Anyone else here come to the conclusion that they don't want to marry?

[StellaBlue]

I have recently.

Six months ago I was involuntarily liberated from a common-law type of situation, which I had been in for four years. I didn't get married to him because a)I knew, at 22-25, that I was too young; b)I wasn't sure that I 'believed' in marriage in general or felt it was right for me; and c)I always had the nagging feeling that it wasnt'. quite. right. Which of course, in the end, it wasn't. I am very glad I am single again.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anybody else has decided, at whatever age, recently or years ago, that they didn't want to marry (straight or gay). My experience has led me to the conclusion that I don't like most men (this is not meant to start a flame war - I suspect many men don't really want a 'wife' any more than I want a husband, what with all the nagging, death of libido, etc. that very often follows the blessed day), never want to tmake the mistake of compromising (or 'settling') again - even though I wasn't at first, but it just became more and more apparent as the relationship dragged on and on... I don't particularly feel that I am incomplete or need someone to promise to love me forever. I do think about aging, but you never have a guarantee that your spouse or partner won't die young, anyway. I also want to have children, and would like to have them with someone I love and who wants to be a father and that I am in a monogamous relationship with, keeping it all out in the open. I don't forsee even beginning to seriously think about this for about another five or six years, and, if it doesn't happen, I am happy to adopt some kids who desperately need a family and who would be better off with a single parent than with none.

It just seems to me that, with very few exceptions, most marriages end up being traps - emotionally, financially, spiritually, socially. If I happen to find someone I am content to spend the rest of my life with, great - but I also don't feel I need state or sacred sanction. I intend to never, ever be financially dependent on anyone ever again. I want to have my own house, my own things, my own life. And to voluntarily choose to share it with someone for the joy of it, not to merge like a corporation, to create a petty dynasty, a Machiavellian financial contract.

I am not trying to bash anyone who's happily married; this isn't about that. I am just saying that, for me, personally, it's not a contract I want to sign up to. I would like to hear the thoughts of others who share my feelings, especially older (I am only 26) DUers who purposefully and thoughtfully decided to become old spinsters and bachelors.

[Madrone]

1. most marriages end up being traps

Exactly.

:scared: :scared: :scared:

I'm 33 and feel much the same way. My best friend is 50, and she feels the same way. We often wonder if we're alone in this. Guess not!

Ironically, I'm "sorta" dating (read: sick to death of and about ready to unload) a guy that is CONVINCED he wants to marry me.

I don't get it.

[StellaBlue]

4. Unfortunately, I am attracted to men

haha

and so I, ideally, would envision a life for myself in which I have a series of male companions ('lovers' is too trivializing, 'boyfriend' too juvenile), mutually chosen, to share epochs of my life with. If I find one that I never tire of and vice versa, then I see nothing wrong with sticking with it for 20, 30, 60 years. I'm just not waiting on it or betting on it or desperately seeking that fairy tale. And I don't want to get married. I probably don't even want them to move in.

Also, I am not what would be called 'promiscous', so this, for me, would mean fairly long-term, monogamous relationships based on talking about politics and philosophy, drinking, watching football, and sex. I bet I can find a few men who are up for that. haha

But, hmm... a guy who is convinced he wants to marry you - how does that make you feel? Other than cold? :) DO you want to cut him loose because you see this as a personality defect or just because you realize that you have different goals in mind? Just curious.

[Madrone]

8. A series of male companions...

This is exactly how I think about how I'm wired -- I don't think I'm cut out for marriage. I'm more of a short term relationship kind of girl - with short term being defined as anything up to approximately 2 years and anywhere up to a few years between involvements. I don't think I can handle anyone for longer than 2 years - and they have to be exceptional to get that far with me to begin with.

As for the guy that thinks we should be married... I've had a few men want to marry me in the past, but it wasn't so...ummm....? Obsessive? (that's probably going a little too far, but it's the best word I can come up with at this time of night) ... or so inappropriate. By inappropriate I mean unwarranted, nonsensical, illogical.

How does it make me feel? Annoyed. Very annoyed. I don't want to cut him loose because I see his desire to be married as a personality defect but because he's got ISSUES. Lots and lots and lots of issues. He needs a lot of fixing, and I can't (won't, have no desire to) fix him. He's packing loads of potential - but I don't bet on unrealized potential. We don't seem to have much in common, I'm finding I want to spend less and less time with him because I am HORRIBLY bored when with him, he's just very.... base.

And the more I try to get away - the more clingy he becomes. Which of course makes me want AWAY that much more.

So yeah.... I'll go with realizing we have different goals. :D

[aclog]

39. Good thing you told me you hate marriage

or I'd propose to you right now

based on talking about politics and philosophy, drinking, watching football, and sex.

[hfojvt]

12. if you look at the statistics

men who do not marry do not fare very well.

So it is less of a trap than a blessing to most men. I cannot find my quote on all the ways married people have it better than singles, but much of that does not apply if a person has a live-in instead of being married.

