How do you tell your mate you know they arent in love w/you??

[Guava Jelly]

For one thing I am not supposed to know.
but being in love and sneaky and having access to various spy programs.
have found out what i shouldn't know.
She loves another guy..(who isn't interested in her.)
I know it's wrong to invade your mates privacy.
But i can't help it I want to trust her but i cant.


suspicious minds by elvis

We’re caught in a trap
I can’t walk out
Because I love you too much baby

Why can’t you see
What you’re doing to me
When you don’t believe a word I say?

We can’t go on together
With suspicious minds
And we can’t build our dreams
On suspicious minds

So, if an old friend I know
Drops by to say hello
Would I still see suspicion in your eyes?

Here we go again
Asking where I’ve been
You can’t see these tears are real
I’m crying

We can’t go on together
With suspicious minds
And be can’t build our dreams
On suspicious minds

Oh let our love survive
Or dry the tears from your eyes
Let’s don’t let a good thing die

When honey, you know
I’ve never lied to you
Mmm yeah, yeah

[JVS]

1. By becoming an extremely selfish lover

[Guava Jelly]

3. I want her to love me

but one thing i have found out is love cant be forced..It comes free or it doesnt come at all.

[JVS]

5. Forget about that. Just try to get as much as you can before the ship...

sinks. It is definitely time to bring up unfulfulled fantasies.

[Guava Jelly]

6. been on this ship for 17 years

and am the only guy she has ever slept with

[Whoa_Nelly]

2. Be honest

with your spouse

[redqueen]

4. Yup. n/t

[Guava Jelly]

8. honest hugh

Honesty wont work when your mate lies directly to your face

[Whoa_Nelly]

9. Even after you're honest about how you know?

:shrug:

[Guava Jelly]

10. at that point trurh takes a back stage to anger

guess i just suck at this.

[Whoa_Nelly]

11. Your anger or hers?

Maybe write it all out in a letter, leave it where she will see it and read it, and make sure you're gone for a while during that.

And if you're trying to avoid anger...don't know what to say except it's a big deal and there are bound to be not nice words 'cause sounds like you both are not happy right now. :hug: for you...

[rug]

7. Leave a note in her journal.

[skygazer]

12. You've been together for 17 years?

And you're the only guy she's slept with? And now you've found out that she's in love with a guy who's not interested in her?

Shit, I don't know who to feel more sorry for.

You've painted yourself into a bit of a corner here. She's been lying to you but by sneaking around and spying, you've behaved dishonestly too. So you're both guilty of something which won't make the conversation that is bound to ensue at some point very pleasant.

My take on it? Perhaps she's not so much "in love" with this guy as she is curious about what she may have missed (or thinks she may have missed). Probably most of the people she knows have been with other guys at some point or another and it's not uncommon for someone who has not experienced that to wonder about it.

How do you tell her? Maybe you don't. Maybe you ask. Lovingly. Ask her if she ever regrets not having experienced other relationships. Ask her if she sometimes wonders what life would be like with someone else.

How does she behave towards you? Coolly? Lovingly? You know, women have midlife crises too. Maybe the two of you need a holiday together, sort of a reminder why you're together in the first place.

Just some thoughts. :hug:

[Guava Jelly]

13. you hit the nail on the head

the thing is she is curious
and i dont believe it will stop.
i think it will get worse

[tjdee]

24. Because she is thinking about one guy?

I agree with the poster you replied to.
I don't know that you should automatically assume there will be more men.

[sendero]

27. If she's ..

.... 38 or 39 years old, she's as good as gone. :(

[pitohui]

43. oh for the love of--!

will you let the woman have her damn fantasies already!

keerist

of course she won't stop having fantasies, any more than you will

that is just silly, you are expecting too much of the woman, you have already expected her to never, ever have sex w. another man her entire life

and now you want to be the thought police too?

she has been faithful for 17 years and it isn't good enough because she has fantasies?

think about what you are destroying here w. your suspicions

you have fantasies, you have imaginings, you just didn't write them down so you're better than she is?

forget this whole thing, you are stressing yourself and destroying yourself over NOTHING

[satireV]

14. How would you want HER to respond if the situation was reversed?

Answer that question honestly and you will know how to respond to her.

