Is it awful for me to say if I ever get Preggers that I'd give it up?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

I ask this because of a conversation I had with an old friend. I don't want a baby. I want to adopt an older child. There are too many children in this world for me to bring one into it. The discussion of adoption and abortion came up. I said, "I'm pro-choice for the rest of the world, but I don't think I could do it. But I will tell you that even though I will be married in two weeks, if I ever get pregnant, i will be giving it up for adoption." The girl went berserk. She thought it was just the most terrible thing she'd ever heard and nothing I could say would persuade her to consider my side of it. Am I terrible for never wanting to have to go thru the whole infant and toddler stage of life?
Duckie

[WindRavenX]

1. nope

I want to adopt too :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. No. You're terrible for not being exactly like her...

in her eyes that is. To me, you're just perfect. :hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

3. I think a lot of Moms are people to look up to, like you Laura...

Because I don't know how you got thru the first 3 years of the life of your children. And then had more. I just don't have the patients.
Duckie

[gollygee]

4. That's fine but

it seems odd to say there are too many children in this world so you'd adopt instead of having a baby, but then that if you got pregnant you'd put the baby up for adoption.

But whatever works for you. I had a baby but I'm only planning on the one. If I got pregnant again, though, I'd keep the baby.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. But there are people who would be happy with a baby...

I'd be happy with a kindergartener. I just dont' have the patience for the lack of sleep and the biting and the screaming...See where I'm going with this?
Duckie

[Tallison]

9. If you know this about yourself

then honor that instinct, especially if it leads away from the so-called norm, in which case it's probably coming from a very legitimate place.

[LisaL]

26. So, somebody has to raise that wonderful kindergartner for you,

and then you will get it, all ready made. I seriously think you are not being realistic about it. Sounds like you are planning on having a designer child, cause that is what you want. It doesn't work like that.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

53. Do you understand how many 5,6,7 year olds are out there who need a home?

And no one seems to want? THAT is the main reason I don't want to give birth.
Duckie

[LisaL]

67. I understand your desire to adopt a needy child.

I guess the confusion comes in from you saying you would want to give up your own child at the same time.

[gollygee]

69. That she would give up a baby because she doesn't have the patience

for a baby, yet she would have patience for a child who was taken away from his/her parents for some reason, or has been shuffled from foster home to foster home.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

74. It's been a freaky day.

I miswrote. Sorry. If I were to give a kid up, I wouldn't adopt one. I'd never have kids, adopted or not, after that.
Duckie

[LisaL]

81. I don't think you are a bad person. But I think you are confused

on what you would want to do regarding this whole children issue.
Sounds like you maybe want children but scared you couldn't handle it? Then adopting an older child, most likely with problems, is obviously not an answer. Like you yourself said, perhaps you just need to get older and then make a decision on what to do.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

84. Not confused...

Just badly expressing myself this evening.
Duckie

[CanuckAmok]

131. Sounds to me like she's mada a decision.

What's confusing? She doesn't want to raise an infant/toddler. Sounds perfectly sensible to me.

Not everybody wants to me "mommie". Some people just want to me "mom".

And others don't want to be either. Is that a problem, too?

[tigereye]

144. that stage doesn't last forever though

it has it's pleasant moments along with its exhausting ones... and my kid didn't bite, fortunately. ;)

[Tallison]

5. Not at all

I likewise don't see anything inconsistent about having once had an abortion and later wanting to adopt a child. People, along with what's right for them, change and grow throughout their lives, if they're lucky.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. I've never actually had an abortion...

but if I had, I'd make sure I never got pregnant again. I would adopt.
Duckie

[Tallison]

13. I know, but I have

and feel compelled for other women's sake to be frank about it. For me, it was the right thing at the time, and I would always want that choice available to other women.

I can envision adopting some day.

[raptor_rider]

89. I have had

an abortion, my first pregnancy. Totally my choich, against my parents wishes. I have had 2 miscarriages and then had my daughter, whom I would not give up for the world. (I was also a single mother with her for 6 years) I got married over a year ago and had gotten pregnant this last April. I miscarried in June. It was hard, however I also know that there will be a time, and that I will be able to have a child again.
I am totally pro-choice, however, I will never have another abortion myself. At 17, I would have not made a good mother. I made a good one at 21 and at 29, I am very willing to make another good one again.

[bicentennial_baby]

92. awwww

:hug:

[raptor_rider]

101. Thank you!!!

you are my loving spirit!!!!

:loveya:

[Tallison]

107. Thanks for sharing that

Women tell such interesting stories. Sometimes I think about compiling a book of women's accounts of the reproductive choices they've made, in their own words.

On edit: I mean the difficult reproductive choices they've made.

[tjdee]

7. Easier said that done, IMO...

Giving your baby up for adoption is probably one of the more selfless things a woman can do. From my own and others' experiences, it can also be very difficult to do. In general, making life decisions before they arise can be very "Famous last words". Curious, how does your husband feel about that? What if his opinion changes if you actually are pregnant?

