So how do YOU respond?

[progmom]

Last night, my republican father-in-law spouted Rush Limbaugh talking points at me.
:grr:

I wasn't going to bring it up. We had dinner scheduled with them...and I knew it was going to be painful. But I thought...if I don't bring it up, maybe we can talk about sports or the weather or his grandson or his bad hip or something...anything other than the hurricane.

We weren't there for a half hour before he started in. Apropos of nothing, he says: "I think it's wrong to be playing the Blame Game. Blaming the president doesn't help any of those people get rescued. Doesn't make anyone less dead." We bantered back and forth a bit - I brought up the way Bush slashed the levee maintenance funds, talked about how long it took to mobilize the relief and rescue operations. He countered with: "It was their fault for living below sea level." :o I reminded him that I had lived in a country that is almost entirely below sea level - do all Dutch people deserve to die because their ancestors were stupid enough to settle there? He told me that was a stupid comparison.

Then...and this is what killed me, he said that all of the blame lies with the insurance companies and that they were greedy enough to insure houses below sea level so everyone deserves what they got. :wow:

He continued: "Do you think it's worth all the many billions of dollars that it will take...of our money...our tax dollars...to fix San Francisco? To prepare it for the inevitable earthquake that will wipe it off the map?" I told him that he probably already knew my answer, and based on his use of the term "our money," I was pretty sure I knew what his position was too.

Grrrr... Anyone else been facing this? How do you respond?

[nini]

1. I'd rather have my tax money spent on American cities and people..

than Enron, Halliburton and a fake war.

[progmom]

2. ah, but that's just me being a paranoid bleeding heart lib again

:eyes:

[nini]

25. I would think that makes you an AMERICAN

but then we're talking about 'compassionate conservatives' here.

[SOteric]

3. By that logic we should be getting our lips out of Iraq,

forthwith. After all it's their own damned fault for being born in a country with a twisted dictator and a bunch of religious zealots. They don't need the money of American Taxpayers, let 'em go find a greedy insurance company to fund their terrorist nation.

[progmom]

8. we have to fight the war on terror - what are you - some kind of hippie?

:hi:

[SOteric]

9. Well... since you ask...

yes. :hi:

[progmom]

10. yeah. me too.

:hug:

[DS1]

11. but at least you smell nice

:D

[sniffa]

18. Like patouLi

[tjwmason]

4. San Francisco deserves the earthquake it's going to get though

Such a den of iniquity and vice.



(Yes - if you needed it :sarcasm: I certainly didn't mean that seriously.)

[progmom]

6. well....

that could be part of it.

he's not a big fan of that type of behavior. and it's not a religious thing with him - i think the only times he has set foot in a church in the past 50 years has been for our wedding and progspawn's baptism. it just makes him reeeeeeeeally uncomfortable. when i told my inlaws that my brother had come out, his response was to turn on his heel and say: "that's really none of my business."

[jane_pippin]

5. good lord, are you married to my man's brother?

Because his dad has been blasting us with long (LONG) emails saying pretty much the exact same thing. In one of them, he said something like "Well the south has been run by plantation politics for decades..."

We've, (by "we" I mean the boyfriend, but I've been slipping links to him to help counter all of this), gotten the "don't lay blame on the feds--I'm sick of Bush getting blamed for everything" lines, the "those people should have left" lines, and the "those people still trapped there are just begging for more welfare now" lines.

We've been blasting him back with facts, but dern that librul meedja, they just don't stick. Apparently only White House press releases are true. We sent him one that shows the date FEMA took over officially, but guess what? Looks like we missed his deadline, because in his last letter he closed by saying that it was his last word on the subject, end of discussion.

I'm really upset about this too. The boyfriend and I had friends there who lost everything. One of them walked out of NO days after the flood. Another finally got out on Sept. 1st and can't even talk about the things he saw, he's so shocked.

I just don't get it. I never would have expected to hear this from his dad, ever. I just thought he was a good guy duped by Fox News, and given proper facts, his "good guy" nature would win out over Fox talking points. Boy, was I wrong.

