Thoughts on relationships and divorce.

[Wapsie B]

I saw this posted on another site and thought it really hit home.

"All our relationships gor thru periods of growth, devlopment and change. Even our most vital relationships, with our parents, siblings, friends, co-workers usually change thoughout time. The relationship of a child with his parents changes at differnt stages..the five year old child, is more dependent than the 15 year old,,,and by 20 the child has seperated himself and moved away.

Brothers and sisters, who grew up together, grow apart and gain distance as they get older. Friends come and go, childhood buddies, move away, college friends get married, co-workers change jobs. In every important relationship there is contant changing.......uphevel....

Yet, when we find the love of our life, we expect a marriage to be permanent, forever, remain the same, constant, there should be no variable, no growth. It should be forever.....why is that?

if all our other relationships in life, parents, siblings, friends, co-workers, evolve, change and grow. If everything else in our lifes disolves, and rebuilds then why shouldnt we view marriage in the same way. Why is it easier to let go of our parents when we have outgrown them but difficult and heart wrenching to leave a marriage? We dont consider ourselves a failure when we move our of our parents house? We think of it as an adventure, of gaining independence. We dont say, i failed as a child because i moved out of my parents house.

But how many people say.........my marriage failed. How many people feel guilt, anger and remorse becaue they feel they failed at being married.

Perhaps we place too many expectations on marriage to complete us, to cure us.....to direct us. Perhaps marriage is only a stage we go thru, like childhood, adolesence, and adulthood. We grow, we change and our relationships change as well."

[no name no slogan]

1. good thoughts. As a recent divorcee, I don't think of it as "failure"

or at least I don't try to place blame either. What's the point? People enter and leave our lives all the time. After all, how many people still keep in touch with everybody they knew in high school? I can count those I keep in touch with on one hand.

The only constant thing in our lives is change. We grow over time (some more than others, of course ;)). That's just how things work.

[thinkingwoman]

2. my only failure

was waiting so long to get divorced. :eyes:

Then again, if I'd gotten divorced sooner, then I wouldn't have been at the right place at the right time to meet my second husband. :evilgrin:

So I guess I'm a success.

[Wapsie B]

8. That's the thought process I've been going through.

Sometimes things DO happen for a reason. I'm glad things are good for you. :)

[thinkingwoman]

10. I hope they work out well for you too!

:hi:

[Wapsie B]

11. Thank you.

They're definitely looking up. The situation you describe is very similar to mine, about the feeling of waiting too long but yet being in the right place at the right time. I have hope.

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. While our relationships with family members change and grow, they

"typically" remain constant. Whether by choice or force. My relationship with MrG has changed, has ebbed, has regained its vitality...and then lost it and regained it again. For me, it's about tying a knot, and hanging on.

[Wapsie B]

6. I believe that there's such a stigma of guilt

that's been interwoven with marriage that's held some relationships together when they shouldn't have been. What if at some basic level a mistake was made with the choice of a life partner? It doesn't mean that either person is a bad person. It's that the relationship is truly not one of love. It's that there cannot ever be that true love.

[xchrom]

14. maybe it's a life partner

for a while in your life. not your whole life.

[skygazer]

4. Interesting perspective

And it makes a lot of sense. But generally with relationships with parents, siblings and friends, you don't completely sever the ties. You grow apart but there's still a contact and an affection and often it comes back together later.

With marriage, when it ends it tends to completely end. And I think that's why it's so wrenching. Besides, the emotions involved are different, more intense generally and more intimate. So when you end that, there's a deeper feeling of loss. Add children into the mix and guilt comes into play. The breakup of a marriage IS different than those other relationships and I don't think it's only expectations that make it so.

[Pale Blue Dot]

5. Marriage is a partnership.

Ideally anyway. You partner should be your best friend, your lover, and the one person who knows you and believes in your above others. We often go into marriage young and naive with self-imposed blinders to the truths we see staring back at us. We see what we want to see, yet the "problems" we may see then remain the same problems 10 years down the road. Sometimes what we see as failures in ourselves are simply incompatibilities with the other person. It is perhaps the other person who failed to be the person we need, perhaps through no fault, but through basic fundamental differences in who they are. It's very hard hard to risk letting go and jump in to a potential abyss of nothingness (sometimes we can cling to various illusions sometimes to make those jumps a little easier), but otherwise there's no chance at something better coming into your life and more importantly understanding who it is that you are (and what it is that you need).