If you can do it, good for you, I wouldn't think you were terrible at all. I'm kind of happy I'm past the diapers and not talking, myself.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

10. He doesn't want babies either.

If we could adopt a 10 year old with a penchant for Sci Fi, I think he'd be thrilled. He hasn't really ever been around small children. The ones he has been around love him to death, and he's good with them, but he's more into kids he can relate to. He worked in a Detention Center for a year and half, and he really liked it. He gets along well with adolescents.
Duckie

[tjdee]

11. Good luck to both of you....

I'm just saying that the reality may be different than the expectation. Maybe it won't, LOL! Either way I'm sure you'll both have a wonderful family regardless of what kind/when/who.

Congrats on your nuptials! :toast:

[LisaL]

32. You are imagining that 10 year old as some sort of an ideal

child, that won't be any trouble, and would love whatever it is you or your husband loves. Again, it doesn't work that way. There is nothing wrong with wanting to adopt, but it makes no sense whatsoever to want give up your own baby, yet adopt at the same time.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

43. No, I know they're trouble...

But they talk, can reason and you can get thru to them. I can deal with the mouth and whining. I don't know if I can deal with the no sleep and poop and diapers and all that stuff. I probably didn't express myself as well as I could have.
Duckie

[bicentennial_baby]

45. if you want an honest opinion

i'm gonna tell you, you should be a responsible adult and either get your tubes tied or have him get a vasectomy. It makes no sense whatsoever to me to want to help one of the many children who need to be adopted while at the same time wanting to put one more child into the system.

just my .02

[LisaL]

37. He doesn't want children. You don't want children. Tell him to

get a vasectomy, or have your tubes tied.

[skygazer]

12. Of course not

But no decision should be etched in stone - if the situation arose, you should make your decisions based on the circumstances at that time, not because of a decision you've made previously. Know what I mean?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

15. I know...

But I also have a friend who had a hysterectomy about five, six years ago. She would love another baby, but can't have them. I've always told her that she would be the first person asked if I ever got pregnant. And she's my best friend and a great mom. It would be hard, but honestly, I wouldn't trust myself. My mom was awful and rather than chance being that way with my kids, I'm just not going to have any that are under 5. I just don't want to treat a child the way we were treated by her. The story always getting deeper as we go along, huh? :evilgrin:
Duckie

[skygazer]

16. Of course it does

My daughter and I gave up my granddaughter for adoption - I have nothing but good feelings for those who adopt. For us, it was the right (although incredibly difficult) decision and in seven years, I've never had second thoughts about it. My granddaughter has a happy, loving family and my daughter was able to be a kid herself (and is now a successful adult who wants to adopt her own child someday).

It's a wise person who recognizes who they are. :hi:

[Left Is Write]

14. No, you are not terrible.

You may feel differently about any and all of your options if it ever does happen, though.

[GirlinContempt]

17. Yes. You're an awful person.

:P

[Aimah]

104. I don't think you're a terrible person...but

Just like yourself, I'm pro-choice but I don't think I'd decide to do that. Not every child gets adopted and there are a lot of horrible foster care homes. I'm not knocking foster care. My sister has foster children and we treat them as our own. We've adopted one of the kids. But some foster parents do it only for the money and they do the least that they can for the kids. A lot of kids live through the foster system going from home to home. They leave the system at 18 with no support system.

I'd only suggest that you try really hard not to have kids. Get your tubes tied if you really feel this way.

[LisaL]

18. I am a bit confused as to why someone would want to adopt, but

give up a baby at the same time. If you were dealing, let's say, with a cat, and claimed you would want to give up the cat you have, but get another one instead, you would be slammed. I would imagine you should take a baby a bit more seriously than that.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

44. If I gave up a child I probably wouldn't adopt...

But If I didn't, I would. I don't think I'd do both.
Duckie

[LisaL]

55. To me, it sounds like you are scared over raising the baby.

Perhaps because you didn't have a happy childhood. I don't think you will necessarily turn into your mother.

[Tallison]

108. Wow, that's kind of a loaded presumption

Are you psychic?

[kick-ass-bob]

112. Read post 15.

And if you have followed YRD's threads in the past, you would know a little background about it.

[Tallison]

116. I stand corrected

Apologies to lizzy.

[GOPisEvil]

19. If not for someone willing to give up their child, my life would be not

be the same.

Thanks to this woman, whoever she is, my life is MUCH better than it would have been.

So, no, it's not terrible to want to live your own life.

[faithnotgreed]

25. how sweet

but then you are sweet so it makes perfect sense

sending you a hug

[GOPisEvil]

71. Thanks.

I'll send a hug on back. :hug:

[RPM]

20. No - Good for you

Kudos for:
1) Having a plan
2) Using your rights in a way you see fit

[4_Legs_Good]

21. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me - everyone's different...

It might just be that your friend's "maternal" instincts are so strong that she can't fathom giving up a baby. I know some mothers who love pregnancy and the first year more than anything else in the world. I also know mothers who hate pregnancy, and some who don't much care for the first few years.

I *LOVE* being a father, it's the best thing EVER for me, but I applaud other people who don't feel the same way and who make their decisions based on who they are not what other people think they should be.

david

[SarahB]

22. No, it's not terrible to not want children.

If you are both sure, one or both of you should be sterilized though. Birth control isn't 100% effective and sterilization for the most part is close to being so. Then you won't have to worry about this hypothetical issue.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

46. Yeah, I just told him he needs to go ahead and get snipped...

He of course is thrilled. And that's not sarcasm.
Duckie

[liontamer]

23. my issue with adoption

you are bringing a child into the world and then taking no responsibility for its safety or general well being. It's true many wonderful people adopt children, and if your baby is a "high demand" baby (i.e. healthy and not biracial), it is very likely that he or she will go to a good home. But what if he or she doesn't. You've then essentially created a human being and washed your hands of him or her.