[StellaBlue]

14. the only thing that really worries/annoys me

is the dual income priviledges. I will NEVER be able to buy a house in Austin, TX. Never. But I also don't want to trade my soul for the benefits of a dual income. Or be trapped by the dual income, dual working parents, huge mortgage rat race vicious circle. Which is the path I was quickly going down until recently, and which I feel fortunate to have escaped the clutches of (never end a sentence with a preposition).

[GOPisEvil]

35. That's not necessarily true.

I'm a single income person in Austin and I bought my own house. It's not palacial, but it's a house.

[StellaBlue]

51. no offense meant, but...

did you owe $43,000 in student loans at age 22?

[GOPisEvil]

52. Yikes!

OK, point taken.

I also didn't buy my house until I was 36. You never know, I never figured I'd own a house. Of course sometimes I wish I was still a renter, but that's another story.

[StellaBlue]

54. I want to buy a house

because I want to pay if ott by age 55 so I can work part-time or not at all in my middle and old age. But, with property prices what they are, and my own reluctance to get married/have a dual mortgage, and the fact that I am already 26 and have NO savings, I just don't see it happening.

[GOPisEvil]

55. Well, I see what you mean, but...

...always keep the goal in mind.

Hey, I'm 37 and don't have much savings. Maybe you can take over my mortgage. :silly:

[complain jane]

2. Good. I'm not alone either then.

My parents had a horrible marriage until he ran off with some woman he met in a bar. After verbally abusing my mother for ten years. So I don't really have "marriage" as a high priority, personally.

And I agree, many marriages end up being traps. Or, end up being a safety net - emotionally, financially, socially - and not much more. Which is fine. If you are content with that.

Whatever floats yer boat.

[StellaBlue]

5. this is my experience, too

my parents are divorced, and one of them and my step-parent are, largely, happily married. But I think it's more about comfort zones and the desperate clingy love that develops over time (well at least it did for me with my ex - like we had bought into this scheme and had to stick with, had had had to make it work even though it clearly wasn't). They also argue quite a lot and both bitch about the other when I am alone with them, blaming the other for the problems and dissatisfactions in their life. One of them told me once that the other had pressured them into marriage, too, which I thought was telling. To me, marriage is, in a practical sense, a way to try to bend someone to your will. If that makes sense. At least that's my experience of it. I can think of two people I know how claim to be happily married and have been so for many years. Two. Out of hundreds of couples I know.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

3. I've never wanted to marry.

I don't like contracts unless there's money involved.

[StellaBlue]

6. oh, but there IS

...money involved. Seems, sometimes, that that's the real point. And that marriage is more contractual (as in mutual-slave-owning) than emotional.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

9. Well, I might marry for tax purposes.

;)

[hfojvt]

7. well I am an old bachelor

but I did not have that much of a say in the decision. Who can say how it would have worked out if some things had gone differently. George Eliot wrote "If a man is to love a woman, without ever looking back on his love as folly, she must die while he is courting her." In theory, it annoys me that I do not have children, or sex, but in practice my nieces and nephews also annoy me, and so do alot of other people.

I have my own house, but I have missed out on the advantages of sharing incomes and expenses with somebody. Four years ago, I got a house big enough for an SO to move in with me, but have not had even a date in that time. And really, this house seems pretty full with my own stuff and dogs. The older I get, the more I would rather retire than take on the financial burdens of a family. I do not have a job I like, nor can I imagine that such a thing is possible. As a bachelor I can partially retire in less than two years. If I become a father or, much worse yet, a step-father, I will have to work full time for another 25 years or something. A fate worse than life.

[StellaBlue]

11. I fully share your feeling on work, retirement, etc.

It's all a trade-off. As for me, I am not particularly worried about not having a husband, though. Even though I am an only child. Maybe I will get to be godparent to some poor child.

[aclog]

41. The rest I agree with you on

but there is no reason you can't go get some NSA cooch

[hfojvt]

50. You got that backwards

It is the NSA that goes and gets you, if you step out of line or say something like Osama, Hezbollah, Saddam, jihad :scared: :hide:

Getting "cooch" (as you say) is rather like swimming the English channel, or climbing Mount Everest to me. I understand that it is humanly possible, and that lots of people can and have done it, but it seems to be beyond my capabilities.

[aclog]

59. Thats a reaaaaaaaalllly bad take on NSA :D

[REP]

10. Never Married; Never Wanted to Be

I am in a long-term relationship of 14 years; the one prior lasted 9 years, so it's not the idea of monogamy that bothers me - it's the whole idea behind marriage. I don't need anyone to witness a promise to make me keep it; I don't need the church and/or state's permission to screw; I'm not property to be signed over.

That said, if I had to get married, say to retain health insurance, I would; in other words, I'd do it if my depended upon it.

