Better cheap car: Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla or Scion xA?

[tjdee]

I also included the Mazda 3 which I've no interest in but I'm told it's one of the good cheap cars, and the Saturn ion. I think the Scion xA is really cute but I have no taste according to my sister. And it doesn't have side curtainy things.

I've not decided what I'm going to do about my situation, but was just looking around. Seems Honda and Toyota have quite the rivalry going, is either of them actually better for some reason you've found?

My big concerns are safety and reliability.

[ContraBass Black]

1. The Honda is sportier, the Toyota is bigger.

Both are safe, efficient, and reliable. The Honda is a newer model, so you might want to wait a bit on it for it to be refined.

[tjdee]

2. Oh thank you, that helps a lot.

I still have horrible memories of being cramped into the back of a Hyundai....I don't know, a tiny little thing about 10 years ago.

I don't need a huge car by any means, but knowing the Corolla has a bit more room (which is what I guess you mean by bigger?) makes me lean in that direction.

[ET Awful]

21. The '06 Civic is much larger than the older ones.

Well worth looking at.

[barb162]

43. and the corolla has a better ride and more comfortable seats

than that Honda. We have both and for any long or short trip, I prefer the corolla

[ContraBass Black]

53. Some people like the firmer padding and tighter fit.

I haven't sat in either long enough to know about myself, but my father prefers firm seats that fit his body, while my older brother likes plusher Toyota seats.

[barb162]

65. SO drives the Honda like a sports car and likes

the firmer seats, tighter steering, road gripping etc. After being in it for a few minutes and listening to the noise (it's noisier too) I am ready for the Toyota again.

[ContraBass Black]

68. Yes, Hondas are much louder

But more responsive.

[LeftyMom]

3. Cars.com likes the Civic and the 3

http://research.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Story.jsp?year=2005§ion=bestbets&subject=bestbets&story=passenger&aff=national

The Civic has better crash test ratings (make sure to get the side curtain airbags, they add a lot of safety to a compact.)

I love my Saturn, but I have an S series, which is an older model. Still, 130K miles with no problems is a good track record, in my eyes.

I'd go with whichever one you can get the best deal on with the side curtain air bags, they're all very good cars. If your kid is still young enough to need a seat (I remember that you've got a child, but now how old) make sure to bring it with you to the test drive and check for a good fit. Also make sure the car's got a shoulder belt in the rear center and maybe a head rest, so your child can use the safest position in the car for some time to come.

[tjdee]

5. Indeed....

I have her on the end in the back now, and I'm never crazy about it...she still needs a seat for another year or so I think. They put shoulder belts in the rear center now? How cool is that?

Thank you for the link, there is always so much info on the internet it's weird sometimes to know where to start.

130K and running well is a good track record! My POS has 115+ and doesn't let me forget it. My best friend has a Saturn too (and loves it), and I think she said they have Honda engines maybe? I just checked, and the new Ion has side airbags too. When I first did the poll I didn't think so. Hmmmmmm.

How is the Saturn in the snow/ice?

[LeftyMom]

7. Mine does well on snow, not so well on ice but I don't have the tires for

it since it doesn't snow or freeze where I live.

For snow and ice, I know the Carolla does really well (at least with a stick) because my aunt in Reno has one and is really impressed with it.

PS Make sure to keep her in a booster until she passes the five step test http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm before you let her ride without a booster, no matter what the law is where you're at. You probably know that, but some parents don't realize that thier state's car seat law may be inadequate so I always try to mention it.

[tjdee]

9. Thank you, you don't know how much grief I get for keeping her

in a booster seat. She seems to like it though, and I want her to be safe, so neener neener!

I'm going to keep that link around so I can show other people,yay!

We don't get so much snow here, but we do get ice every now and again....hmmm. Thanks again!

[twenty4blackbirds]

4. minimal maintenance

second-hand Toyota Corolla still going well after 5 years.

[CanuckAmok]

6. Hondas are far more expensive to repair than Toyotas when...

no longer covered by a warranty.

