Seeing a chiropractor? Please DON'T:

[Deja Q]

Keep in mind I had a disc wedged into my cervical spine for well over a year thanks to a !&@^#%$ chiropractor... I implore you NOT to seek the "services" of those quacks.

http://science-education.nih.gov/nihHTML/ose/snapshots/multimedia/ritn/spinal/happens.html

Excerpts:

The early events that follow a spinal cord injury can lead to other kinds of damage later on. Within weeks or months, cysts often form at the site of injury and fill with cerebrospinal fluid, the clear, watery fluid that surrounds the brain and spinal cord. Typically, scar tissue develops around the cysts, creating permanent cavities that can elongate and further damage nerve cells. Also, nerve cell axons that were not damaged initially often lose their myelin, a white, fatty sheath that normally surrounds groups of axons and enhances the speed of nerve impulses.

Over time, these and other events can contribute to more tissue degeneration and a greater loss of function. Scientists are trying to understand how this complex series of disruptive events occurs so they can find ways to prevent and treat it. They are also trying to identify treatments that will enhance some of the normal -- but often limited -- kinds of recovery that can occur after a spinal cord injury.


snip

Although scientists are beginning to understand the cellular and molecular events that occur after spinal cord injury, one question continues to dominate the research: Why don't the brain and spinal cord repair themselves? (emphasis added)

[Richard Steele]

1. Your bad experience doesn't make them all "Quacks".

There are PLENTY of Quacks who have "M.D." after their names, you know.

[Deja Q]

2. I've just had a lot of bad experiences.

It's hard to find decent ones; I have a coworker who had seen MANY doctors in local town... fed up, she went to the Mayo in Rochester. And the McDoctors are definitely not worth the high prices they demand. (so it's not just me...)

[chknltl]

3. I STRONGLY disagree about chiropractors being quacks!!!

Sorry friend, you are my fellow DUer so it pains me to disagree with you this strongly.
I started out calling them back quacks as well, guess what, a FEW of them are just that. I will not detail the VERY remarkable repairs upon my spine which were performed by one of the majority of competent Chiropractors. I will tell you that chiropractic is a blessing to all humanity, one which is now and has been in the past under attack by those who seek to profit from it's demise. (Pharmaceutical companies for starts...)

Although I have not clicked your posted link, what you have snipped out agrees pretty much with what I have been taught by Chiropractors. Subluxations, (misalignments of vertebrae due to external injury), DO cause further degenerations to the spine and nervous system, your snippets detail that much. Chiropractic seeks to reverse this process through non-invasive means, namely placing the subluxations back in place. With time, frequent visits and exercise these subluxations often will dissapear.

I suggest if you have had problems with a specific Chiropractor then you should seek legal action. If you can, first consult with other Chiropractors in your area, discuss with them what happened to you and ask after their own advice on what may have gone wrong and how to proceed from this. Any competent doctor in any field will always advise you to second and third opinions, this is what I am recommending.

These second and third opinions may prove valuable if you do decide to take this to court. If this particular Chiropractor is a known bad apple you might find yourself with some powerful allies in that courtroom, namely honest professional specialists in the field! At worst you will find yourself learning more about this field of Chiropractic.

I firmly believe in the healing powers of Chiropractic. I also firmly believe that all members of the Democratic Underground are my allies. I am giving you this advice as if I were giving it to a friend. It is my hope that you can use this advice to get better informed, and perhaps remove one of the "bad" chiropractors, (if that be the case). Good luck HypnoToad

[yvr girl]

4. I disagree

I had a back injury that I was going to physiotherapy for over 3 months with only marginal improvement. I still had pins and needles in my hand from a lower back injury, among other symptoms.

I switched to a chiropractor and was almost 100% within a few weeks.

[AngryAmish]

11. You cannot have pins and needles in your hand from a lower back injury

The nerves that go to your hand your hands do not go through your lower back.