[jobycom]

13. I liked it, though my own has been a failure.

I'm separated after 19 years. I liked the whole part of being married, of committing entirely to one person, being there when she needed me... Sadly, she was less than committed, was rarely there when I needed someone, and it took me years to realize the depth of her lies. Even so, it was a stable part of our lives which allowed us both to pursue the other goals we had. Those goals sometimes put us at odds, but the compromises were worth it for what we gained.

But you're right, it's not for everyone, and if you don't want it or need it, don't do it. Your head may not be telling you not to marry, it may just be telling you not to settle for what you've found so far. Settling is bad. When it's the right time and the right person, you don't feel like you're settling, you feel like you're adjusting to make it work.

As for all that about older couples complaining about the other, feeling like they were trapped into it, and all of that... that's just life. All the older single people I know felt they were trapped into their lives, too. Non-married people always think marriage is more than it is. It's more like buying a house than like any constant change of identity. You are still the same person, you still do much the same thing, but it gives you a specific place to come home to each night and a similar setting to pursue your dreams from. Over time you change and it changes--you paint walls, add on, fix things that break, sometimes live with faults you wish you didn't have to live with. Often you see another house that looks better, or would suit your lifestyle more, and then you feel trapped, but in the end the other house isn't any better for you, just different, and the house you live in is the one that suits your needs. It's home, and if you chose the right house, you'll remember exactly why it's the right house from time to time, and know you don't really want to move to another.

A friend of mine who had been through three marriages told me once she should have never left the first one. Not really because she loved him any more than the others, but because she had to put in the same amount of work, anyway, and she really didn't make any improvements with the new ones. The third one was just marrying out of habit. I think it depends on your life goals. If they are to remain constantly in love, marriage won't work, though it's not as fatal to love as it looks from the outside (even single, you have moods, you have periods when you don't want anyone too close). If your goals are to have a friend and a companion and a lover who excites you from time to time, but who allows you to get on with the rest of your life, marriage, if chosen right, takes away all the drama of constantly changing romances.

As I said, this is all from someone about to divorce. But there were specific bad things about mine, not just the run-of-the-mill problems. Those weren't so bad. Every life has problems, marriage is just something else to blame them on.

Just my thoughts. I'm going to the store to buy some Nyquil, now, to see if I can get at least one night's sleep this week. :-)

[StellaBlue]

17. thanks for the well-thought-out input

Sorry to hear you are going through a rough time in your life right now, and sorry that your marriage did not match your commitment.

As for me, in my last relationship, which for the first two years or so I thought would be my last one, to me it WAS 'adjusting to make things work' - but my partner couldn't adjust. I don't think he will ever be happy with anyone.

And your third paragraph, about how non-married people think marriage is more than it is, makes me ask even more: what's the point?

I also cannot stand drama. Hence I tend to have long relationships and long periods of singlehood in between. I won't date most men. So that kind of narrows the options to begin with. I also am not into casual sex at all. I think if you do not have totally unrealistic, Julia-Roberts-movie-fed, fairy-tale expectations, it doesn't have to be all that dramatic. Once you're over about 20. You just make the most of love while it's there. You stay positive and give what you can. And, if it passes, you go on more easily if you haven't sublimated your own desires and goals and money into a marital corporation. IMHO.

[hfojvt]

49. that was very good

Especially the house analogy. Except that you are not really the same person when you have a house or a spouse. A house is yours, having that, you have, perhaps a false, prop to your self-identity. You have something - a home, some equity, and purposes (long term goals - getting it paid for, adding a garage or permanent siding, putting a shade tree on the western side, etc.)

As a single guy without a decent job I often have had to deal with feelings of worthlessness, especially when trying to date or applying for jobs. Nobody loves me, nobody wants me, so by all appearances I am useless and unloveable.

I really think I only escaped from those feelings by getting a dog, even though they seem to be total users. (You come home from work and they are there to greet you with wagging tails, but only saying 'great, you're back, now you can take me for a walk and get me something to eat.')

Now I have a decent job too (and just like spouses, there are so many jobs out there which are not worth having, but ya gotta have one, I need one.) My job is dysfunctional, and my brother said, name one that isn't. It feels like my co-workers, bosses and subordinates are always trying to tear me down. Theoretically, if I had a spouse he/she would be there to build me up, although many times relationships can be more dysfunctional than jobs. But nobody ever imagines that they want to be unhappily married.

[Maine Mary]

15. Good Topic!

And you are smart to be thinking this through!

Coming from a fundie family, I married young (@18) to the only guy I had ever really dated. I was 15 and he 20 when we met. I had a baby girl @19 and that's when he became a REAL jerk (I won't go into it, but he was just 'kind-of' a jerk before, so I didn't see it coming)

Anyway, at age 20, I found myself a single mom and though it was REALLY bad money wise I learned to enjoy my independence. I worked at a shoe factory stitching for 4 bucks an hour until I started making piecework money. It took awhile to get good and fast, but once I did, I saved up 500 bucks to buy an old car... No more dragging my kid on that stupid plastic sled to day care. I still didn't have enough to eat decently, but was otherwise "styling"!

