Calling all DU dog experts and dog "owners"

[Cerridwen]

My male dog appears to have a problem with female rottweilers.

Reilly showed up in the front yard a little over a year ago. He's about 2 or 2 1/2 years old. He appears to be a "border terrier" mix and is neutered. He weighs about 12 - 14 lbs.

Recently, he's been exposed to many dogs - various breeds, male and female, fixed and non-fixed, many ages. So far, he appears to become "dangerously aggressive" with only 2 dogs - both female rotties; dangerous for him. He's snack sized food for them. His behavior is barking, growling, lunging - all while wagging his tail.

He will growl at other dogs if they "invade" his space, approach his food or wake him up - he can be grumpy but mostly he's okay with the exception of these 2 dogs whom he seems to loathe.

Any ideas?

Here are a couple of pics of this "monster" terrier.

[Shell Beau]

1. Cutie! My little dog also has "Big Dog Syndrome"

They think they are bigger than they are. If he is wagging his tail, maybe he is just playing. But I honestly don't know what to tell you except to keep him away. :shrug: Good luck!

[Cerridwen]

2. Thanks. If he did this with all big dogs, it would make more sense

but - the little bugger only reacts this way - so far - to these 2 rotties.

I'm worried I'm "mom" to a sexist, breedist terrier. :)

[miss_kitty]

3. Stella is very much like your dog

for 11 months we have been working on "No Bark" and working on pretty much a 'praise only' kind of program. She is still a big barker, but I can get her to shut up quit with 'No Bark' 'good No Bark'. When she OTT, she DOES have to go to her spot on the sofa, lay down, head down. And she gets the ice treatment for awhile. No hitting, no bad dog shaming.

Our little Terrierists are so headstrong, you have to trick them into thinking it's their idea not to attack that Rottie.

ON EDIT-tail wagging means "I wanna PLAY!"

[Cerridwen]

5. LOL - so you, too use the term Terrierists LOL

Glad to hear it - though 11 months?! Stubborn, much? Just like Reilly.

I don't do hitting or shaming either. Reilly is extremely sensitive - he'll duck and cover at a raised hand. Wish I knew what his life was like before he showed up.

[Mutley]

7. That hardly matters.

The important thing is he's with good people now. :)

[miss_kitty]

14. Yeah I've only had her that long

She was 8-9 months old when I got her and I found out she had belonged to a homeless kid. DU member freeperlessinseattle found her up by her place and couldn't have her even overnight in her place. I ended up with her (Yay!) She's the black version of Fang, a dog who lived around the corner, and a dog I always wanted. Also I painted a large picture of a dog standing in a stream and it's her-I painted it in '98.

Stella is extremely sensitive and I couldn't yell at the assholes on the telly without her looking at me like she was going to be wailed on. I feel bad when I have to tell her to "Get up on your sofa-HEAD DOWN!" I know it hurts her little dog feelings. :(

[Cerridwen]

18. I remember the saga posted here in the lounge :D

Amazing isn't it; how sensitive they can be, especially given how they'll bounce off hard objects, dig under fences, climb over fences (Reilly made it over a 6' block wall, I still don't know how), fall and jump as though they've not a care in the world and one harsh world and they look like you've kicked them.

[China_cat]

16. Easiest way to teach 'no bark'

is to teach her to bark on command. Then, if she doesn't get the command, she doesn't bark.

[miss_kitty]

17. wow

never thought of that! :think:

You know though-I think she'd still engage in recreational barking. It makes her feel righteous and powerful. She has an officious little stompy trot she uses going from the window to door. And a big ol' sigh that goes with the whole package. :D

[philosophie_en_rose]

24. Sometimes this can backfire.

One of my dogs learned to bark, because the other two are followers that learn best after she's learned.

She barks all the time, now that she associates barking with treats.

[China_cat]

25. That's why you also have a COMMAND

for barking. Treats aren't given just for barking, they are given for barking ON COMMAND. Other barks aren't treated, they aren't even acknowledged. That's why 'no bark' doesn't work in most cases. Because the dog is still getting a payoff for barking...your attention. You're talking to him or putting a hand around his mouth. Ignoring him hurts.

[philosophie_en_rose]

28. She doesn't care about the command.

She knows what the command is. I assure you that we do not dole out the pupperoni for random barking.

