I need advice about my alcoholic sister.

[rhino47]

I posted this before in the addiction/recovery group but no response.
I am kind of desperate.
My sister is addicted badly to alcohol.She is currently living with my other sister.That went south.She was told in no uncertain terms that she had to be out of Laurie`s house by Friday.The reason for this is Beth would drink for days on end and sleep.She would dry out maybe for 4 or 5 days a month and go back at it.I witnessed Beth on her drying out one day.I have NEVER seen anything so awful.(I once helped detox a herion addict)Vomiting for hours on end shaking eyes rolling barely able to walk.Laurie just could not take watching Beths suicide any longer.Beth blames this all on Laurie`s husband.
I offered her to come to my house.She knows she always has a spot with me.However I was an addict myself.18 years and still recovering.I put terms on her staying with me.
I told her before she even comes into my house we need to go to an AA meeting.(or an alternative of her choice)I am willing to go through all of it with her.I work from home and my husband is retired.There is someone here 24/7 that can help watch over her and support her.My husband is a 26 year recovering cocaine/pot/pills/ addict.We both have been there.
The only thing I ask is she attempt to help herself.I having two children ages 8 and 13 am not willing to have then watch their aunt drink herself to death.I am not able to watch her kill herself.
I have four sisters and we are all extremely close.My conflict is I am afraid my conditions are going to make her not want to live with me.
I feel conflicted in my desire to assist my sister and to protect my husband and children.I do not want to enable her drinking.I also do not want to be sucked into an addictive lifestyle again.I also feel that I am forcing her into a move she is not ready to accept.I can not however stand to see her like this.This is my shining bright idol.Shes a psychologist.I love that bright person.I hate the disease.
She just called me 10 min ago and we talked.She asked where she would sleep and so on.I finally told her we need to go to an AA meeting again she said she had no problem with that.Then when I said you are not alone Beth we can figure this out.We will get you back from your disease she hung up on me.I know I am rambling sorry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. The only advice I have is

Take yourself to an Al Anon meeting. You can't help her.

[LynneSin]

5. I agree absolutely

However, as for having her move in with you I would still keep the condition that she needs to be attending AA. With 2 young children in your house they shouldn't be exposed to this.

Sometimes tough love is the best love out there

[Midlodemocrat]

2. You sound like a very good sister. Your sister is lucky.

If I were in your shoes, I would have her committed to a detox center. Only because based on your description, she might need help going through withdrawal.

Best of luck to you. You are a good, good person.

:hug:

[rhino47]

4. I am not sure she would be willing to go into detox.

I do not think I will allow her in my house without a commitment to self help of some kind.Would that not be like me assisting her selfdestruction?

[Midlodemocrat]

7. I agree with NSMA's advice if you let her into your home.

But, I think you should go the detox route. When someone is that addicted to alcohol, withdrawal can really take a toll on the body.

Best of luck rhino. I know you are in a really tight spot. I had a godchild that I was raising who had a significant addiction to both alcohol and coke. It wasn't pretty.

[wovenpaint]

27. From someone who's been thru this

my only advice is that she sounds like she needs to go into detox. And, if she's not ready to commit to that, there's nothing you can do at this point. To bring her into your home could certainly be destructive for all living there. My heart goes out to the both of you and your family, it's a very hard road. Look into Al Anon for yourself, also. Best of luck.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Other than Al-Anon and a detox center, I just do not know what to say, but

I will be praying for you. I have been through this with my little brother and the only time tings started to get better was when he really wanted them to. :hug:

[rhino47]

6. This problem is rather immediate.

She is to be out of my other sisters house by tonight.Actually in five hours.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. She's being tossed out of your sister's house because she has

no commitment to stopping. It sounds like she will agree with your conditions long enough to fool you into helping her. Get her checked in somewhere or let her deal with it. You've got your kids to worry about. I'm not saying this to be cold. You can't help her.

[rhino47]

17. I do not in any way think you are cold.I think are being compassionate.

Thank you for your sound advice.I think I will let her know this is just a resting spot until she finds a treatment center to take her.By resting spot I mean two weeks or less of resting.