The point is, I MADE IT! My daughter and I had some rough years but I got us out of it w/no help from anyone including the sperm donor. And I VOWED, I would never again be financially dependent on a man.

The guy I am with joined our little family in the summer of 1989. He gave me an engagement ring in Feb of 1990. I accepted the ring and said yes but here it is 15 years later, and there are no wedding plans in sight. I know him well enough to say he'd never screw me over but for some reason, I am still scared and not sure it'd be right.

Meanwhile WHY do people always assume that it's the woman who wants marriage? As if men are so special we've got to claim our damn prize?!? I've heard many a person say "Why won't he marry you'? And I have to explain. Sometimes I don't think people believe me. It's nuts.

My daughter told me she wants no children. She is my only child. But if I am to have no grandchildren, so be it. I want her to live the life she was meant to live.

And you, StellaBlue, I salute you and hope you will always be true to your gut feelings. There may be a day you want to get married but if not, fine. Don't let family, friends, or society dictate what you want to do with your life.

God Bless
-MM

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

16. I don't see myself marrying either

I get the response from people "Hey don't be so negative", I'm like what is it that I'm saying it negative. I've been thru the parents divorcing and witness dozens and dozens of other divorces, and I just feel people are to careless about that kind of thing. If I find miss right it's going to be on my terms, but I won't have a woman that worships the ground I walk on, stand by your man type that never let out what she wants out of life or a relationship. She'll have to tell me what her needs are ,along with mine we'll just find compromise. If I met miss right tommorrow she'd have to understand the next 4 years are going to be occupied by my schooling, and I'd be understand of what's going on with her life.

[Popol Vuh]

18. I am 39 years old

And I am perfectly content if I never get married. At the present moment I am single but enjoy meeting new women; which I do some of the times when I go out.

I am not some kind of a playboy or anything like that, but I am able to get my share of some lovin. What's nice at this age is: Woman are often times just as aggressive as we men are. And just as long as you don't say something stupid, or go on and on about yourself, you're IN..

As far as I am concerned about this subject is: I have dated many very nice gals --some for a few years-- but haven't met one yet where we would both agree to settle down.

IF I were to meet someone I'd like to settle down with, I think I'd prefer not actually getting legally married. Either just making our vows to each other or, at the most, having some none legal ceremony.

I just don't like the idea that the "government" thinks it has to issue a "license" for me and a mate to get married. Who are they? They mean nothing to me in that respect.

[WindRavenX]

19. perhaps not marriage in the "traditional" sense...

...I do want to be with someone for the rest of my life, a life mate if you will, I just don't want all the fuss that's associated with the whole thing.

No big engagement/wedding ring
No fancy wedding
No big deal.

Because the way I think of it, when you decide to be with each other for the rest of your lives, I think too many people think marriage "changes" things. To me, I don't want it to change anything. Like, one day the both of you wake up and realize you can never be apart.
But no big fuss about it. Just go about your ways, imo.

Great question.

[leftofthedial]

20. upon my recent divorce

I resolved that marriage is a bad idea.

[Justice Is Comin]

21. Most marriages today

are

1. engagement ring

2. wedding ring

3. suff ring


The best thing they could possibly do is put marriage on a 1 year contract like a fishing license. Every year, if you still want to stay together you go down and sign up for another year. It would solve everything.

Nothing would be different than it is now as to actual consequences or property divisions in divorces. Custody of kids issues would not be any different. You still have custody issues with present marriage. All it would do is take all the need for expensive lawyers out of the equation. These are the only people who thrive on and make a bonanza on divorce.

It would virtually eliminate bitter divorces. It would take common animosity for each other in most divorces out of the equation. Because if both people know the other could walk away at the end of the year, there would be less divorces because partners would not take each other for granted so easily.

Marriage now is I gotcha, I own ya. At least until divorce. With a one year contract, if you want to keep what you got, you better do the things that make them want to stay with you. Otherwise you lose it.

You can't get a kitten to play with a ball of yarn unless you pull it away. And they have a pea size brain. It's so simple

[aclog]

62. Oh, suff ring!

I read that twice wondering what the hell a stuff ring might be! It sounded logical but simultaneously had me scratching my head lol

[RetroLounge]

22. Never fucking ever again. Ever.

But I've said that before...

:shrug:

RL

[threehensandacow]

64. maybe you'll change your mind

after the black dress. oh, wait, i don't ever want to get married again. never wanted to. and now i get to be a divorced woman. yeah. all of my goals are being met.

[RetroLounge]

65. That must be one hell of a black dress

I will keep an open mind...

:hug:

RL

[Gormy Cuss]

23. When I was your age

(pause to let StellaBlue groan, roll her eyes, and brace for the lecture)

I felt the same way. I told my then SO who thought I was somehow emotionally deficient for not having marriage/kids/house in the burbs at the top of my life goals. It was the first time I had a relationship break up that way, but not the last. It's not natural, apparently.;-)

In ten years time you may still feel like this. You may not. Either way is OK.