Toyota uses common parts in many of their line. Meaning the same alternator can be found in a 4Runner and a Celica. This means lower overhead for aftermarket parts manufacturers, and more choice of part suppliers for consumers.

Honda's parts are generally proprietory for each model; that means if you want, say, an alternator for a 1997 Civic, you have to get that specific alternator. You can't use a '95 or '00 Civic one, or one from a '79 Accord. This means fewer aftermarket places will carry all the Honda stock required, and your cost for getting "X" part is increased, as a result.

But both are great cars. I always have at least one Toyota; they're the only manufacturer I trust completely.

[tjdee]

13. Wow, that's something I needed to know.

That's knocking the Civic down quite a bit in my head, because part of the reason I'm so bent on getting new wheels is because the maintenance on this thing is killing me. I have to throw another 200 bucks into it in the next two weeks for new brakes (even though I just got them done around Thanksgiving, whatEVER!).

I'd start to get really irritated with special parts and special this and special that. :grr:

[CanuckAmok]

17. Honda makes all their own components.

Toyota and Nissan buy some parts from sub-contractors like Nippondenso and Aisin. They do this to save costs, and as a result, they have to design certain Toyota/Nissan components areound pre-existing outsourced components. The upside is that there's far more homogeny in replaceable parts with Toyota and Nissan than with Honda, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi.

[B3Nut]

33. Honda buys from Nippondenso also

as well as II Stanley (lamps) and Hi-Lex (throttle and other cables). These firms, as well as Toyota/Subaru/Big-Three among others switch supplier Tokai Rika have plants in Battle Creek, MI. I temped at Hi-Lex years ago making Honda throttle cables, and worked at Tokai Rika for 11 years.

Honda used a different supplier for switchgear, but they use a lot of parts from those suppliers in Battle Creek. Denso (formerly Nippondenso) is one of Battle Creek's largest employers now, especially since Kellogg's is so outsourced.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan, ex-Battle Creekite

[CanuckAmok]

38. ah, then I stand corrected.

I still suspect that Honda still makes all their own major components, however, like starter motors, alternators, etc. But I guess this may have changed.

[B3Nut]

39. AFAIK

the starters and alternators were Denso parts...my '84 Accord had a Denso alternator in it, IIRC the radiator was ND as well.

Honda does like to change components often though. Aftermarket parts could be dicey, I remember having bad luck with an aftermarket thermostat in my Accord...it stuck shut! Only source of cooling was the heater core, and there I am driving down the road in winter blasting the heater to keep the engine cool but rolling down the windows so I wouldn't bake...couldn't get to a Honda shop to get a good part in it fast enough. DANG it got hot! To Honda's credit the OEM thermostat was MUCH more robust than that cheap replacement 'stat I had gotten installed. Made it worth just going to the Honda specialists to have work done, it got done right. Wasn't as cheap, but I never heard a peep from the thermostat again.

Loved that car...I should never have traded it in.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[RubyDuby in GA]

36. I own a Honda with over 200K miles on it

If you do the regular maintenance on it, you won't have problems. I've never had to replace anything except the air conditioner knob on my front panel because it cracked.

Damn, she is a fine car and I never intend to own anything but a Honda ever again.

[politicat]

8. Other: Hyundai accent or Kia Rio

Essentially the same car. Incredible warranties, highly reliable. We've had ours for 80+ K miles (it's a 2001) and it has had no problems, gets 40+ miles to the gallon, and on the emissions test last week, was within 10% of being a low emissions car on CO2, and did meet the regs on Nox and carbon monoxide.

Made with strong union labor, too. (Though in Korea - but we consider backing a strong union in Korea better than backing no union in Mexico....)

[tjdee]

10. I don't know too much about either.

Like I said above, I have really awful memories of the Hyundai...whatever they made 10 years ago, LOL. It was cramped, and it was like a toy in there. Of course, things have changed.

I'll surf over there and take a look, thanks for the suggestion...