[yvr girl]

21. The spasm in my lower back

messed up my upper back. The resulting spasm in the shoulder blade area effected my arm and hand.

[alarcojon]

5. I have no problem with chiropractors as long as they stick to the spine

The ones who claim to be able to cure all sorts of other stuff by spinal manipulation are, indeed, quacks.

[Floogeldy]

6. Chiropractors have their place.

But always seek the advice of an MD.

Don't slander a whole profession based upon what could be your own negligence in seeking treatment.

[AccessGranted]

7. I've used a Chiropractor twice with Great Success!

About 10 years ago I had a slipped disk and they kept saying I needed surgery. I went to a Chiropractor for about 6 weeks and it was perfectly fine. Never had another problem until recently. About a month ago I bent down and picked up a big box of books and magazine and ripped the muscles in my back and my left thigh so bad the left side of my body locked up and I couldn't walk. Had to be taken to the emergency room in the fetal position screaming. The emergency room gave me a shot and prescribed Valiums and 800 mg Ibuprofen. Told me I needed physical therapy and that I needed to stay home and not move for about 2 weeks. The next day I had my fiance take me to highly recommended Chiropractor. I walked in on crutches in excruciating pain and after one session I "walked" out of his office with major relief. After 4 sessions my back was perfectly fine. I didn't have to take any more drugs or have physical therapy. Also, one of my legs was shorter than the other. He re-aligned everything. I'm straight now. I love Chiropractors! You just have to check out their credentials and get some references. Also, where I live they are required to take mandatory classes monthly in order to maintain their licenses.

[chaska]

8. Quack? I don't know but....

an ex-GF got hit by a car and had some pain. Went to Chiro, he tells her how out of whack her body is (one shoulder too high, crooked spine, etc., none of it related to the accident). I went with her once and I swear to god all he was doing was zapping her with some little gun along her spine. He was just tapping her on the back with this gun that had all the force of thwacking someone with your middle finger.

She didn't go back after that.

Oh, and before the session he made us and some others sit through some weird ass presentation on chiropractic. I think he must have been practicing for some conference or something. But I felt like I was being inducted into a cult. Weird shit.

[Floogeldy]

9. Muscle stimulation with electronics

It is an accepted practice in the medical fields.

[chknltl]

17. That is a tool used by many Chiropractors.

It is too bad that the one visit you had did not come with an education into just what that tool was doing and why. Many of the better Chiropractors go through great lengths to educate their patients. I had one who did this for me which is why I am such a strong advocate of Chiropractic. That gun with its little taps is used to gently push vertebrae back in place. Believe it or not, that is all the force required to push a vertebrae out of place too.

This gun was used to help realign my spine after I had trauma to it which came close to killing me back in the late '70s. I was almost accidental hung...the damage to my upper vertebrae was significant.
That particular damage to my neck, quite visible in x-rays then, is not noticeable in x-rays today. Chiropractic and that little popping gun did this for me. It took a couple of years of Chiropractic care to get to where I am today.

Because of my moving to a different city I have had to find a different Chiropractor, I have gone through 3 now. I have not ditched them for their work, I just felt that they were too busy for a decent program of education to their patients. (A money oriented problem many of the practitioners seem to have). I have learned enough about the profession to prefer a Chiropractor who can spare the time to enlighten us as to what he is doing and why. My latest one is like this although he prefers to use his hands over that gun.

[radwriter0555]

18. I've been using the activator method for almost 10 years. It's kept me

out of a wheelchair.

The other method, the twisty turning, pulling thing, hurt too much and didn't work for me at all. I had used that for 10 years before I found the Activator.

With the activator method I went from 3-4 times a month to 3-4 times a year.

You just have to understand the science of all of it.

[enigmatic]

10. Completly disagree

I've seen 2 when I lived in Phoenix for corrections on my back after accidents, and they worked wonders..

[AngryAmish]

12. The founding principles of chiropractic are not true

Chiropractic manipulations feel wonderful. It also feels nice when a non-chiropractor cracks my back. I just love the feeling.

