To the young women

[aePrime]

I'm grading assignments for my university introduction to programming course.

There are two women in the class.

So far I've graded ten of the assignments written by males, and one of the assignments written by a female. So far, the female's the only one to write the program perfectly, in my opinion (which is the only one that counts, as I'm the instructor).

So, basically, the girl has kicked the boys' butts.

Don't let anybody tell you that women can't do math, science, or engineering.

[auntAgonist]

1. woo hooo!

You taught well then !

:)

[deadparrot]

2. Glad to hear!

Now, I'm a young woman, and I can't do math, science, or engineering, because, well, it makes me want to hit things. And cry. As proof, I'm sitting here, half trying to review notes for a bio exam tomorrow, half surfing DU.

But such is the life of a history/international relations major. :hi:

[aePrime]

4. Not all guys can either

But women shouldn't shy away from the fields because they think that they're worse than the men are.

[deadparrot]

7. Definitely not.

Math and science just aren't my things. My dad's a math teacher, and he's the only way I've stayed sane in that subject is with him. Science, I've always just stumbled through. Even doing general biology and liberal arts and sciences calc in the same semester is a struggle. I simply don't have the aptitude or the interest. :)

[LaraMN]

3. Girl Power!

[RevCheesehead]

5. I LOVE the Powerpuff Girls!!!

Call me Buttercup. :)

[KitchenWitch]

18. Which one is Buttercup?

Is she the dark haired one?

[RevCheesehead]

26. yup.

She doesn't take crap from anyone. Buttercup is my hero. :)

[KitchenWitch]

34. Me too!

She always looks like she is pissed!

[BlueIris]

6. I'd love it if we stopped calling women more than 18 years old 'girls.'

It's archaic, condescending and vaguely sexist (and if you do it in the civilized academic circles I used to travel in, you get laughed at--then put under review). Yes, I know you used the terms 'boys' to describe the male students--is that really appropriate? And I sincerely doubt that anyone on this board needed to be told that women "can't do" math, engineering or science, but have fun congratulating yourself for "educating" posters here about something most of us learned in GRADE SCHOOL.

[RevCheesehead]

8. take a breath, please.

One sentence, out of the whole post says "basically, the girls kicked the boys butts."

Hardly intentional sexism.

[aePrime]

9. Ahh

Well, I certainly am sorry for encouraging women to look into fields that they may feel they've been shunned from!

I'll just shut up and watch as the staggering numbers of women push through our computer science department without any encouragement. We're overflowing with them!

[auntAgonist]

11. I thought your post was great!

affirmation is always a good thing.

don't stop posting!

[aePrime]

13. Thanks

:)

[ghostsofgiants]

29. A few quick points...

1) She didn't say the women "women 'can't do' math, engineering or science". Now, assuming "can't" was a typo on your behalf, where is the problem in trying to encourage young women to try their hands at fields that, like it or not, still have a tendency to be dominated by males? Of course we should all know that women are just as capable as me, but that doesn't mean that they're still not discouraged.

2) What difference does it make if you use the term "girl" in a completely non-condescending, casual way? I mean, it just seems so trivial to get all up in arms over it. I personally don't care about being called a boy. It's not like it's even used as any sort of a slur. (On that same note: should we eliminate the terms girlfriend and boyfriend from the lexicon as well?)

[obxhead]

10. ummmm duh...

we're people not a class/race/creed. The only shame is that we must continue to point this out to others.

[aePrime]

12. Well I sure am getting crapped on

for trying to promote women engineers. Have you seen a computer science department? Somebody should be doing this!

[obxhead]

15. you take me out of context.

You pointed something out we all SHOULD know, yet you knew it still needs to be pointed out.

[RevCheesehead]

16. Keep on encouraging... and posting.

Won't it be a wonderful world when we no longer need to point out the gender/sex of the people? I long for the day when people presume that I am female. (yes, the Rev is a she.)

[aePrime]

20. Thanks

But I guess nothing like a good flame war to get the ol' post count up, no?

(btw, my mother is an ordained minister, United Methodist).

[RevCheesehead]

28. woo-hoo! Me, too!

Which conference is she in?

[aePrime]

30. Oregon/Idaho

Is that the official name? I've only realized I have no idea!

My brother is also an ordained Methodist minister.

[RevCheesehead]

31. And so is mine.

Small world, isn't it? :)

[aePrime]

32. Crazy :)

And my mother is furious that Bushy calls himself a United Methodist. Especially with the UM's entire anti-war doctrine.

[auntAgonist]

17. I don't see any reason for to be rude.

the OP was affirming not condescending.

[obxhead]

21. wow... now I get burned

I guess I have a bad way of putting some things.

[Heidi]

27. aA was saying that YOU, the original poster, was being affirming,

not condescending. She was complimenting you. :thumbsup:

[auntAgonist]

33. the OP was fine

obxhead's post was rude in my opinion. I think it was the duhhhhhhh that got me.

[obxhead]

36. it was only duh...

the ummmmm was emphasized. ;-)
I doubt there's much I can say to repair my error. I was only trying to say that this should be the way of life, not something that needed to be pointed out to anyone.
to aePrime...glad your here.

[aePrime]

37. Thanks

Now I know what you were trying to say.

[auntAgonist]

38. I apologize .. my bad

I got myself all confused, replied to your post when i meant to reply to post #6 ...

And then made it worse by trying to clarify.


forgive me please.

aA

[auntAgonist]

39. .......

[obxhead]

35. Thanks Heidi

so now I give myself an "ummm... duh"

[Heidi]

14. aePrime, don't give up on DU, or on encouraging your students

(regardless of gender) to be the best that they can be.

I wish I'd had a math/science teacher like you, or like DUer alarcojon, when I was a "young" woman. Thanks for trying.

:pals:

[aePrime]

19. Thanks

The negative posts won't change how I interact with my students.

[petronius]

22. I had a girlfriend years ago

who only used initials on math homework (in a prestigious Ph.D. program) because she felt her sex would count against her with the grader.

One small thing that bothers me (slightly) about your post is that you express happiness over the grade/sex distribution - I've always felt there was a danger when I found myself feeling pleased over particular results in subjective grades, whether it was to support larger philosophies or just because I (dis)liked a particular student. I would caution you to beware of developing any bias. (And I hope that doesn't sound condescending; I make an effort to cast a critical eye on my own grading behavior and I hope other instructors do as well.)

Anyway, congratulations on having a successful student (or more) - they only learn what you teach them, so good job!

[aePrime]

24. Good tips

And I am well aware of bias -- and I try my hardest not to be biased. The only way to do that is to recognize the potential. But I'm confident that if I showed the programs to other computer scientist, they would agree that hers is the best. She's not the only one I've given a perfect score to in this stack, but the only one in which I found no flaws.

[hfojvt]

41. sometimes they can learn from reading message boards too

it was suggested to me last week that I should teach people to juggle. Although I know how to juggle, I feel it is impossible for me to teach that to anyone. Really, the only way they will learn is if they take three bean bags and practice, practice, practice. I could give a tip or two or see if there are problems with technique, but it in the end it is the practicing which is going to do it, and I could not do that for them. A class provides an external incentive and teachers can provide steps, challenges and encouragement and answer questions if needed, but those are small next to the actual practicing.

[enigmatic]

23. You sound like a great teacher

Kudos to you:)

[aePrime]

25. I can only hope

It's hard to know when they don't ask questions in class, even under encouragement. :)

[obxhead]

40. bet you didn't expect a mini flame war here.

:hi: nice to meet ya.