[LisaL]

24. Exactly. And if she was talking about giving up a kitten or a puppy,

she would not be getting the same responses "it's great, go for it".
Now, she is talking about a baby, so, if you have the baby, be grown up enough to take care of him/her. It's silly to want a ready made child over five years old, but not the baby.

[bicentennial_baby]

27. here we go!

:popcorn: who didn't see this coming?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

64. Ready made child?

No i'm talking about a child who is 5 and being shuffled around from foster home to foster home. I don't want a five year old because it's a ready made child. God, If I made myself sound that idiotic, I didn't mean to.
Duckie

[YellowRubberDuckie]

48. My best friend already said that she'd take my baby if I got pg...

I'm not worried about the child having a good childhood. She's an extraordinary mother. I would never go into a situation like that blindly.
Duckie

[ulysses]

99. that's an issue with sex, not with adoption.

:shrug:

[liontamer]

105. how so?

most of us have sex all the time without creating children that we give to others to raise

[ulysses]

106. from your previous post

you are bringing a child into the world and then taking no responsibility for its safety or general well being.

That can happen independent of adoption. In fact, adoption very often IS the taking of that responsibility on the part of a birthparent, by placing the child with someone who is more capable of raising it.

most of us have sex all the time without creating children that we give to others to raise

Accidents happen. As pro-choice as I am, are we now in the business of demanding abortions in the case of unwanted pregnancies?

[gollygee]

28. I've got to be honest

It sounds kind of immature. 5-year-olds aren't easy. Kids aren't easy at any age, they just have different difficult stages depending on the age. If you want a kid but you don't want the hard parts, then you don't want a kid at all.

I don't mean to be harsh but I feel some odd need to be honest about this issue.

[gollygee]

30. This is meant to be a reply to #6

but I put it in the wrong spot :blush:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

52. I understand that they aren't easy...

But they can be reasoned with and made to understand things. I'm impatient and I couldn't deal with a two year old. I know having a kid is hard. I'm not an idiot. My main point is that there are so many older kids who no one seems to want that it's silly for me to even think about giving birth when we have so much love to give a child.
Duckie

[tigereye]

145. well. like a friend on mine said when our son was small

"you find patience you didn't know you had."

Once you have a baby, the bonding instinct is very strong. You'd be surprised. Anyway, you aren't even married yet, and you've got lots of time. I agree that teens are easier in some ways, but all kids have their gifts.

[suzbaby]

29. I think it's admirable to adopt a child.

My aunt and uncle had to adopt because they couldn't have a child of their own and their daughter is the apple of their eye.
However, I don't really understand how you could (hypothetically) give up your own flesh and blood because you don't have the patients for diapers. I truly don't mean to attack, but what would you say to that child if ever came back to find you as an adult. "Sorry kid, but it just seemed like a real pain in the ass to raise a baby. So I got rid of you and adopted a ten year old instead." How do you think that child would feel?
I mean, sure your child would probably be adopted, but how could you turn it away simply because the first few years of raising a child are going to be tough? It just seems like such a shallow reason. Plus, being a parent is tough no matter how old the child is.
I read that you are afraid of repeating the mistakes of your own mother....but how would that be any different with an older child?

I'm truly sorry if I hurt you with this opinion, but when you asked I figured you might be willing to hear a dissenting opinion.

I do admire your intention to adopt. That is one of the most wonderful things a person can do. I just don't understand how you could give your own child up for adoption because of the reason you listed. There are other reasons I can understand and empathize with. But not this one.

[grannylib]

31. Not at all. You are the one that knows best what you can/can't handle,

and if one can't be true to oneself, it's pretty hard to be true to another, be that other parent, spouse, child, friend...
If you are not willing/able to give 110% to a child, I think the most loving option is to allow someone else the opportunity.
As both an adoptee and a birth-mom of a child I gave up, I have only good things to say about adoption.

[sniffa]

33. why bother - just get an abortion

do you reaLLy want stretch marks?

[bicentennial_baby]

34. ...

:spray:

[Tallison]

110. For what it's worth...

I'm assuming you're not satirizing the attitudes of women who've had abortions here, right?

[tigereye]

146. you have to consider the source

...

[Tallison]

147. Sorry...

could you elaborate, if in a PM? I'm regrettably missing the jist...

[raptor_rider]

35. If you want to adopt

instead of having children, with all of the children needing to be adopted, why not prevent yourself with getting pregnant with either getting your tubes tied or having him getting snipped?? If you both, as a couple, do not want to chance getting pregnant, why not take permanent prevention and take care of the matter and then adopt? Why put more children into the system for adoption??

[bicentennial_baby]

36. thank you!

:applause:

[raptor_rider]

Thank you for

the Thank you!! Just think that if people want to adopt and do not want to have children of their own, get fixed to where this country is not over populated with children in need of loving families!!

