A marijuana question

[hedgehog]

First of all, I think all drugs should be legalized because enforcing drug laws is costing us all way too much money. But the rush to canonize marijuana as the perfect drug just doesn't make sense to me. I know that no one has ever overdosed, that it helps cancer patients etc, etc. It's just that all drugs, legal or not, prescription or over the counter have side effects. It doesn't make sense that marijuana doesn't have some drawbacks. So what are they?

[EstimatedProphet]

1. Sure it does. It makes you fat from eating Doritoes and pizza

And, it can give you stomach cramps from laughing.

[Heidi]

13. You didn't hear _that_ in DARE, didja, my friend?

:rofl: :spray:

You and TheProphetess _must_ come to Switzerland. Really. :hug:

[hedgehog]

16. I love DARE

It's how me and the kids keep up on all the latest drug slang.

[Heidi]

29. That proves that DARE is good for _something_.

Besides just suckin' up tax dollars, I mean.

[PassingFair]

89. I coached a bunch of kids in a problem solving competition...

they were working on a problem in my basement, most of them were 4th graders.
They were SUPPOSED to be making moose antlers out of hangers.

When I went down to check on them, I found that they had taken the hollow tubes from the "pants hangers" and made fake crack pipes and marijuana pipes and cigarettes and cigars.

They had recently completed a D.A.R.E. course in their elementary school.

I brought the "paraphernalia" into the school principal and told him what I thought about the D.A.R.E. programs effectiveness for 4th grade suburban kids.

Ha Ha.

My daughter thought that every guy she didn't personally know that walked by the school was gonna try to "hook" her on heroin.

Here in white bread world, D.A.R.E. was an INTRODUCTION to drugs. Stupid and silly. But the principal and I got a laugh outta their "creativity"!

[HughBeaumont]

74. DARE = Drugs Are Really Enjoyable

[EstimatedProphet]

26. Nope, that one's from experience

And I'd love to come to Switzerland!

[Heidi]

30. Well, alrighty, then.

I swear to goddess, the fat wrens in our garden, feasting on hemp and sunflower birdseed, ingest more legal THC than Americans. It's a sad, sad thing.

Ya'll come on over. I can think of few people with whom we'd rather hang out. (I make great homemade pizza, by the way. :evilgrin: )

[EstimatedProphet]

33. See? Even the wrens get fat!

:)

[Heidi]

38. It's from the sunflower seeds, I'm tellin' ya.

They're _packed_ with fatty oils. :rofl:

[The Doctor.]

43. Happy wrens!

When people try to grow outdoors over here, they have to take special precautions. Deer are known to go miles out of their way to eat hemp plants... rabbts love the stuff too.

Hey... I've been seriously considering moving to Switzerland, can I PM you as a potential resource?

[Heidi]

44. You're welcome to PM me,

though I'm not sure how much help I'd be. I'm an American living and working here, married to a Swiss citizen (Call Me Wesley at DU). :hi:

[William Bloode]

71. Seeds only contain minute trace amounts of thc.

It's on the order of around .001%. Nothings gettin' high of seeds. Not being condescending, i just don't want some poor person too get a headache trying to get high from them. ;)

[Oeditpus Rex]

60. D.A.R.E.

Drugs

Are

Real

Expensive



:rofl:



(I heard that from a kid who went through the obligatory D.A.R.E. program in school.)

[ET Awful]

68. A friend of mine used to have that on a bumper sticker, had the

D.A.R.E. logo and the whole works.

[DBoon]

59. There is another bad side effect

I'd tell you but I just forgot.

Now where are the rest of those Doritos?

[LiberalAndProud]

93. Do you have any idea what we were just talking about?

Me either.

[ProfessorGAC]

98. I Don't Even Know Where We Are!

I don't even know who i am. How did i end up in this thread?
The Professor

[emmajane67]

2. It can trigger mental illness.

I have seen it many times.
Always the same recipe:
- young male
- heavy weed smoker
- first love dumps him (or other equally traumatic life event)
equals - short stay in hospital and ongoing problems.

Most people I know who use it are fine and dandy, professional, happy, well balanced. But the sad stories are there, although more awareness and openess about such possibilities would be great, i think. And more help when the bad times hit, but don't get me started on that right now...

