Here's a quandry for you......

[Old and In the Way]

I have a 17YO daughter that will be graduating next year from HS. She's going through the normal queries for selecting a college.

Me and the Mrs's, had a fight tonight. She wants my daughter to do the traditional thing....go to college, Liberal Arts, with no idea to the future. Maybe a marketing degree in fashion.

OK, here's the nut. I have a business that does industrial manufacturing/consulting around the world. Our HQ is in Zhongshan,PRC the fashion HQ for the world. I'm not into fashion, but I know lots of people in the industry. Should my daughter take a year off, learn Chinese and absorb the culture...1 hr out of Hong Kong....meet people from all around the world (we have a internaltional bar in Zhongshan that is the place to go (a refuge from Karyoke)....it's a veritible UN of business people....and just plain have a great time. Or be a lemming and get absorbed into the educational system. I did the tradional route and I'm thinking "big waste of time".....

I had a big fight with the SO tonight.....help.

[wildhorses]

1. whose life is it anyway?

what does your daughter want?

[Old and In the Way]

5. Yes, trhat's the easy answer

Do you have a 17 YO? Her's the prob. The SO wants her to do the traditional college route. I'm saying that I think she should take a year off in a culture that's going to be the place to be in the 21st century. If you've never been there, you don't know.

Anyway, an 18 YO female in China can influence design, learn the language of commerce for the 21st century, and have the time of her life (safe passage guaranteed by me) for a year in Mainland, China.

Plus, the bar plays the Greatful Dead.....tell me where you'd rather hang when you're 19?

[wildhorses]

7. actually it is the HARD answer

your children are not your children- Kahil Gibran
I know you don't like it and I am hoping you all can reach a satisfactory compromise .

[Old and In the Way]

9. Ahhhh, they are your children.

Do you have any? How old? If they fail....would you feel responsible?

[wildhorses]

11. if by not living up to my expectations

means failing then yes
please don't misunderstand me ...I truly HOPE you reach a solution that is agreeable to all parties involved

[Old and In the Way]

14. I don't doubt every parent wonders about the road not taken for their kids

But I have a unique opportunity to impart......as the Chinese would say, "what to do?"

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

2. (I'm heading to bed, so apologies for the brief reply)

I took a year out before Uni, worked full-time for 6 months, then went to Hong Kong, Australia & New Zealand. It was the easily best thing I've ever done. My confidence grew in leaps & bounds - travelling on your own, the onus is on you to be pro-active when it comes to hooking up with people.

I also changed my future plans -- I had a place at Nottingham Uni to do computer science, but I'd always had a passion for English & I'd met so many twentysomethings in my travels who had done a degree for career reasons, only to decide that they didn't want a lifetime in that field. Several long distance phone calls & I'd switched degrees to 'English & American Studies'.

It also set me up really well for when I got to Uni. I made friends that much easier & I could live independently. Although what you're proposing for your daughter is slightly different I say go for it. She really won't regret it & even if it does go wrong & she comes home, a year out of education can't harm anybody.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Daugter does what daughter wants

Though i will say that your wife should give you the freedom to let your daughter know about your option.

But neither of you can tell her what to do.

[wildhorses]

6. OMG you and I agree???

and we did on the margarine too...

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. Does this surprise you?

Do we often disagree? I don't remember.

[wildhorses]

21. I am suprised...

but I forgot why

[Old and In the Way]

8. It's truely a quandry......

Do I influence her decision or do I stay neutral? Thing is, I can offer her the opportunity to meet people from all around the world, learn Chinese, and hang with 5 under 25 women who work for me that speak English.

I'm into industrial manufacturing and know squat about fashion....but I have lots of contacts in that industry.....I think what she could learn in Mainland China = 2 years in a college environment.

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Personally, I think your way is, hands down, the better way for her.

But I'm not her, and you're not her.

Though I absolutely think you have the right to let her know of your option, you can't - at least, not morally - force her into anything (and neither can your wife). Up above you asked the question "If they fail, do you not feel responsible?" I have to say that if she decides to follow your wife, or do something entirely different, none of those choices are "failures" (unless she chooses to take a year to become a meth addict or something). She might choose something that you would wish she didn't choose, but it doesn't mean she's a failure, or that she failed.