The thing is that she will do her tricks (running in a circle, sitting, rolling over, sitting up, walking on her hind legs, etc) to signal that she wants to get treats. Since barking is the easiest trick, she has no problem barking for nothing. Ignoring her means that she needs to convince us. :)

It doesn't matter that she doesn't get a treat.

We're teaching her "shhhh." meaning to be quiet and still.

[miss_kitty]

30. here's how I view dog barking any more

[Mutley]

4. He could have had a bad experience with rottweilers in his past.

Or he could have "little dog" syndrome, but as you said he is not this way with all big dogs. You did say he's wagging his tail as he is displaying aggressive behavior, which is odd. Wagging of the tail is usually a sign of happiness. Could he just be trying to play? I know my older dog will growl and bark when she's playing with other dogs. She sounds pissed, but she really isn't.

All I can say is make sure you have him on a leash at all times when outside the house, and if this seems to get worse you may want to have an animal behaviorist take a look at him.

[Cerridwen]

6. Thanks, that's what I'm starting to think; that he has a bad rottie

experience in his past - or he doesn't know how to play, though he seems to do well with other dogs. So weird.

Thanks again for your thoughts about this.

[Mutley]

9. I'd hate to think about this but...

Sometime people will use small dogs to train bigger dogs for fighting. Does he have any scars on him that would look like he'd been in any bad fights? It's awful the way people do that. Pits are most often used to fight, but other big strong dogs are used, too. Have you had him around any pit bulls? If not, give it a shot and see how he reacts.

[Cerridwen]

11. I thought of that as I was reading your earlier post

Thank heavens, that does NOT seem to be the case.

He arrived in the front yard well groomed and looking rather fearless and cocky; the epitome of a terrier. :)

So far, no pit bulls in his life of which I'm aware.

[zanne]

8. He's an adorable little monster.....

I don't have any advice to give you, but I'm so glad you took him in!

[WeRQ4U]

10. I have a 4 pound terrier mutt that does this too.

And I still am very worried about her when she does this. Although I have realized that if I let her go, she will cower and play in front of the other dog. The tail wagging was the give-away for me. She lunges and barks, but as soon as it's one-on-one, her ass is in the air and she puts her head down to show that she's submissive. It's really odd.

I don't let that happen though, unless it's a dog that I know isn't going to eat her for breakfast.

Little dogs are a trip, man. They don't really get it.

[Cerridwen]

12. Thanks everyone!

I'm beginning to think he's trying to play while protecting himself and being terrified.

Maybe I should take him to a doggie mind reader? LOL

Until I know, I'll continue constant vigilance around rotties.

Thanks again for your ideas.

[toey]

13. I watched the "dog whisperer" on NGEO channel saturday

a rotty had a similar problem with only white german shephards (WGS). he had the rotty get in a submissive position while the WGSs were around and had to take control of the situation.

there is a note at the beginning of the show not to use these techniques unless you are a trained professional...

good luck

[henslee]

15. Could you just see organizing a submissive exercise like this and

having it backfire into a total bloody doggy free for all....because you ignored the disclaimer at beginning of show?

[geniph]

19. My 2-1/2 pound male Chihuahua

used to attack ANY other male dog - all the way up to mastiffs. You could not convince that little imbecile that he wasn't a rottweiler. I had to put myself in mortal danger a couple of times to rescue his dumb ass when he went after (the ankles of) something large and ill-tempered.

Dumb damn dog.

Your little guy is cute.

[MadHound]

20. Umm, it could be these Rotties are female.

I know, I know, he is probably fixed, but that doesn't shut down the behaviour or hormones completely. Are the Rotties fixed?

Just a thought, your terrier likes his women big:evilgrin:

[Cerridwen]

21. Too funny.

I had that thought at one point. :D

He must like them mean, too - these "girls" were in no mood for his, er, advances.

[skygazer]

22. That can actually be a sign of intimidation on his part

If he's acting aggressive but wagging his tail, he may be intimidated but trying to put up a brave front. I think the poster who suggested he may have had a bad experience with a Rott may be on to something - it sounds logical to me.

Especially if he's on a leash - dogs tend to get a bit insecure in scary situations of they are tied or on a leash. It limits their options (in regards to fight or flight). They tend to get a little more aggressive as a way of making up for that insecurity.

It wouldn't show up with dogs he was comfortable but if he's got a problem with a specific type, it might show up then.