[alkaline9]

6. Don't you see this happen just as often to non-smokers too?

I mean, has there been a study on this? Or is it just your personal observance? There are lots of chemically imbalanced people out there... and I'm not claiming that weed will make these people more stable... but does it actually do any harm?

[skygazer]

9. Bwahahahahahaha

You are kidding, right? I mean, this sort of thing happens to those who don't smoke weed, who drink, who don't drink, who take vitamins, who don't take vitamins.....

Please provide some documentation for this fascinating theory.

[LostinVA]

21. giggle

[ghostsofgiants]

27. First lesson...

Correlation does not equal causation.

[Heidi]

31. Being _born_ can trigger mental illness. (nt)

[hedgehog]

37. Some information downthread backs you up

It may be less of a trigger than a case of mentally ill people self medicating once they come across marijuana. Since schizophrenia emerges so often in the young adult years when people start using, it would make sense that people would balme one on the other as well.

[Dora]

45. Mental illness will surface even without drug abuse.

It's illogical to blame marijuana for "triggering" something that already exists. Schizophrenia usually occurs in males, and it usually surfaces in late adolescence or early adulthood. It is strictly correlative coincidence, not a causative factor, that many people are also experimenting with drugs at that time of life.

[skygazer]

58. This reminds me of something from Huckleberry Finn

Huck's trying to get out of something (once again) and makes up a story about someone who's sick. Only he gets pinned down when asked what it is so he says, "Mumps. A new kind."

"How's it a new kind?"
"Because it's mixed up with other things."
"What other things?"
"Well, measles, and whooping-cough, and erysiplas, and consumption, and yaller janders, and brain-fever, and I don't know what all."
"My land! And they call it the MUMPS?"
...
"That's what it starts with."
"Well, ther' ain't no sense in it. A body might stump his toe, and take pison, and fall down the well, and break his neck, and bust his brains out, and somebody come along and ask what killed him, and some numskull up and say, 'Why, he stumped his toe.'"

[emmajane67]

97. This is not scientific, just personal observation.

Bear in mind I came from a country with *extremely* high use and availability of weed.
I stand by my theory too. And that's all it is, a theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(pharmacology)#Co-occurrence_of_mental_illness
Info from wikipedia. I haven't had time to research this a lot but would like to. Maybe I could help someone in the future.
I don't believe the people I have witnessed have problems in this way would have ended up in as bad a way if they had not been heavy users of weed at a very young age.
I am talking about young men who are chronic smokers from age 14 or so, then several years on have a trigger situation, a lack of resources to deal with their stress and emotions and everything turns pear shaped.
These are people I have been very close to, it is not just general, casual observations about people I rode the bus with once or twice. In most cases I was heavily involved, as a friend, in their recovery.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying weed is bad. That would make me an enormous hypocrite. I just think there are some people who shouldn't use it, like any other drug. It is just a shame in most of these cases the use started so young, with so little info and support that it all got very ugly.
Maybe it is weed that is to blame, maybe it is the lack of mental health services for young men (and they have all been men that I have seen) that is to blame, maybe it is the stereotype of men not being able to express emotion that is to blame, Maybe it is ill informed 14 year olds getting into drugs that is to blame, maybe it is a predisposition to mental illness that is to blame, maybe it as all of the above...I don't know.
But I don't think it is a theory that can simply be dismissed out of hand.

[Caution]

100. tHis is not a "theory" it is pure conjecture.

Theories require evidence. You have none. (Circumstantial and hearsay do not constitute scientific evidence).

This is the same kind of "theory" that people use to promote homeopathy. "It worked for my cousin, therefore it works"

no, there are a million other reasons that this kind of crap happens to people. Correlation does not equal Causation.

[kick-ass-bob]

110. drugs can speed up an already existing mental illness, not cause one.

In the process of trying to self medicate (to stop the voices or whatever) the brain succumbs to the mental illness faster than one would without the drugs - but they don't cause them. (And I'm not sure marijuana is one of those drugs, even.)