Then there's all the money stuff and the pain it does cause children (perhaps saves them the pain one hopes of making their own mistakes later though). Makes divorce kind of crappy. Still though, what is a marriage without love, passion, and true understanding of one another? It's not a marriage, but an empty shell- the big illusion. What kind of life is that? A life that is a lie.

[Wapsie B]

7. Talking about your last paragraph

it's a horrible life. I lived with parents who recently had their 50th anniversary. An illusion if ever there was one. Religious guilt, nothing more.

I want that best friend, lover, intimate confidant type of relationship; not the faux marriage that I've seen for so long. The rock my world feeling, the infatuation is supposed to go away. I wouldn't know. But I'll sure try to keep it burning.

[SeattleGirl]

9. Finnfan, your words really ring true

While I think there are things about the other person that we can just come to accept about them, that aren't such big deals (after all, who among us is perfect?), there are other things that just don't change, that become bigger issues as time goes by. Things that we come to realize we just cannot accept, and then we have a choice: do we stay in the marriage and "settle", or do we gather up our courage and say, "Nope, I want something more. I'm not willing to continue in a relationship that is less than what I know I could have, that gives me less than I want or need"?

[Wapsie B]

12. That's what's been on my mind

for longer than I want to remember. It's not just a wanting of more. It's a wanting what is truly right for us.

[SeattleGirl]

16. That's it, exactly!

"Truly right for us" is more accurate than "more". And once we know what's truly right for us, we can no longer ignore it. At least, I can't.

[Wapsie B]

17. I can't ignore it either.

Neither party is less or more, good or bad. It's does this person in the here and now truly mesh with us? Are they truly compatible with us? I've tried ignoring it for a long time. I cannot do that any longer.

[merh]

19. But the question is, do you have the "right" to hurt those

you claim to love or have loved, in your search for what is right for you.

It is not whether or not we have the right to happiness. That is a given, without self worth and feeling loved we are less of a person, we can't be all we are supposed to be.

The conflicts arise when we do not respect those we leave behind. When we blame them for our unhappiness and the failings of the relationship. When we emotionally commit to another before we have ended our existing relationship.

It is like holding on to what is until something better comes along. There is nothing more harmful to another, to the person we had committed to, than staying in a flawed relationship while shopping for a better relationship.

The bottom line is, we have to be content with ourselves, we have to love ourselves and not lay the blame on others when we are not happy. Self love is the key to being able to love and accept love. See the link in post 15.

[SeattleGirl]

22. You make some good points, merh

And I did read the post you linked to in #15. What I am talking about is when you get to a point where you can no longer ignore something that is missing. It doesn't mean the other person is at fault -- the other person is just being who they are; they aren't wrong, or bad, or anything like that. And neither are you -- you are also being who you are. And I think that it's important to look at yourself, and say, okay, I feel that such-and-such is missing. Is that acceptable? And you are the only one who can answer that question.

I am not one to deliberately hurt another. It's absolutely the last thing I want to do. Sometimes, hurt is inevitable, though, even if it is not intended in a malicious or blameful way. On the other side of the coin is this: If I feel something is missing, if the match is not what I orignally thought it was, might the other person be thinking the same thing, and sitting on it because they don't want to hurt me?

Bottom line, though -- relationiships are complicated, no doubt. And they must be respected, regardless of the direction in which they travel.

[DanCa]

13. I can't wont comment on peoples personal lives.

I am not Kreskin I cannot read the hearts and minds of others. I just hope that for those that are undergoing the processe that it's as gentle as possible.