[Ellen Forradalom]

24. Six years into my second one

I am coming around to similar ideas.

The problem for me is that Mr. Spouse inevitable starts acting like he's the head of the household, being the man and all. That goes over real well with me, thank you.

[supernova]

25. Defnitely very gun shy

It's not being in a relationship that bothers me. I'm quite capble of giving and received affection, passion, and all the rest.

My problem is I'm not a particularly good judge of who would be good to be with in the first place. There is something about me that chooses people who are unhealthy for me in one way or another.

So, I rarely bother anymore. I'm content with my own company, my own interests. If someone comes along that I really can't do without, fine. But I'm not actively seeking it.

[RazzleCat]

27. I don't see it again

In my case, its mostly too hard to adjust to a new person in "my space". Marriage is a series of compromises, which is OK, but hey near 50, don't want to compromise on lots of stuff again. I like guys, involved with one right now, but I think for me the ideal situation would be side by side houses where we could go visit on a daily basis, yet have our own space. I find the silly arguments that you get into way to exhausting now, you know the ones, how many blankets on the bed, window open or closed at night, who's turn is it to walk the dog. It's sounds so trivial when I type it out, but I swear its all these small things that make me nuts in a marriage situation. Not one of them is a big deal, but when you add them all up you build up a lot of small resentments that just make the relationship suck. So don't see another marriage in my future, but hopefully will continue to have male friends.

[raccoon]

32. Been there, done that!

"My problem is I'm not a particularly good judge of who would be good to be with in the first place. There is something about me that chooses people who are unhealthy for me in one way or another. "

[kick-ass-bob]

26. Getting married just to be married to SOMEONE is dumb.

That's why you end up seeing a lot of divorces, because people think "well, (s)he's pretty good to me, I should marry her/him."

So I agree with you to a point.

But, when you say "financially dependent" that is just plain not the case. If you go into a marriage to be "taken care of" (aka financially dependent) then you sell yourself and the marriage short. Marriage is "interdependence" where both parties depend on each other but can exist on their own.

That is perfection.

[StellaBlue]

53. I just feel that, even now, as a woman

unless I somehow miraculously come into lots and lots of money, marraige will be BAD for me financially. Especially since I want to have kids. I would NEVER want to be 'taken care of'. That's repellent.

[LynneSin]

28. I have no desire to marry unless....

...Robert Plant is proposing. Other than that, I could be happy just being in a relationship and I definately do not want kids!

[mongo]

38. I hope that you change your mind someday about kids

Your spawn would be a great addition to the human race.

[LynneSin]

48. Nah, that would require me doing all that messy stuff like diaper

I don't have enough money to afford a full-time nanny to take care of my kids so I choose not to have any - I'm selfish!

[GrumpyGreg]

56. You're not selfish---you made a choice.

I have 3 marrieds and 2 not marrieds(all middle aged) and the single ones are absolutely adored by their nieces and nephews.The kids think the single ones are much "cooler".

The world needs childless people just as much as it needs parents.

Good luck to you !

[GalleryGod]

57. From One GG to another....thanks

for that balanced assessment, Greg:applause:


My next Stop: Those inevitable Step Grand Kids ! Can't Wait:woohoo:




FWIW- I detest any child being called "Spawn"and I know it's a very,very, popular term here at the DUL

[GalleryGod]

29. No. I actually went BACK and tried it again. Voila!

:shrug: My first marriage was a classic mismatch. She married again,also,and has 3 children and by all accounts is happy. I waited a full 15 years between marriages and would have to hit the Powerball Lottery to be happier!
I inherited 4 stepchildren who are terrific young adults,today...what a treat watching them grow-up..better than digital cable !*





*:pals: Sorry to disagree with my old fav bud, MaineMary, but,of course,
her situation was WAY different....my Ex comps me tickets to
casino shows in A.C. about twice a year:crazy:

[Brewman_Jax]

30. Little acknowledged fact

in the past, marriage was the process for the upper-class to create and provide an orderly transition of wealth and status to the next generation. That's the reason for the terms "legitimate" and "illegitimate" children/heirs. But, I digress.

This is something I've thought about for quite a while. Marriage, it's no fairy tale. I see my parents' marriage (going on 44 yrs), but hardly happy. Had my mother been better educated and the Fates been kinder, I'm sure she'd have gotten divorced years ago. I don't need help being miserable. To add, I've seen too many looking for the fairy tale, and have their hopes dashed when reality sets in. I have another friend who's just started the divorce process (married 3 yrs, 1 daughter).

I have no desire to have children; IMO, that's the only reason to get married. Being awakened during the middle of the night and dirty diapers ain't my idea of fun (I have a brother 8 years younger, I have worn baby food, cleaned dirty baby butts and heard cries at 2am. ). Also, there are enough live ones who need care. I did like being a coach, camp counselor, and substitute teacher. More power to those that can do it 24/7.