[alkaline9]

3. The only side effect I can imagine would be...

...when it is smoked... bad for lungs. But there are tools to vaporize it for inhalation too. Aside from that I don't believe there is any study that would ever truthfully show any adverse side effects. If anyone knows of such findings, or solid evidence to dispute that, please step forward.

[Ron Green]

4. Keeps you from doing other things you ought to be doing;

that is, if you're smoking it every day. I believe we have a certain amount of cognitive work to do over our lifetime, and staying toasted all the time takes the place of that.

However, on the weekend . . . :smoke:

[alkaline9]

19. who is to say what we ought to be doing anyway?

From personal experience, I'm more lazy about certain things when I'm NOT high! For example, even cleaning the house is fun when you're baked. I'm not advocating having a 24 hour high, but with all the stuff we HAVE to do in life, doing it with a smile sure does make life a little better for everyone.

On the cognitive end of things, I have some of my best ideas when I'm under the influence... it seems that I can begin to think outside the box, so to speak.

[Ron Green]

61. My experience is that idea is a trap.

Throughout my working/doping/thinking life, I've been both convinced and disabused of the notion that being high helps with work or creativity. I've come to the conclusion that it can make ROUTINE things less tedious, but things that require real creative change are hindered, in my opinion. For example, I played music high for years and was always convinced I was playing better because of it. Instead, I was simply playing more relaxed, and therefore played better, but only because I was not growing in the music or taking any real chances. For that to happen, I had to stop smoking weed at the gig. When I was able to approach the music straight and sober, the real creativity came back.

Just my experience.

[alkaline9]

69. That could be true...

...but I do think that regardless whether you're doing something from instinct or not you are still improving. I believe that we tend to use different parts of our brain while intoxicated. It kind of mellows some parts, and forces others to adapt and get a good workout.

[LiberalAndProud]

94. How often do you remember them?

And are they really as good as you thought they were when you were hi?

[hobo_baggins]

34. Smoking actually makes me more motivated

which is why the man doesn't want us to have it

[hedgehog]

39. Actually, that's my theory about tobacco

It keeps you working and it kills you off before you collect a pension!

[William Bloode]

73. Not all together true.

If you are smoking something indica or indica dominant yes it does make you lazy. This is due to higher concentrations of cbd, and cbn, along with thc. Pure sativas on the other hand are like speed weed, and make you want to do more instead of less. Sativas also don't leave you feeling tired and burnt out after the high wears off. This is due to the fact that sativa has much lower ratios of other less desirable cannaboids such as cdb, and cbn.

[Beetwasher]

5. There are Some Adverse Affects from SMOKING Pot

That are attributable to inhaling smoke.

However, all in all, marijuana is very benign. Marijuana is NOT a drug, it's a plant. Do all PLANTS have side effects?

There may be other side effects from long term chronic use, however there are no truly definitive studies that document exactly wha they are. For instance, the is some evidence that long term chronic use leads to low sperm counts and short term memory loss, but nothing conclusive.

[alkaline9]

7. With overpopulation problems, some would say a low sperm count...

...would save the planet! Therefore weed is our savior! haha (well at least MY savior!)

[hedgehog]

12. Hey - don't confuse natural with benign

Plenty of poisons come directly from plants. Perhaps I should have specified that at this point we've pretty much identified the active ingedient in maijuana and ansked about that except I can't remember the name - THC?

[alkaline9]

14. yes, glorious THC! *sigh*

[Beetwasher]

17. I'm Not, But You Shouldn't Confuse A Plant (Marijuana) W/ A Drug

Yes, it's THC...

[crispini]

84. Lots of plants are the sources of drugs.

I think it'd be more accurate to call marijuana a herb. And, like many medicinal herbs, it has active ingredients which have drug-like effects. Many herbs can have bad side effects; some plants can kill you. There's no grounds at all for saying that just because something is natural, as opposed to man-made, it's automatically safer. Anything can be dangerous, especially if taken in excess.

[Beetwasher]

87. Heh?

I didn't say that. Indeed, lot's of plants are sources of drugs, so what? That doesn't make the plant a drug.

