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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:31 PM
Original message
For the lounge: Pat Metheny's rant against Kenny G
This is just too classic:

ne 5, 2000) kenny g is not a musician i really had much of an opinion about at all until recently. there was not much about the way he played that interested me one way or the other either live or on records. i first heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman with jeff lorber when they opened a concert for my band. my impression was that he was someone who had spent a fair amount of time listening to the more pop oriented sax players of that time, like grover washington or david sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in that style. he had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues- lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music. but he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the keys moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again) . the other main thing i noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, play horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.

of course, i am aware of what he has played since, the success it has had, and the controversy that has surrounded him among musicians and serious listeners. this controversy seems to be largely fueled by the fact that he sells an enormous amount of records while not being anywhere near a really great player in relation to the standards that have been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy years.

and honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. there must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than kenny g on his chosen instruments. it would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.

having said that, it has gotten me to thinking lately why so many jazz musicians (myself included, given the right “bait” of a question, as i will explain later) and audiences have gone so far as to say that what he is playing is not even jazz at all.

stepping back for a minute, if we examine the way he plays, especially if one can remove the actual improvising from the often mundane background environment that it is delivered in, we see that his saxophone style is in fact clearly in the tradition of the kind of playing that most reasonably objective listeners WOULD normally quantify as being jazz. it’s just that as jazz or even as music in a general sense, with these standards in mind, it is simply not up to the level of playing that we historically associate with professional improvising musicians. so, lately i have been advocating that we go ahead and just include it under the word jazz - since pretty much of the rest of the world OUTSIDE of the jazz community does anyway - and let the chips fall where they may.

and after all, why he should be judged by any other standard, why he should be exempt from that that all other serious musicians on his instrument are judged by if they attempt to use their abilities in an improvisational context playing with a rhythm section as he does? he SHOULD be compared to john coltrane or wayne shorter, for instance, on his abilities (or lack thereof) to play the soprano saxophone and his success (or lack thereof) at finding a way to deploy that instrument in an ensemble in order to accurately gauge his abilities and put them in the context of his instrument’s legacy and potential.

as a composer of even eighth note based music, he SHOULD be compared to herbie hancock, horace silver or even grover washington. suffice it to say, on all above counts, at this point in his development, he wouldn’t fare well.

but, like i said at the top, this relatively benign view was all “until recently”.

not long ago, kenny g put out a recording where he overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old louis armstrong record, the track “what a wonderful world”. with this single move, kenny g became one of the few people on earth i can say that i really can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most important figure in our music.

this type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when natalie cole did it with her dad on “unforgettable” a few years ago, but it was her dad. when tony bennett did it with billie holiday it was bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the 20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic accomplishment. when larry coryell presumed to overdub himself on top of a wes montgomery track, i lost a lot of the respect that i ever had for him - and i have to seriously question the fact that i did have respect for someone who could turn out to have have such unbelievably bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.

but when kenny g decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all over one of the great louis’s tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that i would not have imagined possible. he, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, shit all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that louis armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician. by disrespecting louis, his legacy and by default, everyone who has ever tried to do something positive with improvised music and what it can be, kenny g has created a new low point in modern culture - something that we all should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. we ignore this, “let it slide”, at our own peril.

his callous disregard for the larger issues of what this crass gesture implies is exacerbated by the fact that the only reason he possibly have for doing something this inherently wrong (on both human and musical terms) was for the record sales and the money it would bring.

since that record came out - in protest, as insigificant as it may be, i encourage everyone to boycott kenny g recordings, concerts and anything he is associated with. if asked about kenny g, i will diss him and his music with the same passion that is in evidence in this little essay.

normally, i feel that musicians all have a hard enough time, regardless of their level, just trying to play good and don’t really benefit from public criticism, particularly from their fellow players. but, this is different.

there ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any musician that has ever attempted to address jazz at even the most basic of levels, louis armstrong and his music is hallowed ground. to ignore this trespass is to agree that NOTHING any musician has attempted to do with their life in music has any intrinsic value - and i refuse to do that. (i am also amazed that there HASN’T already been an outcry against this among music critics - where ARE they on this?????!?!?!?!- , magazines, etc.). everything i said here is exactly the same as what i would say to gorelick if i ever saw him in person. and if i ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)

NOTE: this post is partially in response to the comments that people have made regarding a short video interview excerpt with me that was posted on the internet taken from a tv show for young people (kind of like MTV) in poland where i was asked to address 8 to 11 year old kids on terms that they could understand about jazz.

while enthusiastically describing the virtues of this great area of music, i was encouraging the kids to find and listen to some of the greats in the music and not to get confused by the sometimes overwhelming volume of music that falls under the jazz umbrella. i went on to say that i think that for instance, “kenny g plays the dumbest music on the planet” - something that all 8 to 11 year kids on the planet already intrinsically know, as anyone who has ever spent any time around kids that age could confirm - so it gave us some common ground for the rest of the discussion. (ADDENDUM: the only thing wrong with the statement that i made was that i did not include the rest of the known universe.)

the fact that this clip was released so far out of the context that it was delivered in is a drag, but it is now done. (it’s unauthorized release out of context like that is symptomatic of the new electronically interconnected culture that we now live in - where pretty much anything anyone anywhere has ever said or done has the potential to become common public property at any time.) i was surprised by the polish people putting this clip up so far away from the use that it was intended -really just for the attention - with no explanation of the show it was made for - they (the polish people in general) used to be so hip and would have been unlikely candidates to do something like that before, but i guess everything is changing there like it is everywhere else.

the only other thing that surprised me in the aftermath of the release of this little interview is that ANYONE would be even a little bit surprised that i would say such a thing, given the reality of mr. g’s music. this makes me want to go practice about 10 times harder, because that suggests to me that i am not getting my own musical message across clearly enough - which to me, in every single way and intention is diametrically opposed to what Kenny G seems to be after.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. ........
:rofl::rofl:

Oh.My.God. That is TOO fucking funny. TOO funny! And yet so, so, so, so, so true.

