the food channel has gone religious

[donsu]

last nite they had a one hr. food show called Faithfully Fit (I think that's the correct title). Seeing this come up on the TV menue I thought to myself 'no this couldn't be a religious show'. so I turned in and damn it was a religious show on eating well to stay fit so you can have a healthy religious life. I only watched a few minutes of the show.


words fail me

[NMDemDist2]

1. that's just WRONG! thank heavens HGTV still has a progressive

bent!

[Taverner]

78. All the religions are trying to cash in on the health industry

Pat Robertson has weight loss products
As does the Catholic Church, the Seventh Day Adventists and Mormons.

Anyone who says Religion is not a business is dead wrong.

[Benhurst]

2. ...

:puke:

[niyad]

3. how bizarre--think it is time to write to foodtv and suggest that perhaps

we don't really want religion mixed in with our food.

[Clark2008]

4. One show doesn't make them religious.

We watched it well into the evening hours yesterday - not Faithfully Fit, of course - but reruns of the Iron Chef tournament.

I think one religious show doesn't mean the Food Network has gone religious.

[jobycom]

I agree.

I've got no problem with religious shows, as long as the government isn't paying for them, and they don't call for the assassination of other nation's leaders or preach violation of basic human rights. I don't want to interfere with anyone else's faith, I just don't want them to interfere with mine. There are other channels I can watch for an hour if I have to. My remote still works.

Just my opinion, obviously. Others should boycott or not as their consciences dictate.

[LostinVA]

24. I watch the Food Channel all the time,a nd they aren't "religious"

One religious-themed program does not a TBN make.

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Nope

It just means they have something for everyone. I've seen on some religious network a woman on there selling a book she has about eating healthy. She was just on there promoting the book and gaining healthy eating habits. I don't recall anyone talking about faith or anything and I was surprised since it was on a religious network. :shrug: I'm surprised they don't have that show on there.

[patrice]

5. Note the advertisers and don't buy their products.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Why?

[LostinVA]

26. Beats me...

[patrice]

51. Why support the religious cartels who have adopted all kinds

of window dressing to sell religious fascism?

[tx_dem41]

54. Having a show about how spiritual beliefs such as eastern religions,

Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. might affect diet is "religious fascism". Are you intentionally trying to be funny?

[patrice]

63. Both of us would have to know a whole lot more of the

details of the economic entities involved before we could say one way or another. I was just proposing the possibility. (All language is hypothetical).

[tx_dem41]

66. Hypothetical, as well as hyperbolic. n/t

[patrice]

70. Again, neither of us knows enough about the given phenomenon

to know whether it is hyperbolic or not.

If everyone were held to the standards that you seem to propose, nothing would ever be said, because there is no such thing as "proof".

[tx_dem41]

71. Can you propose a scenario where the show, as described by people..

on this thread who watched it, would represent "religious fascism"? Hypothetically, of course.

[patrice]

74. It would be something similar to what is going on with The Chronicles

of Narnia right now. Hypothetically, two or more people who share something, like, and promote it, and eventually it turns into a solicitation to attend "my church", and, of course, donate to the support of yet another economic religious enterprise. Yes, this kind of thing happens autonomously, but it also happens with investments from larger organizations of various types, for the specific purpose of recruiting.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

58. Yoga

is religious fascism?

The program feature a woman doing yoga as part of spirituality. Sorry, I don't see the connection.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

127. are you serious?

It's a tv show.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

126. exactly, what is the problem?

[GOPisEvil]

6. Perhaps you should include the whole story.

Here's a description from Food Network's website:

Faithfully Fit
Want to look better and feel great? Search no further, as Faithfully Fit takes you on the quest for physical, spiritual, and emotional well being. From yoga classes in the spas of Sedona, to religious-based diets guaranteed to help you lose weight, to healthier potluck suppers at the churches around the country, find out where health and spiritual happiness meet.

So, it's not all religious fundamentalism; it's about connecting physical and spiritual well-being. What the heck is so wrong with that?

[donsu]

15. then why is it named Faithfully Fit?

various religions have various laws and beliefs about food. like the Catholics had to eat fish on Fridays for some reason. however, nowadays they decided not to do that anymore. some religions can't eat pork. etc., etc.


all of which is idiotic.

I'd be happier if they changed the name to mental health and food or something like that and leave religion out of it. let religious cooking be on the religious channels.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. Wait a minute?

All references to religion have to be on the religion channel? You don't get to mention faith on a cooking show? It is somehow not PC?

It's not like the cooking channel is the courthouse lawn! It's a commercial enterprise. You pay, you play.

Why do I get the feeling that any mention of faith is akin to child porn on here? Damn, maybe there really WAS a war on Christmas but I just didn't notice it or something.

I feel like I have moved into an alternate universe.

I guess this means no more feng shui on decorating shows?

Are we maybe over-reacting a bit, talking about boycotting their sponsors? Was one of their meals barbecued heathens or something? What am I missing?

I'm... I'm just flabbergasted.