He said all drugs have side effects and lumped MJ in w/ them. I pointed out that Marijuana is not a drug, it's a plant. So? I was pointing out the flaw in his logic that 1. all drugs have side effects and 2. since MJ is a drug, it must have a side effect. It's flawed reasoning, since A. "1" is not even demonstrably true and B. MJ is not a drug anyway.

[crispini]

101. Well, you're sort of bandying semantics, is my point.

Yes, you are technically correct, a plant is not the same thing as a drug. There are many plants that do not have any kind of active ingredients in them. BUT, for those plants that HAVE active ingredients in them, often times the active ingredient is the same as a drug. For example, willow bark has salicin in it-- the same ingredient as aspirin -- and presumably, any side effects of salicin in aspirin would also be the same side effects of salicin in willow bark.

[Beetwasher]

103. Umm, No

I'm not bandying semantics. I'm reitterating the point I was originally making, that his logic was flawed, and correcting his misunderstanding about marijuana being a drug.

[crispini]

104. Definition of "drug"

From Merriam-Webster:
a substance used as a medication or in the preparation of medication c according to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (1) : a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary (2) : a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease (3) : a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body (4) : a substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part, or accessory of a device

By that definition, I would say, that marijuana, willow bark, comfrey, and other herbs with an active ingredient count as drugs.

[Beetwasher]

108. So?

The active ingredients could be considered drugs, but marijuana is a plant. What's so hard to understand about that? I never claimed THC wasn't a drug. It can be considered a drug. Marijuana is NOT a drug any more than a willow tree is a drug.

[ghostsofgiants]

8. High doses can interfere with sleep...

It can precipitate psychosis in those who already have psychotic endencies (will intensify schizophrenic symptoms that already exist, for example).

Reduces activity in the body's immune system.

Those are the ones listed as accurate in my behavioral pharmacology textbook.

[hedgehog]

10. This answer suggests that the active ingredient is powerful

and needs further study. I'm not saying that marijuana is bad, just that it deserves some respect. It's too bad that all the hysteria is preventing some decent study and analysis to separate fact from fiction. My husband insists that it enlarges men's breasts, but I'm not certain that's not just drug war propaganda. At the very least, it seems to be a safer drug than alcohol.

[anarch]

11. well, breathing any kind of smoke isn't particularly good for you

Other than that, I would think any deleterious effects would be negligible, and certainly outweighed by its documented medicinal uses.

Overindulgence in pretty much anything is bad for you, though. I've never understood how a plant that grows out of the ground can be outlawed.

[hedgehog]

15. Again, this thread isn't asking about drug control.

It's strictly focused on asking what, if any, are the actual side effects to the active ingredient found in the marijuana plant. There may be only minor problems. For example, as far as I know, the "stomach bleeding" associated with taking ibuprofen turns out to be associated with massive overdoses. On the other hand, take too much acetaminophen (Tylenol) with alcohol and you might wipe out your liver.

[anarch]

22. side effects...

I guess that depends on what you are considering to be the primary effect. If your primary goal is to get high as a monkey, the side effects include the propensity to eat a whole bag of Doritos, and temporary short-term memory problems. Over time, and if you overindulge in both pot and food, I guess it can make you fat and lazy.

If you are using it as a medicine, for pain or to increase appetite or whatever other things it can be used for, the side effects include getting high as a monkey: dizziness, confusion, distortion of sensory perceptions, feelings of euphoria, sometimes paranoia, etc. And like I said before, if you are smoking it, it really isn't good for your lungs.

[GirlinContempt]

62. Well, poppies come out of the ground....

Just sayin'

[XemaSab]

65. Ditto for Coca plants, mushrooms,

Peyote, Ephedra, Datura, Salvia divinorum, and so on.

San Pedro cactus, on the other hand, comes out of a pot on my front porch. :D

[Moochy]

96. There was a cool show on San Pedro Cactus

a shamanic healer in Peru made up a batch of cactus juice and apparently one of the effects is hyperdilation of the pupils, and thus nightvision, along with hallucinations.

The patient and everyone present then took tobacco water into their nostrils, and their noses started running streams of mucous. Just like the animalistic andean stone faces, carved with snot streaming out of their noses.