It does not cure any disease or condition.

Now, most chiropractors do a very good job of what is essentially physical therapy. Electrostimulation, hot and cold packs, exercise etc. These do a great job of rehabilitating injured muscles.

However, adjusting the spine does not necessarily remove the physical cause of back pain. It can be very nice palliative care (I prefer a good professional massage). But manipulation alone cures nothing.

[Floogeldy]

13. Cure?

Cure what?

Just asking.

:)

[AngryAmish]

14. There are certain chiropractors that make extraordinary claims about it

"Strait" chiropractors think that one can cure most any condition (including diabetes) by spinal manipulation. That is a dangerous thought.

[Az]

23. This is where the problem with Chiro's come into play

There are those that just apply their trade to treatment of back pain and associative problems. But the controvercial claimants insist that their methods can cure all manner of disorder. From the common cold to cancer.

If you go to a Chiro for a backache you will likely get an expensive massage that will feel great. But if you go to be cured of a disorder you will be conned.

Try this sometime. Go to two or more Chiros and have them do a diag on you. See if any two give them same diagnosis.

[chknltl]

25. Um... My fellow DUer

...Here is a link, one I hope that you will investigate at your leisure on the topic. It is a good start into the realm of Chiropractic:
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/consumer/

Does a good professional massage actually readjust individual spinal vertebrae? (Of course not, this is a chiropractic technique). Do physical therapists routinely show their patients x-rays of the actual bone degenerations which progressively occur to vertebrae once the vertebrae becomes subluxated? (Chiropractors are aware of this, good ones show you examples of it). Does it make any sense to you that a nerve which is being impacted on by a subluxated vertebrae is apt to malfunction? (They do). Is it possible that this malfunctioning nerve can cause and or prevent pain? (It can and often does both).

You need not be a doctor here to follow that line of thought. Pain is a symptom, not a cause. Chiropractic seeks to address the cause. I agree that physical therapy is important too. It addresses specific problems but imagine how much better that physical therapy will heal those specific problems if the nerves to them are unimpeaded...(or contrary how much less effective is that PT when the nerves to that area are damaged or impeded). Subluxated vertebrae impede nerve function, over time this can lead to permanent nerve damage, and vertebrae degeneration and disc malformations.

If chiropractic can remove these subluxations and in so doing un-impede the nerves which are impacted and in the end alleviate the pains brought about by the impacted nerves, then yes manipulation alone can cure things. (Technically the body cures itself everything else including Chiropractic aids in the process).

It pains me to out and out disagree with any of my fellow DUers. I look to all of you as allies and sources of information. This is one topic where there is a lot of misinformation. In my heart I believe that I am sorting out some of this misinformation to folks I hold in the highest of regards. I strongly urge any who doubt my assertions to the importance of Chiropractic to do a bit of honest fair and balanced research online. I had many friends who believed that I was wrong about chiropractic care, until I dragged them down to a chiropractor I felt had it together. Those friends are all converts now.

[Beausoir]

15. Snake Oil Salesmen

It's an absolute CRAP field. Money...lots of it...right down the drain.

Most chiros I know couldn't possibly pass the MCAT to get into Med School.

Now..they rely on mass marketing to try and lure customers in.
Think time-share salesmen in Mexican beach towns.

Save your money and go see a trained physician for your medical problems. Treat yourself better than some fly by night bullshit artist who will tell you that your main problem is that one leg is shorter than the other.

[Awsi Dooger]

16. I've got sciatica but I'm hesitant to try a chiropractor

The pain is in my left foot, numbness and stinging. But it developed from sciatica that went down my left side.

My dad had a similar problem in the '60s and tried a chiropractor. The guy hooked him up to a machine with flashing lights. When the chiropractor left the room, my dad peeked behind the machine and the tube was literally tied in a knot.

[Shine]

19. I respectfully disagree with your assessment of chiropractors.

I am sorry you had a bad experience with the one you went to, but that doesn't mean they are ALL "quacks".