[Guava Jelly]

15. I would like her to be honest and be in love again

or leave me and find out if that makes her happy.
shit i dunno.
i been in this rut since mid sept.
and its not getting any better

[satireV]

18. I understand.. how about this...

I think something may be missing in her life. At least that would be why I would have some kind of emotional attachment to someone other than my spouse.

So, your goal is to find out what she is missing, without revealing how you found out about it. That is difficult but you you can do it.

At that point, you can decide if it is something you can help with or not.

If it is something you think you can help with, you can ask someone to help, or try it yourself.

If you do solve the issue though, you may have to hold the secret inside for the rest of your life. That's for her AND your benefit.

[bleedingheart]

16. Why is she seeking love elsewhere? Where is your romance?

It takes two to tango...in marriage sometimes it is easy to get lazy. So lazy that you forget to court your spouse...you forget to make things special.

So...perhaps the two of you got into a rut....perhaps you both kind of walked off the path...

IF...(and this is a big IF)...you truly love her...don't let her know anything. Do something wildly romantic for her...and then keep it up...(hell use a calendar and write down stuff...so you won't forget to do it...) and then see how she responds ...if she is equally romantic back...then perhaps you never lost her...perhaps she was just looking for what was missing in your relationship.

I hope all works out...but I would really suggest you stop spying....that could ruin everything for both of you...

as for the advice I have provided...it has worked in my marriage...

[Guava Jelly]

17. I have done all that

and she still is in love or lust with this guy.
I cant compete with new.

[bleedingheart]

19. perhaps it is time you confront her...

I would really recommend not telling her about the spying part because if there is a chance things will work out that will make her not trust you as much as you may not trust her...

However that brings up the most important part...Trust...if you don't trust one another...that really makes it all that much harder.

If you have trouble talking to her...how about going to a marriage counselor to get some help for both of you???

[satireV]

20. The other person can't compete with trust and experience..

Just my way of saying.... it isn't a competition.. It is a cooperative.

[sendero]

28. You know...

... when a guy gets sex outside his marriage, he's a bastard, a jerk, a sorry son of a bitch. But when a woman does it, well, the guy must not have given her what she wants.

If I've heard this crap once I've heard it 100 times. When a marriage loses it's spark, it is generally both partners who have failed IMHO.

[bleedingheart]

44. I didn't mean to imply it was all his fault....

it does go both ways but sadly, someone in the relationship has to capitulate...either the man or the woman...one of them has to start up the spark and see if it is reciprocated....if it isn't reciprocated and marriage counseling doesn't work...then hell perhaps they are headed towards a split.

It takes more effort than most people realize to remain happily married.

You have implied a lot from my thread that I did not intend.

[sendero]

55. "implied a lot"..

... I apologize for my outburst, your comments hit a nerve with me and certainly that is not your fault.

There are a lot of folks who like to get on their high horse about sexism, but believe me it cuts both ways and women have been very slow to acknowledge that they are not the "morally superior" beings they claim to be.

This guy's plight is a perfect example. So, she's running around behind his back. Hey, if she's unhappy in the marriage, she should get out, not find sugar daddy two first. But in my experience, that is exactly what most women do.

One more comment and I'll dump this thread. Everyone is always saying "marriage is a lot of work, it's hard, it takes constant nurturing". Well, maybe. My marriage doesn't, it is a joy to both of us 99% of the time - and it comes without effort because we see most things the same way, have similar sexual needs and respect each other. The key to having a great marriage is simple - find the right partner and it will be easy. I worked very hard to make my previous marriage work. It failed anyway. You cannot force something that was not meant to be. Love is not a negotiation.

[LostinVA]

47. I agree with you -- and I'm a woman

Some people "cheat" because it's fun, thrilling, etc... and are really fucking over their spouses emotionally. But, most people I know who have done this have a true failed marriage, but one person refuses to admit it. Both have "caused" it, although I think no blame should be place... it's hard enough when you realize it's over. It's way too easy for people (even on DU) to point the finger when they've never been there. Life is so complicated.

[Gold Metal Flake]

21. Respectfully...

You are trying to get from point A to point W in one step.

First, you must level with her. Yes, there will be a gale-force wind of lies yet to come. Try to work at the truth, to get the truth from her. When you both stand naked before each other, only then can you say that you are at point A. Takes a while to get to that place of initial honesty again, and you may not make it, or, having made it, you may not be a couple anymore.