I don't know what to do Progmom. Thanksgiving 2005 is going to get mighty interesting for me, I know that much.

(Sorry for the long post--apparently I needed to vent with you)

:hug:

[progmom]

7. i know exactly what you mean.

"I just thought he was a good guy duped by Fox News, and given proper facts, his "good guy" nature would win out over Fox talking points. Boy, was I wrong."

You hit my feelings, spot-on. I'm so disappointed.

[jane_pippin]

16. Yes, it's so disheartening.

I just don't get how people who really do have good values, good hearts--I mean I see it in the kid they raised--can at the same time be so uncaring, or so willing to accept the party line for no good reason.

[flvegan]

12. And the folks that died in the WTC on 9/11 were at fault

for being greedy enough to have jobs there or business to attend to there, right?

Oh, wait...it's the fault of the insurance company that insured something that could be such a big target.

No, it's the builders/architects that designed something so easily hit.

Or, it's the fault of the builders of the planes that hit them because they could, indeed, fly.

It's bullshit overload. Anything to sweep Bush further away from the central problems.

[xmas74]

13. I have fundies in my family.

I can usually get them to drop the politics by talking about how all the little girls want to look like Britney Spears.
Otherwise,I just ignore them. No use in fighting w/ family.

[progmom]

19. he's not a fundie. he's just a dittohead.

a close-minded dittohead. generous as an individual. incredibly kind and generous to both his family and his staff. he treats the people who work for him like his extended family. i have never met a more generous individual.

he just seems so willfully ignorant about things. it's really hard to be around him.

[xmas74]

28. That means that the arguments are even louder w/ him.

Fundies bring it all back to religion. Republicans bring it all back to money-their money(whether it really is or not).
The similarities is that it is hard to be around either.
Maybe you can make a deal w/ him. Take him aside and tell him that since neither of you will ever agree on politics they should no longer be discussed in front of each other. You can both find the time to discuss other topics (maybe even his childhood. Tell him you really want some wonderful stories to tell progspawn about him as a child).

And come armed w/ tons of pics of progspawn and every last bit of his artwork. Bring a Nerfball and a foam bat or a Nerf football and get them to play a game together. Might work if put the focus on your son instead.

[sniffa]

14. i prefer to cut them out of our Lives

he doesn't deserve to see his grandson anymore. seriousLy.

[progmom]

21. i can't.

it would ruin my marriage.
x(

[sniffa]

29. so your husband feeLs the same way then?

same as his father?

[progmom]

31. he doesn't. not by a long shot.

but he loves his dad. in spite of it all, he still idolizes his dad. heck - i still love certain things about his dad. i just don't respect him much anymore.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. I would simply ask what happened that such a good man and father

of your husband is so cold hearted to the suffering of tens of thousands. Then ask, if this were a terrorist attack would you be satisfied with the response?

[progmom]

30. it's hard.

...because he makes me so angry. that would have been a great thing to say though. :hi:

[huskerlaw]

17. Sounds like my family.

I was supposed to go to a family reunion this weekend. With my entirely Repug family. Under normal circumstances, this would have been an exercise in self-control, which I'm quite used to. However, after the hurricane, I knew I wouldn't be able to be civil when they started baiting me (yes, baiting, they love to see who can piss me off the most) about hurricane victims, I would completely snap.

So I didn't go. Avoidance. That's the only decent response I've come up with so far. Mind you, someday I'll be more than happy to debate this subject with them, but I'm in absolutely no frame of mind to do it constructively at the moment.

About all you can do is make coherent arguments based on, oh you know...facts. If he can't or won't accept those facts, there's sadly not much you can do.

Props to you for making it through dinner without bloodshed.

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. How would I respond?