I find it odd in our society that being married is more important than the relationship. I don't get it. :shrug:

The way I see it, the more independent and self-sufficient you are, the better your options. You have to be complete within yourself; there's no one who can complete you, just compliment you. At least you know this well in advance. Sounds like you'll do just fine.

[raccoon]

31. I'm in my mid-fifties, never married.

I never made a conscious decision, "I'll never get married." I just never did. Since I never wanted to have children, that wasn’t an issue for me. I've had boyfriends in the past; one live-in arrangement that lasted 6 years.

"My experience has led me to the conclusion that I don't like most men "

Mine too. I know there are lots of decent men out there, but my personal experience with relationships has been, for the most part, unpleasant.

My parents had a terrible marriage, which ended when my father died. I realize, of course, this has colored my thinking. In their marriage, my father did whatever he felt like and my mother put up with it.

IMHO, generally speaking, men get more out of marriage than women do. That's been my observation of relatives, and my own experience.

At my age, and now that my mother and stepfather are both deceased, sometimes I wish I were married so that I wouldn't be quite so alone. I have siblings, but they're all married, and of course that's not the same thing.

I'm not against marriage per se; if a couple has a happy marriage, I'm think that's great.

“I don't particularly feel that I am incomplete or need someone to promise to love me forever.”

Me either.

Don’t marry if you don’t want to, Stella Blue. And peer pressure or family pressure are among the worst reasons for getting married.

[complain jane]

63. I especially agree with the last line in your post.

Society puts SO much friggen pressure on people in this regard.

[Greyhound]

33. I'm with you on this one. Never wanted to breed and hate the

idea of the State sanctioning my life. I am in my 6th long-term (more than 1.5 years) relation ship and am very happy. Most of my exes are friendly and are also happy in their lives.
I think the concept of marriage is slowly becoming an anachronism from a bygone era. Women are no longer chattel (at least not officially) and capable of earning their own income, children are not property (not sure this was such a good idea) to be worked or sold as father wishes. Most objectionable to me is the notion that I'm responsible for the actions of another person and vice-versa.
My $.02 :shrug:

[GOPisEvil]

34. Not so much that I don't want to, necessarily. But, if I never get married

I'm not going to worry about it. I actually enjoy my own company, and the bouts of loneliness don't last too long. If I find someone, great. If I find someone and we never decide to get married, whatever. If I never find someone, that's cool too.

[kedrys]

36. I swore up and down I'd never get married

When the s.o. and I met, we were both 35, never married, no kids. We dated 3 months, during which making our relationship permanent became inevitable - we're that good a match. :)

Coming up on 10 years, we've had our knock-down drag-outs, trials and tribulations, and suchlike, but neither one of us can even imagine being with anyone else. One thing that helps is that we're both terminal non-conformists, starting with the wedding: we eloped to get married in front of the judge. Boy does most of the housework, girl makes more money than boy, we didn't and don't want kids, and we don't care what anyone thinks.

I don't advocate marriage for anyone unless they feel very strongly about it and are doing it for the right reasons. Most of my family lives in Eastern Canada, and none of my cousins are married. They have partners and kids, but apparently the actual marriage part is too expensive, so nobody's getting married anymore. :)

Enjoy being single, there's not a damn thing wrong with that! :hi:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

37. I decided long ago...

that marriage wasn't for me, at least in the way that is accepted as "marriage" today.

I am too much an individual who loves my freedom to do as I please when I please, who likes to spend a lot of my time alone, and who would go nuts at the idea of having to share a bed and a room with someone for the rest of my life.

If I could enter a "marriage" in which he had his place, I had mine, and we met a couple of times a week to be together, I might be able to handle it. Which is why I am great at being a girlfriend, but shitty when it's time to move beyond that.

And honestly, I haven't seen too many genuinely happy marriages in my lifetime to recommend the institution to me. Lots of married people, but happy? Nope. Not many. I look at these relationships and think to myself, "And they want me to get married WHY again?!?!"

I always say this: not everyone in this country wears a size 7 shoe. We wouldn't every expect someone who wears a 9 to stuff their poor feet into a 7 just to make it fit, that would be nuts. People are just like that too. This expectation that everyone should be the same when it comes to relationships -- that we should all fit into that "size 7" that is something called marriage -- is just as nuts.

[bikebloke]

40. Don't think it will happen for me

I've met some really good partners during my poor backpacker/traveller years. But those relationship, though intense, were here today - no tomorrow. After that, I've met very few americans that I can click with (nothing personal to you folk out there). I've since adapted to solitude and am content. And I've hit the 50 lap marker around the sun.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

42. Im not allowed to get married to the people I want to marry

but I have many of the same concers you do about marriage....

[kwassa]

43. I married for the first time at age 47, and it has worked well for me.

At times I never thought it would happen, and I had been in long term relationships before, and was engaged once before, only to have both of us back out of the impending marriage.

