Episcopal Church question

[Squatch]

Hi, all.

I am considering a dogmatic shift in my religious practices from Roman Catholic to Episcopalian.

I have been at odds with the RC Church for most of my adult life as I do not agree with their gender-equality position, their stance on homosexuality (or other alternative lifestyles), and some other stuff.

However, what I do believe in are the affirmations in the Nicene Creed. I do also rather enjoy the traditions of the liturgical mass and all of it's customs and practices.

So, in searching for an alternative religion in which I can still practice my beliefs as well as embrace the beliefs of a more inclusive, aware, and understanding adult, I think that the Anglican Churches, in particular the Episcopalian Church, might be the correct fit.

I would certainly appreciate any comments or insights from anybody. And, please, I would appreciate that people refrain from "organized religion sucks" comments. This is a serious inquiry and I would like honest responses.

S

[RevCheesehead]

1. It sounds to me like that would be a good fit for you.

Episcopalians use the Nicene Creed, too. Technically, so do the United Methodists - but alas, our church is so diverse, it really depends on what part of the country you live in to know something about what kind of Methodist Church you'll find.

Best wishes on your search for a new spiritual home! O8)

[no name no slogan]

2. You might want to try the Religion group

your chances of getting a good response are probably higher there than in the Lounge.

[Squatch]

4. Thanks! It's pretty slow over there, so I thought I'd try it here, first

[Bill McBlueState]

6. actually, the lounge is probably better

The religion forum tends to draw people with... let's say polarized... views on religion. The lounge is probably a more level-headed group.

[kwassa]

3. All the Pomp, and None of the Guilt!

That's our slogan!

"However, what I do believe in are the affirmations in the Nicene Creed. I do also rather enjoy the traditions of the liturgical mass and all of it's customs and practices."

Then you will probably like the Episcopal Church very much, as the liturgy is quite similar. On a national level, the church is quite liberal, but it can vary from diocese to diocese, and within individual congregations withing a diocese. I am in the Washington diocese, which is very liberal. The nearby Virginia diocese is pretty conservative. There is a hard-core conservative minority nationally that has gone ballistic over the elevation of the openly gay Eugene Robinson to Bishop, and that is an ongoing controversy.

However, there are many clergy that are gay, female, or both, priests are allowed to marry, anyone can take communion.

It really depends on where you live, but I would say attend a few services, and see if it feels like a fit. Try out several different churches, too. Talk to people, ask questions.

[Squatch]

5. Thanks for the information!

I wonder how conservative they are down here, given that this is the center of the universe for evangelicals.

[regnaD kciN]

8. Where are you living?

Since that info isn't in your profile, I cannot give any more advice.

I would guess that ECUSA would be a very good choice for you, but you may want to do some "parish shopping" among us. Since you mention your love for RC liturgics, I suspect you would be happiest at a "high church" (a.k.a. Anglo-Catholic) parish, which emphasizes the liturgical aspects of worship. (Virtually all ECUSA parishes celebrate Holy Eucharist -- i.e. the Mass -- as their primary Sunday worship, but they can do so in styles that range from Eastern Orthodox ceremony to Congregationalist austerity.) However, some high-church parishes are really "Roman wannabes," whose liturgical style is closest to pre-Vatican II Roman Catholicism, sometimes with theology and politics to match. Not that there are a lot of such places, but ECUSA is very much a "big tent" denomination, and it may take checking out a handful of nearby parishes before you find one that is a good fit for you.

[Squatch]

10. Chesapeake, VA (near VA Beach)

[Gormy Cuss]

15. Kwassa, don't reveal all our secrets!

Squatch needs to be fully indoctrinated before he finds out the good stuff
Until then we are merely "God's Frozen People."
:D

[Squatch]

16. How does the Episcopal Church look upon imbibing?

Namely, beer?

[Gormy Cuss]

18. Historically, sherry was the sacred drink

But I'm sure you can find a modern parish embracing beer.:toast:

I was in my parish choir in high school (and we had a professional choir director --- some Episcopal churches take liturgical music very seriously.) We had long, tough practice sessions and they were followed by beer and pizza at a local pub.

[kwassa]

22. They don't call us Whiskeypalians for nothing!

Wherever two or more are gathered together, there is a fifth.

[Squatch]

23. I should have put 2 & 2 together: Anglican - Whisky

[TallahasseeGrannie]

27. We all got tipsy at my wedding

and it was held in the church parish hall.