:hi:

[LisaL]

38. Where are all these children wanting to be adopted?

I know people are having a horrible time with trying to adopt.
It's expensive, it takes a lot of paperwork, etc.

[bicentennial_baby]

40. oh, please tell me you are kidding!

:wow:

[LisaL]

41. No, I am not kidding. People wouldn't be spending thousands of

dollars on foreign adoptions, if US was full of children wanting to be adopted.

[bicentennial_baby]

42. Bullshit

Did you ever think it might be b/c: A) US adoption regs are more stringent than many other countries, and B) a lot of people simply aren't willing to adopt biracial children, disabled children, etc. ?

[bliss_eternal]

49. I've got to back bicentennial_baby on this one...

First of all, children aren't 'wanting to be adopted.' They are put up for adoption--they have little choice in the matter.

Secondly--it wouldn't take a great deal of time or effort to find out the true stats of adoption. There are many, many children--OLDER children that are stuck in the foster care system because NO ONE wants to adopt them.

1. Some of these children are:

2. biracial, multi-racial, or ethnic.

3.Older than infants or toddlers--most people want infants or toddlers.

4.Were born drug exposed--meaning their mother was on drugs or an alcoholic--again, not many want a child born with such a condition.

5.Children born with AIDS.

Just because you disagree with the original posters choice, does not give you the right to make judgements on her decision, based on your own preferences. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

But we are all different here. Everyone is entitled to their own choice. Personally, given the above FACTS, I think what she wants to do is admirable and incredibly unselfish.

I would think that people that are members of a 'progressive' board would be more open and understanding of others choices and not so quick to condemn them, because it is not a choice you would make personally.

I hope that you can excuse my tone. I mean no disrespect. I am just getting really tired to people on this board mistreating other members for expressing 'different' or 'alternative' views. It's not very respectful, courteous or kind in many instances, and I really don't like seeing it. Not saying this was the case here, just saying in general.

[bicentennial_baby]

54. thank you for putting it much more eloquently than i could

:)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

68. I never understood why biracial children are hard to place.

They are smart, sweet and beautiful children just begging for you to love them. Just like any other child.
Duckie

[bliss_eternal]

79. Sadly

too many people make choices based on appearance, and nothing more. They would rather have a child that LOOKS like themselves or one they feel is 'socially acceptable' more than giving a child a home.

Just my opinion, of course.

[intheflow]

96. I don't know about now,

but when I was lookin gin to this in Massachusetts in the late '80's/early '90s, the State had strict regulations about families adopting outside their own race. The idea was that I and my partner, as a white couple, wouldn't be able to expose our child to its black heritage and culture. Therefore, the kid would grow up completely fucked up. :eyes:

As if a lifetime spent a ward of the State isn't going to mess with your head! :grr:

I have to say, though, that I've heard those laws have been changed in Massachusetts.

[Tallison]

113. I imagine the stats differ significantly

according to the following variables:

-Healthy minority children under a year old v. school age v. adolescent
-Minority children with health issues
-Minority children with mental health issues

Generally, the older the child available for adoption, the more mental health issues they're likely to have due to bonding complications with caregivers.

Anyone have stats?

[LisaL]

50. Whatever it is, adoption is obviously not a walk in the park.

It's not like going to a supermarket and picking up a perfect 10 year old, ready to go.

[bicentennial_baby]

56. hey, if you were paying attention, you'd see

that you and i are somewhat in agreement on this. I simply disagreed with your assertion about adoption in America. Otherwise, I think we feel similarly. :)

[raptor_rider]

61. I agree

with that statement. From reading about another DU'ers experience with adoption, him and his wife have been to hell and backa nd finally, finally, a wonderful blessing has been laid upon them.

[intheflow]

94. People want to adopt babies.

And babies only. There are thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of older kids in the foster care system who are available for adoption.

[Tallison]

114. Right, and...

the older the child, the likelier they are to have mental health issues due to erratic bonding patterns with previous caregivers. Very, very sad and challenging cases for any future caregiver.

[intheflow]

124. Hence, why people only want to adopt babies.

You hit the nail on the head.

[Tallison]

148. There you go

From my professional experience, most kids on in-patient child psych units are either adopted, foster kids, or up for adoption. Tragic shit.

On edit: I wish I was wrong about this fact.

[raptor_rider]

57. Check Foster Care

There are a lot of children in the government hands in the foster care system. Here is where there are parents do not care for their "older" children and the government has not let loose of them yet. I am not working with a man whose family are foster parents of a couple of children, and that have adopted one. They are working on the others, however the "system working for the deadbeat parents that lead them into the foster care" is fighting them for the adoptions.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

59. That's where we are going to start...

We'll buy a house in a few years and then get trained.
Duckie

[raptor_rider]

73. I applaud you on that

:applause:

Please consider prevention of pregnancy. I know that there are many people looking for infants to adopt, however there are so many unwanted older children in this world.

