No offense to philosophers out there, but. . .

[cssmall]

at what point can I call bullshit? The discipline, at least to me, appears to have no structure and no basic guidelines. It is like being college trained to be a human being, because that's exactly all you are doing by asking those questions. Now, I'm in a social science that relies on social philosophy, but that is important especially in the fact that it is an attempt to understand something instead of just throwing one, big, unprovable thought into a premise to fit the fucking conclusion. It's bullshit, period.

[nickgutierrez]

1. Calling bullshit is what philosophy is all about

As far as I've read, which I admit isn't much, the history of philosophy almost entirely consists of philosophers calling bullshit on one another.

If you think it's bullshit, though, I would say it's up to you to come up with a better solution. :)

[cssmall]

12. Here's an argument for you.

All philosophy since Greece is bullshit.
Greece's intellectual influence ended before the common era.
Therefore, philosphy has been bullshit since before the\ common era.

[tigereye]

28. that's just a logic problem

not a real conclusion. You have to work a little harder than that to dismiss thousands of years of inquiry, don't you think? :)

[Guaranteed]

32. That's a totally invalid syllogism.

You're going to have to rework it. The way you have it, it doesn't mean anything. You're even tripping yourself up with your own terms (i.e. "philosophy since Greece" and then talking about the common era).

[BigMcLargehuge]

35. The undistributed middle

:)

[tjdee]

2. I think philosophy makes people smarter....

just because of the amount of thinking, and thinking about what other people thought, and talking about what one is thinking and how that compares to what others thought about thinking.

It seems horribly pretentious to me, actually, but I do enjoy reading philosophy sometimes, and when I meet someone who has studied it I need a few minutes to figure out whether they're pretentious and think they know everything or whether they are deeply introspective and observant. I quite like the latter.

[cssmall]

9. Yeah, but anyone can be deeply introspective and observant.

It is a career in Biology, Anthropology, Writing of any sort, Sociology, Psychology, and many, many more. Philosophy, by and large, seems to have NO specific point but to be mental masturbation, which is gratifying, but has no damn point except for the smile and maybe cigarette afterwards.

[tigereye]

29. guess my friend who just got her doctorate in philosophy

wasted 10 -15 years of her life then.

What's your beef? It isn't clear to me and I haven't seen anything but ad hominem arguements so far.

[Guaranteed]

33. You need to understand that there IS a system.

Based on LOGIC. Very, very real system. As real as it gets.

It's not bullshit. Learn your logic, and if you meet a "philosopher" who isn't holding true to logic, call them on it. They ain't no philosopher.

Western, anyhow.

[FuzzyThinker]

3. Pearls under the feet of ......

[cssmall]

5. Welcome to DU

:wave:

[anarch]

4. don't all the sciences descend from philosophy?

I mean, physics is "natural philosophy" or something, right? Or it used to be...I don't know, really, I'm asking.

Of course, some schools of philosophy have basic rules and structure...but you're talking about philosophy in the most general terms, which I guess means the open-ended exploration of everything that one is able to think about. I think we have to agree to use logic, and that's about it.

Having studied some small amount of philosophy, I take your point, but I always enjoyed those classes. Social and political philosophy in particular has, at the very least, given me lots of ammunition to sound good arguing about just war theory and such.


Now, if you want to talk pure bullshit, let's talk about what passes for "History" in our education system....

[cssmall]

7. I agree to all sailent points made so far.

And, logic is fine. I understand and agree with logical approaches. That being said, I'm in agreement with you about "history," specifically because the archaeological record disproves, at least in my eyes, the majority of what is taught in school.

[Chichiri]

6. Philosophy is not bullshit. Brain candy is bullshit.

From another forum:

* * * * *

Philosophy is not bullshit. Brain Candy is bullshit, and there is a difference.

Philosophies guide us in deciding our values or deciding what is real. Logic, for example, is a philosophical idea which was introduced by Aristotle. Without it, no science. Without science, we have no medicine, no engineering, no bud hybridization. Logic, a philosophy, has been the most important contribution made to civilization, because it has made the rest possible.

Brain candy, on the other hand, is philosophy like, but exists more for entertainment purposes. "If a tree falls in the forest..." yada, yada, yada. Interesting to ponder while stoned, and a little challenging to the mind, but it doesn't lead to anything of substance. Many of the quips of wisdom in movies are brain candy, for example.