I would have killed for a chance like you offer when I was out of high school, and I hope she will go with your option! I am all in favor of no one going to college until they're 19 or 20 - go and live for a couple years, enjoy your youth, go do stupid things and live it up and see the world when young enough to do it.

[steely]

4. I went to school 2 years after HS - I believe the break helped.

I went to school knowing what I wanted (at least I thought I did).

And of course I'd give daughter the option, but I have a feeling it could be a hard sell if your wife has any influence.

[salin]

10. It completely depends upon your daughter.

if she is ready and wants to go college or whether she is ambivelant. If she doesn't care about going to college (eg want to do well, not just want the social life), than a year or more immersion makes a whole lot of sense. But if she wants to go on and study further now - even if she isn't clear on what she wants to study, than she should pursue college at a liberal arts college. In todays shifting economy a liberal arts education, again, makes sense. THere is more flexibility to go into more areas. It also appears that for more security advanced degrees are going to be more and more important. Thus a liberal arts degree, if a student is motivated and really exploring different areas, makes sense - as a good school will give opportunities to explore different areas and give the flexibility to get into good grad programs - even if the area or study from undedrgrad to grad school is different. However, students who are not ready for college can greatly benefit from time off into experiences that can broaden horizons (ie potential careers and areas of studies) - and can help give the thirst for knowledge that when experienced make the whole college trip much more useful (eg the student works harder to learn from each class - and take advantage of opportunities for work experiences that expand their marketability after college.)

[Old and In the Way]

12. Thanks for the thoughtful response Salin!

She's really no different then I was at that age. I went where I was pushed. I got a great education, no question......but would I do things different in 1971? Probably not. But this is 2005. She doesn't know how rad, how amazing things are there. I can offer her an opportunity to learn...unstructured. Is that so bad?

[salin]

20. I have lived this for most of my adult life

first I grew up in a college town - and the U was such a huge influence that many folks went just because. And they floundered (because they were not ready to go - and could have used a different experience before hand.)

I have worked with pre-college age youth for years. Those kids who are ready to go - either with a concrete idea of what they want to do (that is knew it for years and didn't waiver) or those who were just into learning (loved exploring each area and over the liberal arts experience - found their passion - but only by delving into different areas). A diversion for these kids can be detrimental - only because the adult world - with adult problems and adult realities intrude and then pursuing college can become a diminishing reality. For example, because I am an earner I start buying things with payments over time (eg cars) and now have financial obligations which make going to college full-time more onerous. Or worse, I feel like adult and dive into adult relationships with real consequences... which make later going to college full-time, much less likely.

On the other hand, I have known many capable youth go on to college without any other reason than "it is what I am supposed to do next" and either flounder (and get into academic problems or worse) - or for a kid who could do extremely well and open doors based on college work/connections/etc - just barely get through (or get through with nothing exceptional on the record) and waste huge potential for what might come after college due to ambivalence in approaching their initial years of college studies.

IMO, it depends upon the individual - no set and hard rule as whether time off will be a detriment (which it can be, in a big way), or a help (which it can be, also, in a big way.)

[Old and In the Way]

24. Of course, you are right - "it depends on the individual"

But......what does a 17 YO who's lived her whole like in a town of 3,000 know?

I benefited from a liberal arts education.....I learned a little bit about everything, not a lot about anything. But times have changed. Today ther are 2 options:

(1) College
(2) Military

I'm thinking there has to be a 3rd way.....

[salin]

30. Three options and variations

1) college - with a vocational bend (several of my nephews want to go to Purdue to become Engineers.. so the vocational bend is not just a 2 year school - but also entering a major U with a narrow view of what one will major in from the beginning)
2) liberal arts college or U (imo - except for the few that "know" what they want to become and haven't waivered for that for years, is the much better training/ ala versatility in todays economy)
3) Military
4) work force

For 1 vs 4 it depends on the individual motivation for learning. Skating through high school (for a bright kid that means getting a whole lot of Bs when one could get As) suggests that the desire (for learning) isn't yet there. THus the libear arts ed - that I tend to advocate fore - is not neccessarily a good thing. If skating continues at college, there is no heavy work - heavy introspection during studies to work to decide what one really should study (instead of wehat is the common path of study). For this student, time experiencing other things could be fantastic before college, as taht student will have a greater reason for studying when they get to college.