[LeftyMom]

11. I've heard really good things about the new Sonata

One of the ladies on another board where I post (a car seat board, so I assume the safety features were impressive) test drove one and was just gushing about it. She liked it a lot better than her Impala and was considering trading in.

That's a slightly bigger car than the others you're looking at, but I think the price range is pretty similar to a civic or carolla.

[politicat]

55. Our accent is bigger than most of the Civics I've been in.

Think older Camry, not Geo Metro.

It's big enough to carry a dishwasher in the back with the back seat down; the trunk is big enough for a full set of luggage.

[MissMillie]

25. Of the people I have known to own Kia's

none of them ever had anything good to say about their cars.

[politicat]

54. My sister loves hers - no problems at all.

And she drives everywhere - lots of mileage on any vehicle she owns. She lives at the halfway point between several family members, so she does a lot of visiting.

And with a 5 year warranty, if they're having problems, it needs to go back to the dealer.

[Ally McLesbian]

60. That's one class below...

The equivalent Hyundai and Kia models to our comparison would be the Elantra and the Spectra.

If the Korean-American community weren't such a bunch of assholes, I wouldn't mind driving around in a Korean car myself.

[politicat]

70. In size, one class below is still bigger than a Civic.

As for a Corolla, I can't say as I haven't been in one in a while. Our Accent is bigger than a friend's Echo was (before she totaled it.)

I know very little about the KA community, and if it's anything like the Cuban American community (i.e. Cubans tend to be pretty reasonable and nice, but Cuban-Americans are slavering Repuke Lunatics in general), then I won't hold the KA community against the nation of origin.

[Ally McLesbian]

73. Korean-Americans

"I know very little about the KA community, and if it's anything like the Cuban American community (i.e. Cubans tend to be pretty reasonable and nice, but Cuban-Americans are slavering Repuke Lunatics in general), then I won't hold the KA community against the nation of origin."

That would indeed be very true of the Korean-American community. Los Angeles is looking more and more like Miami as a result, whereas people are fairly level-headed in Seoul (and not very approving of W's policies).

In principle, you are right in that this shouldn't be held against South Korean companies, but when (1) driving a Hyundai will make me look like a Korean-American headed for a neocon megachurch (I am indeed Asian) and (2) when Hyundai, beholden to the Korean-American community and advertising there, refuses to extend benefits to domestic partners of US employees, I do have to take an issue.

[XemaSab]

12. I crafted a fucking UNABOMBer-esquemanifesto on why you should get a civic

but then my fucking computer crashed.

To make a long story short, I've had both a Civic and a Corolla, and they are both good mechanically but the interior trim on the Toyota is all fucked up (and when I say all fucked up, I mean I have to unroll the fucking window to exit the Corolla, and having the sun visor break off while one day into a Canadian road trip in fucking Lewiston, Idaho, fucking sucks) and I'd get a Civic. But I'd also look at an Element.

[tjdee]

14. But what about what Canuck Amok says?

Did you find maintenance to cost more on a Honda (if you were out of the warranty)?
Too bad I did not get your manifesto. You probably explained all about it there.

That Corolla sounds messed up. The sun visor just broke off? I don't know if I'd be cool with those sorts of things...maybe you just got a bad one?

Elements are a bit too boxy (and expensive) for me I think. I'm going to be sporting something like a 20% interest rate and jacked up insurance rates because of my credit. I'll take a look at it though, I'm sure it's a better car/ride.

[XemaSab]

16. I think we got a dud

But the fact that such a thing as a dud EXISTS is a no-go for me. :shrug:

Even if maintanance is a little more, NOTHING broke on the Civic until the timing belt broke and the car was dead. But it was I think over 200K then.

[philosophie_en_rose]

28. I don't know if it's more expensive, because I've never had to repair.

I've had a Honda for almost ten years and I've never had to replace a major part. Ever.

[RubyDuby in GA]

37. Please see my post # 36

I love my Honda and will never own another brand of car.

[LeftyMom]

15. make sure to check insurance rates, that may help make the decision.

Civics are usually near the top of the frequently stolen cars lists, too.