Thusly:

"You, sir, are obviously rather ignorant of certain basic facts regarding government in theory and practice. Firstly, the primary object of any government is the protection of its citizens, whether from military or terrorist threats or the effects of natural disasters. Secondly, there is something called the "social contract" which you may or may not have heard of; the basic idea is that the government does its job of protecting you, the citizen, and in return there are certain obligations which are incumbent upon you, including but not limited to the payment of taxes and military service in time of war if called upon. It is not "our money", save in the sense that it is supposed to be used to the common good, and in the fulfilment of the government's primary mission; the cost of infrastructure maintenance and engineering in earthquake- and flood-prone locations, such as San Francisco and New Orleans, certainly falls under this purview, as those people are no less American than yourself, and the government's obligation to them is no less. If you sincerely believe that government's functions ought NOT rightly to include protection of the citizenry, I invite you to move to a more congenial country, such as Zimbabwe. You would doubtless find it more to your liking."

[progmom]

26. ....

:applause:

i think i will print this and carry it in my wallet at all times.

[meegbear]

22. If Bill Clinton was president when it happened ...

would you absolve him and his administration?

[kick-ass-bob]

23. Please never speak to me again until you can come up with your own

original thoughts.

[progmom]

27. and that's exactly what i almost said about 300 times

i think i was literally biting my tongue at one point to keep the words from slipping out.

[Fenris]

24. Holland is far from a stupid comparison.

The Dutch have spent millions ensuring that the water on the other side of the dikes doesn't come through. Their country isn't under water. New Orleans is. As the Corps of Engineers pointed out, the problem with the levees and their threat to New Orleans existed long before Katrina. The government had the opportunity to rectify the situation; they did nothing. In fact, they did less than nothing because they slashed the budget for flood control in New Orleans drastically to try to scrounge up cash for our quagmire in the middle east.

As for this being the fault of the insurance companies, I'm speechless.

Sorry you have to endure such a moran. :hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

32. There are some very good points being made here, my dear progmom;

I have not got anything substantial to add to those...

I just wanted to give you my support at this time of personal and national crisis...

:applause: :applause: :hug: :hug: :loveya:

[billyskank]

33. Progmom, I have absolutely no idea

Conversations like that never seem to happen in my life, for which I am very grateful. Sorry, no good ideas here.

[CBHagman]

34. Why not blame tornado victims for living where they do?

I'm sorry, but once you start indulging that kind of blame-the-victim mind-set, all logic and humanity fly right out the window and you start excusing any inaction.

A good deal of our country is threatened by, in no particular order, earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes, tsunamis, low temperatures, high temperatures, and deadly storms of various sorts. Does he want us to clear out Minnesota and New England due to snow and ice storms? How about both coasts? The entire Midwest?

And whatever he may tell himself, it isn't just California that's threatened by earthquakes.

Intelligent people do not sit around taking illegal drugs, having their calls screened, and blathering on the radio about ways people can be their worst, most selfish, most ignorant selves. Intelligent people look for solutions.

Limbaugh will never, ever fall into the last category, barring a road to Damascus style conversion. His descent into obscurity is coming, and he cannot save himself from his own failure.

We know that the Japanese have, with strict building codes and like, responded to the problem of earthquakes with practical measures. As far as I know, the Dutch have done the same regarding flooding.

[sui generis]

35. I just got back from Mr. Sui's family farm in Washington state

A whole robust family full of dark blue democrats, not even a token conservative, brothers, sisters, cousins, spouses, aunts, uncles.

I am still basking in the warmth . . . (sui glows)

Mmmmmm raw milk, fresh corn with churned butter, cool nights, a hundred dozen dust devils dancing on the hills, alfalfa and hay, an occasional moooo from the barn, a million billion stars.

Amazingly profoundly "good" people - (sui still glowing)

(still glowing)

[El Fuego]

36. "Doesn't make anyone less dead"? Hmmmm.

If that's the case, that would be the perfect murder defense. "Even though my client is obviously guilty Your Honor, blaming him for the murder won't make anyone ANY LESS DEAD. Therefore my client should get off scott free."

[Rabrrrrrr]

37. Does he live in Michigan, a known Tornado zone?

I bet he does!

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. You marry me - then you won't have a republican father-in-law

:loveya:

:P