I also want to congratulate you on your upcoming nuptials!!!
:loveya:

[bicentennial_baby]

60. 523,000 as of 2003

children in foster care in the U.S. , that is. very sad, i think. x(

[YellowRubberDuckie]

58. He's getting snipped.

He's been talking about it for years. I resisted. Now it's come to the point where I do not want to give birth. He's going to get it done.
Duckie

[bicentennial_baby]

63. ok, now i'm confused

now it's that you don't want to give birth? or you don't want to change diapers, as you said upthread? or not get any sleep? or...what? you seem to be unsure about your reasons, or else you have a lot of them...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

80. I don't want to give birth...

The other stuff was me rambling.
Duckie

[bicentennial_baby]

83. May I ask why?

Just curious, no flames. :)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

87. A lot of my work friends are giving birth...

And all I hear are HORROR stories about them. And I don't think I'm the right kind of person to have a baby. My mother fucked me UP, and I really don't think it would be fair to do that to another kid. That's why I don't need a baby. If it were an older child, I don't think I would mess him up nearly as bad. :shrug:
God I really just cannot express myself this evening. I'm going to quit trying.
Duckie

[bicentennial_baby]

88. Hey

:hug: I can tell that you're feeling kinda yucky about this thread. It's hard to put yourself out there like you have, risking the flames and all that. It's ok, we still love ya, even of some of us may disagree with you on certain things, 'k?

and another for good measure :hug:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

90. It's not helping that today has been frazzling.

I'm really not expressing myself well tonight. Thanks for understanding.
Duckie

[bicentennial_baby]

91. We all have those days

I know I have! :D

Whatever you decide to do, I'm sure you'll make the correct decision for you and your family. :)

[raptor_rider]

102. Oh Sweetie!!!

There are plenty of "Horror Stories" of giving birth. I can admit, that yes, the pain is real and so very strong. The worst that you will ever feel, giving that death is worse than that. I had no pain meds and I went through the easiest birth that all that I have heard, and let me tell you, that once you look at the little one's face, you are in love.

Giving up for adoption will not for be for you hon. Take it from one that was going to. I would not give up my daughter for the world. It all seems to be a dream when you find you are pregnant, however when feel that baby move inside of you for the first time, it all becomes real. I just ask you to think. That is all. If he wants to be snipped, then all power to you!

Accidents happen, I am a product of one of them!!

[electron_blue]

39. I don't understand why you'd want to adopt an older kid

but give one up for adoption.

I mean, I can understand the sentiment, in fact I used to express my overall child desire that way. But at the time I was thinking that by adopting an older child, I'd avoid the whole tiresome mess of the young child. But every age has trials & tribulations, as you no doubt are aware.

No flames here, but I don't get it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. I agree. It doesn't make sense on some levels to me either. At that point

it's kind of like trading one kid in for another one.

If it was me I would want to keep the baby AND adopt some other kids. :)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

72. I worded myself wrong.

if I had a kid, I wouldn't adopt one, but I would give it up. I'm freaked my small kids that I am responsible for alone. There I said it. I wasn't a very good babysitter when I was a teen.
Duckie

[GreenPartyVoter]

95. Psst.. I have a secret to tell ya... *g*

Those babies grow up really fast and you'd have an older kid before you knew it. :)

I babysat from the time I was 11. I got my degree in elementary education and planned on teaching very young kids.

My mother came to stay with me when I had my first son. When her week of staying with me was over I :cry: like crazy because I was _terrified_ that I couldn't do it on my own. She cried too but had to go back home to work and promised me that I could handle it.

And I did.

And now I laugh that after 15 years of experience taking care of other peoples' kids from babies on up that I was so panicked about taking care of mine. And my husband, who never really got into babies and who still doesn't like _other_ people's babies was head over heels in love with ours.

[gollygee]

51. Also, kids waiting to be adopted aren't in a vacuum

If a child is 5 and is needing adoptive parents, there is some reason for that which likely involves some kind of special needs, physical and/or emotional. I think these children would need even more patience than a baby.

One other thing, some day these hypothetical children would grow up and have questions. What will be your answers? "I didn't want to have to deal with diaper changes so I gave you up and got a 5-year-old instead." Or to the one you adopted, "I didn't want to have too much trouble so I got rid of the baby and got you."

:/ The more I think about it the more it bothers me.

[tjdee]

65. Same here.

The more I think about it, the stranger it sounds....but hey, JMO.

[tjdee]

62. Being pregnant isn't a happy fun shop either, btw....

Just occurred to me what some others have said--why not just get your tubes tied/your guy get a vasectomy?

Seems kind of strange to go through all 9 months of pregnancy, labor, etc...to then give up your child, maybe to your best friend (that may create lots more issues, seeing your kid grow up so closely--when your child *is* 10, and you go gee, that's the exact kind of kid I'd want...just the right age...)

Now that I'm thinking about it actually, that does sound stranger to me than it did before. But you know yourself and your soon to be hubby better than I do... and I still wouldn't think you were terrible.

on edit: LOL, if your soon to be hubby's getting snipped, what's all this talk about anyhoo!!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

70. Oh, there was a scare a few months back.

It was really trippy. :scared:
Duckie

[bliss_eternal]

75. Because apparently

progressive are lacking in the ability to actually READ threads while they are responding to them. They just get stuck on REACT and STUN.

:grr:

:hi: Hi, tjdee!

