I'm moving to Belleville, IL in just a few days

[darkstar]

and thought I'd take the lounge temperature on the town, get some inside info on places to eat and things to do, find out if there are any DUers nearby (obviously, St. Louis will have its share), etc.

(Oh and maybe have a pity party on this poor sap whose back is already hurting from packing and who hasn't experienced a real winter in over ten years now.)

Hope to be back on DU towards the end of January.

As you were....

[AngryAmish]

1. Could be the most racist town in Illinois

And that is saying a lot. Good luck.

[darkstar]

2. What a drag. Can you explain further?

What makes it so particularly bad in that apspect? Are there efforts to make things better?

Thanks in advance and for the good luck wishes....

[AngryAmish]

6. Belleville police had a policy of stopping every black motorist in town

Especially on side streets. Belleville folks I knew in college would brag about this. More racist than folks from Mt. Greenwood or Calumet City, which is saying a lot.

It is near East St. Louis and ESL is mostly black. ESL is a complete mess (they lost their City Hall in a lawsuit).

Anyway, they have had a de facto apartheid system for a long time.

I have not been by there for a long time (15 years). Let me know if it has changed.

[fudge stripe cookays]

9. I'm proof of this.

My mother and most of her family were all born in Belleville.

It's a very German Catholic town. Lots of 10 syllable long German names in the cemeteries (like ours).

Even up until the 1920s or so, it was a very "N-word don't let the sun set on you here" kind of place. Mom told me they had a lynching there years ago. I don't remember when.

My mother and her brother tried to raise me like that-- using the N word, and "spic" and "wetback" and all the other nastiness that comes along with being racist assholes. My uncle makes Archie Bunker look progressive. When I was 10, I was not allowed to watch "Roots." Mom didn't think I needed to see it. She also sent me to Catholic school so I wouldn't be bused.

I'm so glad I went to college away from home. I started realizing something was wrong with it. And after I saw "Mississippi Burning", I really got MAD. I told her if she ever said the N word in front of me again, I'd walk out of the room. So I started doing that whenever she did-- sort of a "Pavlov's Dog" thing so she'd at least quit using the word. It worked, thank God.

She's become a Democrat vote-wise, but some of her superior nastiness shows through from time to time.

Belleville has some pretty areas nearby, but the whole area grossed me out when I was there. I'd never seen so many ugly men with mullets and handlebar moustaches in one place in my life!

Good luck!
fsc

[fishwax]

22. Congrats

that's a tough background to emerge from;), and it's cool that you've managed to at least partially retrain your mother :toast:

[fudge stripe cookays]

36. Thanks fish.

It can be done.

I'd say our friend needs some good vibes going to that area.

fsc

[Cats Against Frist]

3. I think that distinction goes to Pekin, IL

But Belleville is just down the street from where I grew up, near Highland, IL and Pocahontas, IL -- where they LITERALLY still run black people out of town.

[darkstar]

5. No, no, no, this is awful

to hear. I'm moving from Lafayette, LA which, although it still has its share of problems, is steeped in multi-racial tradition.

I'm starting to really bum out now. Taking a spring term teaching gig that opened at the college there.

While I *truly* appreciate you all being up front about this, it is destroying my will power.

Anything good to report. Are there any good locally owned eateries? Please? Soemthing small to hang on to?

[HuskerDU]

7. Belleville was once home to the fantastic band Uncle Tupelo.

That's about all I can think of about the town.

[fudge stripe cookays]

25. I have a funny story about that.

Back when "No Depression" came out, my friend was working for WAterloo Records in Austin, and was always the one to take their ticket money down to Liberty Lunch for the shows they sold tickets for. I was always her "+1" for shows there, and caught some amazing shows back in the day that way (Nirvana, Soul Asylum, Living Colour, etc)

My mom and I had just gotten back from a trip to Belleville for my great aunt and uncle's 50th Wedding Anniversary (in the basement of "the Satellite Bowl!"), and she and I were going to go see Uncle Tupelo. I didn't know much about them, but she told me they were great, so I trusted her.

When she answered the door, she had on an Uncle Tupelo shirt designed like a Jaegermeister logo, with the "Belleville, Illinois" worked into the design.