But there are big risks for going this route - that can lead to not later pursuing advanced education later. Thus the serious student, ready to dig in to academe - should do so - lest they get derailed before getting to "dig in" to college.

[crispini]

13. What does she WANT to do?

For a person that age, college by herself may be entirely enough! It takes a pretty bold person to go halfway around the world to a place where she doesn't speak the language. I went into the Peace Corps *after* college -- and I was ready for it -- but I certainly wouldn't have been up for such a thing right out of college.

[Old and In the Way]

15. Did you know what you wanted to do at 17?

That's a non-starter. I'm 52 and I'm still not sure what I want to do. :-)

Anyway...it's the traditional vs. exotic method of gaining knowledge....what to do?

[crispini]

16. No, not what she wants to do for the rest of her life...

what she wants to do for the next four years. :) China may be waaaay out of her comfort zone. She can always go to China *after* college. But if she likes the idea of China, then why not? Have you discussed the idea of China with her, and what does she think? (I lived in Shanghai for a year after I went in the Peace Corps.)

[Old and In the Way]

22. Cool, Crispini!

In Shanghai, eh? I was there once...IOt's unbelievable today...you woulsd not recognize it. But my knowledge base is in So. China. Here's the deal. My company (in which I'm a partner) employs 5 Chinese women and 1 guy...all under 25). Why so young? Because, they know English and they know the world culture. Seriously wierd. Their parents were living in the Cultural Revolution and the 9th Plentiful Harvest Plan, while I was enjoying a whole different world.

Anyway, she can do what she wants....but how many 18 YO's get the chance to live and learn in an environment that I know is toitaly safe? Hell, I know Boston (4MM) and I know Zhonshang (5MM).......I'd rather have her walking in Zhongshan at 3:00AM than in Boston.

[salin]

23. Not what she "wants" to do - but readiness for futher studies.

If she is ready (not just wanting the "college life") then she should go to college. If she is unsure or unmotivated, then an alternative would be potentially hugely beneficial. If she goes to a college with a 4-1-4 schedule (two semesters, and a one month term for internships or on campus intense studies) - then the experiences you refer to can be worked into the college program. At my U - January term was a one month term for internships off campus.

There are some real serious potential pitfalls for "a year or two off" - which can lead to preventing ever going to college in the first place - or going back on a "part time" basis - which also can prevent finihsing. I expand on that on another post on this thread. Thus my statement - it depends on the individual. If you have, for example, four kids - for two going to college immediately may be the best bet - while for others working first may make the college experience be more serious and more focused ont he academic aspects of college.

[Old and In the Way]

36. My daughter is NHS.

I'm supportive of wherever she goes. I've been thru the 4 year college thing in the early 70s. I certainly understand the value of a liberal arts education. I know a little about everything....not a lot about anything. <So what's a Conservative Arts Degree?>

But what's more liberal arts than going 1/2 around the world and living in an entirely different culture/country? Would I have been better taking a year off better HS and College? You betcha....I had a .7 QPI my Freshman year....and a 3.2 QPI when I graduated.

What'd learn in my Freshman year? LSD and the Greateful Dead. OK, so that was the most important thing I learned....is you never stop learning. And, guess what? No one has ever asked to see my diploma. Hmmmmm.

[salin]

42. as an individual

you sound like you were not ready and could have benefitted from time off prior to going to college. I have long advocated that kids who are not ready, shouldn't yet go.

I skipped my senior year of h.s. to go to college at barely seventeen. I was ready in terms of desire - but struggled academically for two years as I was able to skate to good grades at h.s. and it wasn't preparing me for college level work at a comptetive college. But - while I struggled, intellectually I was digging in. So while my grades climbed (which later, along with some grad work at the state U - paved the way for admittance into the top international grad program in my field). My very social nature at 17 (when I went to college) would have put me at risk had I gone into an adult role at that age instead of going to college a year early. However, my salutiturian sister - went to a top college before she was ready - and due to her lack of sense of where she was going in college - it lead to her dropping out - from a top east coast ivy.