Apparently the theory is that civilization itself had alot to do with the religious control that the priest/shaman class was able to use on the population using a ritual center and psychedelic drugs.

[anarch]

66. so does coca, for that matter

It still offends my sensibilities that people can be locked up for having certain kinds of plants grow on their property.

Think about how many drugs either arise naturally or are easily derived from various flora: poppies, certain kinds of mushrooms, certain cacti, cannabis, coca...there's probably a bunch of others I don't even know about.

Oh, well. I'm pretty much in the "stop Prohibition entirely" camp, myself.

[skygazer]

18. Okay, let me answer this in all seriousness

People have been smoking pot for a long time now. Some people have smoked huge amounts of weed, others have been very casual users. I personally have known countless people who smoked and I've never heard of anyone suffering any side effects beyond some dry mouth issues and the munchies, even those who smoked an amazing amount of pot. It could be argued that some of those people were pretty non-productive - my view is that you can overdo anything and it will make you rather non-productive but as for health issues, I've never seen any significant ones.

It would make sense that ingesting any kind of smoke is going to cause some damage to the lungs - the damage caused by pot seems to be far less than that of cigarette or cigar smoke and no one has ever correlated it with cancer. And yes, it has been studied.

One poster noted that it can cause problems in people who are already prone to some neurological disorders like schizophrenia - I would say, if you don't have those disorders, you're probably going to be okay.

Bottom line is, the stuff has been around a long time, there HAVE been many, many studies of the effects and the only time serious adverse reactions have been shown have been in those tests in which primates have been exposed to amounts that would be impossible for a human to ingest purposely (and in which the results may have been exagerrated anyway).

[cleofus1]

20. this is an actual document of what pot will do to you

[alkaline9]

24. cute song :-)

nt

[Swamp Rat]

99. Don't forget Fat Freddy's Cat!

:D



http://www.ripoffpress.com/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Probably the best study on the net that addresses your questions

http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/marimed/index.html

There's lots of drawbacks to non moderate use

[hedgehog]

32. I took a quick look at the study - some interesting points -

Smoking marijuana does expose the lungs to the same toxins that smoking tobacco does - I was discounting that problem but I quess we all should reconsider that information since we are considering the effects of a lifetime of smoking marijuana. Practically speaking, that's the way people will be using this drug. I had heard elsewhere that smoking marijuana has an accelerated effect since the smoke is held in the lungs longer. I have no idea if that's true or not.

Oddly enough, marijuana and tobacco both effect dopamine levels. My guess is that the brain takes a harder hit from nicotine since it appears to be much more addictive. I do think we need to be respectful of anything that goes near our brains. Again, it doesn't mean marijuana's bad, just that it needs to be treated with respect. Having a beer doesn't mean you have to get blind drunk.

I guess my point is that while I think the War on Drugs is a farce, that doesn't mean that drugs are harmless. Even marijuana needs to be looked at and used properly.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. Tylenol has more hazards and you can buy ten bottles today

I've never known of anyone but for maybe Bob Marley who consumed marijuana in the same quantities as cigarettes

[hedgehog]

40. Do you remember what he died from?

I know he died young.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. brain cancer

[hedgehog]

42. I remembered it was cancer

It was melanoma, not lung cancer, so smoking probably had nothing to do with it.

[pitohui]

57. he was shot in the head when younger or so i heard

i always felt this had something to do w. the brain cancer but maybe i'm just superstitious

[justabob]

50. one thing though about smoking pot vs tobacco

Pot does expose the lungs to many of the same toxins, but most folks don't smoke 20-40 joints a day (1-2 packs). I think I have also read that pot is not bad for asthma sufferers... does anyone here know about that? If pot is not harmful while tobacco is have they discovered why since many of the same toxins are found in the smoke?

[cleofus1]

25. another side effect is the appearance of "hippie poster"

[EstimatedProphet]

28. Here's a more thorough and serious discussion that my first response

From Erowid: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml

EFFECTS LIST #
The effects of smoking Cannabis are usually lighter than those of many other recreational psychoactive substances. People are generally capable of carrying out normal actions and activities while high.