[donsu]

22. is feng shui a religion?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

31. Evidently debatable

This seemed like a fair source:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/fengshui.html

snip
"Considering that religions of the east are considerably different than religions of the west, it becomes increasingly difficult to classify Feng Shui using western ideas, but one classification available for Feng Shui would be as a quasi-religion. Arthur Greil discusses quasi-religions and includes in the category groups that "are deliberately ambiguous with regard to the issue of whether they are sacred or secular in nature." 41 Feng Shui is often categorized in book stores in the 'home improvement' category, but Feng Shui is a lot more than merely a type of home improvement plan. Quasi-religions emphasize their secular or spiritual sides, depending which is needed in any given situation. This is done within Feng Shui. One can look at itand see the religious ideas of the energy flows and their effect on all aspects of life. But Feng Shui can also be seen purely as a way to evaluate one's environment without looking at the religious aspect of it. Therefore we could classify Feng Shui as a quasi-religion."

[LostinVA]

33. Grannie -- read my post below -- it is a religious tenet from Taoism

[LostinVA]

32. Of course it is -- it is a religious practice from Taoism

And Chinese friends of mine very much do consider it a religion practice, no different than communion, etc.

[LostinVA]

29. Grannie, please don't say "on here"

I am so against the intolerant Freepers who have hijacked some religion in this country (and who truly aren't followers of Christ), and I am 100% for separation of Church and State. However.... I think this is a tempest ina teapot, and there's nothing wrong with mentioning spirituality in this program, or on the History Channel, etc.

Notice the majority of people on this thread don't agree with the strict stance the OP is taking. Including me.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

38. Okay, point taken

I'm calming down.

It's just that I personally try so hard to be accepting of belief, lack of belief, searching, etc. Then I read a post that says boycot sponsors because a channel has a show dealing with religion, as if it were somehow just an awful thing. And these same folks will rip the RW new ones for boycotting a channel that they feel plays risque shows... and it all feels so useless. It is the exact same illness, just different symptoms. Like moderation and tolerance can never be achieved.

[LostinVA]

39. You're preaching to the choir

As my ex-Baptist girlfriend says!

[patrice]

72. I don't think anyone is saying "All references to religion . . . "

The problem with SOME references to religion is that they are used to sell things by association: politics, consumer goods and services, "salvation", or a particular brand of religion, to name a few.

I am a spiritual person too, but I am tired of everyone working me about it.

[Goblinmonger]

23. Catholics are still supposed to not eat meat on Friday

Little known bit of trivia. Church dogma still states that catholics need to give up meat on Friday. If they choose, they can give up something else in its stead, but the sacrifice still needs to be made to remind them of what they have.

[donsu]

30. thanks, didn't know that

nt

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. There was a show on Aruveda

cooking not long ago. Nobody complained about that.

Food is all about culture. Religion is part of culture.

Some Jews eat Kosher, Hindus are vegetarians, Muslims don't eat pork. That's life.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. Oh I don't know perhaps

because no matter what your religion it it is still called FAITH. :eyes: Duh.

[jobycom]

17. Thanks. That sounds kind of cool. nt.

[ghostsofgiants]

86. Where the hell have you been?

Anything even remotely religious is pure fundie bullshit. You've been around WAY longer than I have, you should know that by now! :P

[HEyHEY]

106. Cause it's evil man...>EVIL!

[tx_dem41]

7. Well, their "ad" for it on their website has a lady practicing yoga....

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/tv


"Want to look better and feel great? Search no further, as Faithfully Fit takes you on the quest for physical, spiritual, and emotional well being. From yoga classes in the spas of Sedona, to religious-based diets guaranteed to help you lose weight, to healthier potluck suppers at the churches around the country, find out where health and spiritual happiness meet."


At least from their packaging, it appears to cover all spiritual beliefs. I just don't see anything wrong with this,and I'm an Atheist. As someone who was a practicing vegetarian for 3 years while exploring Buddhism, the show sounds interesting. Thanks for pointing it out! :)

[donsu]

18. "religious based diets" ???

how cultish can you get

[tx_dem41]

27. "Cultish"?

How afraid can you get?

[donsu]

37. laughing - afraid of what?

religions are cults.

[tx_dem41]

40. You very obviously are afraid of the strength/weakness of your

own personal beliefs or non-beliefs. You thus want to suppress all mention of others' beliefs/non-beliefs.

Just my opinion.

[patrice]

75. Show me where anyone said "all" anything, please.

Straw Man.

[LostinVA]

80. "Religions are cults"

That is an absolute. Not, some sects or religions are cults. Not a straw man at all.

[patrice]

85. Okay.

It's a big thread; I missed that.

I do not, Necessarily, agree with the statement, "Religions are cults".

Though I will say that the difference between cult religions and non-cult religions, IMO, is the unique physical and spiritual configurations of each and every individual involved, so, since the Reality is at the individual level, the "cultishness" at the aggregate level, Religion, is indeterminent. We can only form our best guess, act accordingly, re-evaluate appropriately, and adapt if necessary.

[donsu]

98. I love you

nt

[patrice]

102. Thank you.

And I you.