So, never say never, for who knows what life will present you with?

[datasuspect]

44. the marriage concept is predicated

on a notion that is completely untrue: that something can last forever.

one of the few truths in existence is impermenance and death.

nothing lasts forever.

also, how can you be legally attached to just one person? that would drive me fucking batshit crazy.

i've had love relationships with many people in the past, and i can still communicate with many of them to this day.

i'm glad i didn't marry any of them.

actually i live with one of them right now. and her husband. which is weird.

[StellaBlue]

72. re

the marriage concept is predicated on a notion that is completely untrue: that something can last forever.

I totally agree. And this has always seemed obvious to me. Since childhood. One of my girlfriends asked me once about seven years ago, 'do you think you'll ever get married?' and I said, 'I don't think you can promise to love someone for the rest of your life'. Of course, you can promise to stay with them regardless. And, to me, that's what marriage is.

[southlandshari]

45. Yes.

Belatedly.

[LSK]

46. add another to the list

There was one person who I would have wanted to marry, and she didnt agree. That was 10 years ago. Took a while to get over it and in that time I rediscovered my love for complete independence and freedom. Now at 33 I am completely set in my ways and have no thoughts of marriage or even serious relationships.

[CanuckAmok]

47. yeah, but it took me a divorce to realise it.

I never thought I'd want to get married. Then I met someone I wanted to marry, married her, and divorced her.

I should have stuck to my original feelings.

[ForrestGump]

58. I had to go and try it first, f*** it

And came to the (too late) conclusion that asking the State for permission to live together, and the tortuous, expensive process necessary to end that state of affairs, was inane.

Having said that, and being as gunshy as all get out, I wouldn't be surprised if I got married again. Really, even as much as I think the whole institution sucks -- yes, I know some people who have been happily married a long time, but the concept of State involvement in something so intimate really does belatedly strike me as a weird thing. But I'd be open to it..open to anything: it all depends on the other person. Any relationship I enter with the expectation that she'll be like my wife is doomed, anyway, so I'd be an idiot not to remain completely open and start from a blank page one.

[graywarrior]

60. Took us 25 years of living together to get married 5(?) years ago

[WritingIsMyReligion]

61. I'm only a teen, so of course what I think will probably change.

I don't know if I'll ever marry or not. I'm so much a feminist, a rebellious little teenager, that any relationship I would be in would never have me as anything less than an equal to my partner. I feel that I could never, ever, ever, ever, ever change my name upon marriage (hell, it's MY name), were I to decide to cross that bridge someday. I don't know if my generation has a man--or woman, were it to be that way--tolerant enough of my feminism and extreme lefty views.

[lizziegrace]

66. I probably would

Since I was before. My first marriage was for the person I was at 22. Now at 44, I'm looking for different qualities. I've had my child, raised her and am ready for a post-kids life. I used to think that it would be forever because my parents made it look so easy. They're coming up on 50 years soon. But I'm not the same person I was 22 years ago (Thank God!) and the relationship wasn't right anymore, even if he hadn't had his "crisis".

Just the view from the cheap seats.

[Nikia]

67. Yes, but I married and my husband loves me

As for me, I think that linking ones life with another so closely leads to higher expectations of a person, more criticism, and less forgiveness. The obligation aspect ruins the idea of doing something for someone because you want to.
I really don't want to be the highlight of anyone's life. I don't want anyone to value me higher than everyone else. That is all too much pressure.

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. You're probably not going to like what I am about to say....

So tell me that I shouldn't say it. ;)


I married my best friend (no this isn't really a mush post). And, I'm glad. You see, even as a single person there are times I felt "trapped", by jobs, friendships, family commitments...it's part of the human experience to feel bound negatively to something at one time or another in your life. All of the feelings you describe are also feelings you can have as a single person.

Things are not always "peachy" with MrG and I, but at the end of the day I've got him to bounce my day off of. The ups, the downs, and all the boring stuff. Nobody ever promises that marriage is a fairy tale, hearts and flowers, all is great type experience. We build it up that way in our minds. He is also the man that saved my life last year, supports my dreams and encourages me, with some fights thrown in just to keep it "spicy". ;) Basically, my best friend just happens to live with me. and our kids!

I never thought I would marry either, and then I did. As grandma always said, never say never, you may end up looking like a fibber. ;)

Best of luck in your future, you will do what is right for you.

[StellaBlue]

71. that's great for you

but at one time, I felt the same way with my ex. Against my better judgement (I always kind of felt like I do now about marriage and 'romance' - i.e. cynical), we lived together for more than three years. I was totally committed, even so far as to alienate myself fro mmy own culture and my own family and the career I could've had if I had stayed in my own country. And then he decided he wanted something else. Space. A new life. Whatever. And I will never allow anyone, male or female, lover or friend, to put me in that position ever again. I only trust myself. Sorry.

Also, I did say that I am not against the idea of having some kind of male companion, either long- or short-term. I just don't want to get married. And, most likely, am not even willing to move in together.