"Are they from Belleville?" I asked. "Yeah!" she said. I told her my mom was from there (see my post above), and we'd just gotten back. She thought that was the funniest thing she'd ever heard. She'd been hanging with the guys since they'd gotten into town, so knew them pretty well by this point.

After the show, she introduced us all, and said, "Her mom's from Belleville! She just got back!" they were skeptical until I told them we'd stayed in the Cinderella Motel that my aunt had booked for us :puke:. They laughed their asses off. And when I told them the celebration had been in the basement of the Satellite Bowl, we had some great laughs, hanging out and talking shop about Belleville, and being out on the road. They were super nice.

fsc

[HuskerDU]

30. I saw 'em at Gabes in Iowa City early in '92. Great band.

Wilco has veered too far into slick pop music for my taste. I really do need to check out Son Volt though.

[enigmatic]

34. I was just about to post this

My favorite band of all-time, and I was luvky enough to have seen them live 3 times while they were around..

[HuskerDU]

42. Yeah, they were the shit back in the day.

And would still make any top 10 fav bands list for me. We really need to talk tunes sometime enigmatic!

[LSdemocrat]

11. Consider living in St. Louis and commuting

St. Louis is much more progressive with plenty of good ethnic restaurants and local culture. Traffic is not an issue in the St. Louis area, especially compared to most metro areas, and you could easily commute to and from Belleville.

Southern Illinois just isn't a nice place to live. In case you didn't realize it, the Chicago metro area alone makes Illinois a blue state.

[fishwax]

23. champaign urbana helps

urbana particularly :) ... not that we bring a lot of numbers to the table, population wise, but the force is strong :)

[Cats Against Frist]

21. I'm sorry, no can do, about the sprit-lifting thing

The only other thing that I know about Belleville is that the MEANEST fucking orthodontist, this side of the Mississippi operates out of there. He did my braces. He humiliated most of the clientelle, and then took to patting me on the butt, when I turned into a teen-ager. I still have problems forgiving my mother for subjecting me to that.

[Blue-Jay]

26. Nah. The most racist town is Pekin, IL.

Belleville is a close second, though.

EDIT: Whoops. I see that someone already pointed that out. Up until the late 70s, Pekin High School's mascot was the Pekin Chinks. No lie! The mascot was a caricature of a Chinese dude that was patently offensive. They've since changed their mascot to the "dragons". The name of the entire town is based upon the fact that they're on the same latitude as Peking (Beijing) China, hence the "Chinks" mascot. The place is also known around the area, as a hotbed of white-supremacy groups.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I will miss you!

Hurry back, OK? Sheesh.....you just start to get to know someone.......

And THEN they up and disappear......:cry:

:loveya: :hug:

[darkstar]

8. Why thanks

I won't be gone too long, but explains my lack of posting in last 3-4 days (suddenly lots to take care of). I'd just quit my job in early December, so I was around here a lot more than in the previous months, esp. post-Katrina.

What a drag (see upthread). In addition, my wife is staying behind to finish out her teaching year, to oversee us getting a new roof (if ever in post-storm reality of delayed checks and backed up contractors), and to *then* sell the house.

When I'm up there alone and catless and freezing and wondering where all the Obama (sp?) voters are, I'll make sure to count on you, dear Peggy, and all my other DU friends.

:hi: :hug:

[China_cat]

14. Look for any place being DJ'd

by Mad Man Mike and tell him you know his 'original' mother. You'll like him and he'll help you find the good spots.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

16. You can count on me, my dear darkstar!

I will for sure be here.....Esp. now that I see just where your adventures will take you....

I got your back, my dear.......:loveya: :hug: :pals:

[Burma Jones]

10. Belleville was a big joke at my College (Knox)

It has the reputation of being a haven for really ignorant rednecks. I've been through there and I would agree that it is one of the lousiest places in Illinois.

That having been said, you certainly do not have to buy in to the town ethos and there's plenty to do close by so just think of it as a place you sleep....

[EstimatedProphet]

12. My grandparents used to live there

I know the town well. The biggest advantage is that it is close to St. Louis so you can get away. Racism is very strong and open. I have heard people openly make racist statements there; it's assumed if you're white you're a racist too, and people don't even try to hide it. The stories that I heard is that it was very pro-Germany during WWII.