[merh]

15. My simple view

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4519899

[RevCheesehead]

25. Those words still ring true today.

I'm just sorry that it's archived. Perhaps you can re-post it - I'm thinking on Valentine's Day, when a lot of people are bummed. :hug:

[xchrom]

18. i've had several, several ''great loves''.

and i've each as much as the other -- though differently because each of them were different.

i wouldn't have missed any of them for the world.

i can't speak to the issue of children -- but i do think that once we removed certain social parameters -- i.e. the families picking our husbands and wives for us, community pressure to stay married{i.e. we move around a lot more} and allowed people to marry on the basis of romantic love; we also allowed room for more divorce. and because humans DO change in their lifetimes it seems to me that divorce is a fairly natural process of where we are today.

what we aren't good at yet -- is separating. we have no effective rituals to mark the passing of a relationship as a positive thing, we only treat it as a loss.

i think there is a different way.

[Wapsie B]

20. We treat it as a loss

because of the guilt placed on the separation. We've been conditioned to think of it as wrong to want to end a relationship.

[xchrom]

29. it is a loss.

but that's ok -- we are smart enough to develop rituals and systems to help us work through those things.

there are kinds of loss associated with living.

we just need to get better at certain kinds.

[Ellen Forradalom]

21. Very interesting words to reflect on

at this very moment of my life.

[Nikia]

23. I think that people tend to expect too much

We are born into family relationships. Our parents, siblings, and other relatives are not chosen by us. When we are adults, we can choose how close of a relationship that we have with them, but they are the same people. They never really cease to be our parents, siblings, or other relatives.
We can have multiple friends. Some people we have come to know from various situations, we stay in contact with and stay friends with. None of these are legally binding relationships and rarely are even socially. If we have a conflict with a friend or a problem in the friendship, there are often ways we can distance or take a break from the friendship for a while without breaking it off completely. Even if we do take a break from a close friend, spending more time with another friend during that time usually won't lead to as many hurt feelings as dating someone else during a maritial separation.
With marriage or other marriage like relationships, we marry one person and tend to hold them in greater importance than all other people. We marry them and not someone else because of the qualities and interests that they possess. That is a set up for high and sometimes unrealistic expectations because not everyone can remain at their best or how they were when we marry. We are less forgiving of our spouse than a friend or sibling when he or she loses his/her job and doesn't get another one, loses interest in a formerly mutual hobby, suffers from physical/mental illness, or undergoes other changes. At this point, I have come to believe that these high expectations are the problem with marriage.
I think that it is human to want consistent relationships. On average, people in America are more independent now than at any other time in history. It is now normal to distance oneself from one's family and childhood friends. Marriage is the only relationship that is considered one of real importance beside that of one's minor children. If you doubt this, see how your boss will respond if he or she tells you the company wants to transfer you and you refuse because you want to stay near your sibling or your best friend. We want people who will always be there for us and who we can count on. We don't want to be alone.

[Seabiscuit]

24. Marriage is a different kettle of fish.

All of our other relationships have rational bases for change, and change is to be expected.

Marriage, on the other hand is based almost purely on feelings - intense feelings of how you fell in love (a different kind of love than one for one's early family, for one's friends and co-workers). Marriage is an attempt to preserve those intense feelings, feelings which do not raise expectations of significant change.

But, yeah, shit happens.

[RevCheesehead]

26. It's an interesting thought, and I can see how it might be appealing.

Forgive me, but I speak out of a certain context: a)as someone who has never been married; and b)as a Christian pastor.

The concept of Christian marriage is established in a covenant relationship entered into by both persons, and with God. In it, the two persons agree to live together and work through the tough times.

All I can offer are these observations:

1. Marriage is far too easy. Most churches, and most pastors, are now insisting on pre-marital counseling. I don't do this as a "test" - but rather, use a survey which helps to point out areas of both strength and growth. Every couple that has taken this inventory has told me that it was helpful - even if they've been living together for years.

2. Divorce is far too easy. I think it's fair to say that too many people decide to call it quits, without really trying to work out their problems or differences. Obviously, I'm not talking about serious issues, like abuse, infidelity, and such. I'm talking about those who understand love as a "feeling" that no longer is there. That's not love - that's infatuation. And no matter how hard you try, that feeling just doesn't last forever.