POSITIVE

* mood lift, euphoria
* laughter
* relaxation, stress reduction
* creative, philosophical or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily
* increased appreciation of music. More aware of, deeper connection to music.
* increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)
* change in experience of muscle fatigue. Pleasant body feel. Increase in body/mind connection.
* pain relief (headaches, cramps)
* reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this)
* boring tasks or entertainment can become more interesting or funny

NEUTRAL

* general change in consciousness (as with many psychoactives)
* increased appetite, snacky-ness
* slowness (slow driving, talking)
* change in vision such as sharpened colors or lights
* closed-eye visuals (somewhat uncommon)
* tiredness, sleepiness, lethargy
* stimulation, inability to sleep (less common)
* blood shot eyes (more common with certain varieties of cannabis and inexperienced users)
* mouth dryness, sticky-mouth (varies with strain)
* interrupts linear memory. Difficulty following a train of thought.
* cheek, jaw, facial tension / numbness (less commonly reported)
* racing thoughts (especially at high doses)
* increased emotional impact of music
* Time sense altered: cars seem like they are moving too fast, time dilation and compression are common at higher doses

NEGATIVE

* nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or other psychoactives
* coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
* difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of frequent use
* racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
* mild to severe anxiety
* panic attacks in sensitive users or with very high doses (oral use increases risk of getting too much)
* headaches
* dizziness, confusion
* lightheadedness or fainting (in cases of lowered blood pressure)
* paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
* possible psychological dependence on cannabis
* clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses
* can precipitate or exacerbate latent or existing mental disorders

WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS

* mild to moderate, non life-threatening withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. These may last for 1-6 weeks after cessation of use and can include anxiety, anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure), headaches, general unease/discomfort, difficulty sleeping, and a desire to smoke pot. Severity of symptoms is related to frequency of use and individual sensitivity.
* slight loss of appetite
* finding non-stoned life a bit dull, increased boredom

DESCRIPTION #
The primary effects sought by those using cannabis recreationally are euphoria, relaxation, and changes in perception. Effects vary depending on dosage, with effects at low doses including a sense of well-being, mild enhancement of senses (smell, taste, hearing), subtle changes in thought and expression, talkativeness, giggling, increased appreciation of music, increased appetite, and mild closed-eye visuals. At higher doses, sense of time is altered, attention span and memory are frequently affected, and thought processes and mental perception may be significantly altered.

One of the most common comments about cannabis effects is that it enhances the appreciation of sensory experiences without substantially changing the perceptual experience. Many people attribute their love of music, appreciation for new forms of music, and ability to play instruments to the use of cannabis.

At overly high doses, the effects are often likened to other psychedelics and panic and dysphoria (bad mood) are common. High doses, especially when taken orally, can sometimes result iin difficult experiences and trips to the emergency room in response to racing heart, extreme confusion, short term memory loss, and panic. After high dose experiences, especially among those who are not regular users, after effects can last 1-2 days.

Paradoxically, although cannabis is normally considered a relaxant / depressant, its effects are stimulating in a substantial portion of those who use it. While some people us it to help them sleep, others cannot sleep for 3-6 hours after their last smoke.

CAUTION & DISCLAIMER #
Erowid's effects information is a summary of data gathered from users, research, and other resources. This information is intended to describe the range of effects people report experiencing. Effects may vary dramatically from one person to another based on a variety of factors such as body chemistry, age, gender, physical health etc.

[liberalitch]

36. Huh, what were we talking about?

[sshaw1980]

46. regular user for

30 years - none noted... i'm in great shape and can keep up easily with people half my age...

i wish they would legalize it but i feel i'll be long in the grave if that day ever comes...

go figure booze is legal and leads to more violence and sorrow known to man... :shrug:

[Taverner]

47. It slows down your thinking

and it does rob you of your ambition. This does not fit in with the prime directive. If you notice, all of the legal drugs are stimulants (caffeine, nicotine, amphetamines) and even minor depressants like codine are banned.

But sometimes slow thinking can be helpful. Personally I think everyone should be high in rush hour traffic...