[LostinVA]

45. You just insulted the majority of DU

You apparently don't have any idea of what a true "cult" is, and are confusing certain people and sects with religion/spirituality as a whole. You honestly have no right to piss on other people's beliefs when they -- and their beliefs -- are harming no one.

I watched the program your OP mentions, and it was certainly not some kind of subversive religious indoctrination.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

47. Perhaps that is your opinion

but standard English doesn't agree, and either does Sociology 101. One might be a subset of the other.

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Than you're ignorant

[patrice]

79. That would be "then".

[LostinVA]

34. *sigh* No it is not

The Old Testament diet has been faddish for a while -- it's akin to the Caveman Diet.

[FreedomAngel82]

59. We don't follow that

Christians follow the New Testament since that is where Christ is from hence the name CHRISTIAN. :eyes: The rest of the New Testament, after the gospel books (the first four) are the apostles spreading Jesus' message and putting the church together. I remember one Biblical person having a dream where God gave the message he (and the rest of us) could eat whatever we wanted. Just not to overeat of course and being sensible. Whomever follows the Old Testament isn't a Christian.

[LostinVA]

76. I was raised Catholic, so I know what Christians believe

I was answering the OP's post above, and was simply saying that there is something called the Old Testament Diet (I have also heard it called the Jesus Diet), and it is akin to the Caveman Diet.

I really am kinda slagged off at your eye rolling smiley, because I said nothing either stupid nor disrespectful in my post. I am honestly puzzled by your post to me...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. I disagree

that basing your diet on your religion is "cultish."

It is the fabric of culture.

[donsu]

44. it may be the fabric of your culture but it's not the fabric of other

people's culture.

[tx_dem41]

46. Then might I suggest.........

TURNING OFF THE TV.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

48. I am talking the definition

of culture. I teach World Cultures and religion is a part of culture. Your particular subculture may not include religion, but the practice of religion is a behavior of culture.

[FreedomAngel82]

60. So stick to your own

and don't make fun of someone else's. I take offense as a person of faith. And here democrats/progressives are supposed to be open-minded and tolerant. Gee, you surely can't tell in this thread! I'm too liberal for Christian's and too Christian for liberals!

[tx_dem41]

64. FA....please note that there are many liberals on this thread...

that agree with you.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

68. Yes they do

and I'm glad we have bait threads like this now and again because it reminds us all how far we have to go in the way of tolerance. It's good to listen and remember that every day we want to look in the mirror and know we are NOT like THEM. That we will celebrate humanity in ALL its diverse forms and we will respect all our co-inhabitors of this earth, no matter how alien they seem to us. That's the prime directive.

[patrice]

81. I'm with you on that Grannie, as long as it Really is Celebration

and not Exploitation.

It is possible for the TV to be about Celebration, but that is secondary to Economic Exploitation.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

90. I will not deny

that propaganda is propagated on tv. But this show (which I watched) was really more of a description of how faith affects food choices and preparation.

If it were some slimy bad hair dude selling Jesus Juice so we'd all go to heaven, I'm with you. But this was no worse than the history channel describing the great cathedrals.

It's fine to be an atheist (not saying I know whether you particularly are or are not) but we can't deny the effect of faith upon culture.

[patrice]

92. Raised Conservative Catholic.

Mass 6 days a week. Catechism 5 days a week. Family Prayers on our knees together every day. Confession monthly. All of the Sacraments except Holy Orders and Extreme Unction. Holy Days. No pantsuits on women. Head coverings and QUIET at all times in the Sanctuary. First Fridays. Sang Gregorian chant in choir. Midnight Mass for Christmas. All of it . . .

I'm more of an Agnostic than anything else now, because I fear sacrilege in assuming we know God's "will" absolutely. I still love the Mass though.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

94. It's hard to take the Catholic

out of the kid, isn't it? Because the Mass ... well, it is a salve in many ways.

Do you still love chant?

I went to a convent high school. No kneelers, long veils. Good times. (ha!)

But it left me with something..the ability to meditate, I guess. And to hold my breath when the incense goes by.

[patrice]

99. I think I'm still Catholic.

We were raised on the axiom that, no matter what, if you were Baptised (Catholic preferably, but otherwise will do in a pinch), nothing undoes Baptism except Ex-communication.

My Church has, on balance, been good for me, though I could tell you stories about things I really had to struggle to overcome because of it.

Two of my sisters and I sang Panis Angelicus to my Dad (in his death bed) yesterday. Yes, I love Gregorian Chant.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

101. I am sorry you are losing your dad

when my mother was dying she asked me to sing her a child's hymn called "Jesus Tender Shepherd." I did, but was very uncomfortable doing it for some reason. I was, oddly, angry at her.

[patrice]

107. Yep, I know a lot about Anger.

Can't get mad at a "cat" because it can't "fly". I'm working on it.

[GirlinContempt]

73. Er, actually a good majority of religions

have dietary rules. From all different cultures.

[datasuspect]

118. as a pythagorean

i am forbidden to eat white beans and positively eschew irrational numbers.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

159. Pythagoreanism is a fairy tale

You all go around claiming that the sum of (the areas of) two small squares equals (the area of) the large one.