[tjdee]

58. Great point...

Just googled it, seems they're all about the same (about 1 grand a year for a middle aged driver with a clean record). But that's one of the many reasons I want a "cheap" car. I'd even be happy with a used one of these, but they all hold their value pretty well.

[SoCalDem]

18. They are not really "cheap" cars these days..

Opt for a well maintained used Accord instead:)

[radwriter0555]

22. You can buy a top rated Scion, brand new, fully loaded with a 5 year

warranty for less than a used accord with no warranty and a lotta miles.

[SoCalDem]

48. Is that the boxy little car?? Looks like a grown up matchbox car?

I guess we are just so sold on our Accord.. I never want a different kind.. We have had Fords, Chevys, Pontiacs and this Accord we bought used when it was 2 yrs old has been going strong now for 12 years.. We've got just over 150L miles on it and it drives like it's brand new..We had to get it painted a few years back and the interior's showing wear, but that car might outlast both of us:)

Of course we are also proud parents of "Putt"...a 1981 Toyoya Corolla wagon..(named Putt because of the occasional backfire)

and we have a 1988 Dodge pick-up as well..

Can you tell how much we hate car payments:)

We have not had a car payment since 1993...

[radwriter0555]

49. No, it's the small one. It's so much like the european cars I got

used to while traveling.

The boxy one is their mini-van comparable and is very cool as well.

Car payments suck, but the great price and fantastic value of the Scion will make you a big fan. Check the ratings on Edmunds.com. After my very, very tall friend bought one because of the interior room, I went for a test drive and bought it the same day. Just don't bother with Miller in Culver City, that sales bitch there really tried to screw me.

I downsized from a Ford Explorer to the Scion, and even in the midst of a remodel and ongoing landscaping projects I never, ever lacked for room to stash and transport anything. I even fit 10 foot long lengths of pipe in that baby. It wasn't so small!

Great mileage, top quality, and not a boring sedan anymore!

I now have Nissan Micra and love it, but not as much as the Scion. I loved that car!!!!

[radwriter0555]

19. I LOVED my Scion Xa! It was an absolute gas, not ONE single problem

and CHEAP. I paid 12K out the door, brand new. Sold it when I left the states, 1 year later for $11,500.

Talk about holding the value! It was great, JUST loved it!

[ET Awful]

20. I'd drop the Saturn from the list and add the Nissan Sentra

I've owned two Sentras and both have been great cars. My first one went 7 years and only spent 4 hours in the shop the whole time I owned it. I finally traded it in on a new one in 2001 which went just over 4 years before needing any work, then needed some brake work done (not Nissan's fault really, but it did cost me about $1,200), I just traded it in a few weeks ago after owning it almost 5 years.

The '06 Civics are extremely nice, and quite a bit larger than the older models. They're also a great choice.

I'm not a huge fan of Toyota anymore after a very bad experience I had with them (the first new car I ever owned was a Toyota Tercel, maintained it great other than some minor body damage I never fixed. Anyway, just a couple of months outside warranty, the crankshaft broke and Toyota would do nothing for me, it ended up costing me almost $3,000 out of pocket and I was still paying on the car, I swore to never buy another Toyota after that, of course that's just me, most other people that own Toyotas love them).

The Scions look pretty cool to me, I agree that they're cute cars, but they're a Toyota product so are off my list (once again, that's a personal thing, most people that have the Scions that I've talked to love them, and they do have some very cool options available).

I traded my last Sentra in on a new Honda Element just a few weeks ago, and am loving it.

So, if you add the Nissan and drop the Saturn (I wouldn't own a GM product), I'd rank them as follows:

Nissan Sentra
Honda Civic
Mazda 3
Scion xA
Toyota Corolla

Insert Saturn here if you still want it on the list.

I'd also recommend going to http://www.edmunds.com and reading the owner reviews of the models you want to look at. Some very honest info there from real-world owners and drivers of the cars. It also has good info on what you should really be paying for one.