Do try to not let anger rule.

Once (if) all the lies have fallen away, and there is honesty, then you guys will have to figure out if there can be a new beginning. This part can take some time. In fact, it may never come.

There may need to be some time apart.

If there is a reconciliation, you will have to live with broken trust, and that's a heavy load to carry.

I can't tell how to do this. It's hard shit. But you have to start the process, sooner or later.

My best wishes for the both of you.

:hug:

[Texasgal]

22. I've been in "love" while married..

Worse thing that ever happened to me. I couldn't face up to the fact that I didn't want my marriage to continue, he couldn't face the fact that I wanted to leave.

It was wrong, and now I wish we had communicated better. It's over now, but we are still good friends.

The "love of my life" the one I really thought was the cats meow left me hanging in the dust.

Communication is key, trust me.... If I would have done that,I think I could have saved my relationship with my best friend.

Good luck to you!

:hug:

[tjdee]

23. She'll get over it and see how great you are? I don't know that you should

tell.

I don't know about these sort of things, but if she hasn't brought it up, perhaps she's just trying to nurse her pain, and will get over it--and realize that what she has is pretty dang good.

I think people with secrets never want to tell the person because of the person. I think they will bust if they don't say something (which is kind of the curse of the secret). If you tell her that you snooped on her, she is not going to like it, and I'd bet it would turn into a "you don't trust me and you violated my privacy" issue as well as a "you don't love me" issue. And that's not really fair to you, is it?

Plus, is it possible you misinterpreted what you saw?

[elehhhhna]

25. My theory:

We fall in & out of love in our lives -- each of us, many times. You can stick it out with one person or trade partners. I hope she knows that infatuation isn't "love". Interesting that she's gotten a crush on someone who's evidently quite unavailable...

[MichiganVote]

52. Very well put and exactly right.

[Guava Jelly]

26. thank you fort all whom have given thier 2 cents

man i hate drama.
and yes lies will come and go.
and i am no prince for snooping.
but being in love makes you do stupid things

[khashka]

29. You're making a huge fucking mistake!

Just because she's interested in another guy, doesn't mean she feels any different about you. I know a lot of people having affairs - almost all say they love their spouse as much or more than before.

You really wanna wreck a long term relationship over something as petty as jealousy?

So she likes the guy. Maybe she even fucked him. So what? It's you she comes home to.

Spying on her is not only wrong it's unforgivable. You did a bad thing and now you are suffering for it. Don't ask questions you don't want the answers to.

If you really can't live with the knowledge... ask her about it. But be willing to listen to her side of the story. You do not own her body and you do not own her feelings. Nor she yours. Keep that in mind.

Sheesh, I will never understand monogamy.....

Khash.

[Thtwudbeme]

30. Mother of God. I hope to hell you are about 19, and not planning

on becoming a marriage counselor.

[khashka]

32. I was married

I have a grown daughter. My ex wife and I are still friends, the closest of friends and still lovers.

I'm a fucking therapist. Or was until disability started to make it too difficult. I was a sex counselor, a relationship counselor.

And I'm 39.

I stand by everything I said. He didn't say she was freezing him out. He said he spied on her and found out something he didn't want to know. Too fucking bad. But I also said that if this info is hurting him he needs to talk to her and listen to her.

What the fuck is wrong with that advice?

What would you advise? Huh? That he kick the bitch to the curb and file for divorce? Yeah the best course for everyone. You really think he wants to lose the woman he loves and end a 17 year relationship that made him happy? Maybe I was a bit glib but all I really said was " Back off, it's not about you, things can still work out" and if hurts too much to back off then talk to her. Realy bad advice. Obviously I'm an asshole. Now, fuck off.

Khash.

[Thtwudbeme]

34. You know what? I shouldn't have answered your post

My values are apparently so different than yours that we have no middle ground.

btw--spying IS bad---I agree with that part. It's the rest of your answer that I think is garbage. This guy obviously cares about the monogamy that you so easily put down...some people can't handle (or don't want to handle it) fucking their ex's when it's convienient for both of them.