Nonsense. And don't try to prove it to me!

[tishaLA]

146. It had a segment on challah

and the significance of challah and the braiding techniques in Jewish culture. That's the only part of the show I caught--it was at the end. I thought it was fascinating because, even though I'm Jewish, I don't necessarily know enough about the traditions and their significations.

[stepnw1f]

8. Then It Won't Last

Too dorky....

[Marnieworld]

9. It was a special not a series

One hour of programming on an otherwise secular network 24/7 365 days a year. I'm agnostic and I don't like religion crammed down my throat either but this doesn't bother me. There was a section about yoga too- hardly the 700 club if you ask me. Not a big deal in my opinion.

[Raster]

10. OK, next time they're looking for the next food tv star, I'm gonna

don a devil's costume and do "Sizzlin' with Satan." I'll specialize in barbeque, grilling and cooking techniques that feature open flame.

Sizzlin' with Satan's Deviled Eggs

10 hard-boiled eggs
1/4 cup spicy brown mustard
4 tablespoons mayonnaise
1 Tbsp. favorite hot sauce
3 tablespoons minced fresh parsley leaves
Freshly cracked pepper to taste
Sprinkle of paprika

Halve the eggs lengthwise, removing the yolks and retaining the egg white shell. Mash the yolks and add remaining ingredients. Mound the filling in the egg white shells. Sprinkle with paprika to taste.

[donsu]

20. sounds good, I'll have some :)

nt

[niyad]

21. that sounds like a GREAT idea--I look forward to seeing you on the

channel.

[rucky]

11. from the network that brought us Rachel Ray

I've learned to use the channel changer quite well.

How about that Iron Chef marathon yesterday? More than makes up for it!

[donsu]

28. yeah, I dig the Iron Chef too - I think the Japanese Iron Chef is better

the american commentators seem too competitive with each other. egos seem to be in the way. but this is just a little complaint.

[rucky]

36. agreed

Sakai is the bestest! I always root against Flay, the cocky bastage.

[donsu]

42. me too!

nt

[ET Awful]

175. Rachel Ray is proof positive that the Food Channel is not religious

otherwise they wouldn't have hired the bride of Satan to host a show.

[tx_dem41]

12. Sure are a lot of people that are afraid of any mention of "faith"

in a private environment around here. I'm an Atheist. Not afraid of someone's "faith" or "non-faith", expressed in a private environment one bit.

[patrice]

87. How is it that you are able to read people's minds so well?

Lots of people are not afraid of "Faith". It's just that my Faith is none of your Business, unless I Freely choose to try make it so.

Overly-simplified characterizations (i.e. false dichotomies) of others look kind of suspicious.

[Journeyman]

111. I don't think tx_dem "reads minds" at all. . .

he merely reads some posters' rants and sees the self-evident conclusions. . .

[patrice]

112. I suggest he test his hypotheses, rather than state them as fact.

[Journeyman]

115. What's to test? . . .

Proofs in the pudding (so to speak). . . and in this thread I've seen plenty of anger and fear over what sounds like a fairly benign issue. Even you have blustered and made demands, only to modify your stance when challenged. . .

[patrice]

117. He could ask. Or otherwise qualify his statements.

What have I actually changed in essence? I still think each and everyone of us should, everytime anyone gets "religious", decide whether you are being exploited economically or otherwise and act accordingly. If it is economic exploitation, Boycott. If it is psychological/emotional exploitation, call it what it is and do what you decide is appropriate.

Are you Protestant? I thought that's what Martin Luther was about.

[Journeyman]

124. And this from the poster who said "all language is hypothetical". . .

Have you no beliefs yourself, and that's why you're so challenged by those who do? And never mind religious beliefs or spiritual precepts. . . have you no faith in your own thoughts or your expression of them?

And now you query if I'm Protestant, as though that or the teachings of Martin Luther have any bearing whatsoever on my opinion of the proper response to a cooking show. By all means, boycott a cable food show, write letters to advertisers who most likely agree with the intent of the show, nail your 95 ingredients to the kitchen cupboard and make your displeasure known to the Pope (or Julia Childs. . . I'm not sure who's province this issue falls within). . . as for me, I've called it as I see it and I think I know the proper response: I'm going to go make myself a sandwich. It's well past lunchtime. (And though I've not eaten this morning, I won't challenge your sensibilities by proclaiming I'm about to break fast.)

[patrice]

134. Certainty is the opposite of Faith. That's a dichotomy I can embrace.

"Have you no beliefs yourself, and that's why you're so challenged by those who do?"

You know very little about me, except what's in this post, how can you assume I am challenged by people of (real) Faith? It seems to me that dependence upon absolutes of any kind is the opposite of Faith. I have beliefs, but I don't count myself equal to God. That's Blasphemy.

"And never mind religious beliefs or spiritual precepts. . . have you no faith in your own thoughts or your expression of them?"

I calculate probablities just like anyone else, so I can say things like, "The Sun will rise tomorrow." "This is right." "That's wrong." But I do not assume that my mind, in ANY way, can contain the complete truth about anything for everyone and I do not assume that words are the same thing as that to which they refer, ever. I do the best I can, and act on that and have Faith about what I don't "know" for sure. Any need for assurance is the opposite of Faith to me.