3. Many people have no idea what kind of person they are, and have no idea what they're looking for in a partner. Too many people have felt the pressure to get married - especially if an unexpected pregnancy is part of the equation. Or they succomb to the social pressure to be like everyone else, and get married because "that's what people your age do."
Not everyone is ready for marriage, and not everyone makes good choices.

4. Accept that change and growth is normal. The key is in understanding that for a marriage to succeed, you need to grow together. Make sure that both persons are involved in making decisions, in having their desires and needs met, and most importantly, in finding their own voice, even within a relationship. Overly-needy people lose themselves, and selfish people forget there's another person involved.

5. I agree with the comment that we're not good at dealing with loss. In fact, I would assert that we are very, very bad at it. All the pressure in our society says you must succeed. But many times, marriages fail because of some other loss... the death of a family member, inability to have children, disappointment in others, financial trouble, etc...

Our church conference offers "Marriage Encounter" retreats for couples. The purpose is to evaluate the relationship, and see what can be done to shore up areas that need attention, and nurture those things which are going well. Sort of a 50,000 mile check-up. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to strengthen their relationship.

One final word: Guilt.
Guilt is defined by forces outside of yourself... by letting someone other that yourself tell you what should happen. Nobody else has walked in your shoes, and nobody else knows the degree that you tried to make things work. If you know in your heart that you made the right decision, then believe it, and live like it. But if you're seeking external validation, then you've got some issues of your own that you might want to work out with a counselor or therapist.

[GOPisEvil]

27. That was very, very well-said.

:)

[xchrom]

28. i don't think divorce is too easy.

and i don't think making divorce more difficult is any knind of answer.

modernity requires we base marriage on romantic love -- you can parse words now if you want, but that's what it is -- and it's romanitc love cut loose from ancient parameters. i.e. your family chooses your partner, the disaproval of the community is heavy handed and yes the sujugation of women to men.

we are cut loose from those things.

people by their nature are ephemeral -- changlings if you will.

i find the idea of a 50% divorce rate to be about normal for quirky humans.

but if you are a pastor -- you are not a disinterested partner -- you become the ''disaproving'' community -- imposing relative value on marriages in part because you have to be interested in their offspring.

as a parting note i will say i'm a practising episcopalian.

[RevCheesehead]

30. your post is filled with assumptions that I did not express.

First of all, I was speaking within the context of Christian marriage. Not for those outside of the church, but those who see life as formed theologically - in a covenant relationship with God, and one another.

How on earth does "modernity" require anything of marriage?? That's conforming to the ways of the world - something which Jesus spoke rather strongly about. You can call it modernity, but you're really talking about peer pressure - or doing what everyone else is doing.

The idea of "covenant" is alien to our culture. We Americans seem to feel we don't need anyone, and don't need to be beholdin' to anyone. Our fierce streak of independence is part of our own undoing. If we can't put our faith, hope, or trust into something, then what do we have?

A covenant is a commitment, and a marriage covenant, IMO, is one entered into with a commitment for life (provided both are actively working on and living out their covenant to one another). I place a high value on marriage not because of children (as you claim I do), but because I think that people need to understand that when you make a promise, you stick to it.

By the way, I am in full support of gay marriage - are you?

[xchrom]

31. ''By the way, I am in full support of gay marriage - are you?''

did i say one thing that would make you doubt i am in support of gay marraige?

what i express doubt about is that if you are in a certain line of business that your views would necessarily be skewed.

and that's true if your response is any indication.

i am a christian -- aquainted with the bible and what jesus says -- so i don't need a lecture about what is or isn't ''too much with the world''.

i guess you missed the part where i said i am a practising episcopalian.

but i also think the bible is highly flawed.

i guess i think more of people than you do -- mostly i think people get married expecting it to work -- but like so many things human they don't.

what we often have trouble doing is -- with the possible exception of death{i.e. funerals} -- is helping people move on effectively.

i find it significant that second marriages are often much more successful than first marriages.

[RevCheesehead]

34. From you first post, I presumed you didn't think much of marriage at all.

If it's something that has a 50% chance of survival, then why bother? And why take a relationship to that level, if you're not willing to work at it?