[MrSlayer]

66. I think it's crazy myself.

But whatever works for you. I could not fathom giving up my flesh and blood while bringing in an older stranger simply because I didn't want to change diapers or hear crying. You put kids up for adoption because you simply can't afford them, aren't ready to handle them or they have no one else to care for them, not because you don't want to go through the terrible twos. The idea is sick to me.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

77. I wouldn't do it all in the same week...

Jeez. I'm not that big of an idiot. If I ever did give up a child, I probably wouldn't adopt another older child. If I did decide to do that, it'd be ten years later when i'm more ready, grown up.
Duckie

[MrSlayer]

78. Well save everyone the grief and use birth control.

Which I'm sure you do and the whole situation is hypothetical anyway.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

82. We're always doubled, sometimes triple protected...

We're not taking any chances.
Duckie

[MrSlayer]

86. Haha. Good for you.

Good luck in your marriage.

[Az]

76. I differ with your position

But you are not required to agree with me. I am prochoice and proabortion in situations where the baby is not wanted or desired at the time place or situation. I do not believe it is in any way murder or killing or any of that nonsense (my words not required to be yours).

But I will say this. The act of creating a person is the single most responsibility laden descision a person can make. You are making a human being. If you can't handle or don't want to handle the burden think very very seriously about getting an abortion. While putting a baby into the adoption process is not a guarantee of misery it is not taking responsibility for your descision to make a human being.

And placing the child into the adoption process simply because you want a later model does not alleviate the matter in any way. You have a net gain/loss of zero children in the system. You have just shifted the responsibility to someone else.

[bliss_eternal]

85. I like the way you put this...

interesting aspects to consider on all points. Well said, too.

I've worked closely with social workers that followed children in foster care. Such a difficult and horrible system in some cases. Some states and cities are better than others on that front, but it's a system nevertheless...

[Elidor]

93. Watch out for "adoption agencies"

Many of them are run by so-called "Christian" organizations, and prey on young women who have little money and almost no clue what their options are. They exert tremendous pressure on women at the most vulnerable moments of their young lives. Don't trust anyone who wants your baby. Get everything in writing. Get a lawyer before you take such a step. Don't trust ANYONE.

I'm assuming you know enough to use protection at the appropriate times. If you can do that religiously, unwanted babies should never be a problem, though there are always...*accidents*...to watch out for.

[Dangerously Amused]

97. Review:

She does not want to get pregnant. Source: Original post.

If she doesn't get pregnant, she wishes to adopt an older child. Source: Original post.

But if she does get pregnant, she doesn't want to get an abortion. Source: Original post.

If she delivers a baby, she wishes to give it up for adoption because she feels she can't handle taking care of a baby. Source: Original post.

If she has a baby and gives it up for adoption, she will not also adopt a child. Source: Post # 74.

SHE never said that if she had a baby and gave it up, she would also adopt an older child.
These are words others have twisted and attributed to her, and are now arguing. Source: All posts.


People, you are arguing over a premise which doesn't even exist! Let's work a little harder on our Reading for Comprehension skills, okay?

[ulysses]

98. not awful in the least.

:)

[catmother]

100. preggers

i don't know how old you are, but if you're very very sure that you don't want to raise a child, you might think about having yourself "fixed". i've raised a child and i can tell you it is the hardest job in the world. so no, you are not awful.

[Greyhound]

103. Not at all terrible, but I do have a question.

Why go through the pain & trauma of a pregnancy, if you don't want a child?

[Shell Beau]

111. She said she didn't think she could ever have an abortion.

[Shell Beau]

109. It is your choice so I don't think you are wrong or bad.

But I can't say I see the point. You want to give a child a chance and a home by adopting and that is wonderful. But by giving your child up, you are potentially putting it in the same situation as the one you plan on adopting. You can do both. But it is your decision. And whatever your heart tells you, I suspect is what you should do! I personally couldn't do what you would do. But we are different. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I'm just being honest.

On edit, I just skimmed through the first time. I didn't realize you didn't think you could handle a toddler. I thought you just wanted to give an older kid a home. Um, I think that is kind of immature. I mean, a lot of bonding occurs during the stages where they are totally dependant on you. But I still stand by everything I said. Even though it is hard for me to fathom personally.


:)

[uppityperson]

115. That's why it is called "choice".

You sound like many people I know. And the world needs people who can be involved with kids yet not be their primary parent. It is good to know how you are, accept it and get on with life.Some people just must judge others. Her problem.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

117. This sounds extremely immature to me.

From here, and granted, I've only got a paragraph to go on, it sounds like you want to just take the high road and only want a kid upon your own terms of convenience and ease. That sounds far less like you have the interests of a child (whether your own or adopted) in mind and far more like your own take absolute precedence. That's most definitely not a healthy attitude to take for parenting.

[Dora]

118. No, not terrible. But I don't think you've thought it out very well.

If you know you don't have the patience for raising a child through the infant and toddler years, then it doesn't logically follow that adopting an older child would be easier.

If you adopt a child who's been a ward of the state, please keep in mind that many or most of these kids have come from backgrounds of neglect, poverty, mental illness, drug and alcohol abuse... I could go on, but I won't. These children will have emotional and behavioral issues that would be far more challenging than a toddler's "terrible twos."