"And now you query if I'm Protestant, as though that or the teachings of Martin Luther have any bearing whatsoever on my opinion of the proper response to a cooking show."

How can they not? I just don't get Christianity that says this is relevant and that isn't. If God is a "God", EVERYTHING is relevant. Every second of our lives, every breath, every thought, every action adds up to something. I just don't claim to know exactly what that "something" is, because to do so is blasphemy.

Martin Luther fought the Money Changers in the Catholic Church. He opposed the absolute infallability of the Pope. Does none of that matter anymore? Is the measure of "the Church" now how economically successful it and its congregations are? How certain they all feel that they are "Saved"?

"By all means, boycott a cable food show, write letters to advertisers who most likely agree with the intent of the show, nail your 95 ingredients to the kitchen cupboard and make your displeasure known to the Pope (or Julia Childs. . . I'm not sure who's province this issue falls within). . . as for me, I've called it as I see it and I think I know the proper response: I'm going to go make myself a sandwich. It's well past lunchtime. (And though I've not eaten this morning, I won't challenge your sensibilities by proclaiming I'm about to break fast.)

Re the sandwich: How convenient; you won't be expected to answer this post.

"Enjoy" "your" "lunch" "."

[Journeyman]

161. I'm sorry. I was unaware I had to remain permanently available. . .

to answer every idiotic post someone makes directed to me. And yours certainly qualifies as idiotic, given how you insist that Protestant Christianity must have EVERYTHING to do with my response to this unbelievably foolish thread.

I ask again, why should the query about whether or not I'm a Protestant, and references to the teachings of Martin Luther, have anything to do with my opinion of a cooking show? And more importantly, why are you asking such an idiotic question of a poster whose avatar is that of an irreligious Jew best known for his attacks on Religions, Incorporated?

Rather than Martin Luther, I think the thought of A. Lincoln more apropos: This thread's compressed the most words into the smallest ideas imaginable.

[patrice]

172. I didn't say you had to remain permanently available.

I just doubted that you would return.

"I ask again, why should the query about whether or not I'm a Protestant, and references to the teachings of Martin Luther, have anything to do with my opinion of a cooking show? "

Each "answer" is unique. You're supposed to figure that out for yourself. No one can do it for you.

"And more importantly, why are you asking such an idiotic question of a poster whose avatar is that of an irreligious Jew best known for his attacks on Religions, Incorporated?"

Because I'm curious about Protestants and I don't have the clue who your avatar (picture) is. Is it Bob Dylan? Congratulations on your interest in "attacks on Religions, Incorporated". Given our similar interest in that, why are you calling me an idiot? I didn't do anything to you except ask a question.

Automatic insults are often very characteristics of "the opposition". I've noticed it happens a lot when there is something someone doesn't understand or there is some ignorance. The compensation for perceived inadequacy is to insult.

You know Lincoln was a man beset by "relativity", and, hence, rather depressed, since relativity was very out of place at the time.

" . . . smallest ideas imaginable." Do you know anything about chemistry or physics. Lots of "small" ideas. "Small" doesn't make something un-important.

[patrice]

123. I ask again . . .

Where have I " . . . blustered and made demands . . ."?

And, oh yeah, what about Martin Luther?

[datasuspect]

113. it's the same bullshit line of thinking

that leads the "faithful" to say things like: "you must be mad at god," or "i'll pray for you."

[GirlinContempt]

116. I think you should look up

dichotomy in the dictionary.

[patrice]

119. What's the problem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichotomy

[GirlinContempt]

120. For there to be a false dichotomy

you'd have to have someone claiming two mutually exclusive views without any space for a third/fourth/etc when there is in fact one.

Or, you know, branching of an ancestral line into two equal diverging branches.

On edit:
You'll find that a dichotomy, either false or true, is not "Overly-simplified characterizations"

[patrice]

122. Tx_"Dem"

Is saying it is true that if someone objects to people intruding into his/her Faith it is because they do not have courage/strength, i.e. Being private in matters of Faith excludes strength and courage. That is a false dichotomy. Whereas it MAY be true, it isn't NECESSARILY true that persons who display their Faith are strong and courageous, nor that if you are strong and courageous you will display your Faith. Personally I think it makes a whole lot of people dependent on others, ant then when the fabric of society breaks down you get the Holocaust and Lynchings.

[GirlinContempt]

125. That is STILL not a dichotomy

What tx_dem said is not a dichotomy. TX_dem said a lot of people are afraid of the mention of 'faith'. Then said that they are not afraid of anyone's faith or non faith.
For a dichotomy to exist, there have to be two opposing ideas, very like a Hegelian dialectic, except that a dichotomy usually supposes two solid opposing forces/ideas to which there is no alternative. (see: Mutually exclusive). There are 'true' dichotomies, such as stack/heap, and 'false' ones such as 'with us/with them'. Clearly in programming you can not 'be' both stack and heap. Also, clearly, you can choose not to join someone with out joining their enemies in many forms.
What tx_dem said would only be a dichotomy if they'd made an assertion of "this/that" which was never stated.
You CAN say you disagree with the presented fact that a lot of people are afraid, but unless stated that you are either afraid or X you can't call it a false dichotomy.