It's not divorce that's the problem - it's marriage. And people simply don't take it seriously anymore. More often than not, they're getting married for other reasons.

A civil marriage is one thing, but a Christian marriage is something altogether separate. The certificate is a legal document. But the ceremony in the church is an act of worship, with promises made before God and others.

I would like to know what your understanding of marriage is, what it involves, what are the personal, spiritual, and theological considerations that go into entering this covenant, and at what point you consider it OK to just bail?

I don't think it's enough to say, "oh, we don't love each other anymore, so we're splitting up." That's shallow, and beneath the institution (and in some churches, the sacrament) of marriage.

You claim to know the bible, yet also call it "highly flawed." By what standards do you determine what is flawed? As a practicing Episcopalian, do you adhere to the articles of religion, or are they, too, "flawed"? Is this based on scripture, tradition, and/or reason? If not, then what exactly do you believe? What is the basis for forming your understanding of Christian ethics?

You see, the moment you start throwing stuff out, you've already compromised your belief system. I simply want to know if your decisions on what is acceptable vs. "flawed" aren't just some arbitrary decision, based on what makes you uncomfortable. That book has been around for thousands of years, and it seems unlikely that it has suddenly become irrelevant in the last century. And throughout church history, its doctrine and beliefs have been formed around scripture as the primary means of God's revelation to humanity. What changes is our interpretation and understanding of scripture, not the message.

[xchrom]

36. where to begin?

it's a very grand statement to say people don't take marriage seriously anymore when the idea of leaving who we marry strictly up to two individuals based solely on their romantic feelings is so new.

people take their lives very seriously -- and it's very easy for someone to sit in a position of judgement and claim that somebody else isn't serious.
more, it's not helpful or wise.

and i don't think that christian exceptionalism is helpful either -- why disrespect someone obtains a civil marriage?

we get married because of ''love'' -- getting divorced because we fall out of love is perfectly legitimate.

yes i call the bible flawed -- we have a document where god tells his followers when in war to kill every last man, woman and child -- or in the case of jericho burn the town down with all the occupents inside.
that's pretty flawed.
christ probably DIDN'T say all the things he did in the gospels.
how about all the books in the bible that paul DIDN'T actually write? -- they are more than the ones he did.
what about paul's mysoginism?
the bible tells me and it should be telling you that it applies it's ethics situationally -- a reasoning believer would try to even that out.

our version of marriage isn't based on the bible -- after all the church didn't bother to marry the poor for a very long time.
it's our view that the scritpture is ''precious'' that keeps us in the dark -- rather than using the brain that god gave us to change and embrace change -- i.e. understanding the bible as allegory and metaphor -- a direction finder rather than as a chain that keeps us rooted in ignorance and slavery.

i'm not against marrige -- marriage is fine -- but it's time that become something other than an ''institution'' which is a dead thing.
marriage is a human thing -- and wonderful for all that -- ephemeral, changeable, it can live and it can die -- joyous and destructive and everything in between.

i prefer a faith{and by extension marriage -- if done with a religous perspective} that's living and breathing -- that offers me and others guidance and support no matter what happens.

[Nikia]

38. I am going to disagree w/you. agree more w/Rev

I think that it is a bad idea to marry someone based solely on romantic feelings. If you enter relationships based only on these feelings, you will probably have a series of relationships lasting no more than a few years. It has been proven that people are usually "in love" for a relatively short period of time. Also, couples deciding to marry should seriously consider whether they could really handle joining their lives with their partner. Some people are very independent types who really don't want to join their lives with anyone or if they did would have to a looser association than many marriages (A looser association might work, but the potential spouse has to understand how things will be before entering marriage). Other times, we are willing to put up with certain habits in our friends and loved ones but not if these habits would affect us much (such as compulsive shopping).
I don't mean to offend anyone who is divorced or is divorcing but I think that Jesus's message about divorce was part of his revolutionary teaching( just like love your enemies, not just your friends and family). The old law gave permission for divorce, while Jesus preached that it wasn't right. Of course back then, a divorced woman often faced more hardships than divorced partners do now. I think that the idea is the same in a way. You make a promise when you marry and if you hurt your spouse when you divorce because you are no longer in love, you aren't really doing the right thing especially considering why some people fall out of love. Some people "fall out of love" because their spouse has lost his/her job, their spouse has developed a debilitative or terminal illness, their spouse has gained weight, or someone richer or more attractive is interested in them. I think Jesus would still say that these people weren't doing the right thing. I think the point that the Rev was making about Christian marriage is that since not divorcing is a Christian message that it is not relevent for people who are not entering into Christian marriage. I don't think that what the Catholic Church did in regards to marriage centuries ago has any bearing on Jesus's message because they did a lot of other theological things that were not in accordance with Jesus's message either. I think that whether or not some people were officially married that they considered themselves married and were recognized by the community.
If you marry and divorce, whether or not, you may have hurt your spouse, it is ultimately your decision whether or not you did anything wrong. People aren't bound by Church teachings and most churches don't really see anything as an unforgiveable sin to hold against you for a long time. Ultimately, I believe that we are judged by our own conscience.