[prolesunited]

21. I hate to say it

but "resting spot" is a *big* mistake. Once she has her foot in the door, let the enabling begin. Given you and your husband's histories, you would be VERY susceptible to that.

IMO, you can't let her stay there even one night. Get her a motel room for a day if you have to and help her make calls from there the next day. Two weeks is just to more weeks she can avoid dealing.

She needs to hit bottom and experience the crisis she has created.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. Allow me to make an analogy

This is like Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. It's TEN times harder to remove it than to not give her a feeding tube in the first place. If you let her in for two weeks, you may as well admit it will be two months, two years or two decades. It will be ten times harder to throw her out than to not let her in in the first place.

At any rate, best of luck for you. You care too much.

[Midlodemocrat]

23. One more thing.

You might look into having her involuntarily committed to the local psychiatric hospital as being a danger to herself. Depending on where you live, you might be surprised; it could be an option.

Good luck.

[rhino47]

39. I really must thank you midlodemocrat

It was your suggestion that first made me aware of this.Believe it or not I was not aware that I could do that in this state.
You know as we all sit and type at our computers sometimes we forget there are humans at the other keyboards.What you did is you saved a life.
Seriously!Your act of humanity at least gave my sister a chance.If you had not suggested this I do not think she would be safely detoxing right now as we speak.

[Midlodemocrat]

48. Wow! That is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me on the internets.

I am so happy that things worked out for you.

God Speed. You are in my prayers.

[kwassa]

8. She has to do her own work; you can't rescue her (but you know this)

if you've done 12 step at all. Al Anon will help you deal, but her recovery is her responsibility, and the worst thing you can do is something that will enable her to keep drinking.

I agree with everyone else's advice here. Keep going to meetings yourself, talk to a sponser if you have one.

[underpants]

16. Yep you can knock yourself out but it is up to her

Go to your Community Service Board (MEntal Health, Substance Abuse, Mental Retardation) and see if she can get into a social detox.

Look I went through years of agony with my brother. I could list all the BS he put us through but let me just say this- it is up to her. She has to be the one to make the change. She may very well drink herself to death. She probably has to hit rock bottom....for women rock bottom is.... much worse than for men if you know what I am saying. You may feel horrible for letting her go out into the street but you need to seriously consider if you want her around your children you probably know as well as I do that drunks aren't necessarily dangerous but then again they are in their own world and they don't consider ANYTHING as important as that next drink and covering it up.

Good luck.

[skygazer]

10. Has your family ever staged an intervention?

If she is a psychologist, she knows somewhere within herself what she is doing to herself and her family but addiction blinds people (I know, I've been there, too). Perhaps an intervention would help cause her to face what she is putting her loved ones through and convince her she needs to go to detox - from what you describe of her withdrawal, I doubt if just AA can do it, at least at first.

As a recovering addict, you know that you cannot save your sister - she has to want to save herself. Also you have your kids to think about and they're young - this could be traumatizing for them. IMO, by telling her that "We will get you back from your disease," you are unintentionally enabling - giving her an out by promising that YOU will save her rather than telling her that she needs to save herself. Does that make any sense? You are obviously a caring and worried sister but you cannot take on her burden in this matter nor can you allow her to place it on you.

I think I would make detox part of the condition. At any rate, you have my sympathy - what a terrible spot to be in! :hug:

[rhino47]

14. Very good point skygazer

"We will get you back from your disease," you are unintentionally enabling - giving her an out by promising that YOU will save her rather than telling her that she needs to save herself.

That is exactly what I implied.
I would push detox but noone will take her right now.
She is without insurance at this point.
She has not held down a job in 4 years.
I already made plain to her that my family comes first.She tries to get in between that she is out.

[prolesunited]

11. As much as you love her

You need to love your children and husband more. Having her there would seriously jeopardize your family.

And, judging from your description of her withdrawal, she needs MEDICAL intervention to go through it.