My chiropractor has helped me many times over the years in dealing with the occasional tweaked neck or stiff back. I am a firm believer in the healing power of chiropractic and the wholistic attitude they take toward the human body.

I agree with one of the previous posters about taking legal action if you truly felt injured by the one you saw.

Just like medical doctors, there are good ones and there are not so good ones.

Wishing you well.... :hug:

Shine

[Historic NY]

20. I've been using one for about 20 yrs now..........

my original chiropractor was from the old school and was one of the first in the area where I live. I never believed in them until I got hurt and couldn't move. My present one is a young guy, a lot gentler in some aspects but he was extensively interviewed before my turned over his practice to him. Its has been the only way I get any relief, I can't stand taking pain meds.

He actually has done more for me that physical therapy since I bust up my ankle & leg in Jan. I would have times when I couldn't walk from pain and swelling and he would work the tendons. Everything from L1-S1 is shot with me and he agrees I will need some surgical work done. They discovered an abdominal aortic aneurysm, in addition and I go Tues to my surgeon to see how and when that can be done first.

[Az]

22. Dear Hypnotoad

You are going to run into the classic problem of those who experience anecdotal evidence being convinced vs objective evidentiary study rejecting a belief.

Simply put Chiropractics do not do what they claim as far as healing other ills are concerned. If you have a backache or other such malady they provide a very pleasant massage.

People are going to believe their perceptions of their experience over any amount of evidence you provide for them. Its simply how the mind works. The only way for them to come to an understanding of the failure of the process is to see it for themself. Even then allowances will be made for anamolies. The emotional relevance of an experience, even if misunderstood, will overwhelm any amount of reasoning. Add to the mix the countless rationalizations offered by those that wish to promote the practice and any attempt to warn people of being taken in will result in the person trying to warn them being tarred and feathered.

[chknltl]

26. Is visual x-ray evidence anecdotal?

My fellow DUer, I have witnessed my own before, during and after x-rays. What I saw profoundly influenced my decisions to change from a critic to an advocate. Perhaps I was "hoodwinked" but the injuries to my neck, (my vertebrae) were highly consistent with those x-rays. The repair work done by my first Chiropractor is highly evident in those x-rays. It is possible that this repair work did little to ease my pains, it is possible that the pains were never even there. For some reason the manipulations performed by the guy I called a "back quack",(to his face daring him to prove otherwise), alleviated my suffering. Those x-rays are evidence of something other than anecdotal evidence to me. (If it works why fix it?).

[Az]

27. Because that is not all that Chiro is sold for

Back manipulation feels great. It is a very satisfying deep massage. But it does not cure cancer, or colds, or any of the other maladies some Chiro's claim it does.

Sometimes the treatment of a Chiro is sufficient to alleviate the pain enough to let the body to it's own thing. But if you have a serious back problem I would recommend seeing an Osteopath instead.

Here is some reading that may give some insite into the claims of the Chiros.

http://www.chirobase.org/01General/chirosub.html

[u4ic]

24. I've been going to them for 25 years

I've ran into some awful ones, but there are some really good ones out there, too. Just like any other health professional, it's best to shop around. Heck, I've had just as many crappy GP's in my lifetime.

I've been seeing my current one for about 5 years. He has a bachelor of science, too - he doesn't sell vitamins, and doesn't propose to cure any disease. He is also remarkably well informed about general health matters, both conventional and alternative, and realistic about his place in the scheme of one's health.

[southlandshari]

28. Locking

Look! A skull!



Seriously. There are better places to discuss serious medical issues than here. Please find them. You can start with your doctor's - or chiropractor's - office.

:D

[southlandshari]

30. Kick. n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[southlandshari]

31. Locking (again!)

This thread has been reposted with permission here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x3462

Wanted to give it a kick for all those who were enjoying the conversation.

Best,
southlandshari
DU Moderator