It really depends more upon your daughter (per which path makes sense) than it does your sense that the international experience would be bette4r, nor than your SOs belief that college would be better.

[Old and In the Way]

49. Salin....I'm 53...whatever I did in 70.....is moot....non-operative.

I got a great Liberal Arts Degree. Which ultimately meant nothing 9directlY) with my job....except what I learned in college made me a better person. But, that was 35 years ago........what to do today? Let her go to a conventional college, get a conventional eductation, and a conventional experience....or go to China? Safe passage and controlled life experience?

[salin]

51. yet your college experience

seems to be primary in your read of your daughter's situation - therefore it is primary to how you see this.

I still contend - it depends on whether or not she is ready to dig into college, or whether she is more likely to just go because everyone else is going (that is no motivation, at least initially.)

[Old and In the Way]

57. That's the quandry, Salin

I know what want her to do, but the tug to conventionalism is so great....

[salin]

60. neither your tug, nor conventionalism should drive the decisions

her motivation (level), her interests etc. should drive this conversation.

If she starts college and struggles (as many of us did) - then is the time perhaps she should take the time off to work overseas.

[petronius]

18. Speaking as one of the lemming herders...

I can't recall ever seeing a student have a worsened college experience because they took time off and explored the world beforehand. In fact, a majority of my best students have been those who return - after the military, after a wander-year, or after a full career. So if she wants it, by all means let her go - what you describe sounds like a great opportunity and she'll get more out of college for having taken advantage of it (IMO)...

(Of course, my sample is skewed - I never see the kids who 'take some time off' and then never go back to school or amount to anything...:))

[salin]

25. My sample includes a number who never went on to college

after the "short time off for experience." Hence my belief that it depends on the individual and their motivation.

[Old and In the Way]

28. Here's an interesting situation.

A guy that works for me sends his 'neer-do-well' 25 YO, college flunkie/GF dumped him/working at the local Pizza Place...to China. We let him work at our bar. He learns Chinese...now he reps the 4th largest shoe manufacturer in internetional sales from China. Hmmmm.

[salin]

32. exactly the point that I am trying to make

many kids who go to college, are not yet ready (in terms of motivation - and intellectual curiostiy that opens them to learn). For those kids work first makes a heck of a lot of sense.

BUT. there are risks that in introducing adulthood earlier that some will not go back to college - for those that are ready - developmentally (they are intellectually and motivationally ready for college) - the experience can lead to adult-like constraints (financial obligations - or new family oblications) that derail college in the future.

There is not a menu that says "this opportunity is the best way for all individuals."

[petronius]

34. I agree with you...

Many people become quite productive and successful w/o college, and many people amount to very little even with a degree. Individual desire and effort is everything. And I find that people tend to develop that motivation and desire after a stint in the 'real world' - they only come back to school if they really want it and know it's important...

I do think that anyone who desires a college degree will benefit even more with some breadth to their life experience. I've never had an experience where a returning student was less motivated or less well prepared as a result of the hiatus. My parenthetical comment was a bit tongue in cheek - since I wouldn't see those who choose not to continue after the time off...

[Old and In the Way]

39. Thanks for posting....my idea exactly.

What is the idea of success today? I'm clueless....but going to college because everyone is doing it......well, I think my daughter can do better. And I'm in a situation where I can make it happen.

[Old and In the Way]

26. Thank You! That's my feeling, exactly.

I went to Holy Cross College in Worcester, MA...a truely great school if you want to be a doctor or work for the CIA....but I went there for my parents. I have an opportunity to let my daughter really be free and learn....like no other environment in the USA.....why not?

[BiggJawn]

27. Jeebus, I wish I had a dad like you!

I might have actually BEEN something besides a good little tax-paying regret-filled HOOSIER cog...

Ask your ESSO just what is her fucking hurry? Your daughter has got the rest of her life to go to college and become a Consumer.