I have family members with various problems, and as selfish as it sounds, I have always put taking care of myself and my family ahead of trying to save them from themselves. Ultimately, one brother committed suicide. I don't know if anything I would have done could have changed that, but I did come out whole on the other side.

It sounds cold, but it's the only way you can survive intact — and your husband and kids are counting on that. You can't bring that mess into your lives.

[rhino47]

15. I can not express how sorry I am for your loss.

I am most sincere when I say I can not imagine the pain your brother`s death caused.I thank you for your advice.I think it is very sound.
I do indeed need to put my family and their needs first.
That does not sound cold.It sounds right.

[prolesunited]

20. Thank you

And, believe me, there is residual guilt – I just try not to let it eat at me. Bottom line is as much as you want and no matter how hard you love, you can't fix someone else's life.

Facing her today and saying no will be one of the hardest things you ever do. Can your husband support you with this. Can you have the children be somewhere else to avoid seeing the confrontation because she may say some very ugly and hurtful things.

My advice is to be strong and firm and just say no. Perhaps you can look up some agencies that could help her and hand her the list. And, if it escalates to the point of violence (to herself or you), don't be afraid to call the police. They are trained to help.

Let us know how it goes. You're not alone here.

[MsAnthropy]

12. Do NOT subject your children to that

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. My sister is also an alcoholic

I tried intervention, pre-paid 28-day rehab (sober a year), and rescued her over and over again, including some very yucky hygeine stuff. It was not until I gave up that she put herself into outpatient rehab and started going to AA three days a week. She has been sober 2.5 months.

Don't rescue her. Don't give her a place to live. I know that is harsh. She is not ready. She wants to be rescued, to be saved...but you can't do it. You KNOW she will drink again.

My sister, too, was only dry for two or three days a months. She was in the hospital five times last year either detoxing or with atrial fib, or very dangerous electrolyte levels. I finally just accepted she would die. She called me and asked me to bring her vodka. Of course I said no. Then she asked if I would bring her gatoraide and chicken soup so she could detox. I told her I was no longer comfortable supervising her detoxes because with the low potassium her heart could stop. She asked me to come clean up her house. I told her I couldn't do that anymore.

Five days later she checked herself into the hospital on her own.

You have to pull back.

[pitohui]

18. i'm so sorry

however i think this is way beyond aa, i think she needs in-house rehab, when alcoholics get to the point where withdrawal is causing convulsions etc. they can actually DIE, she needs a medical team around her

i don't think it will do anything but prolong the inevitable if you have her live w. you

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. May I suggest a really good book?

It is called "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life" by Dr Daniel Amen. He is a neuropsychiatrist who has actually mapped the brains of patients with a scan called a SPECT scan during periods of emotional upset/ addiction etc. It can help you understand those areas of your sister's brain that are interrupted by her heavy drinking and it can also assist you with the degree to which you worry about it.

Hopefully she will want to detox, but there are medications out there that can assist her temporarily with staying sober once she does. The only way the detox/rehab will work is if SHE puts herself in it. If you demand it as a condition, she will only humor you temporarily. She may have stopped drinking sporadically for a few days or even a few months, but the disease is a progressive disease and every drink she has only emboldens her level of denial each time she returns to it.

[NorthernSpy]

24. please remember that alcohol withdrawal is not like heroin withdrawal...

I witnessed Beth on her drying out one day.I have NEVER seen anything so awful.(I once helped detox a herion addict)Vomiting for hours on end shaking eyes rolling barely able to walk.

A person who is in withdrawal from opiates is absolutely miserable and feels like hell, but is not usually in physical danger. Unfortunately, this is not true for a person who is quitting alcohol or sedatives: abrupt withdrawal of these substances has been known to provoke fatal seizures or heart arrhythmias that progress to cardiac arrest, among other things.

I guess that if I were confronting such a situation, I'd ask Beth whether she understands that her use of alcohol makes her death a real, near-future possibility. I would explain that the rest of the family cannot continue trying to treat this problem of hers on their own: it's simply too serious and too dangerous for all concerned. I would advise her to seek medical attention, and remind her that the decision whether to do so is strictly up to her.