A final note: If you have kids or dogs, I would highly recommend taking a look at the Element. It's cavernous inside, has waterproof and stainproof seats, rubber floors that can basically just be mopped clean and handles like a small car (other than it's height which just means you have to decelerate a tad more as you go around corners). It's a fantastic car for anyone with kids or pets, or who lives in an area that gets messy weather, or who engages in outdoor sports, or . . . you get the picture :P.

[kwassa]

23. I test drove the Mazda 3 and really liked it.

[BigMcLargehuge]

24. Scion is a toyota product

[StaggerLee]

26. This is a cool thread

I'm almost up on my 2002 Civic's lease and I'm looking for other options at this point. Love my Civic. She's done me good. Might go with another Civic this time...buying not leasing.

:hi:

[speedoo]

27. I've had great experience with Nissans.

Much more so than Toyotas and Hondas. So I would definitely check out a Nissan Sentra.

I have personally put about 350,000 miles (over nearly 25 years) on Nissans without a single abnormal repair required that was not covered by warranty. "Abnormal" means something actually failed ... does not include stuff like brakes and exhaust, etc.

Also, I have seen great reviews of the Hyundai Sonata, which is more upscale and bigger than the cars you are looking at. But it might not cost any more.

One particular problem with Hondas is the regular timing belt replacement every 50K miles or so.... it is VERY expensive.

[AlabamaYankee]

29. Over 200,000 miles on my '92 Civic and going strong

We bought it because we wanted a reliable car to replace our Olds Ciera "Car from Hell", and other than routine maintenance and stuff that normally wears out it's been trouble free. Plus it's fun to drive and comfortable over long distances (950 miles in 15 hours). My son drives his '96 in DC traffic and loves it.

[Caution]

30. Mini Cooper

Only a bit more $$$ but you get so much more out of the car!

[jakefrep]

31. None of the above..

..If I were inclined to purchase a small car, I'd get a VW Golf w/TDI.

[bullwinkle428]

32. I was very impressed with a Mazda 3 I test drove recently -

I've been a loyal Honda owner for nearly 20 years, but have just begun to look around at other choices as a possible replacement for my Honda Accord (2002 model year). The Mazda has a very smooth and powerful engine for its class (2.3 liter, 160 horsepower version), and I was quite impressed with the fit and finish of the car as well.

[B3Nut]

34. Can't go wrong with a Honda or Toyota product

Good, solid vehicles. Toyota's Scion line is really attractive, very unique cars at attractive price points. The xA is a cool little car, I'm considering one to replace my '00 Escort ZX2 (which despite appalling neglect has held up like a champ, 156K on the clock and still going). The new Civics are wonderful to drive, my father-in-law just got a new EX coupe, and it is smooth and precise. But I need a hatchback for my IT work and music stuff, and as much gas mileage and as low payments as possible. The Scion xA is well-regarded, and has the proven 1.5L VVT engine from the Echo. And the prices are very reasonable.

The Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe twins should be on your list too.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[elehhhhna]

35. Check out Hyundai. I LOVE my Sonata, Hubs LOVES his Elantra.

[pitohui]

40. we've had both thru work and home

no question the toyota corolla is far more reliable and lasts longer than the civic, we do only toyota now (camry for business tho) but the old corolla just won't die

not familiar w. the scion, sorry

[ContraBass Black]

41. The Scion is a small toyota.

[jobycom]

42. They're both close, but Civic will hold value better, and IMHO

is better finished on the inside. I had an 89 Civic that I finally sold in 2001. It had 235K miles on it, but I didn't take care of it, so it was about used up. That's an early death for a Honda. Toyotas are probably better initial values, but (unless this has changed in the last couple of years) will lose value more quickly, so if you plan to sell it one day, Hondas are better.