Was that clear enough?

Edited for continuity problems

[patrice]

132. His assumption is when people object it is because they are afraid.

The two opposing (mutually exclusive) ideas are Private Faith and Courage. There were no qualifiers, no "third terms" as in a dialectic. Yes, He didn't say, as you put it, "this/that", but he doesn't have to because the logic of "they are uncomfortable becasue they are afraid" is that "uncomfortable" and "courage" are mutually exclusive.

Clear? No, your post is a little garbbled.

[GirlinContempt]

133. That was never stated.

That is your take on it. My post is only garbled if you don't understand the basic principals of language, which I'm beginning to suspect. There is no logic in your conclusion, by your own standards and by mine. You were calling that poster out for 'reading minds' which is what you presume to do now, and you state a logical termination of a thought which you also point out is NOT a dichotomy so, in fact, could have numerous and diverse conclusions.

[patrice]

135. " My post is only garbled if . . . " Another false dichotomy.

based upon the assumption that your statements and confused communication are mutually exclusive.

Garbbled it is my dear.

[GirlinContempt]

138. You're REALLY reaching

I really think you need to learn how to use language and logic. Seriously.

[patrice]

152. So there's a (single) way to use language?

And you are the proprietor of that?

[GirlinContempt]

155. The general use of language

is communication, which is why we have common definitions of words. It enables us to understand each other and exchange ideas with a basic understanding at the root of the exchange. There are many ways to use language, and if you chose to use it in a way that causes people to not understand you, and challenge you on your misuse of the understood meaning of words, feel free. We all must follow whatever path fits us best.

[patrice]

156. I don't dispute any of that.

Generalities are averages. Averages, especially of large groups, contain wide variations.

[GirlinContempt]

130. And, even editing it

doesn't take what you're saying any further from pure conjecture.

I'd also leave the quotes out in the future. Never know when someone might take offense to your passive-aggressive call-out of their dem creds. And I KNOW you don't want to give offense.

[patrice]

136. Oh, Do you now?

More mutually exclusive assumptions.

[GirlinContempt]

137. I guess sarcasm is beyond some people

[patrice]

141. One often hears that "sarcasm" doesn't work well on the internet.

Hence, the :sarcasm: here at the DU.

[GirlinContempt]

142. I guess it's time to free ourselves of all hope

that people who apparently define things on the fly and mistake conjecture for logic can do so without a smiley to point them in the right direction.

[patrice]

145. Why don't you get that what you are saying there applies as much

to you as it does to me?

Maybe someone swallows what you say whole; ". . . mistake conjecture for logic . . . " may impress someone, but certainly not as many as you assume.

Funny, how I've gotten so far in life, being so incompetent and all.

[GirlinContempt]

150. Well, seeing as I never

called you incompetent, I wouldn't find it particularly funny. What I find particularly funny is that you're missing the ridiculousness of this whole exchange. Boiled down to it's basic level:

Even if a statement of dichotomy is never made, such a statement still exists by taking the words to their 'logical' conclusion (using words not even in the OP) causes it to be a dichotomy. However, it is a 'false' dichotomy, which allegedly does not take in to account a number of possible other factors (by your own personal definition, an over simplification of an issue). And yet, for it to be put in to the state of a dichotomy through assumption/logic/conjecture, one has to ignore all other possibilities, forming in fact something worse than a dichotomy. A state in which there is only ONE possibility, not even a false two. And then, using this singular possibility, try to call another out for using a false dichotomy. :crazy:

[GirlinContempt]

131. Nice edit

wikipedia isn't a dictionary, though it STILL proves my point.

[patrice]

139. No it doesn't.

It also is just more words. All negotiable, which is the point of Wikipedia. If we weren't able to say things like "Birds are music", language would not work at all.

[GirlinContempt]

140. Then I can just claim that

calling someone an idiot is okay, because the it's negotiable what the word idiot means, despite its definition within the english language?
Neat-o, I'll keep that in mind the next time I use a word or phrase without knowing its meaning and want to weasel out of it.

[patrice]

143. Yes, you can do that.

We hear stuff like that all of the time: War is Peace. Blastocysts have rights. Patriotism is obediance. The ends justifies the means. Violence is strength. Good environmental policies are anti-business. Love is need, to name a few.

Are you telling me that there is an absolute definition of "idiot"? Intelligence is relative.

[GirlinContempt]

144. Yes, actually there IS

A person affected with idiocy

[patrice]

147. Correction: There is a person affected with what you call idiocy.

Have you ever read a book called "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" by Thomas R. Kuhn? I recommend it for an understanding of what paradigm shift is.

Or how about the Absurdists? Beckett? Ionesco?

The word "idiot" is not the same thing as that to which it refers. There is no necessary relationship between it and any specific mental condition. The word is an arbitrary label and the fact of someone's intelligence is something else that exists within a context.