Then I guess I'd hang up and let her decide for herself what she should do.

It's hard to back off. But as with any medical issue facing an adult patient, only the patient can decide whether to seek and accept treatment. No one can make that decision for her. And by the same token, the people around the patient have the right to refuse close contact with her if her refusal of treatment endangers them or severely disrupts their lives.


Anyhow, that's my take. I'm sorry you're going through this. Hope things turn out well for your family!

[rhino47]

26. I did advise her not to try to detox by herself anymore.

After reading posts and talking to a crisis center worker I asked this of her.She agreed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. you sound like a wonderful and supportive sister

i hope she accepts your terms and lives by it

butyou cant subject children to an alcoholic unless absolutely necessary...so your terms are very appropriate

[hyphenate]

28. Been there, done that

And I feel very sorry for you, but there is nothing you can really do that will go that extra step to have her quit. It's up to her to do it, and if she is not willing, body and soul, to quit, nothing will make her quit.

My sister is also an addict and an alcoholic. And she's been faced down on it too many times, been in jail, sobered up for a couple of days at a time, and been faced with more jail time and endless probation sessions, and nothing has made a difference. She will not quit. Her son and her two daughters (over time) have been taken away from her, and she won't quit. She has no code of ethics, and will steal from anyone, including my mother, who has been very ill at times and my sister still steals from her. Her oldest daughter, my niece, is 27 right now, and despises her mother. Her middle child is 21 and was raised by her father, and doesn't think much of her mother at all. Her youngest is an big an asshole as his father, and he's been dragged around by his mother from one place to another, and in and out of schools for most of his life. Right now, however, he is living with my niece, his half-sister. (All three have different fathers)

Some people who are addicts to one thing or another are most often unable to get beyond their additions because of brain chemistry. There is some truth to the comment that there is little some can do about it. And there is also a hereditary element to it--if your parents or other close relatives were addicts at some point, then chances are the children will also have the potential to be addicts as well.

My biological mother is/was also an alcoholic, but somehow, the only major addiction I inherited is for food. I swore I would never be like my mother when I found out the truth as a teenager, and I never did. I drank some for a couple of years after I got out of school, but I stopped and never felt I needed it. I was lucky--the potential was there, but somehow, I got through that obstacle.

It sounds like both you and your husband managed to rid yourself of that lifestyle, and I commend you for it. However, bringing your sister into the house is not going to be something you can do lightly, nor can you hope to have her obey any rules you might want to set. Drinking is the ONLY thing she wants to do, and if you get into her way, you are going to be very hurt in the end.

However, having said all that, I know you probably don't want to let her be left out in the cold. That's something all of us want to do, is to protect our friends and our families as much as we can. But you need to face the fact that she is unlikely to sober up and stay sober in your house without some serious counseling, and some mandatory and random drug testing. My sister was able to handle her drinking for a little while when her probation officer had her on random drug testing, but eventually she went back to drinking and really didn't give a fuck about the tests. I would suggest that if you want to have her in your home that you tell her she is going to have to submit to similar testing, randomly, and it could be up to 3 times a week if you think she is drinking again. If she won't agree to that, then you have no choice but to keep her from your home and your family, and tell her you can't and won't deal with her on her terms, and that unless she gets sober and stays sober, then she is on her own.

Unfortunately, we all have hearts and family members play a special part in our lives. But your other sister, who is throwing your sister out, is right on this: you can't let the alcoholism that she is dealing with control you and your family, and that is what will happen if you let her into your life without setting down the rules she will need to abide by, and by making certain that if she goes over the line then she is gone.

I sympathize with you, but having been in that same kind of situation myself, I have watched my mother go through hell enabling my sister to manipulate, steal, lie and destroy those people around her, all for the booze. It's not something I ever again want to watch, and something that only one person can change, which she doesn't choose to do. They say you have to bottom out before you can pick yourself up, but there are so many people who love the addict, and won't allow that person to hit bottom because of their love and misguided trust in that person. Enabling someone to keep killing themselves with substance abuse is not love, regardless of how some try to rationalize. Loving them enough to let them see their own way in the dark is a better way to show them you care, even if it's anguishing to watch them sink to that leve.