However, if you want to keep the car forever, the Prius is amazing. You'll get much better gas mileage, and the engine only runs half the time, so there is less wear on them. I ran across a 2001 Prius with 200,000 miles on it, in under three years. It had been used as a courier. The thing ran like new. There are concerns about the batteries (7 year warranty), but otherwise, they are amazing cars. They are a little more than Civics and Corollas, but they are larger cars (about Camry size, but with more cargo space) and get much better mileage than the Civics or Corollas. (There's a lot of talk about them not getting the sticker mileage, but no car gets sticker mileage. They still get 45-50 mpg, and more if you're careful). Even a two year old Prius will probably outlast a new Civic (the ones made 2004 or later are the better ones).

Just my opinions.

[tjdee]

56. I realllly want a Prius SOOOO badly.

But my credit sucks so the interest rate and the insurance for it would probably kill me, LOL. I do want to sell whatever "cheap" car I get now, and I wouldn't mind buying a used Civic (or any of the cars listed), and I do notice that they keep their value well :grr: LOL!!

[CottonBear]

44. A Toyota is cheaper to repair and maintain (I own a 1993 Corolla).

Hondas are very expensive to maintain.

A Corolla will have interior finish issues after 8 or 10 years. Things like the interior plastic door handle on the driver's side and the headliner are things I need to replace on my 1993 model.

That said, my little Corolla saved our lives when we were run off an interstate highway and sent into an out of control, northbound spin across the median and all of the southbound lanes. The car did not tip over or roll over and, by some miracle, we skidded across the southbound lanes during a gap in the massive post-thanksgiving Sunday traffic. My husband, stepdaughter and I couldn't believe we were not dead.
:scared:
It turns out that Corollas and Camrys are among the highest rated cars in the hard to roll over category. :)

I was also hit by a deer that jumped into the drivers side of my Corolla. I was traveling about 50MPH at the time. I never saw or heard anything (I didn't even brake or swerve) except for the sound of both passenger side windows exploding into the car. The car and I survived. Car had a smashed in rear driver's side door and both of the windows were blown out. I assume the deer was killed. I didn't know a deer had hit me until I called for help to get out of the car (The car interior and I were completely covered with glass) and my friend noticed all the deer fur and hide stuck in what was left of the rear window frame.

I love my Corolla. :)

[nini]

45. Nissan Sentra

better than all of those

[CottonBear]

46. My friend drove a 1978 Corolla for 15 years. She was the second owner.

She sold it for for $500 and bought a used (1992?)Geo Prizm which was a Corolla made by Geo. That little Geo has been a workhorse!

[LisaL]

67. I have a corolla. It drives.

:shrug:

[Ryano42]

47. Chevy Vega with a 327...

Mileage might not be the best but parts for SB Chevys are the cheapest and you can definitely get to work fast. Chute optional. :)

[SteppingRazor]

50. I have a brand new Civic and I swear by the thing...

the gas mileage is unbelievable.

[amitten]

57. Ditto. Civics rock. n/t

[alarcojon]

69. Thirded

I leased an '06 Civic and so far so good.

[Digit]

51. Scraping driveways......check it out first!

I had a 1992 Honda Accord which I felt was too low to the ground and sometimes would scrape the bottom of some driveways (like my own).

I had noticed the newer cars have front grills which are even LOWER to the ground, so you might want to check it out ahead of time.

[Pale Blue Dot]

52. I have an Xa

Absolutely no problems (so far), cheap, and great gas mileage.

[Ally McLesbian]

59. Corolla = JUNK

I had an '89 as a teen and a college student, so I know what I'm talking about.

The Civic is far sexier and sportier - and marginally more affordable. And when I drove the Corolla, that's all that mattered.

I may have grown up, but I still can't deal with Corolla drivers going 20 below the limit!

As for Scion XA, it's really an Echo - a car WORSE than Corolla.

And don't forget - Toyota hired John Roberts to screw over workers disabled at work!

One more... the Civic can be had as a hybrid.

[TroubleMan]

61. Chevy Aveo.....I get over 30mpg in mine (city), and it has an MP3 player

All that for $11,000 - plus I got the special paint package, automatic, and spoiler.

I bought one about 6 months ago, and I'm extremely happy with it.