[In_The_Wind]

48. The marijuana drawback answer = Munchies ~

[EstimatedProphet]

49. OK, I need to get stoned and watch your smilies

[catmandu57]

52. I am stoned

I've done more this morning than usual, got the house cleaned up, but I not totaled out, moderation in everything.

[In_The_Wind]

54. I've collected a lot more smilies to share with DU ...

After the two weeks I've been through I concur smokin' time is here!
This past Friday afternoon I received a phone call. There were two open building permits ~ since 1980 (no one noticed them when I bought this house 11 years ago). The building inspector just left and those two permits passed. I now have C of O's for ( 25 year old) new construction. In addition to that I just found out that I need a permit for my new wood stove and my 8 year old jacuzzi ... right ~ just what I need - more permits and more inspectors wandering through my life. yea

It's definitely time for a break!

[catmandu57]

72. Kick it back

Put a nice buzz on, I've some kind of world trance music on, when my wife gets home she's going to take one listen and know I'm buzzed.

[Lochloosa]

51. There is a movie available that discusses all the cons. Link below

[EstimatedProphet]

53. Yay! I love that movie!

[Lochloosa]

67. You would

[Blue_Tires]

91. the musical was great, too

[JVS]

55. It can get you fucked up, which isn't good behind the wheel

[RandomKoolzip]

56. I was a heavy pot smoker, but I also had anxiety.

And pot would trigger massive panic attacks that felt like heart attacks. It isn't for everyone. Like an above poster stated, if you already have an existing psychological condition, it's possible that pot will make it worse.

I stopped smoking pot a few years ago because of those panic attacks. Now I'm totally clean and I miss getting high, but it's worth it to keep my sanity.

[DBoon]

63. Actually I think it does increase the heart rate

no big deal when you are 19, but I read a story about 50-year old men suffering heart attacks as a result - there was some correlation there that was significant, and the hypothesis is that the heart rate increase pushed a vulnerable individual over the edge.

[GirlinContempt]

64. Alcohol increases my risk of a panic attack

Pot started making me just fall asleep after about age 16 or 17, but when I started getting panic attacks I noticed that alcohol increased my symptoms, possibly even triggered them at times.
I know the heart attack feeling all too well. Good choice with the no pot. Ever notice anything with booze?

[RandomKoolzip]

76. I don't drink, either.

Totally clean, sober, boring, etc. for seven years.

When I quit pot, I quit EVERYTHING, cold turkey (I was a two pack a day smoker, speedfreak, three-fisted drinking, caffiene-snarfing, pill-popping, uh, loser).

[GirlinContempt]

78. I still drink

I just have to be careful about it. So you did find that stuff affected your anxiety?

[RandomKoolzip]

79. Yeah.

The rush of intoxication (ANY kind of intoxication except Xanax) mimicked the "impending heart attack" feeling that earmarked a panic attack. Also, there's the constant low-level "anticipatory" anxiety that is common to panic attack sufferers, which, even with a pleasant wine buzz on, would still be exacerbated and annoying.

It got so bad-even after quitting everything- that I was nearly agoraphobic. Most of 2000 and 2001, I was a hermetic wreck, afraid of car trips, going to the movies, going to restaurants, looking at the stars, thinking of air travel, you name it...any kind of stimulus was enough to kick that anticipatory shit into gear. Had I been smoking weed during this time, I probably would be in a sanitarium right now.

It didn't help that my then-girlfriend decided for me that I shouldn't be on any kind of anti-anxiety medication or anti-depressants (she thought it would be "weak" if I became "dependent" on any kind of medication) and that "panic attacks" are a phenomenon that sounds mushy, vague, and a wee bit kooky to most people (sympathy was hard to come by, even amongst friends). Most people don't realize that you feel intense physical symptoms during an attack and dismiss the whole thing as neurotic bullshit or fakery. I managed to get a prescription for Xanax only after pleading with my GF and convincing her that I would only use it in emergencies.

It's been a couple of years since I had an attack (the last major one was on 9/11/01). I pretty much kicked it via breathing techniques and jettisoning unhealthy foods (red meat, caffiene) and going on Paxil and Lexapro in 2002 after sliding into serious depression (that's another story altogether!)