I am not saying these children don't deserve adoption into a loving home. I'm saying that if adoptive parents know they don't have the patience for a baby, then they wouldn't have the patience for an eight year old with fetal alcohol syndrome, or a four year old tortured by nightmares of sexual abuse, or a ten year old who is legally blind because of poor prenatal care.... again, the list goes on.

A baby cannot act of its own will. That's great for parents when we're first starting out. We can feed, bathe, clothe, and love a baby without it arguing, protesting, struggling, or running away. As a child grows and learns to act on its own desires, we learn how to deal with those actions based on what we learned in its infancy. Parenting is a series of lessons, each one built upon the one before. If you haven't the patience to learn the lessons of early childhood development and parenting, then what makes you think that the later years will be easier?

In short, I think you're romanticizing childhood and parenting too. That's not terrible, but I hope that it doesn't lead you to make any decisions you would come to regret later.

[pitohui]

119. is that even legally allowed?

it is never terrible to say what you feel but i doubt you would be allowed to give up a child if you were legally married

my friend became overwhelmed & tried to give up her children after her husband died, the parish said they would take them but they would also be required to prosecute her for neglect -- & this a widow!

i feel if you dislike babies, don't have them, we do have the technology, but plenty of people would call me "terrible" for stating my feeling

a feeling is just a feeling, we all have them

do what you must & good luck

[Left Is Write]

125. I can't imagine it being illegal to give up one's child for adoption.

Married or not.

Abandonment and neglect are other issues.

[pitohui]

128. all i know is what the sheriff said

in her case it would be legally considered neglect to give the children up, it would indeed be charged as abandonment

if you plan to give your kids up, you'd better have a plan in place to do that before they are born or immediately thereafter

afterward it is too late

if you are ill, overwhelmed, & try to arrange to put them in foster care, you could be charged

that's what they told her anyway :shrug:

admittedly the sheriff in this equation is the awful harry lee of jefferson parish, louisiana, so who even knows if they could get away w. this elsewhere

[Left Is Write]

129. If she just left them on someone's doorstep, that would be abandonment.

I don't see how giving them up to an adoption agency or arranging an adoption through an attorney or the state could possibly be considered abandonmenet.

What the sheriff told your friend sounds awfully fishy.

[Shell Beau]

133. It's not abandonment per say, but

I know some adopted people who are thankful for their families, but feel like they are missing a piece of themselves. And what about those kids who don't get adopted. I bet they feel abandoned. Just sayin'. I don't really consider it total abandonment, but it is in a sense. Although a lot of people who do give up their children made the best choice they could. I am certainly not knocking those who gave up for adoption. To me, in most cases, it is a brave thing to do.

[Left Is Write]

134. I am talking about "abandonment" in the legal definition.

Regarding whether it is legal or not to place one's children for adoption.

I am not referring in any way to emotional abandonment.

[Shell Beau]

137. Oh! Then yep, you are right!

[Shell Beau]

138. I misspelled per se! Oops.

[radwriter0555]

120. Nah, it's a terrifying thing to anticipate if you're not ready. Oddly,

when you are ready is when it doesn't seem like such a bad thing.

I liked the baby, toddler stage a lot and I never wanted kids. (However, I can't stand anyone else's.) I made a conscientious decision when I found out I was pregnant and weighed all my odds. Having my kid changed my life and probably, egads, I can only hope, for the better. She made me make adult decisions based on her needs, not on what I could do to get by. I had to plan for the future. Luckily, apparently, I'm pretty good at it or something.

The point is, the baby stage is kind of cool, people are just whimps. It's not a big deal to wake up every couple hours for a few weeks, the key is to relax and take it all in stride. It's not that hard. Diapers get real easy if you just follow a system, feeding is hysterical, breast feeding SUCKS, literally, I hated it... and no fussy phase lasts more than a couple weeks.

Sorry, I shouldn't try to sell you on the merits of babies, but I will however really really hope that you will adopt or foster some older kids that could use the apparent tremendous amount of love you have to give... congrats on the marriage!!!!

[AirmensMom]

121. If you don't want a baby or toddler,

TRUST ME, you don't want a teenager. Babies and toddlers are physically exhausting -- all the feedings and diapers, loss of sleep, etc. Teenagers mess with your head, which is emotionally exhausting. Give me a two-year-old over a 16-year-old any day of the week.

I don't think you're terrible ... I'm just puzzled. I think it's great that you want to adopt. I don't understand why you would give up your own baby in order to avoid a few short (VERY short) years. But it's your choice. I hope your fiance knows how you feel so you're on the same page about it. :shrug:

[hunter]

132. You are so right...

When my kids were small I could just pick them up and solve the problem, no matter how awful they were.

My teenagers, oh man yes, emotionally exhausting, and so much more difficult than two-year-olds.

Teenagers know where all your hot buttons are, and they are all too ready to push them.

[AirmensMom]

136. Mine made it their mission

to try to convince me I was losing my mind. We joke about it now (they're 26 and 28). Best piece of advice I ever got: When I asked a friend how we would ever come out of it liking each other, he said that was asking way too much. Just come out of it with everyone alive ... and if we like each other, it's a bonus. That sure went a long way towards doing what was good for them instead of trying to be their friends! But it sure was exhausting.

Bill Cosby said that you're in big trouble if you can't control your two-year-old. You say, "come here!" He says, "NO!" Then you go over and get him ... that's "YES!" Those were the good ol' days!