[kwassa]

24. I've also heard us called "The Frozen Chosen".

unlike our Baptist brethern.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

26. One of my favorite jokes...

Two rabbis were asked to predict what path an infant would take in life. They set at the end of the room a whiskey bottle, a deck of cards, and a pile of money. They then set the infant ten feet away. The child crawled to the items and scooped them all up happily.

"Oy Vey!" they cried. "An Episcopalian!"



There's a lot of truth to that joke.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. All the Pomp and none of the POPE!

As a life-long Episcopalian that's the big difference I see.

If you choose an "Anglican" church in the US it is likely to be rather conservative as they probably broke away from the Episcopal church over the gay bishop stuff.

The music in the ECUSA is exquisite.

[imperialismispasse]

7. My family is Episcopal

I have to admit I don't go to church too often, but my family are all liberals and they have never had a problem with the church's stance. The church is pro-choice, they allow their priests to be married, they allow gay and lesbian (and female of course) priests. The churches are usually pretty nice inside and the mass is pretty similar to Catholic I think. Also they let people who have been baptised Christian take the Eucharist, rather than having to be confirmed and recently confessed like in the Catholic church. In fact they make a big point of being welcoming. Also if you only go on holidays (I am like that) they are welcoming rather than laying a guilt trip on you like my GF's Catholic church.

Anyway its a pretty good church. I think you would like it.

[JVS]

9. I'm a Lutheran, of the LCMS, formerly ELCA, but I know a bit about...

the Episcopalian Church because the ELCA was in full fellowship with them before I left.

Episcopalians by and large affirm the Nicene, Apostles and Athanasian Creeds, as do Lutherans. Also most Episcopalians hold to Liturgical worship, Apostolic succession, and there are segments of the Episcopalian church who strive to be extremely imitative of the RCC and/or EOC in areas such as marian devotion, eucharistic adoration, authority of the deuterocanon and belief in purgatory. Those who maintain the latter practices often refer to themselves as Anglo-Catholics. In fact, there are even some among the more conservative Anglo-catholics who have come to desire an Anglican Pope in light of the current crisis that the Anglican communion faces.

Now the reason I've said by and large and mostly above is that there is a great deal of non-uniformity among Anglicans. This is not only visible among lay people, but even among Bishops. For instance, Bishop John Shelby Spong is probably the most famous example of an Anglican Bishop whose views on Christianity are so non-traditional as to cast real doubt on whether he could be classified as thinking within the Nicene creed. There is also a crisis of identity when it comes to whether Anglicans consider themselves to be protestant or catholic (perhaps better phrases as Western Orthodox). So while Anglicanism offers a great deal of freedom, there is also a disturbing lack of doctrinal coherence and unity as far as I am concerned. The ELCA generally corresponds to the middle ground of the ECUSA, and seems able to demonstrate more doctrinal unity.

[Squatch]

11. Thanks, everybody! I'm going to check out a parish or two...

[liontamer]

12. I like it

but then I was raised in it. Of course with everything, it really depends on the parish you attend how comfortable you feel, but I've always enjoyed going to mass in strange churches in strange cities, and I've never been to an episcopal church that I felt was uninclusive (and I have been to some RC masses that scared me).

good luck
(from a former female acolyte(what we call "alter boys")

[Gormy Cuss]

13. The move from RC to Episcopal is perhaps the most common

because former RCs can feel comfortable in a similar dogma and reliance on formal masses. Remember that such a switch is not change your religion, just changing denominations with Christianity. The Episcopal Church will embrace you as someone joining the communion. The Episcopal Church USA is the traditional Episcopal church.

Perhaps the strongest suit and most infuriating thing about the faith is the tolerance for a diverse approach to worship. Some parishes are so high church one would swear that the Pope was expected. Some are so low church that you might think you had stepped into a American Baptist church. One frustration is that these designations aren't written on the door -- you'll need to explore that for yourself. There are great many parishes that are best described as 'broad' -- half the ceremony of high church but looser like low church. These distinctions are important in how the services feel; the dogma is essentially the same for all types.

The first step is to visit the local churches and test out the fit. One hint: if the Sunday morning services are all listed as masses, it's probably a broad or high church parish and communion will be offered. Once you find one that feels comfortable, approach the priest for counseling.

I think the strength of the faith is that the dogma, while fairly rigid, is under constant scrutiny. That's why they have been able to make room at the table for gays, and women in the clergy, etc. Over the years I've known many RCs who made the switch and this reexamination of dogma seems to be the recurring reason. It's close enough dogmatically to feel familiar, yet more in tune with 21st century issues.