FWIW, the sons of "Gentlemen" were expected to "Travel" for a year or so before they entered College. It was said to instill a well-rounded view on life and the world in general.

Today, we shove 'em straight from High School into their fast-track XMBA program so they can get a jump on that first Million, then wonder why they become selfish ReTHUGlicans who don't know anything but spoiling themselves and spitting on other people.

[Old and In the Way]

29. My thinking exactly BigJawn....and I have 1 16 YO football player

who'll be in the same situation, next year. I'm really lucky that I can offer this unique opportunity.....should they take advantage of it?

It sucks to be a father when your daughter's 17.....

[BiggJawn]

31. LOL! Been there, got the scars and the T-shirt!

"It sucks to be a father when your daughter's 17...."

She's 22 now, got the fuck OUT of Indiana and is living large in Chicago.
Told me once that if she had stayed in Indiana she'd probably have a single-wide, 2 kids and an ex-husband.

[Old and In the Way]

33. LL....that's my definition of hell.

Really, I have great kids...we live in a town of 3000 on the edge of the North Woods. Anyway, it's nowhere'sville. They'll go to college....or they'll go to China. Where they won't go is to thje Middle East.

[Wapsie B]

35. An important side of it is what your daughter wants.

But looking back on it I wish to hell I would've had someone like yourself offer me that kind of opportunity at that age. For so many people the first year or so of college is a complete waste. It's one beer party and sex binge after another. Socialization is important at that age. There's no doubt about that. But wait with school until you can be serious about it. There's no harm in that. If I had waited a few years and learned to appreciate school more maybe I would've graduated the first time around and not act like a ship without a rudder half the time.

[Old and In the Way]

37. Yeah, that';s the core problem.

Do I allow her to go with the "mainstream" idea....or do something rad? Will it be a net good or bad?

[salin]

38. My sense per the argument with your wife

is that bpth are talking in theory of what is right - and neither is thinking about the individual situation of your daughter. Your responses to my comments have been always in "theory" and never about the college readiness of your daughter in particular - and I am guessing that the same is happening with your wife.

When you stop talking about what is "the best path" in absolutes (ala best for ALL individuals) - you will get further in this conversation.

What you suggest can be great for some kids and a disaster for others.

What you suggest can also be worked into a college program (through internships, years abroad opportunities, etc.) IF SHE IS COLLEGE READY. If she isn't college ready - the risk that it may divert her from ever going to college may be balanced by the chance that the experience and new linguistic skills may open her up to desiring a college education to enable her to accomplish more in her carerr.

But from the conversation on the thread, it really seems that you are sitll invested in that this is good for all kids and thus for my daughter - and thus a "in theory" comment - as the individual who is your daughter - and her motivations, developmental readiness, etc. is irrelevant to the theory that this would be good. Am guessing that the "going to college" side is being pushed with the same passion and "in theoriness". Thus, until you both stop talking in theory and start talking about the individual who is your daughter, I would imagine that you will remain at "Loggerheads."

[Old and In the Way]

43. Great insight Salin.

Thi is really the SO and I talking here. Seriously, where does a person coming from an environment of 3000 people (town size) go?

Boston....yes.
But, I can offer my daughter a 1 year "sabbatical". Would she learn more 1 year in China or 1 year in ___any___college environment?

[salin]

45. I hope you don't mind my devil's advocate role on this thread

Offer her the idea - but don't oversell it.

Offer her the option of working such an experience into a semseter5 or year long internship through her U - which starts to identify possible Us (those that give credit for such experiencers) - so that she might be able to get some credoits for the experience.)

See what she reacts to positively. Also watch how she does academically in her senior year. If she slacks - push the year off experience. If she digs in - push college - but considering a program where an international internshiop could count for some credit.

Please consider all that could go wrong in 1 year in a foreign country - at her age - as you consider it (from my sense in this thread) as an absolute "good" for her.

[Old and In the Way]

63. I think that's a great middle ground......

I'm happy for her to go Freshman year....than think about it. Big cost, but she's worth it....

[salin]

66. She is very lucky

to have parents who are so deeply committed to her growth and well being. Best to you all! :hug:

[benny05]

40. This is a good quandry

for you and the missus...