:hi:

[William Bloode]

122. Dupe

Sorry.

[William Bloode]

123. I think you have a bit of twisted thinking myself.

Do not delude yourself into thinking that an older child would be easier to take care of. You could in fact have much more trouble raising an older child. The infant, toddler stage is not that bad really, it's peaches next to teens. Raising kids is equally hard no matter what age, it's just each age has a different set of hurdles.

Also don't delude yourself into thinking you will just give up any child you had naturally. My last son i was set against. I had not wanted another child as i felt too old for any more. I was distraught the whole time my wife was carrying. I was very resentful. Even to the point i did not go to the hospital for the birth. It all changed when i saw him and i held him. It brought back feelings i had not had in years since our other children had been babies. I forgot the over whelming sense of love and bonding you get when you see and hold your baby for the 1st time. In the space of less than 5 seconds i went from ardent critic, to totally bowled over by love.

I don't think you are wrong for what you are thinking. I just think you are not thinking it all the way through, or accounting for all possibilities.

Oh and when i said twisted thinking in my title, i don't mean twisted as in evil. But more along the lines of twisted from a skewed point of view.

[noonwitch]

126. Nope, your action would lead to another family's great joy

Lots of people want to adopt newborns.

If you really want to parent an older child and are very patient, consider being a foster parent. The state will pay you to do it, and if you can deal with extreme behavior of children who sometimes have been badly mistreated, they need you. Just keep in mind what some of that behavior involves-temper tantrums, stealing and hording food, broken furniture and bric a brac, unabashed public masturbation, smearing feces on the walls, and worse.

It needs to be pointed out that these are kids who have been mistreated and abused, and sometimes moved from other homes due to their behavior. They do the most awful and disgusting things they can think of to see if you will accept them or reject them. Not all foster kids do these things, but foster parents need to understand going in that even the cutest little 3 year old is capable of doing some pretty terrible things.

[Bridget Burke]

127. If you really don't want a baby, get your tubes tied.

You would save a lot of drama that way.

[SoCalDem]

130. Never say never..

I know lots of people who said they never wanted children, but they changed their mind.. There is just something about having a little person growing inside you for all those months,...wondering who it will look like, and what color hair it will have..

The baby-toddler stage does not last nearly as long as it should (my favorite part)..and before you know it, you have your very own homegrown "older child"..

You can alwys adopt, even if you do have your own biological kids..:)

Congrats on your marriage :)

[newportdadde]

135. Personally I've loving the toddler stage!

Sure my son has temper tantrums etc sometimes, well all have our bad days, but to hear him yell down 'Dada Dada!" when I get home or have me pick him up and fly him through the house humming the Superman theme.. I can't imagine missing out on those times.

I was never really into kids but I'm having the time of my life in so many ways.

[Beausoir]

139. It's not an "it".

You act as if you have no choice in the matter.

Try this one...DON'T get pregnant. You do understand how people get pregnant, right? So..don't.

I have 5 children, all of whom were adopted at birth, some with special needs.
Adoption is a beautiful way to build a family but it's not like going to the pound and picking out a stray cat.

It's MUCH more difficult that just deciding you want to adopt and then presto! a child lands on your doorstep.

I learned a LONG time ago not to listen to anyone who has opinions on adoption if they haven't actually adopted a child.


And the correct terminology to use is "make an adoption plan" or "place for adoption". "Give it up" is an insult.

[Samurai_Writer]

140. You have no idea what you would go through

I'm a birthmother and for 27 years I have been living with grief, pain, regret, and shame. This casual attitude about adoption shows that you really haven't thought about it.

Read these websites, and then see if you are so nonchalant about surrendering your child for adoption.

http://www.exiledmothers.com/adoption_facts/adoption_industry.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2991/

[Beausoir]

143. Thank you for that post!

Too often the birthparents get completely left out of the equation.

I am sorry for what you have been through.

Sometimes, the cavalier attitude about adoption on this forum really astonishes me.

[Samurai_Writer]

149. Thanks for your response

I agree with you... most of the time, I put all adoption threads on ignore, because it's a painful subject for me, and I get sick of the 'Adoption is great! Yay adoption!' attitude here with no regard for the women who in many cases were coerced or forced to surrender their children.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

141. The toddler stage is entirely

different when it is your own child and not somebody else's stinky, sticky, noisy kid!

But adoption is a fine thing, too.

Be flexible. You might think differently as you get older.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

142. Don't have kids

Don't adopt any kids.

If you think the infant and toddler stages are difficult, you are missing out that they are the easiest times.

You might want to try being a Big Sister for a while, to see what kinds of needs kids have at different ages.

But, if you really want to experience what motherhood involves when the child is past the toddler stage, become a foster parent.

You're not terrible. You've just been misinformed. Try raising an adolescent, or even a pre-pubescent kid, and you'll yearn for the days of infancy.

I'm curious, though. What does your future husband think of your already-made decision to give up his child?

I'm also curious as to why you don't get your tubes tied. That's a good way to avoid the pregnancy issue and duck completely the dilemma you might face with an unwanted child.

This has to be one of the most provocative and fascinating posts I've ever seen on DU. Thank you.