Burn on, Pat. Burn on.

:patriot:

:applause:
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hilarious!
Pat Metheny is my favorite jazz guitarist, even though he's pretty fuckin' arrogant himself. But, he can also back it up. Thanks for posting this Taverner, I have some friends who will get a good laugh out of this. Do you have a linky link?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Here
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/arti0900_03.htm

Metheny may be arrogant, but damn if he isn't one of the greatest guitarists alive today.

I saw him do "Hendrix" one night, and it was pure amazing. The guy can do rock licks just as well as jazz...
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Damn, I'm jealous.
I've never had the chance to see him live, nor hear him do any rock licks. His jazz stuff is pure sweetness though. I'm a bigger fan of his solo stuff, as opposed to his "Group".

Thanks for the link.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. "So Falls Witchita So Falls Witchita Falls" is pure bliss
Especially "For You." That tune gives me goose bumps every time.
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Great album!
Mine's so scratched up I can barely play it anymore. Thanks for the reminder, I need to get a new copy.

I've always been in love with "Unity Village" from Bright Size Life. I will never tire of that song.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Pat is a MENSCH
and a damn GOOD musician. He got BIG EARS.

I have nothing personal against Mr.G. Y'all who relate to his pabulum, please enjoy yourselves. I do, however, hate the corporate, throw-money-at-it success that he has attained... IIRC his uncle is a Starbucks guy who financed him. Had the GALL to buy an ad in Ebony proclaiming this dunnschiß as "the greatest saxophonist ever." :puke:
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. I love it! We need more REAL musicians like PAT speaking out
against the bullshit and the crap that the corporations push on us, and that the exceedingly large unwashed massed buy up in droves in their pursuit of ART as ENTERTAINMENT, like Mariah, Kenny G, or American Idol and all the filth that they spawn.

I wish MORE of the REAL musicians would speak up and against the shit with the courage and truth that Pat managed here.

There should be one article a day, inserted into all newspapers, by one REAL musician trashing one fake musician.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Go Rabrrrrrr!
You are SO right, man.

:patriot:
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Tafiti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. "I'll tell you what's wrong to me:
The industry's ability to manufacture stars,
then churn 'em out like Iwojima makes cars.

But the blame lies not with those suits for trying,
It's the sheep, that keep on buying that soulless crap.
Whatever they put in front of ya - the hysteria of America."

-Nick Hexum
"Plain"
Music (1993)-and damn if it isn't still true 13 years later.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Shit, it was true in the 60s and the 50s
Though the shit back then wasn't anywhere near as bad as the shit of today.

Id' say the real shit started in the 80s, when MTV started. I don't know if MTV is to blame, though I think it plays a big part (because all of a sudden bovine dorito-addicted ignorant America could decide if a performer was "cute" or not, and thus decide whether their music was "good" or not).
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I blame American Idol
There was good pop in the 60's. The Turtles weren't bad, and even the 80's had some great bands (Talking Heads, The Police).

But once American Idol came on the air, it was all about having a "look" rather then being talented.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Dude, you're 20 years too late
it started around the same time that MTV started.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. But good bands made it past the MTV filter
Lots of talented bands made it, despite not being "camera ready." they just had to have a trippy video people would remember.

Now, bands can't even sneak by with that, with MTV not airing videos and instead airing reality crap 24x7.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I love Pat Metheny even more now
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is worth a kick
In fact, this should be pegged to the top of the first page. :-)
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. good stuff
:rofl:
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. And here's Richard Thompson's take on the controversy...
I Agree With Pat Metheny
by Richard Thompson

I agree with Pat Metheny
Kenny's talents are too teeny
He deserves the crap he's going to get
'Overdubbed himself on Louis
What a musical chop suey
Raised his head above the parapet

Now Louis Armstrong was the king
He practically invented swing
Hero of the twentieth century
'Did duets with many a fella
"Fatha" Hines, Bing, Hoagy, Ella
Strange he never thought of Kenny G

A meeting of great minds, how nice
Like Einstein and Sporty Spice
Digitally fused in an abortion
Oh, Kenny fans will doubtless rave
While Satchmo turns inside his grave
Soprano man's bit off more than his portion

Brainless pentatonic riffs
Display our Kenny's arcane gifts
But we don't care, his charms are so beguiling
He does play sharp, but let's be fair
He has such lovely crinkly hair
We hardly notice, we're too busy smiling

How does he hold those notes so long?
He must be a genius. Wrong!
He just has the mindlessness to do it
He makes Britney sound like scat
If this is jazz I'll eat my hat
An idle threat, I'll never have to chew it

So next time you're in a rendezvous
And Kenny's sound comes wafting through
Don't just wince, eliminate the cause
Rip the tape right off the muzak
Pull the plug, or steal a fuse, Jack
The whole room will drown you in applause

Yes, Kenny G has gone too far
The gloves are off, it's time to spar
Grab your hunting rifle, strap your colt on
It's open season on our Ken
Yet I await the moment when
We lay off him and start on Michael Bolton


:rofl:


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LeftPeopleFinishFirst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. i remember that.
my jazz saxophonist brother sent Pat an email about kenny g and how much he agreed with his rant. he responded!
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