I know only one person who went the other way. She married an RC and agreed to convert. As she tells the story, the priest began quizzing her on items like the Holy Trinity, the Nicene Creed, etc, and after five or six questions he stopped and said "Wait, you were an Episcopalian? We can skip most of this." ;)

On edit: I see you're in the Cheseapeake area. Here's link for that Diocese
http://www.ecusa.anglican.org/directory_11278_ENG_HTM.htm?menu=menu11156
You may want to check with someone familiar with Integrity (the Episcopal LGBT community.)
I have a feeling they would know how conservative the parishes are in your area.

[Strong Atheist]

14. ..... nt.

[SOteric]

17. Episcopal churches do vary widely,

but almost every community has a more formal church, usually the cathedral. The 'high church' the more formal is closer in how its services are conducted to the RC.

The major differences are that the Episcopal offer communion to all who have accepted Christ as saviour. And Christian from any religious tradition may take communion during their service even without first making confession.

Both churches do offer confession, though it is somewhat less traditional in the Episcopal church, usually heard in an office rather than a confessional. Both churches have priests, the Episcopal do not require celebacy and do not close the priesthood to women or sexually active gays and lesbians.

The Episcopal church does not venerate Mary in the same manner as does the RC, though some do have Marian devotions. Nor do they believe in transubstantiation during the Holy Eucharist, but rather regard the presence of Christ in the communion as a Holy Mystery. There is a lesser emphasis on the intercession of saints and angels.

Divorce in the Episcopal church does not cut one off from God. The issue of Abortion and Euthanasia is all over the map.

[flamingyouth]

19. I think you'll find it's a good fit for you.

The services are very similar. I know a lot of people who have left the Catholic church to come to the Episcopal church.

I hope you find a home there. :pals:

www.anglicansonline.org

[Rowdyboy]

20. I'm an Episcop in a small rural southern town-our priest is very liberal

He's a Vietnam vet who's anti-war and extremely anti-Bush. While some in the congregation are conservative, most of the hard-liners have moved on to more conservative churches.

Individual parishes can vary greatly though, so it might take a few visits to find the right fit for you. I love high church services at the cathedral in Jackson-the first time I ever heard mass sung sent chills down my back (the priest had an excellent voice!)

[RebelOne]

21. As a non-practicing Episcopalian, I'd say to go for it.

I am an atheist now, but when I was a teenager, I tried many different churches, but finally settled on the Episcopal church.

[XemaSab]

28. Definitely have a talk with the priest

There are pockets of very right-wing Episcopalianism scattered around.

For example, the Bishop of the Fresno diocese refuses to ordain women. :wow:

[Mrs. Venation]

29. The Episcopal Church

has been my spiritual home for more than 30 years. I grew up Southern Baptist; I still consider myself to be a "recovering Baptist." I found, in the Episcopal Church, a loving, supportive and open-minded spiritual community. I love liturgical worship!

I don't know where you live, Squatch, so I can't tell you that all parishes you might visit will be politically progressive. There are some conservative parishes who cling to outdated, misogynistic and homophobic dogma, but I think those are greatly in the minority.

If you are near Washington, DC, please check out St. James' Capitol Hill on 8th Street, N.E.

Mrs. V.

[Shell Beau]

30. I am Episcopal and I have to say it is a very accepting

church. The organist at my church in my hometown is gay. I had a gay Episcopal man in my wedding who read from the Bible. He is a member of that church and it is no secret that he is gay. I had a woman Episcopal priest who counseled my husband and me before we got married (couseling required). It is a very progressive church.

[Ellen Forradalom]

31. Welcome!

You would not be the first to make the move. Many have made it for the same reasons. My mother's priest, an erudite man and a top-notch liturgist, is also a refugee from Rome.

There are many styles of worship in the Episcopal Church. Look for a church that is 'high church' or 'Anglo-Catholic' in its approach. The mother church of Anglo-Catholicism in America is Church of the Advent in Boston. In Chicago, try Church of the Ascension.

Good luck and God bless.

[xchrom]

32. i come from mainline protestant{methodist, first christian}

and now i'm an episcopalian -- though i've never joined, my little church latched onto me and hasn't let go.

i've seen in this thread where people talk about being accepted at the table in an episcopal church IF they accept christ -- well at my little church shortly after 9-11 we began sharing services with a mosque.

and let me tell you we accepted and encouraged our muslim brothers and sisters to come to the table -- and they did.
and as far as i'm concerned THAT is the eucharist.
since that time any and all are welcome -- and i wouldn't have it any other way.

but i'm very liberal -- and i define christ and what all that means in all kinds of ways.
so, if they can accept me -- trust me -- they can accept just about anybody.