Francis of Assisi vs. Chief Illiniwek

[RPM]

vs.


you decide.....

[JVS]

1. Is this an offensive mascot competition? In that case The Chief wins.

Besides I'm stricken with Illinois Loyalty!

[RPM]

2. you took the illinois loyalty oath

:scared:

[fishwax]

3. ugh, I hate that mascot

[FuzzySlippers]

4. Me too!!! And I'm an Illinois alumna.

A former professor of mine wrote a wonderful essay on the subject for Counterpunch:

http://www.counterpunch.org/boyle03302005.html

[fishwax]

5. Until I got here

I didn't quite realize how nauseating this whole thing is. I mean, I opposed it, but until spending a few weeks driving around C/U and seeing "Chief: yesterday Today FOREVER" bumper stickers on every other SUV in town, I didn't really have the proper sense of it. :puke: I was coming from a campus and a community with a vibrant and vital native-american community, and the attitude here just blew me away. They say things like "if we drop the chief, nobody will even remember the indians." :eyes::grr::puke:

Great essay, btw, and a better analogy than the "fighting whiteys" type arguments that seem to have worn themselves out. Thanks for providing the link.

:hi:

[FuzzySlippers]

7. Glad you liked it. I thought it was excellent.

:hi:

[davsand]

8. Those "Pro-Chief" people are mostly not U of I folks.

Take this as the observation of a townie as well as a U of I grad, but a lot of those supporters are not people who actually went to school here in the last thirty years. A couple of the more extravagant (and vocal) supporters of the chief are NOT actually local university grads--they are local businessmen.

As somebody that used to work in a store that sold University "spirit wear" I'll tell you that the stuff with the Chief on it usually sold to older customers who live locally but didn't attend the U of I.

On game days we did sell a lot to people in town for the game--but even then, the buyers of the Chief stuff were usually the guys who peeled off a couple of hundred dollar bills then handed out sweatshirts to their group.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks in removing that mascot is the fear held by the U of I Foundation that the older Alums and the local community will stop sending cash and making bequests to the U of I if they get pissed off.

What the actual STUDENTS think seems to be pretty much a non-factor.

I'm not a Chief supporter at all, but I do think that a handful of people have really done a lot to equate money for the U of I with keeping the Chief.

When it becomes a liability with the NCAA (participation in NCAA tournaments, for example, is forbidden to teams with racist mascots) you will start to see some significant changes happen.

Just my two cents.


Laura

[fishwax]

9. i certainly believe that to an extent

I definitely see it more on cars/houses/people that I wouldn't assume to be students. And I agree with you that it's all about the administration's fear of a backlash from big donors.

I'm not sure about student reaction, though. It seems like (based on my discussions with people who have been here longer) support among the students for removing the chief seems to be growing, albeit slowly, but I think it might just be that current students are more realistic about the inevitable. I still see a lot of my students wearing chief paraphernalia. The one time the subject was broached in my classroom, I judged maybe slightly more than a third as disapproving of the mascot, about a third to resent the possibility of his removal, and the rest pretty much unconcerned with the affair. Hardly scientific, of course ;)

[nemo137]

24. Also, if you look on UIUC's facebook

alot of the pro-chief groups are full of six-pack, Champaign fratboys, and most of the anti-chief groups are full of Allen Hall, Urbana types. Just sayin'.

Full Disclosure: I live in Allen (or, as last semester's DI conservative columnist used to call us "Little Berkley"), and am anti-cheif, although the one stridently anti-chief group grates my nuts as much as the pro-chief fratboys.

[JVS]

6. I don't think that the logo is nearly as bad as the "half-time" dance

Still, I'd hope that we'd change from the "fighting illini" to the "mighty fighting lincolns" and change both accordingly.

[fishwax]

10. gag, no kidding

I haven't actually been to a football game (that would have required missing my undergrad team play on tv ;)), but I've seen the dance on video. Yeesh.

But I'd love to see the Fighting Lincoln Dance :rofl:

[RPM]

18. that would only demean Lincoln!!!!!

:hide:

[JVS]

22. His own party has exceeded anyone else's ability to do that

[scarlet_owl]

11. I love St. Francis. Hate the Chief.

I live in Urbana, and I'm so sick of those pro-chief bumper stickers everyone seems to have. I'm also sick of the excuse that it's "tradition".

[DanCa]

12. Here's some food for thought.

Whats the difference of having the chief as a mascot rather than say an Italian pizza maker and instead of doing the tomahawk chop they throw imaginary dough in the air? I am just wondering who draws the line and what the distinction is. I apologize in advance if I insulted anyones ethnic background. That was not the intent of this post.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

14. Or, say, a little belligerent drunken Irishman?

Note: I'm a recent Illinois alum, and not a Chief supporter.

However, I've always wondered why there's never been any sort of discussion or protest regarding Notre Dame's more perjorative ethnic mascot.

[DanCa]

15. I am still waitting for a white trash mascott :D

We can pretend to shot gun beers as a salute.

[FuzzySlippers]

16. I think the difference is that Notre Dame

was founded by a religious order, many of whose members were Irish. The University of Illinois was not founded by American Indians. It's considered permissible to stereotype your own ethnic group.

[RPM]

19. the founders were french...

the payers to whom the name refered were irish. And i believe the name was originally used by opponents in derisive fashion till the school adopted it.

[FuzzySlippers]

20. Ok, I looked it up

and I see you're right about the founder being French.:-) But there certainly has been a heavy Irish-
American presence there over the years, and they have, as you said, adopted the Fighting Irishman as their mascot, despite its origins. That's a far cry from the situation at Illinois. The Native American presence there has been miniscule, and most Native Americans find the use of Indian mascots to be highly offensive.

[JVS]

23. As someone with a partially Irish background I feel demeaned

I feel demeaned because they choose the ancestry of my great grandmother to represent one of the most despicable football programs in the country.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

13. DAMN IT! YOU JUST GAVE ME MEMORY!! I WENT TO

ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI ELEMENTRY SCHOOL!! AAAAAAAA!

[terrya]

17. Chief Illiniwek is an embarrassment

Gosh, let's take some white person's idea of a Native American and turn that into a sports mascot. Great, fucking wonderful.

[meow2u3]

21. St. Francis of Assisi. No doubt about it!

He's the one who might get me into heaven through the back door because I love animals. O8)