[khashka]

38. We do disagree on values

But do you truly believe that nothing matters anymore if one partner strays and that all you have built together is now junk?

That's not values. That's jealousy. And it ain't pretty and it destroys lives. Sorry you can't see that.

That bit about fucking your ex's. Well fuck you! You don't have even the first clue about my relationship with my ex wife. And your snide little comment only proves what an asshole you are. Yeah, we still have sex because we love each other, not because it's convenient.

Khash.

[Mobius]

40. Us evil pagans

that fuck everything under the sun. *eyeroll*
I'm with you 100%! :hug:

*gives you the secret invisible pagan sign*
hey, wanna fuck? lolololol

[mongo]

59. Go get 'em Khash

IT seems like some people just can't stand reading anything that doesn't uphold the Xtain status quo.

[pitohui]

45. khash's advice is actually correct

it just isn't tactfully phrased

but it's correct

snooping brings its own punishment, all women have fantasies, now the OP knows his wife is a real woman w. fantasies like the rest of us, he can choose to destroy his marriage over it or he can be a man and shut the fuck up and deal

and, no, i'm not a marriage counselor nor do i play one on teevee but i've been w. my hubby for over 20 years thru good and bad so maybe i know a tiny little something, you cannot have a happy long-term relationship if you are bitter and controlling over your partner's very thoughts and fantasies, fantasies are just not something that can be controlled

[khashka]

54. Thanks pitohui

I rarely phrase anything tactfully.

But I think anyone in a long term relationship realizes they or their partner will be attracted to some else at some point. It's a given.

But he only has two choices - forgive her or confront her. I opt for forgive and forget. After all, nothing happened. But if it's necessary confront her like a reasonable adult, not a panicked child.

Now, I will say this - I can forgive any sexual indiscretion. But an emotional commitment makes me worried. Which is what the OP implies.

But obviously he loves her and wants this to work. My advice was simply intended to facilitate that.

Khash.

[Mobius]

39. What?

I agree. Monogamy is an outdated unrealistic concept. You have one soul mate, that is the person you come home to. However, both parties have to be polyamorous for this to work. Or at least be aware of the polyamorous nature of the other. Also, the polyamorous person should not say they are monogamous, when they are not, and lead the other person on.
I would like to say, this is not what the OP signed up for, but it is quite possible probable even, that she still loves him. If she realized these other feelings she should have to him of her polyamorous tendencies and requested an open relationship.
If this was just an online thing, you need to relax. Have you ever looked at porn on the internet? I mean come on, I'll bet you have even if you wont admit it. Thats cool, I'm just saying A LOT of people get some form of sexual gratification outside their relationship from the internet.

[LostinVA]

49. Yes, but not if one partner believes in monogamy and thinks the other one

Fantasies aren't the same as having feelings for someone. Someone up thread who dismissed it as "infatuation" isn't necessarily correct. That's not all it may be. I think you should talk to her about it, but I wouldn't mention the snooping, because that will start it off sooooo bad. Just ask her to be honest, tell her you can tell things are different.

Things might be okay, might mend, or they might be irreparable. If it is indeed the latter, you both need to be adult and caring about it, and salvage a friendship. It's difficult, but doable. I'm very good friends with an ex who I was in a long-term (10 years) relationship with. She's my best friend. There are different kinds of love, and all are great. Remember that.

Good luck, man.

[Amaya]

31. Totally agree!

good post :thumbsup:

[Mobius]

41. well,

the last thing a therapist is going to tell you, is to chuck everything for some internet romance that never resulted in physical contact. They would be quite a shitty therapist. The idea is to save the relationship, not kill it. Glad we are not such a minority , us polys...

[SoCalDem]

33. If you can afford it, make her want YOU..

Sit her down and tell her that "things aren't so good" and YOU want some time away.. You said the guy did not want her?..Let HER be the one to be alone without YOU..

If you can crash at a friend's place for a few weeks/months, she might just see what she stood to lose and start to woo you back. If she does not, then perhaps you took the first step on an inevitable journey..

What do you have to lose at this point?.. This way you don;t have to tell her you read her journal/e-mails/whatever..and if you are the one who initiates the action, you have the power of the situation and she is forced to rethink her feelings..

Who knows? you both might be better apart or maybe it's what you both need for a while to rejuvenate your relationship..