[Cerridwen]

23. I think so, too - I mentioned this to a friend and he thought I was

nuts - but Reilly really looks like he's trying to threaten the other dog while he's terrified and wanting to play as if to make everything okay.

Since he's a border terrier mix; I wouldn't dare let him off leash in any environment in which he can't be completely controlled; much less when he could possibly become doggie snack to another dog. The least distraction, butterfly, bird, especially rodents, and he's off.

My job now is to find a distraction for him when he's in this particular terrified/aggressive frame of mind.

Hmmm, clicker?

Edited to add: he has exhibited this behavior with the same dogs through a fence at a time when he was not in any way leashed or "restrained."

[radwriter0555]

29. I've had several little dogs that have the big dog syndrome. So far, I've

never taken the time to resolve it, but here is a training bit that addresses it pretty well.

Snip

Dog Attention, Control Around Other Dogs

For handling your dog around other dogs, the best method I've found is to teach your dog to ignore them. Stationary exercises do not work as well for this as moving exercises. If you teach her to give attention to you when you say her name, you can eventually develop the ability to get and hold her attention anytime you wish. With attention (and EYES) on you, she simply has none left to get overexcited about the other dog.

Here's how you do it. Have treats on your person (later you may use a toy instead, but it helps to start with tiny, tempting treats, lots of tiny pieces), but keep them out of the dog's sight. To initiate the attention sequence, say "!" and YOU MOVE ABRUPTLY away from her. If you want to say "Heel" or "Come" or "Front" or "By Me," that's fine too. The main thing is, say the name--this is going to become the word on which she will learn to look at you--then MOVE.

When she moves with you, quickly PRAISE her. This is where you would use a clicker if you wish to use that method, but a word of praise is fine, too. Then instantly whip out a treat and give it to her. Do not show the treats until you are ready to give one. This prevents the treat from becoming, in the dog's mind, an actual part of the command--or a bribe. Each time you give a treat, align it between the dog's eyes and yours. You want eye contact from her with that treat. Soon you will find her seeking your eye contact. Always praise her when she does that, and it's fine to give her a "free" treat for doing it.

Okay, you're not done. When you do this sequence, always do at least 3 to 5 in a row. That means each time you 1) say the name, 2) move, 3) praise, 4) whip out a treat and 5) give it. This doesn't necessarily take up a bunch of space, since you want it all to happen very fast. The movement is not over a great distance. You can move one direction the first time, back the other way the second time, etc. But always at least 3 to 5 repetitions in a row before you release the dog's attention. This is what teaches her to SUSTAIN that attention on you until you release it.

Practice this exercise everywhere, including at obedience class. You can do this with a toy, especially once you have taught it to her. But don't rush to get away from the food. Food is the easiest thing to deliver with this split-second timing, and will greatly help you in establishing the pattern of attention.


http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1010&S=1&SourceID=60

It wasn't an action that caused the fear, these are likely some very alpha females who just really intimidate the crap outta your little guy. (I say lack of action because my 2 malteses who've always had the same problem were never bait dogs, trust me...) His reaction is about fear, unfortunately.

That aside, what a cool looking little dude you have!

(edited to include a really great article on training)

[Coventina]

26. A note about tail-wagging:

Just FYI for whomever might find this interesting or informative.

Tail-wagging is actually a nervous response. It shows excitement with a bit of uncertainty. It does not mean the dog is happy / friendly (although a dog will wag when happy). Just because a dog is wagging his/her tail does not mean that it won't attack, although, it would probably be more likely to nip than to do a full-on assult.

People have often assumed that because their dog greets them with excitement and obvious joy, that the tail-wag is part of that. But it actually comes from the little bit of nervousness that their alpha-leaders have returned, and they are never 100% certain that we won't be punishing them or asserting our authority in some way. Our dogs have a certain amount of respect for us (hopefully) and with that respect comes a little bit of nervousness. It might be painful to think that our dogs have that little bit of "fear" of us, but it is part of the hierarchy that makes dog society work, and makes them such good companions.

I don't know if I have explained this well or not. But I hope this keeps people from making the mistake that a wagging dog is safe, because s/he might not be.

[Cerridwen]

27. Thank you!

That makes clear many things I was wondering. Not only does my guy wag his tail during these meetings, but the rotties do as well which has been used to assure me that Reilly won't become a rottie snack.

I very much appreciate this information for those whom would put Reilly in danger because their rottie is obviously just happy, "see, she's wagging her tail."