[khashka]

29. You are a loving and supportive sister

Would that we all had people like you in our lives.

Sad thing - there's not a goddamn thing you can do. Good thing - when she reaches the limit and has to change she has a sister who loves her and will help her.

Cold comfort, I know.. But it matters.

Khash.

[Redstone]

30. You can't solve a problem until you admit that you have one.

I think that's one of the AA steps.

Your sister is doomed until she admits that she has a problem. Until she does that, your attempts to help will be worse than useless; all that will happen is that she'll drag you down the vortex with her.

Sorry I couldn't offer anything easier or more comforting. It all starts with that admission. If you don't have that, you have nothing. And if she won't do it, get out while you can. Do what you can for the kids, because none of this is their fault, but otherwise just save yourself.

Redstone

[unsavedtrash]

31. what does your sponsor say about letting her stay in your house? I too

have a sister who is an alcoholic. I tried to help her for years but she didn't want to be helped. I might as well have been reading the Big Book to a wall. If you decide to let her stay, try to make it only for X amount of time. If by then she does not get help then at least you know you tried your best and are not responsible for her actions.

[Floogeldy]

32. She needs to hit bottom.

Leave her be.

[gardenista]

33. You might want to visit another of the rooms. AlAnon

Do not endanger your sobriety.

Your sister needs to take the first step before you can help her.

Until she does that sincerely, you walk a fine line with her.

[hickman1937]

34. You said that she was your "shining bright idol".

Please remember that there's only about 10% of your sister left right now. The rest of her is inhabited by a voracious monster who's one goal it to stay active. It is a filthy, sneaky, crafty disease that can't be cured. The only known treatment is total sobriety which is an uphill climb for a long time and she's the only one that can decide to take the steps or not. I honor you for wanting to help, but you have to draw a line in the sand and stick to it. She detoxes, stays sober and goes to meetings or you dump her, drunk, at a hospital ER and don't take her calls, or her doctors calls, until she's got 6 months sober. It's tough and she may end up in very degrading circumstances, or even die. The monster in her doesn't care about destroying your marriage or hurting your kids. You can't get her back from her disease. She has to come back

[rhino47]

37. That is exactly the point I made to her incase worker.

Beth was really really charming .I could see it.I warned every nurse dr therepist that she was a psychologist.I warned of her true illness of manic depression.I found out that she had a possible pschotic disorder.
I sat there and made her tell the truth as her in case worker asked her questions.
As soon as I saw the charming little girl lost act coming on I had a pretty bad feeling this might be a lost cause.

[China_cat]

35. She has to hit bottom

before she's going to want help. Moving in with you is not going to be bottom for her. You love your sister, that's clear, and it's going to hurt like hell, but I really think you have to say no. At least until she's been through detox and shown some committment to helping herself.

[rhino47]

36. I had her committed today.

After she blew off the AA meeting last night because she was drunk.I decided to have her put in a lock down unit.I found her at a motel.At first it was against her will.She told me she wanted RR not AA.She promised me she would go to meetings 4 times a day and on and on.She was brutal.I stated there was no way I am having her detoxed in my house in front of my kids.
I also told her it was not safe for her to do it at my house.It took her car away from her.
I sat there and told her it was a waiting game.Every excuse in the book game up.(but ive failed 4 times in a hospital setting because it is not like real life etc)
She tried the contrite approach.She was sorry.I was right in saying she needed help.Yes she would get help.I stood firm.I killed me.I really killed me.I called every expert I could find before I went there.I told her this.They and you all said the same thing.I wanted so badly to have ONE person to tell me it would be okay to "help" her.I knew that it wasn`t.I held firm.
So after awhile I simply told her that it was a waiting game.I was not going anywhere and neither was she.
We have had an uncle.Lawyer for the government.Cornell/Harvard grad.Brilliant man.Died last year a homeless drunk.Alone.I asked her if she wanted to be this generations Uncle Art.

