Brokeback Mountain is a great movie.

[elshiva]

It is really, really sad, but so beautiful and true. :cry: :cry:

Asks the question (without even going out and saying it, of course) "Why is it acceptable for another man to kill another man, but not acceptable that a man have sex with another man?"

:cry:

[ZombieNixon]

1. In George Bush's America...

Sex = Bad. Death = Good.

Case in point: if, on a film, you kiss a boob, the movie gets an X rating. If however, you hack the boob off with a knife, it gets an R. :wtf:

Oh, and in GWB's America, Homosexuality = Satan :eyes:

[elshiva]

2. Yes, but don't just blame Bush!

Most of the action in the movie is in the sixties and the seventies.

Homophobia is just soo sick. I wish people would get that.

[ZombieNixon]

3. If anything, it was worse back then.

Was it? I don't know, I wasn't alive at the time.

I'll have to wait to see BBM on DVD, since I have no cash to go to a theater right now.

[elshiva]

4. Well, I wasn't alive then, either, but it WAS bad

from what I've read...

Also BBM takes place in Wyoming which of course was the home of Matthew Sheppard,
some things are better, but not better enough :(

[ZombieNixon]

5. If I were to guess at the future,

I think lesbianism and female bisexuality will gain mainstream acceptance before male homo- or bisexuality. Simply because our society is male-dominated and "hot girl-on-girl action" or whatever you want to call it gets guys hot, while "dude-on-dude sex" makes many men feel deeply uncomfortable.

[elshiva]

6. I've heard that argument a lot before cos I'm femal bi,

and I think it is true, but at the other time I think it is hard for
straight society to accept non-femme dykes who would never get into a
girl-on-girl porno. Ever see "Boys Don't Cry," about Teena Brandon as the
Butch/transperson who got killed cos of her loving another woman?
Than there was Sakia Gunn and there are a lot, unfortunately, of lesbians who get
attacked in hate crimes cos "They look like guys and take pretty ladies away from
men" that is what gets dykes in a male-dominated society. :(

[ZombieNixon]

7. Good point. The whole

"stop stealing our women, damn it" attitude. :eyes:

Actually, by overlooking that aspect of it, I think I betrayed by own sexual preconceptions...thereby proving my own point. Go me! :D

[elshiva]

8. Thank you! Yep that it, "She's gonna steal my woman, DAMNIT!"

Actually, you are very sensitive and kind for a heterosexual man.
I like you... ;)

[ZombieNixon]

9. I do what I can.

I like you too. :hug:

[elshiva]

11. Thanks!

:hug: Being open-minded and excerising an open-mind is all we can
do. :hug:

[NMMNG]

13. I've wondered at times why that is

Women historically have been considered the property of men. Even today this is the case in some societies, and even in the US some religious groups consider women subject to men. Accordingly it would seem that lesbians, who are in essence saying "we not only will not be subject to men, but outright reject men", would be far more distasteful than gay men. I would think that men would want to revolt and "put those uppity women in their places", so to speak.

[ZombieNixon]

14. But the view of women as sex objects trumps that.

Seeing two (or more) nubile young women get it on gets guys hot, at which point the brains in our heads stop working.

[NMMNG]

16. Yeah, that's when the other head kicks in

[ZombieNixon]

19. EEW!

Meine Augen!

[elshiva]

21. Hah! But butch-femme sex turns men off!

My dad, who is liberal, cringed and had to leave the room at the
butch femme sex scene in "But I'm A Cheerleader."

[ZombieNixon]

23. True.

Lesbian sex is A-OK with men as long as:
A. The girls are young and hot.
B. They don't reject all men.

Point B is why female bisexuality will be accepted before out-and-out lesbianism.

[elshiva]

25. Yep. Personally, I love butch-femme sex, but

men don't like women to out butch them, to be "More man than them."

Female Bisexuality is acceptable as long as you are married to a man
(like me)!

[ZombieNixon]

28. General attitude:

If we're gonna be out-butched, it damn well better be by someone with a penis! :D

I've always found bisexuality to be very interesting from a sociological standpoint. When it comes to sex, I tend to go in for me-on-girl. Hehe, I said "come." :7

[qnr]

22. You know, I've never really seen the attraction in that. You're correct

about the pervasiveness of it though.

[ZombieNixon]

24. Most guys, I should have said.

Nothing is absolute.

[qnr]

26. I knew that's what you meant. I think I'm just ornery. Ever since I was

a kid, I always preferred the things others didn't. Chicken wings. Coast Guard. Atari computers. Modula-2. The list is substantial.

[elshiva]

17. Oh, but men do put uppity women in place. See #6

Heterosexist Men do not want real lesbians but on girl-on-girl pornos, women safe and
controled. But when it's off the pornos it's hell to pay. Again, see "Boys Don't Cry" or
"The Children's Hour" examples of movies where lesbians are killed, raped, and/or lose their jobs/commit
suicide becuase of the homophobes.

"Trembling Before G-d" the documentary about Orthodox Jewish gays and lesbians records mostly lesbian
silence because as in one harrowing tale, Orthodox dykes in superOrthodox parts of Israel
kill themselves before they can even be discovered. How often does it happen?
Only God knows... :cry:

[NMMNG]

27. I have seen "Boy's Don't Cry" several times (I have the VHS)

It is gutwrenching and heartbreaking. I'll have to see "The Children's Hour" some time. I'm sure it will do wonders to restore what little faith I still have in humanity. :sarcasm:

[elshiva]

29. The Children's Hour is from the Fifties or Sixties.

It's based on a true story about two women teachers who lose their jobs
because they are lesbian and then worse stuff happens, sorry to give some of
that away

[qnr]

20. Depends upon where you were in those years. My brother is gay,

but we lived in NYC and had no problems at all.

[NMMNG]

10. My local theater still isn't playing it

I'm going to call and ask why the hell not. Every. single. week. Until they do. Fundie whackjobs aren't the only ones who can be a pain in the ass. :evilgrin:

[elshiva]

12. DO IT! DO IT!

Thanks BuffyTheFundieSlayer. It is a great movie and I wish all fundies could
really watch this movie. It shows how hard it is to be homosexual, but also how much
two men can really love and care for each other.

Thanks! :hug:

[NMMNG]

15. I would love them to see it, if I thought they could open their minds

But they'd probably be thrilled about how hard it is. "The harder the better--they shouldn't be that way anyway" they'd twitter in their self-righteous tones. They wouldn't be able to see the love, they'd only see the sex and be whining about the perversion. They'd also be flapping about how the men were "cheating" on their wives to be with each other (not even mentioning that it was because of homophobic hatemongers like themselves that the guys had to get married in the first place). :eyes:

[elshiva]

18. Yeah, I know, the Fundies would Not REALLY see it

or understand it. :( Or more importantly understand that homophobia literally kills.