But more so for the daughter.

I started college at 17 believing I wanted to do one thing, and it turned out I didn't, and transfered to a college closer to home. I changed my major twice, and ended up in education because my parents could not support me with just a liberal arts degree. I had to get a job when I got out, and where I lived, you had to have a vocational-oriented degree of sorts; liberal arts folks went directly to grad school or other professional schools, if they had the bucks and grades to do so.

I think the daughter may be in the middle of your preferences, but I believe if I were in your shoes and had the resources, I'd let the daughter choose the path. A liberal arts school with overseas programs (going to Spain, for example) would give her world exposure with some security.

Perhaps you could offer to allow her to work summers for you...if she wanted, and with the understanding that her work is for special projects, depending on her interest, schooling, talents, as she goes along in school.

Just an idea or two...good luck. You and the wife will get over your fight.

[Old and In the Way]

44. I have the classical Liberal Arts Degree

I know little about any one thing, but I know a lot about everything!

Really...I couldn't be happier wit this degree. I worked in manufacturing for 30 years.....and I can take any product/design and build it anywhere. How cool is that?

But the liitle babe....she'll do what the SO tells her. I think that's a big mistake.


As the insrutable Chinese would say..."what to do"?

[salin]

47. as you discount your degree

mine (with a decent, but not great gpa) prepared me - along with some successful grad work elsewhere - at twenty-nine to gain admittance to the top grad program in my desired field.. in the world. I went from a good liberal arts UG degree to a PhD program (several years later - after a work record enabled due to said liberal arts education) at Stanford. Sometimes the same degree that you seem to be denigrating as an absolute (as if your case is the absolute rule) can open doors later that might never otherwise be open (e.g. had a diversion for me, led me to the local state U rather than the competitve liberal arts U).

I can promise that had I gone to the local state U, even with a single year of extern work (even in China) it wouldn't have gotten me into Stanford later. All things are not, necessarily equal, nor are they necessarily uneqaul.

So the big question - is she ready to dig into college, or more likely to do the social thing and dive academically in college? THAT really should be the big question in this conversation.

[Old and In the Way]

53. Disount? Absolutely not.

I am very proud of my degree. BA/PoliSci Minor/Poli/Phil

I think the best goddam education was had by people lucky enough to be taught by Jesuits in 70's. I got a great education and I learned one thing: you never stop learning.

I'm into manufacturing...but I just want the SD to do whatever she wants.....for her 18th year.

[salin]

59. Your primary question should be

is she ready to get ALL that she can out of her UG experience. If yes, she should go to college - but you should push for looking for a college that incorporates overseas internships or study opportunities.

If she is still a little flighty, or even just undecided about college - then push the year option in China.

If she is ready to be a serious college student (really dig into studies), then you really risk entering adult issues (financial - or relationshiopwis) that make going to college afterwards less likely.

I feel like a "bad guy" on this thread. I am sorry for that. However I have watched both scenarios play out (kids not college ready, squandering it and getting little out of it; or kids diverted by "life" in their intended year or two off before going to college.) I remain committed to the idea - that it depends upon thindividual teenager. I haven't read, yet, where her interests lie, or her level of academic motivations lie. Those really seem like some of the most important points of discussion.

Good luck. I believe that in the end the decision - between you, your SO and your daughter, will come down to her motivation - and will consider the issues raised in this thread, among others.

Good luck - and best wishes,
salin

[Old and In the Way]

62. Great response Salin! Thanks!

I'm in a "no-win'situation. Until she goes there.....what's the point?

I gotta finesse this....and I look at this as a year of education whether she gets credit or not.

[benny05]

48. She may do what the SO says at first

But once your daughter is in college, and truly allowed to explore her options without anyone telling her what to do, it may be different.

Good luck!

[Old and In the Way]

50. I suspect you are correct.

And I think it's a mistake....but will support.

[wovenpaint]

41. I've been in the textile/fashion industry

started college for textiles in the '70's, quit- and wasn't able to get back to obtain degree until the '90's. Finished my degree, was all proud of myself, landed a job as a jacquard designer, lost it, 2 mills closed- and have since watched the textile industry leave America for PRC, Hong Kong, and India-as well as Mexico, Taiwan, etc. In fact, I just lost a job as colorist due to "downsizing".....now going to work as studio artist.

So....my advice, along with "let it be her decision" would be that she would probably learn ALOT more out in the "real world" at this point. The textile/fashion industry seems to have too much going on to be able to learn it in the classroom. Hey, and if she gets a chance to travel and learn another language...but, again, suggest the options, and let her decide where SHE would like her path to go.
GOOD LUCK! (I have a 19 year old daughter, myself!)

[Old and In the Way]

46. Maine, my State, has always been on the cutting edge of outsourcing.

We lived through it in the 40-50's.....all our textile jobs went to No.Carolina. So it goes. I don't make the rules. In my manufacturing life, I've been laid off 3 times. Fuck that. Now I own my own company....and we are the best, hot-shit guerilla manufacturer's in the world. We can take design to finished product in 90 days.......cool, eh?

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

52. I took a year off before school and got "real world" experience

ultimately its your daughters decision, but it was the smartest move of my life. I applied to NYU, got in, then asked for a 1 year deferment. I moved to Israel, learned hebrew, taught english, volunteered in the army, lived and worked on a kibbutz and had a fucking amazing time.

I say, year off!

[Old and In the Way]

54. Thank you!

Not that I want her to join the Chinese Army or anything...


:-)

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

55. hahaha, you're welcome

I just did a volunteer program. It was really cool.

But I say you give her the option, and as someone who did it, I say :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Old and In the Way]

56. s a cosumer of mass amoAunts of enlightenment.......

I'm with ya.

How cool is it to have a bar in Zhongshang....exporting RMBs and importing great music? The Dead, Connick, Armstrong, Marsalis, and many,many more. They gravitate to our place!

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

58. That sounds pretty freaking cool

if I was your daughter I would jump at this chance :yourock:

[Old and In the Way]

61. What do I know?

I'm just stupid, poor old dad.....

[A HERETIC I AM]

64. Encourage her to go.

Like you said in a post above, China is going to be where it's at this century.

Damn...if only i was 25 years younger...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. I really love your SO, but I gotta go with you on this one

She can be trained now to be the most elite hamburger flipper on the planet..or she can see the world she will be in which she will be competing, maybe even see a need for an area where she can focus her talents and having travelled, have a much bigger playground on which to focus her talents.

[tim2204]

67. A question to you

Let me as k you a question that i didn't see here maybe that will help in your deciding whether or not your daughter is college bound or not.
Q; When you were seventeen what was your view as to what you were going to do where college was concerned it is something that you thought long and hard about or was it the last thing on your mind?
The reason i ask is that for the most part children at that age really have not matured enough to actually have any idea what they really want.
I am sure that your daughter may be the exception to the rule but she as we all have will have to find out for herself what,who, and where she will be and eventually take her life.
it is our life's mission to guide these young people to see what there potential can be not to demand that they chose one or the other..
There can be no way i could ever imagine what your situation may be there other than what you have stated here but from what i have read i saw no where where you had even asked her what she wanted..
I know that my answer here isn't the best when it comes to understanding children especially a womans point of view (they can be perplexing enough without going there LMAO)
any way think about how she feels and ask you may be suprised as to her response. :pals:

[fudge stripe cookays]

68. I wish now...

that I had taken some time to see the world before getting absorbed into the whole college thing.

From college I had to work (menial jobs) just to make ends meet; always planning to travel when I'd earned enough.

I finally got a decent job in '98, and was finally paying off major bills. Then I met reprehensor, so all the money went to the long distance relationship.

By 2001, we were finally able to start enjoying our wonderful married life together and traveling. And you know what happened that year.

By then, I was afraid to go to half the places I wanted to.

Now, I have health worries out the ass, it's harder to walk, hard to be in heat in countries with no air conditioning, and I just got laid off; so there went the money.

I wish I'd done something crazy back then and joined the Peace Corps or something. But I was too selfish and self-absorbed. My mom was a Republican, so I didn't even know any of these "liberal" options existed until years later. I'm still regretting it.

fsc