[crispini]

38. ((( HUG )))

Good luck. You are doing your best in a tough situation.

[henslee]

40. You love her. And that's a good thing for her. Hang in there.

[prolesunited]

41. I can't imagine how hard it was for you today

No matter what happens, you did the right thing and found the strength that so few of us ever have to summon.

Thank you for letting us know what happened, and perhaps your story will help save another life as well.

I wish both you and your sister find peace. :hug:

[rhino47]

43. Thank you prolesunited!

Your compassion combined with firm conviction was very inspiring to me.
Honestly this sounds weird but I have always remembered writen word over spoken words.Some of the posts here literally ran through my mind during the hours of waiting.
"Once she has her foot in the door, let the enabling begin. Given you and your husband's histories, you would be VERY susceptible to that." Did run through my mind today.It helped me NOT to let her get her foot in the door.
She did get a motel room.

[prolesunited]

46. I'm glad those words helped you

To be honest, any time I'm able to help eases the guilt I feel about my brother. I may not have been able to help him, but if my words or actions can help anyone else, it really means a lot to me, so thanks for sharing that.

You were so incredibly courageous today. I really do hope that things work out for you and your family.

[China_cat]

47. I know how much that had to have hurt.

But you did the right thing. For her even more than for you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

49. That is good

best wishes to both of you..of course, it is all up to her..now and in the future...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

50. Been there.

Hugs to you. You did what you could.

[graywarrior]

42. She needs professional help, and fast.

You're too close to the situation. If she doesn't want help, she won't get it. Sounds like she needs to hit bottom without your help.
Family members do not make good sponsors.

[jobycom]

44. Sounds like you've made the right decision. Good for you.

I've got an alcoholic sister, too. My parents kept trying to save her. As a result, she sucked away their retirement, left them with her children, and is still unemployable hooked up with the latest unemployed alcoholic boyfriend who will steal more from them. Part of the reason I moved away from my home town and state was to get away from the whole situation. My parents refused to kick her out or cut her off, and I refused to let them suck my life away with it. Yes, there is a heavy guilt associated with my decision.

But, I've also been on the other end. My parents, wonderful people, tried to "save" a couple of foster kids, who came to live with us when I was five, and my sister three. One brother was a sociopath. He was an alcoholic by his early teens. My parents tried to show him they loved him, and that he was equal to the rest of us. He used that, in ways I wouldn't describe on a public board.

There is no question he is the reason my sister is an alcoholic, and that she has grown up the way she has.

So please, for your childrens' sake more than yours, stick to the advice people have given you. Your sister has her own mind. She may do painful things to it, and with it, but don't make your guilt and pain your family's downfall. She made her decisions. She does not belong in your house, with your children, no matter how "cured" she seems to be. Your children can't defend themselves against her influence. I'm sure you know all the evidence that alcoholism is hereditary (maybe genetically or maybe environmentally, but either way, the evidence is there). That means your children already have one strike against them. Don't let your sister be their second strike. Or their third.

You just can't know the future consequences it would have on your children. Or you. Put them first. And good luck. I think having her committed is a bold and wonderful step, and I hope she recovers and thanks you for it. If she doesn't, always remember that she, not you, is to blame.

You are a better sister than I am a brother. Or son. But I am trying hard to be a good parent, instead.

[rhino47]

45. Thank you for your support.

I can not say I am a better sister or daughter then you though.I looked at my husband`s tired eyes today after he went through all this today and am determined NEVER to do that to him again.I looked him dead straight in the eyes and told him I choose him.
I know though today was hell that it is just the beginning.If I let it be the beginning.I think I am going to have to brace myself to ending it.

[Generic Brad]

51. I Have No Advice

My heart goes out to you. This is one of those situations where there is no right answer. If there was a silver bullet answer to situations like this, it would be easy to give advice. But I am afraid anything I recommend will come off as flippant and possibly insensitve.

I only hope that somehow your sister finds a way to overcome her addiction.

[rhino47]

52. Hi Generic Brad Welcome to DU !!

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: