemes, which would certainly fall under the definition of usury, that appear to be perfectly legal. I had a feeling the usury laws were gone; doesn't surprise me that it was under Reagan.

We also can't forget the usurious interest rates charged on credit cards: one late payment, and the rate skyrockets to the stratosphere.

[Hugin]

11. Typical.

Gee, I wonder if *this* administration is ever
going to confront this issue.

Nah.

In fact, I suspect they receive much of their
"campaign contributions" through schemes identical
to this.

[MercutioATC]

15. How about a little personal responsibility.

Unless the argument is that the impoverished are naturally stupid, they have the ability not to avail themselves of these companies' services.

I don't any guns to peoples' heads.

[Pithlet]

23. Not stupid. Desperate.

But, regardless of the reason, these companies don't have the right to pray on that. The fact that the victims willingly come forth doesn't absolve these usury companies ethically or morally.

[MercutioATC]

24. I realize that I'm in the minority here, but I think it IS a matter of

personal responsibility.

Of COURSE "these companies" have the right to "prey" on that... that's called capitalism. A corporaton is its own legal entity...one that exists solely to make a profit.

[Pithlet]

25. No

Corporations aren't magically exempt from morals and ethics because they're trying to make a buck. Ethics apply to all entities, corporate or otherwise.

[CTLawGuy]

26. are they lying to the customers or misleading them?

the prices are set by the market. The poorer people are free to buy a computer from someone else if they don't want to pay that.

if it's a bad deal, then the customers need to realize that and not get involved.

I think paying 5 dollars for a hot dog at a baseball game is a rip off, but its not unethical. I am free to not go, or eat before or after.

The solution is to educate poor people about economics and finances, so they realize it is a bad deal.

[Pithlet]

27. That doesn't absolve them from not doing it in the first place

You cannot compare what they do to buying a hot dog at a baseball game. They are preying on the desperation of poor people. Period. Many of them feel they have nowhere else to turn. There aren't a whole heck of a lot of options for low income people. It's not as though traditional loan companies are soliciting their business.

If there were better deals to be had, then many more would be going there. Don't buy into the right wing myth that poor people are stupid.

Edited spelling.

[CTLawGuy]

32. im not buying into that at all

not all poor people go for those things.

but there are dumb people out there. Thats why education is important.

[Nevernose]

28. A close friend of mine is mentally retarded

It's a strange form of brain damage. He's not "stupid" exactly, but closer to being autistic or that "Aspereger's Syndrome" I'm hearing about these days. Serious, severe problems with interpersonal skills. Although living independantly, most of his needs (bills, rent, etc.) are taken care through the trust his late father left him. He is in no way capable of disbelieving what the salesman at the rent-a-center tells him, nor of performing the computations necessary to realize that, over time, the computer will cost him $1,500. He ended up paying 30 grand for a TV, a couch, and a laptop w/ a 400 mhz processor. They prey on people.

A good argument could also be made, in fact, that many impoverished people, while not "stupid," do indeed have poorer educations than other, luckier people, and thus lack the skills necessary to make wise decisions. What seems like pretty simple math to people like you and me may be quite a bit more complicated to someone who reads, computes, and generally functions at a fourth grade. Extremely poor people who want a piece of the American dream (which these days involves a computer) might not even really be able to comprehend having $1500 at a time. Not stupid people, just poorly educated and poorly experienced ones.

There's also a strong corellation that's been shown between people born into poverty or otherwise deprived and the need for instant gratification. One prevalent theory is that when you're used to not having anything, you'll have no problem spending it as fast as you get it. Maybe that's a "personal responsibility" issue, I don't know.

These guys prey on people. They prey on poor people who believe they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford a computer. They prey on the irresponsible, and they prey on the incapable, the ignorant, and the unintelligent.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. We live in a culture lacking in personal responsibility for finances.

The poor fall for these schemes just the same as other consumers. Too many people today have a disconnect in understanding that a $100 DVD player could end up costing them twice as much because of credit card interest. Too many people have lost the will to exercise restraint in consumer purchases and lifestyle choices. Oversized houses, oversized vehicles, and every electronic gee-gaw one can imagine are the norm.

Poverty sucks. There are so few opportunities to have a little something extra. The poor sometimes fall into the trap of trying to create a middle class life for their kids because they don't want the kids to feel the burden of poverty. It's stupid in the long run, but in the short run it makes the parents feel better. The reality is the strict parents who live within their means and make sure the children understand that limitation are doing are greater service to them.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

17. yes, I've seen those commercials too. What a scam.

I did the math as well, it's a total ripoff. Makes me sick. If I recall the commercial, they require a checking account - so the poor schlub foolish (or desperate) enough to do this will get it automatically drafted from their checking account, I imagine.

What a racket. How could this crap be legal?!

[China_cat]

30. There are no usury laws any more.

Not ones that'll ever be enforced while the compassionate conservatives rule.

[alarimer]

33. Those refund anticipation loans are also bad.

I mean, H&R Block used to advertise them as quick refunds but it was actually a loan at HUGE interest rates (35% or so if I remember correctly). They had to change what they called it because ti was so misleading. But they are not upfront about the interest you will have to pay. Neither are the Rent-A-Centers. They all lie and mislead and scam gullible people. Why do you think those places are located where they are?

[Wcross]

34. I would love to earn a 300% return on my capital....

... but I couldn't sleep at night if I did it off the backs of people that are down on their luck. Personal responsibility is a portion of the issue. How about disclosure though? Why not tell the consumer the true value of the item and what the weekly payments will total? I have known many people in my life that would only look at the weekly payment if no other information is provided. At the risk of offending somebody, yes, some people are not intelligent enough to do the math. If you doubt me, just how many Bush/Cheney bumper stickers do you STILL see on the road?

It seems as if our government gets a cut of the profits (taxes), they don't care about what kind of damage it causes.

Booze= good
Marijuana=bad

loansharking=bad
payday loans=good

illegal gambling=bad
lottery and casino's=good

Stealing elections=good
stealing anything else=bad.

Sure, charging a 300% markup on a computer is legal, it isn't right though.

[Wapsie B]

35. Places like this need to be shut down, not just regulated.

I mean if the mafia does it it's a crime. But if a supposedly legit business rips people off everything's a ok. Proves that whoever's got the gold makes the rules.