* * * * *

As the holder of a bachelor's degree in philosophy, I can vouch that that assessment is, more or less, accurate.

[cssmall]

8. I see that assessment as correct.

But, damn it, it seems like everyone since Socrates, Plato and Aristotle just specialize in brain candy.

"God exists because he exists."
"That's just a concept, you can't prove a concept with a concept."
"Well, then, God exists as the natural cause of all things."
"But, can't you substitute infinity for God."
"Uhm. . . God exists?"

Note that I'm a deist, but fuck, it makes me NOT want to believe in God to listen to these bullshit arguments.

[Chichiri]

10. The vast majority of Christian apologetics are brain candy.

No wonder you're frustrated.

Try David Hume ,Bertrand Russell and Michael Martin, if you're of an analytical bent.

[cssmall]

13. I liked Hume, so far.

Maybe it's because the teacher is undecided? Anyhow, I am analytical. Shit, I love sitting down with a pile of artifacts, document them and then analyze them. I would love to go over an analysis of things instead of just presuming something. Personally, St. Thomas and St. Anslem are morons.

[Guaranteed]

20. The natural progress in Western philosophy is from Hume,

who just destroys it all, to Kant, who begins to build it all up again.

Post again when you understand how Kant is starting to make logical statements about the human mental condition.

[tigereye]

31. and Kierkegaard is brain candy?

splain this to me, please. He is certainly hard to read.

[Liberalynn]

16. I only took one Philosophy course

but it is interesting our professor never brought the religious aspects into it.

He raised questions like "even though certain concepts of science are considered as "Laws" how do we know for certain that when we wake up tomorrow that somehow they might not all be suddenly and inexplicably changed?

We also learned concepts like the duality of nature that sort of thing.

I specifically took it as an alternative to "World Religions." After 9 years of Catholic school K-8, I'd had enough religion to last me a lifetime.

[tigereye]

30. so Berkeley and other rationalists, etc are brain candy then?

Logic is all, eh.

[Graf Orlok]

11. Philosophy is one of the best fields out there...why, you ask?

Because it forces someone to think...something which seems to be rare in this country nowadays.

[cssmall]

14. But, one should be how to think previously, that just illustrates the

problems of the American system. It's all bullshit.

[Lubernaut]

15. My philosophy is that

there are times when people feel sad. And that hamburgers do indeed exist.

[cssmall]

17. Welcome to DU!

:toast: :beer:

[Guaranteed]

19. Philosophy is the mother of all other "fields." nt

[Guaranteed]

18. When you figure out the definition of "logic," you can begin saying

something like this.

80% of the people I see don't even use that word right. And since it is central to philosophy....well, there you go.

[johnnie]

21. Who isn't a philosopher?

Philosophy is another word for yappin'.

[Guaranteed]

22. You have to understand logic to understand philosophy...

At least Western Philosophy.

[alarcojon]

23. and logic is anything but bullshit. n/t

[Guaranteed]

24. ???

Let's just say that logic is the last thing that anyone can call "bullshit."

[alarcojon]

25. Don't understand the "???"

I'm agreeing with you. I'm a mathematician, for crying out loud!

[Guaranteed]

26. Yeah, I figured, it's that "anything but" phrase that seems to

get used in both directions, so I never quite understand what someone means by it.

I actually thought I understood by the context, though.

You're dead right on. Logically. :P

[Guaranteed]

27. "anything but" and "all but" nt

[cssmall]

34. I wasn't calling logic bullshit, in fact, I understand and love logic.

I just wanted something that would go away from these GRAND concepts who's existence in itself is a concept, which totally invalidates their argument. I was very frustrated last night with philosophy, but Hume's as far as I've gotten. And, I understand that philosophy is the mother of all sciences. But, most philosophers, my instructor included, have wonderful arguments then toss something out into the argument that is baseless to me, but I know it's completely logical in the guidelines of logic and soundness.

[tjwmason]

36. Philosophy means love of wisdom etmyologically

Most of modern society has no time for 'wisdom' (as opposed to knowledge, for example), and that it is being called bull-shit is simply the manifestation of that.