[China_cat]

13. Gee, I can't help much there

even though my son and his family live in O'Fallon.

[EstimatedProphet]

15. And one other thing:

As proof that the locals have a poor sense of humor-the high school sports team is named the Maroons. They don't see any joke in that at all.

[kevsand]

35. You are misinformed.

There are two public high schools in Belleville.

The older, dumber, boring, losing, generally uninspired school is Belleville West. On paper, they are the Maroons, but they are usually called the Morons.

The newer, smarter, interesting, winning, incredibly exciting school is Belleville East. They are the Lancers.

Guess which one I went to...

[EstimatedProphet]

38. OK

I base that on my mother's yearbooks. At the time (1950's) I guess there was only one high school in town, and they were the Maroons. I tried to explain to my mother and grandmother that maroon is an insult. My mother got pissed off.

Now that you mention it, I do remember hearing about the Lancers when I was there. Forgot about that...

[kevsand]

40. Belleville East opened in the mid-sixties.

For a while, we shared the science labs and part of the campus with the junior college, which was pretty cool for high school.

[GOPisEvil]

17. I have lots of family there.

You have my sympathies. ;)

I lived in O'Fallon for a couple of years. It used to be a nice little town, but it's been "Generica'ed".

Why are you going to Belleville? Scott AFB?

[darkstar]

18. Last minute teaching gig

at SWIC. Please tell me there is a small island of progressive-mindedness at/near the campus.

On a positive note, do you ever vist? Maybe let the old darkstar buy you so dinner.

[GOPisEvil]

19. I'm not particularly close with my extended family.

My parents live here in Texas, and we're close. They visit from time to time. I haven't been there since '98.

I really don't know much about the place as I don't live there. But, St. Louis isn't far, and there are progressives there. As for my family, they're pretty solidly Democratic, but fairly racist. Southern IL is a lot like the old south in many ways. A lot of people that settled there came via Kentucky like my dad's family did.

[EstimatedProphet]

31. Interesting. I went there for a semester

It's more enlightened than town, but less than a campus. At the time (1982) it seemed mostly like a high school with advanced courses.

[darkstar]

20. Thanks to all who posted

even though I've had anxiety attack every time I came back to check the thread :(

I will look up the DJ, China Cat.

And EP, are your grandparents still alive? Do you ever get back on occasion?

Thanks again for being forthright about what I'm getting into. I'm just going to have to plug into folks who are trying to make it better and/or do it on my own.

Big love, all. Send me some positive vibes if you can spare the energy. I'll do my best to spread 'em around upion my arrival.

darkstar

[EstimatedProphet]

32. No, they've passed on

I haven't been back there since the late 80's, so things may be drastically different. So, take my words with a grain of salt-they may not be true anymore.

[GalleryGod]

24. The Birthplace of Jimmy Connors

All I got :shrug:

[davsand]

27. My in-laws are in that area we are there sometimes to visit.

Hubby (Kevsand) grew up down there and went to Belleville East. I'll see if I can lure him to the Lounge to give you some insights from one who grew up there and has not lost all touch...

I know the town has a history but I have also been to enough local parties to offer some hope to you that not everyone down there is a racist bastard.

We need to meet and have coffee (or cocktails!) sometime when we are down there on a visit!



Laura

[darkstar]

28. Thanks for some good news, davsand !

Glad to know there are pockets of like-minded folks at least. I really appreciate you taking the time to write me a positive note. And yeah it would be great if you two came through to visit. I need to meet more DUers in real life. Ms. darkstar should be up there by the summertime (I hope).

And if Kevsand can be motivated and is so inclined, have him PM me w/ any salient details OK?

Thanks again !

:toast: (As in cocktails, fer sure....)

[davsand]

29. You DO realize that Dems control that County?

They have for a long time. You won't have to look too far to find people that voted for Obama. He did very well there in St Clair County, from what I remember. That Dem party machine down there is almost as strong as the one up in Cook (Chicago).

Now, when I say Democrats, I am talking about "Labor type" Dems rather than the the "warm-fuzzy-tree huggers" like we have up here* in Champaign County. They are not bad people in any way, but they may be a bit more socially conservative than you usually find here at DU. They ARE, however, Democrats to the bone.

Buck up, little camper, it won't be all that bad!