Christ was an Idiot.

[GirlinContempt]

151. So, you claim that

you can affect a shift in language just by choosing to redefine common words to fit whatever situation you feel like using them in? Thats pretty silly.

If I tried to say "Oh no, I called you an idiot meaning I think you're super gorgeous" I'd be laughed out of the room.

If I wrote a paper based on my own definitions of words, I'd fail.

If I tried to interact with people and expect them to KNOW that I am redefining words to fit with whatever we happen to be talking of, I'd never be able to have a meaningful conversation.

Words evolve as a natural course and are recognized widely as having shifted from their previous definitions (granted, like idiot), however to claim that we must all accept YOUR definition of common english as some sort of "paradigm shift" defeats the point of language, as a common communication tool.

[patrice]

153. Straw Man.

I said nothing of the sort.

I was trying to see if you know anything about how science (a.k.a. knowledge) evolves, because "knowledge" is what we base language on.

[GirlinContempt]

157. That's not a straw man

That's following what you're saying to it's 'logical' conclusion based on your other posts.
Or, are you the only one allowed to make any sort of assumption based on a perceived idea and then state it as fact?

[patrice]

158. I began with the statement that language is hypothetical.

Mine, yours, anyone's.

[patrice]

149. Please, try to tear yourself away from the dictionary a little.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

162. Patrice and Girl?

You guys are awesome! My brain is going to explode.
You have completely outclassed me to the point I have nothing to say. What are you guys, doctoral students or what??? In logic and reasoning?

I teach gifted kids and like to think they can handle themselves in writing like the two of you one day.

Kudos.

[patrice]

164. I'm jealous. I miss the classroom a lot!!!

I used to teach Advance Placement Psychology (as Science, i.e. research) to seniors WAY brighter than I, some of them taking 4 or 5 AP classes, even including AP calc. and chemistry. They always amaze me. I can hold my own, but this really is a little pointless without more empirical data to go on.

I've enjoyed it Girl, thanks!

Gotta go now.

[GirlinContempt]

165. It's been keen

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Food is food

I'll eat it whether it is faithfully fit or not!

I do remember "the Jesus diet" where you were supposed to eat dried fish.

[Deja Q]

14. Unless they were serving angel food cake, that's inappropriate for them.

Their topic is food. Consumables. Things you put in your mouth.

Hell, even a show about oral sex is more appropriate than religious fluff.

[LostinVA]

35. The program was about food

[TallahasseeGrannie]

88. inappropriate?

I'll have to ponder that word for a while.

Food... feasts... Christmas...fasting...Ramedan....Seder... latkes... hot cross buns... Thanksgiving... Lent...loaves and fishes...Kosher...haram...Communion Table...

[no_hypocrisy]

43. What Would Jesus Eat (Nosh)?

"I believe that I'll have another slice of angelfood cake, please."

[TallahasseeGrannie]

49. I doubt there was one thing on Jesus's

diet I would find appealing!

[no_hypocrisy]

50. LOL!

I agree. I'll "pass over" the menu, thanks.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

57. Yes, and I've had a few Seder meals

that left a lot to be desired, too! (the official part, that is)

However, I do have a weakness for Manichevitz wine. That stuff will turn your eyeballs purple.

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Remember Jesus was a Jew

So that should give you an idea.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

65. I'm thinking

a lot of bread, nuts, olives, fish....

Hmmm interesting bruchetta possibilities..

[JVS]

67. Not even the wine?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

69. I'll admit to leaving more than one

Seder dinner a bit unsteady on my feet!

[datasuspect]

114. unleavened bread?

olives? cheese? lamb? goat?

think of the typical middle eastern/mediteranean restaurant.

shit, i wouldn't mind some jesus grub!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

160. Can't get into lamb and goat

but some nice goat cheese on a pita, with some olive coated greens...

mmmmm

[MADem]

52. Are we certain this wasn't PAID PROGRAMMING?

I can turn on MSNBC or even my local NBC affiliate in the early morning hours and find some asshole with a Cockney or Aussie accent trying to sell me some shit. Sometimes, these infomercials are disguised as self-help shows. Did the merchant buy the time, or was the show produced by or for the Food Channel?

And I did find this website, no idea if it is related at all-- https://www.faithfullyfit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?%20 --that is a "Christian Aerobic Resource" organization called Faithfully Fit.

Perhaps it is their response to that incredibly large and horrifying God Warrior lady who went off the page on that family swap show????

Eh...I'm of the mind that, so long as there is real CHOICE on the tube, just pick up the remote and click!!!

[NYCGirl]

61. No, it was not paid programming. I just watched it — having TiVoed it

last night. Other than being somewhat dull, it was inoffensive, and covered all types of religion reflected in food and exercise programs. I did like the segment on making Challah bread and the yoga stuff was good. The segment about the African-American community in Detroit was very nice — if the church can help people eat better and exercise and reduce the epidemic of diabetes, it's a good thing.

[patrice]

89. Boycott is the main thing that works.

Note the response it got here. And that was just a hypothetical boycott.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

91. Let's switch gears

because all this talk about food is getting me hungry.