I need my space.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't WANT to feel like you do, so it's not about 'finding the right man' or 'being open-minded' or whatever. It's. Not. For. Me. Next time I think I feel that way, I will remind myself, "Oh, wait, I've felt this way before. And though I am currently high on infatuation and the fairy tale idea of promising to love someone for the rest of my life (I don't think that's a promise we can make, btw, and I have no desire to stay in a relationship with someone I no longer love, or who no longer loves me). So I won't jump in this time.'

But congrats to you and best of luck. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. My point I guess was (not finding the right man not open minded)

it's People, whether single,married, polygamous, whatever... create their own feelings of being trapped. No one is responsible for anyone else in this life. I'm sorry my post came across just as I hoped it wouldn't. Oh well.

[StellaBlue]

74. thanks for the post

And I really do wish you happiness (of course).

I just meant for this thread to be a place for other people who know they don't want to marry to discuss the reasons why, and the relationships they have created for themselves in this very pro-marriage society.

I don't need any more cheerleading for marriage or relationships. And, yes, you can be trapped by lots of people and situations - including yourself. Which I was. I could've walked out a million times and didn't. Because I 'believed' in the commitment we had. But I don't anymore. If I am in a relationship, I want it to be totally mutual. Being married just makes it an obligation, IMHO.

But the fact remains that, if you are a normal (non-millionaire) person like most of us here on DU, you ARE trapped by marriage. Especially if you're the woman. Financially. Through mortgages and pensions and all of the other entanglements that come from trying to build a life with another. I don't want to even try it again. Even if it means I have to live in a much, much smaller house because I am on a single income.

[ScreamingMeemie]

75. I didn't think I was cheerleading. I thought I was projecting the reality

of life. No...I'm not trapped. I choose not to be. What I am saying is, there was a time in my life when I said I was never having kids...and then it happens. What I wish I had done was not gaurantee anything in my life. My life, married or not, is my life. My feelings of being trapped are because I create them. I am not trapped by my mortgage, by retirement...none of it. I learned that from my dad a long time ago. You can walk away from any of that. It's what you choose to make important in your life.

rah rah...i guess.

[StellaBlue]

76. and

I don't mean to just sound like someone who's been burned and has no faith, or who hates men or blah blah blah. I mean that from my own personal experience, I don't think marriage WORKS. Add that to the fact that I know of VERY few people who remain happily married. I can think of only two people that I have known who really seemed to be happily married, and I never met their spouses (could've been one side of the story haha). Everyone else eventually (sooner or later) gets to a place where it's all just rote, intellectual boredom, nonexistent sex life, petty grievances, and feelings of deep resentment that the other person has or is somehow 'holding them back'. And that's how my ex felt about me, too.

So I think, for me, a much healthier approach would be to stay in a mutually pleasurable, mutually beneficial relationships only so long as it's just that. Getting married just forces one to pretend that the state you're currently in is going to last forever. And makes you feel as if it MUST. And that's dangerous. As has been said higher up in the thread, nothing lasts forever in this life, and to pretend that it can is folly.

Edited to add: And so, for me, it makes sense NOT to get entangled in any mortgages or other contracts with someone else. I don't want to feel, desperately, like IT MUST WORK, ever again. If I am not contractually tied to someone, the relationship can be natural and realistic - and, IMHO, much more joyful and filled with mutual gratitude.

[ScreamingMeemie]

77. I take things for what they are until they aren't. But, one can still

believe.

[GirlinContempt]

79. Wow

Yeah, you got it right Mrs. G! :)
I haven't ever been married, but that is totally what I'd like to find. Sounds like you have a great relationship.

"it's part of the human experience to feel bound negatively to something at one time or another in your life." Very, very good point. I personally have found people I know that have these feelings tend to attribute it wholly to one thing, as if it is the cause, effect and solution to this problem. And then don't understand why dumping their partner doesn't 'fix' them.

Cross your fingers I'll find what you have some day! :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

81. It took much stupidity on my part and a very long time as well.

I almost let him go. I have high hopes that you will find that. :hi:

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

69. Yes.

But in my case it's more of a "The Fox and the Grapes" thing.

[hippiechick]

70. Yes.

:hi:

[NV Whino]

78. Between the ages of 18 and 20

I had three marriage proposals (different guys). Fortunately I ran like hell. I have been in several close relationships, although never a live-in realationship, and I continue to be happy as a (single) clam as I near (very near) retirement age. Never wanted any kids either.

I have witnessed very few loving, steady, solid relationships with others. Two of my friends have opted to be single mothers because they wanted a child but not a husband. Neither of these ladies are gay, by the way.

So happy singlehood to you, I say!

[Ladyhawk]

80. I've been sure most of my life that marriage is a road I won't travel.

I'm old enough to be considered a "spinster" I suppose. :shrug: Every once in awhile I'll entertain the idea of getting involved with someone, but usually this feeling doesn't last.