Laura






*I was treated to a discussion about these differences when we visited a neighboring County, BTW. A lot of people in the state see a huge difference in the Champaign-Urbana Democrats and the rest of the state. I'll be happy to explain this phenom sometime over a beer or two.

[Rowdyboy]

33. I went to Belleville twice, once to visit friends, once for a funeral.....

I remember a very pretty, 1890's sort of town. Nice neighborhoods, clean streets and decent food, though we always ate across the river in St Louis.

[kevsand]

37. I was born in E. St. Louis, grew up in Fairview Heights, and

went to high school in Belleville. It is not the most racist town in Illinois. Just off the top of my head, Cicero and Chicago Heights both beat it hands down. There are also any number of little podunk freckles of towns on state highways and county roads scattered all over Illinois that would do Mississippi or Alabama or Georgia proud.

What Belleville is, is a large concentration of blue collar working stiffs who haven't yet figured out that Nixon was a crook, but who love this country no less than you or I. They're mostly drunk (Belleville used to be the home of the Stag Brewery) and mostly harmless, except for the fact that the police department was for many decades run by racist nazis. It finally required federal action. I have no idea what it's like now.

The county is overwhelmingly democratic (maybe more than Cook) but mainly because of the minority populations in E. St. Louis and the surrounding river valley (the American Bottoms). The suburbs up on the bluffs (of which Belleville is the largest and the county seat) are mostly white, and even the dems are more conservative.

Having said that, some of the most progressive people I know grew up in Belleville. I still have many friends in the area, and as davsand mentioned, we get down to my folks' house several times a year. There are a couple of annual parties that we try to get to. Plus, St. Louis is less than ten miles to the west, and is infinitely more manageable than say, Chicago.

We will definitely get together sometime this year. Shoot davsand or I a message once you get settled...

[GOPisEvil]

39. E. St. Louis is my dad's hometown.

It's sad to see what it's become. You can tell that it was a really nice city at one time. I'll never forget my grandfather reminding me that he lived in Washington Park, and NOT E. St. Louis. The first time I went there in the mid-70s, I thought I'd been transported to a war zone.

St. Clair County is very Democratic thanks to E. St. Louis primarily, but a lot of the blue collar white folks vote Democratic too (Unions, I suppose), although they can be fairly racially intolerant.

[kevsand]

41. My family had a bakery for something like fifty years

at the corner of 17th and St. Louis Ave. in E. St. Louis. It's a big empty lot now.

And Washington Park is now full of titty bars (I think Larry Flint owns one of them). It has quite possibly the most corrupt city government in the Metro-East, although ESL will give any town a run for its money on that score.

[GOPisEvil]

43. My grandparents lived on N. 53rd in WP.

I have an uncle that lives on that street too. At last report he was working for the city of ESL. That whole area isn't exactly a model of civic efficiency. I still remember the term of Carl Officer. Nothing like having the mayor of the city living not only in another city, but another state.

[AngryAmish]

47. Demographics of Chicago Heights has changes

No longer in the running for most racist.

Cicero - now that is a racist town. They even have city hall named after a mobster. Back in the day Merose Park was awful racist. Westchester also.


However, based on my small sample set, the folks from Belleville were the most racist. The kind of folks who would take the day off of work on the anniversary of MLK's assassination.

[kevsand]

49. It was over twenty years ago that I lived in Chicago Heights,

but at the time it reminded me a lot of E. St. Louis in the fifties and sixties. The police chief in Chicago Heights back then was the brother of the head of the local mob.

As I recall, there were three distinct populations: a growing black population on the east side; a smaller Hispanic population in the center; and the west end was mostly elderly whites of Polish descent whose property values had bottomed out so that they couldn't afford to sell and move.

What's it like now?

[Jamison]

44. I'm from the St. Louis area, but...

I live on the west side of town. I don't get over to the IL side much, but I do know of a lot of things to do in STL, so if you need some ideas of things to do if you're bored, or places to get some great food just PM me.

[LostInAnomie]

45. My sister used to live in Belleville.

She says it is pretty unremarkable.

[DanCa]

46. I live in Mchenry Il not sure where Belleville is.

[kevsand]

48. Illinois side of the Mississippi River from St. Louis.

They call the whole Illinois side the "Metro East" area.