[GirlinContempt]

80. Wow

:hug:
"panic attacks" are a phenomenon that sounds mushy, vague, and a wee bit kooky to most people (sympathy was hard to come by, even amongst friends). Most people don't realize that you feel intense physical symptoms during an attack and dismiss the whole thing as neurotic bullshit or fakery.

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I'm so glad you're doing so much better. Gotta pic of the girl so I can knee her should I ever encounter her? :P

[RandomKoolzip]

82. I married her.

Tough love, baby. Sometimes it works!

:hug:

[GirlinContempt]

83. I'd still knee her

Naw maybe not, if you married her she's gotta be pretty ok, aside from that

[noonwitch]

70. It can cause you to lose motivation

Especially if you start smoking it when you are still a kid.

[democracyindanger]

75. Short term memory...um...memory... something. What?

[alarcojon]

77. OK, so it's not the "perfect drug"

but such a being does not exist. It's a LOT closer than the officially sanctioned drugs alcohol and tobacco.

I do believe it is possible to develop a strong psychological dependance on it, and even some short-lived, mild physical withdrawal symptoms. But these are due to ABUSE of the drug.

Moderation in all things - including moderation :smoke:

[Scout]

81. as I sit here passing the pipe with DH...

coughing occurs sometimes.

You can develop a cough if you smoke too much, but then stop smoking or just cut back and the cough disappears.

Gives you munchies and makes you sleepy.

[Throd]

85. Where did I put my goddamned house keys?

Oh yeah, they're in my other pocket...

[WindRavenX]

86. marijuana has been nothing but a blessing to me

For me, it's a great way to relax and to help me sleep--things I've had problems with in the past years due to some severe family issues.

Like most things, marijuana's effects depend on the person. As many in this thread has attested, pot can increase anxiety rather than reduce it; that's just due to the person's unique chemical balance. Alcohol makes me anxious and paranoid, whereas for some it is a relaxent. I don't do alcohol. But I do love me my mj :smoke:

[struggle4progress]

88. It's a "gateway drug": many users later take up tobacco. eom

[mitchum]

90. That I keep running out of it is the only drawback

[Kali]

92. wwwuuuuuttt????

oh man I forgot what the question was.


Seems to have some affect on motivation/ambition. Not judging - could be a pro or a con, just sayin'.

[Heidi]

95. Some answers from the late Bill Hicks:

http://www.youtube.com/w/Bill-Hicks%3A-Nothing-Goes-Right?v=-8jh1Q9xQU4&search=bill%20hicks

[kedrys]

102. Thanks for the link!

:loveya: I'm home sick with a bad cold, and this cheered me up no end. I almost forgot what a freakin' *genius* Bill Hicks was.

[Heidi]

105. Sorry you're sick, kedrys.

In case you've not yet discovered it, there's _lots_ of good Bill Hicks stuff here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=%22bill+hicks%22&search_type=search_videos

[kedrys]

106. As long as The Wiley and Excellent Cat Named Ginger is doing better,

I'll get over my cold. Please give my regards to Call Me Wesley. :hi:

[Heidi]

109. Thank you for the good vibes for our boy, Ginger, kedrys.

I believe the healing energy sent by DUers was solely responsible for the untimely death of a mouse, at the hands of the much friskier Ginger-boy, just yesterday.

We'll burn some incense and getcha healin', OK? You'll be draggin' home mice before ya know it. ;)

[ComerPerro]

107. Its kinda like, ok, man, check this out, check this out. Ok, man. Its

kinda like, a, woah... It makes you, like, forget things, man... And, sometimes, it hurts your, your, your concentration. Plus, it like, makes time slow down. It does. I remember this one time we got baked at a Phish show and my friend went to the bathroom, and he came back like three hours later but it had only been five minutes, because they were still playing YEM, and ...

What were you asking?

Oh yeah. Pot. Side effects.

I can't think of any.

[hedgehog]

111. Oh , like wow*

I never expected to stir up so many replies! It seems to be a consensus that pot is OK for most folks, but an absolute no-no for some, and you shouldn't drive a car while high. The jury may still be out on long term lung damage from smoking pot.


*a lame attempt at reproducing middle America's version of a stoned hippie, c. 1966.