Real Xmas Tree vs. Fake: the wtmusic household controversy

[wtmusic]

Which is more ecologically sound: having a real christmas tree or a fake one?

I argue that having fake one leaves a real one standing somewhere, manufacturing oxygen and depleting CO₂, and makes unnecessary all the energy to cut it down, haul it to a lot somewhere, haul it home, and dispose of it.

Mrs. wtmusic argues that the real one is quickly recycled, whereas the fake one will take hundreds of years with all the plastic, wire, etc. occupying space in a landfill, not to mention the harmful chemicals used to create it.

What do you think?

[MissMillie]

1. How about a real one you can re-plant?

Isn't that the best way to go?

[wtmusic]

2. You mean in a pot?

Never even thought of that...wouldn't the pot have to be huge?

[MissMillie]

5. Yes, and getting the tree in the house can be difficult

because the whole thing can get rather heavy.

But.... The only waste involved is the energy to light the darn thing (if you can call that a "waste").

[Whoa_Nelly]

18. Or place it outside in front of a window

use outdoor rated lighting, creative and/or plastic ornaments, and place gifts inside at the window.

...or buy a small potted tree that is tabletop size. As a suggestion, Norfolk Island pines make great indoor plants if you have a greenthumb, and can also be placed outdoors during cool months.

[texanwitch]

24. Me to, I love Norfolk pines, I have 4 of them in my yard.

I have two really big ones, one is about 20 ft. tall and the other one is about 10.

I just bought a new one for next year, about 3ft. tall, it will be perfect by December.

[Shell Beau]

3. I love real trees.

[DS1]

4. After reviewing the arguments

I'd have to err on the side of the person who doesn't think you need to buy a new fake tree every year.

[wtmusic]

6. I wouldn't buy the fake tree

I'd grow a new one each year :silly:

[kick-ass-bob]

7. Your argument about "leaving a real one standing" is false.

There are Christmas tree farms, and they keep replanting every year, so when they cut down one batch, another batch is planted. I forget how old a 6-8 foot tree is, but there are always the same number of trees in the ground.

[wtmusic]

8. good point

I only bring that up when I feel the rest of my argument is getting thin...

[kick-ass-bob]

9. Plus, you are helping an American industry by buying a real tree

instead of the Chinese economy (where a majority of fake trees come from)


My state, NC, has a very large Xmas tree industry

[Shell Beau]

11. Our trees we buy come from NC!!

:7

[Orsino]

10. Kill a tree for Christ!

I was never into disposable real trees. Fake ones do just fine.

[Shell Beau]

12. You can always plant it again so you aren't really killing it.

[Orsino]

16. Yeah. That I admire. n/t

[Shell Beau]

19. Not sure if you are being smart or not.

There are advantages to buying a real tree.

[Orsino]

34. I objected above only to disposable real trees...

..on mainly aesthetic grounds. I approve of reusing/replanting live trees.

[XemaSab]

13. real

if it's cut from the woods, it's ecologically sound in that most little trees don't grow up to be big trees anyways. also, there's the energy involved in making a fake tree.

[Xithras]

14. Ecologically, real trees win on every level.

From a globalist environmentalist worldview, tree farms are better. Newly planted young trees consume two to three times more CO2 and release roughly double the oxygen of mature trees. Just as rapidly growing children need more sustenance, trees do as well. Couple into that the fact that tree farms typically plant 500+ trees per hectare while native forests average 200, and you can easily work out how tree farms offer a far greater contribution to the global environment than a natural forest.

From a local environmentalist worldview, it's easy to argue that tree farms are sterile and that cutting them damages the local environment, but that reasoning is also flawed. Christmas tree farms are planted as crops, and are rarely grown on mountainsides or in normal forests. More often, they are planted on agricultural flatland in lieu of other crops. When a Christmas tree farm closes down, it doesn't become virgin forest, but is usually cleared to make way for corn, pasture, or some other agricultural use. These other agricultural uses are typically far more destructive than tree farming to the local environment.

Economically, real trees also help to employ thousands of Americans across the country, contributing to the economy and helping to keep people out of poverty.