Now, boycotts. Do you really think they work? Because I don't. But I have no proof, it is just a feeling, but Dobson's group is always boycotting something and I don't see any of their victims going under.

What do you think?

[patrice]

97. The history of this country is Economic Subjugation and Control of

the Many by the Few (of various "stripes"). Yes, I'm very influenced by Howard Zinn on this matter. Unless and until we address that there will be no real Change, no real "salvation". I guess that also makes me a Liberation Theologist, but I need to acquaint myself with that particular school of thought more, before I can really say that or not.

[CanuckAmok]

77. Demand the separation of Church and Steak!

n/t

[GirlinContempt]

84. My potatoes can believe whatever they want to!

[Bridget Burke]

82. So--you only watched a few minutes of the show.

I found the description on FOOD TV's website. Sounds interesting. I'll probably catch it eventually.

www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_sp/episode/0,1976,FOOD_9994_41924,00.html

Treat your words with respect so they don't embarrass you again.

[Shine]

83. that's effing bizarre.

:eyes:

[GirlinContempt]

93. Lets have a little chat about fundamentalism and cults, shall we?

The most popular definition of fundamentalism is "2 : a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles"
And, frankly, I see a lot of crazy fundie behaviour around this joint, ESPECIALLY in the name of 'stopping the fundies'. This idea that any kind of public assertion of faith is somehow either an effort to convert or some sort of offensive force is ridiculous. The idea that an expression of faith is offensive is pretty sick shit. Yeah, the GOVERNMENT shouldn't force a religion on it's people, yes we should all try to be tolerant kind human beings. But branding a network, organization, or person as being religious based on one show/idea/word and then throwing it out there as some kind of negative reflection on them is neither tolerant nor kind. It's fundamentalism in another form, and it's bullshit. Hateful, intolerant bullshit.
If people have such HUGE problems with faith that they are not willing to cope with internally, I suggest they unplug the phone, TV, computer and hide in their basement under a tarp. Faith has always been a HUGE part of humanity, and probably always will be. If people can't exist with it without becoming an intolerant fundie I suggest they disengage themselves.
This kind of crap makes me nauseous.

I'll let CULT speak for itself:
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

[ghostsofgiants]

96. FREEPER!!!11

:P

[TallahasseeGrannie]

100. Well said.

It scares me, the mirroring of fundamentalism we can find among our own. I thought this was the big tent?

[GirlinContempt]

104. Thank you

Glad I'm not the only one who sees it

[patrice]

110. One's problems with Others are pretty often one's problems with one's

self. Recognizing that what bothers me about you is what bothers me about myself is as good a place to start a relationship as any, maybe even better than most connections.

We shouldn't deny/reject/hide-from the fact that "we" are like this too.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

154. Oh absolutely

I have a "friend" who is so much like me she can finish my sentences. What a witch. Can't stand her.

[crispini]

95. Well, having read the whole thread,

including the description of the show, I have to admit, it sounds fairly ecumenical and inoffensive to me. Actually it sounds kind of interesting. I'll have to see if I can catch it sometime.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

103. I commend you for reading it through

and also will add that your username reminds me of a lovely, perfectly baked pastry.

mmmmmmm

[crispini]

105. LOL! Mmm. Food.

I think I'll hop off DU and go cook! :P

[Initech]

108. What would Jesus eat?

[ghostsofgiants]

148. What would Jesus do for a Klondike bar?

[Beware the Beast Man]

109. Keep your Jesus off my pitas!

:eyes:

[datasuspect]

121. if jesus came to your house, well i wonder what he'd eat

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

128. This is the silliest thread I've seen in a long time.

[GirlinContempt]

129. dingding

give this man a pony

[Texasgal]

167. Agreed....

Maybe I should bookmark it! That way I'll have a nice stupid thread to laugh at! :rofl:

[GOPisEvil]

168. Yes, yes it is.

Talk about getting worked up over nothing.

[Beware the Beast Man]

163. I'll never watch that Jeso-fascist Alton Brown again.

x(

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

169. You will or face extreme rendition

:mad:

[Beware the Beast Man]

170. I'll say four Hail Marys and watch a $40 a Day marathon.

That is penance enough. :D

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

171. Whoa - you didn't kill somebody

the punishment shall fit the crime. One segment of 30 minute meals shall suffice.

[richmwill]

166. To summarize-

Someone saw a show on the Food Network that was about cooking in a spiritual way. Said person becomes highly offended, horrified and upset.
163 posts later- and I still say "Who Cares"?

As we tell the other side- you see that little button on your remote control that says "Off"? You see those other ones that say "Channel Up" and "Channel Down"? Next time you see a show that you don't like- use ANY one of them. Much better than whining.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

173. Yeah, and you know what?

We never talked about THE FOOD! WHAT DID THEY EAT?

[Mutley]

174. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

The Food Network shows cooking from all sorts of cultures. I don't think we need to be the polar opposites of the fanatics trying to 'clean up tv'.

[The empressof all]

176. Locking

Food ---- God


Either way the flames burn.