Are there kids?.. If so, marriage counseling would be the way to go then..

[Thtwudbeme]

36. Shit. You play hardball!

I just told Michael I would have to slap him around before the talk to work out some of my anger problems, should this happen to us.

[SoCalDem]

37. Not hardball, just 36 years of being married

Lots of ups & downs..Thankfully, no infidelities..but lots of disappointments & sorrows along the way.. You just have to tackle stuff head on :)

[Magrittes Pipe]

35. Just wait till she reads your DU posts.

[pitohui]

42. no good could possibly come of such a conversation

just pretend you never snooped, put it out of your mind, what do you stand to gain by having "you don't love me, not, do too, do not" conversation at your age?

put your sneakiness to good work and look for someone who does love you on the side

or else don't and just grow up and get over it

her crush prob. isn't real anyway!

is this high school?

[Guava Jelly]

48. actually to her it feels like a highschool locker crush

and you are probably right.
I don't want to beat her up over this ..she is a good caring person who just fell in love witha fantasy.
My problem is ..I want to be that fantasy

[Guava Jelly]

46. Has anyone been in the same situation here and got over it??

just curious ifit gets better

[MichiganVote]

50. Get over having snooped and learned that you're not a God? or...

Get over the fact that your wife is another mere mortal? Get over learning that maybe you have a little house cleaning of your own to do? Get over feeling that freezing moment of fear that your marriage is in jeopardy and probably has been for a long time and you haven't been aware of it?

Look, there is something she believes this guy has that you haven't. Your job is to think about whether you can offer a partner what she seeks. Can you change some? Can you accept the fact that she has changed some? Have you even looked at the woman as something other than your spouse in the last five years?

These are critical questions to ask yourself and they are not for the faint of heart. Neither is marriage. You thought it would be a fairytale? Wrong.

You snooped and now you're hurt. You had to know and now you do. If you hadn't suspected you weren't the object of her affection, you wouldn't have gone looking in the first place.

You want your marriage? Earn it the old fashioned way, listen to her. The way to a woman's heart is to listen to her as though she were/is the most fascinating person you've ever met. You may have to fake it some till you make it but that is key and it will always be the key to marriage with a...woman.

[pitohui]

51. has anyone else's spouse had fantasies abt someone else?

everybody's spouse has had fantasies abt someone else, some people are just better abt not thinking abt it than other people

you just can't stress yrself abt that stuff, dude

you want to be the one who makes it magic for her, then the way NOT to make it magic is to be the sweaty jealous dweeb trying to do thought control

be cool, act like you don't know don't care

and if there is some kinky little thing that pushes her buttons do that kinky little thing ever once in awhile OUT OF THE BLUE

that's what renews the fantasies

[politicat]

53. There's a difference between being in love and love and infatuation....

Being "in love" or infatuated is often transient, hormonally based and not very rational. Love - long term, married or other - is something very different, and harder to describe.

As it happens, I've been the partner with a mate in love with someone else; I've also been in love with someone not my partner. In both cases, it hurts, but reason and patience are more useful in maintaining a relationship than hormones, jealousy and anger.

Do you really want to throw away everything you've build together? Sure, right now you're hurt, so you're reacting from anger and fear. And right now, she's reacting out of hormones and impulse - again, not a good place to be making decisions from.

You need counseling, but in the meantime, I can recommend a book that helped me cope with my partners: Pepper Schwartz' Everything You Know About Love and Sex is Wrong.

[Onlooker]

56. Whoa! You are way off base

You may have invaded her fantasy world, not a real world that she really wants to be in. Whether or not that is the case, you should do some of your own soul-searching. What kind of person spies on his own wife? If your lines of communication are that weak, there is something really wrong. You should come clean, apologize, and talk things out, but do it in conjunction with a marraige counselor. You got what you deserved for spying on her, but if the two of you learn to be honest, it will all work out in the best way. Honesty is painfully crucial to any relationship.

[Frank Cannon]

57. "Put the gun down" is a good way.

It drops a subtle hint that you may know about their lack of feeling for you.

[Evergreen Emerald]

58. Be real and get in counseling.

Tell her the truth
Tell her what you feel
Tell her what you want
Ask her to go to counseling with you to attempt to salvage the relationship.

Be real.