Fake trees, on the other hand, lose on every level. They're made of oil, packaged in cardboard made from dead trees anyway, wrapped in more oil-based plastic, shipped halfway around the world in oil burning vessels, and are typically good for less than 10 uses before needing replacement (very few Americans keep fake trees longer than 10-15 years, and most replace them every 10 or so). Once discarded, these fake trees sit in our landfills for tens of thousands of years leaching poisons into the ground as the plastics slowly break down. And what's the benefit? A company in China will make a few bucks profit.

I've never understood why people buy fake trees and use the ENVIRONMENT as their justification. If you don't like the needles, fine. If you don't like the cost of real ones, fine. Just admit that you're cheap and hate vacuuming and be done with it ;)

[wtmusic]

15. So your telling me my wife wins?

I certainly didn't want to hear that...;-)

Very persuasive. I like real trees better anyway. Next year, it's real. :thumbsup:

[Pithlet]

17. Real ones can easily become a fire hazard.

I'll never have a real tree for that reason. I know that isn't an ecological consideration, but that's the main reason I stay away from real ones. I also fall on the side of fake ones make more sense ecologically, too.

[Xithras]

20. Especially mine...which is STILL in my living room ;)

I really gotta haul that thing outside tonight. So many of the needles have fallen off that it's starting to look a bit pathetic. I put it up a month ago and haven't even watered it in two weeks!

As for the ecological argument, reread my first post and tell me exactly where I'm wrong. Fake trees make as much ecological sense as the argument that SUV's are environmentally friendly because they carry more people/stuff and require fewer trips. You COULD make the argument, but it really doesn't make any sense when you think it through. :P

[kick-ass-bob]

21. it's quite easy to make sure it doesn't.

Before buying a tree, brush the limbs to see if needles fall off - if a bunch fall off, don't get it.

Have the people cut a slice off the bottom (so it will draw water for longer)

Keep it watered every day, and don't leave the house with the lights on.

You can easily get a full month out of a tree if you do the above.

[Pithlet]

23. Before I had kids, I went with real trees.

But only fresh cut. Unless you go to a farm and cut one down, you might not know how long a tree has been sitting in a lot somewhere, and you can't always tell by the needles if a tree is dry. Even with those precautions, if the tree is already dry you could be in trouble. If a Christmas tree were a necessary item, it would be different, but I can't justify risking my family over something ornamental. Of course, I don't even light candles anymore with kids, so I'm pretty cautious, probably more than a lot of people.

[kick-ass-bob]

25. I guess I don't have that problem.

As I know the trees come from 3 hours drive away, and I have gotten to know the people we buy from.

[Pithlet]

27. I lived right down the road from a christmas tree farm for awhile.

It always put me in the Christmas mood seeing the trees going by on the tops of cars :) And it was nice being so close to the source.

[Left Is Write]

22. Cheap?

Our large artifical tree cost more than the real ones - we could buy a real one every year for seven years for what that one cost.

And the small one (4½ feet)? I've had that since my first Christmas in my first apartment. In 1985. We're still using it. I didn't know I was supposed to replace it after ten years. :P

Of course, I've never used the environment as justification for having artificial Christmas trees. In fact, I was wholly unaware that I needed justification.

[Pithlet]

26. You can find cheaper ones, but they generally don't last very long.

We had an artificial tree growing up that lasted over 20 years, but I don't think they make things like they used to. The good ones are expensive.

[Momgonepostal]

31. We have one that we've used for 4 or so years

It's about 4 feet tall, has lights and cost $19.99. It's still going strong and should last many more Christmases.

We didn't make our decision based on environmental reasons but more on Mom hates to vacuum up all those dumb needles for the next 6 months reasons.

[Pithlet]

33. I hate the needles, too.

That's a good enough reason for me, too :)

[Shell Beau]

28. You don't!

:7

I don't think any of us do. I think there are andvantages and disadvantages to both! Go with what you prefer! I love real ones myself! :)

[LynneSin]

29. See if you celebrated Festivus you wouldn't have this problem

[Shell Beau]

30. Festivus for the rest of us!

:7

[LynneSin]

35. Did you get that donation card I sent you

I sent a donation to the Human Fund in your name



If you're interested in contributing to this great charity just send me a PM and I'll give you the address of where to send the check :P

[wtmusic]

32. I was going to convert to Judaism

but all the hydrocarbons from that menorah...