[tjdee]

62. I was looking at that, but it's a Chevy....

I have a Chevy now and it's a real POS...of course, I bought it used and I think it had some major problems before I bought it.

Is the Aveo really cramped? Does it have FWD (I'd guess so?)? I did look at them, but the Chevy name hasn't really endeared me to it.

[TroubleMan]

63. It's got lots of room inside, even though it doesn't look like it

I have two kids, and another due in March, and it's way more than enough room for me.

As far as reliability goes....I've only had it for 6 months, so the jury's still out. However, this car is actually made by Daewoo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_Kalos


I've got the hatchback, in this color:




So far I can recommend it, but again I've only had it for 6 months. However, I've been extremely pleased with it over the last 6 months. A lot of it might have to do with the fact that I'm an audiophile, and with the MP3 player, I can listen to all my songs (I have between 10,000 & 15,000 mp3's).

[Ally McLesbian]

74. Aveo is built by...

... Daewoo, the company that used to build the Lanos, Nubira, and Leganza before going bankrupt and being bought by GM.

Daewoo is not very competitive, even against other Korean car companies.

[Zomby Woof]

64. Hondas suck

Those and Toyotas are overpriced.

If you want cheap AND reliable, go with Nissan. The Sentra is affordable and very durable. I have had mine for almost a year and I LOVE it.

Plus, I average 39 mpg for gas on my commute. :-)

Hondas are for the phallically challenged. Toyotas are not what they used to be.

Go with Nissan.

[XOKCowboy]

66. Gotta go with Honda

Had Honda motorcycles and Honda cars. They're well engineered and last forever. Just my opinion though.

I don't know anything about the Scions (except I think they're ugly as sin) but really the only difference in Honda and Toyota are owner preference, meaning go test drive the Civic, the Scion, the Corrolla (and the Sentra) and see for yourself which one fits ya. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.

[DainBramaged]

71. Just another "I love my foreign car thread"

When all that is left are Japanese transplants and Chinese crap, and they can charge whatever they want.

(Japanese secret selling agreements, never happen, no way, honest as the day is long, would never screw their customers ):sarcasm:

and the only jobs left in America are service jobs because our technology and manufacturing has departed in the name of the lowest price, you can buy the wave of cheap junk Chinese cars coming, because you won't even be able to afford the Japanese cars.

When the Chinese and Japanese call in the paper on America, someone will have to pay, and by then I'll be taking a dirt nap. But I'll die with an American brand in my driveway.

Union and American jobs first. The rest can go to Hell.

:dem:

[tjdee]

72. There's a study somewhere that women prefer foreign, men

prefer American.

I prefer working. And cheap. I have an American brand right now, and it's the shittiest piece of shit that ever shat. I'm a single parent who *needs* a car. MY "American job" depends on it. If I thought an American car was durable/reliable/whatever, they'd be there (though one of the posters upthread has me looking at the Aveo, which I don't know if it's even got an American engine inside).

Whose fault is it that American cars aren't seen that way? I don't know, and frankly, American lack of foresight/creativity/effective money management probably has something to do with that. The big heads at the top screw it up for the little guys on the bottom, but the bottom line is that I need a car that will do the job in my life. If a foreign car will do that, that's what I'll get.

I also eat meat. :silly:

[Ally McLesbian]

75. Agreed

And as long as American car companies engineer crappy cars, then blame the unions for building them (when the unions did the best they could with a crappy design they were given), they'll have a hard time convincing me to buy an American car.

And here in Southern California, both domestic and foreign automakers create plenty of jobs - in design studios. So either way you go, you create American jobs. In fact, the superior and more reliable foreign designs usually win. Only Pat Buchanan supporters drive American cars here, and I get lots of odd looks in my Ford Contour (and it's positively the worst car anyone I know has ever had... especially compared to all the Japanese and German cars my acquaintances drive).

And if I wanted to save local MANUFACTURING jobs, I'll have to buy from the only company that makes cars in California - TOYOTA.

American trucks and SUVs are more competitive, but the high fuel prices are driving people away, and also, the Japanese are making gains even in this category.