[xchrom]

39. never never land.

people marry -- today -- for romantic reasons -- whether you like it or not.

how do you propose people go about finding out if their ''love'' is deeper and more meaningful than ''love''? and who between the two is the arbiter if there is one?

and again the bad smell of christian exceptionalism rears it's all too ugly head -- who isn't one of the flock of christ's?
are you the determiner?
after all christ himself calls to him those who the rest of us do not know.

and you miss the point of christ's message re: marriage -- christ again is trying to show us the folly of espousing earthly perfection.
it cannot be done.

marriage did not start out as a sacrament -- and it shouldn't be one today.

we as christians are not special -- that would be repugnant to christ.
we just are -- that's all -- full of sin and error -- getting it right and getting it wrong.

trying our best to believe and love and doing good works.

[RevCheesehead]

40. LOL

I can't believe that you are attempting to lecture me about scripture. That's pretty funny.

What you haven't said is what you think the purpose of marriage is. For some, it's simply permission to have sex. For you, apparently, it is an undetermined amount of time that is spent with someone you think you love - at least for the time being. Once that feeling is gone, the marriage is done? It seems to me that that's what DATING is about - not marriage.

I mentioned in my original post that I was speaking within the context of a Christian marriage - as a sacrament, as an institution - which brings with it certain expectations. What I, and the church, call a lifetime commitment - you seem to call casual and convenient. To me, that's making a mockery of marriage. If you're not in it for the long haul, then why the hell do you want to be married?

Obviously, we have very different views on the subject - and frankly, I am done with tolerating the insults and thinly-veiled digs. Respond if you will - but I am through with this conversation.

[Wapsie B]

33. But like it or not guilt is most certainly a byproduct

of religion's influence on marriage. No one is saying that there needs to be a Church's blessing or validation for a divorce. Religion seems to want the good without having to take responsibility for the bad, ie deeming people bad or failures for ending a marriage. Thank god we've evolved at least a little from the days where people stayed married no matter what, and I do mean no matter what.

[RevCheesehead]

35. Nonsense.

Guilt is a by-product if you allow it to be one.
Only you can decide whether or not you feel guilty. If you honestly believe that you've done nothing wrong, then where does the guilt come from? Cinderella? The fact that you didn't "live happily ever after"?
And if your church is dictating that all marriages should endure, no matter what, then why do you stay there?

The UM Church actually has a service acknowledging the divorce and ending of a marriage. It is a beautiful way for people to make this event in their life an opportunity for healing and moving ahead.

I don't understand how people are getting messages of guilt from the church. I don't see it in my congregations - and we have not only members, but also clergy, who have been divorced, and remarried.

That being said, I will admit that members of other denominations do face a shitload of trouble. In fact, I was asked to do a wedding for a Baptist couple, because their pastor refused to do so. He claimed that since their exes were still living, to be remarried would be commiting adultery in the eyes of God. And in the same breath, he told them to go find a Methodist pastor, because "they'll marry anyone."

Maybe I ought to just say - again - that bad experiences, guilt, anger, lousy treatment, etc.., does happen in some churches. But I think it's a mistake to paint ALL churches into that corner. Some of us take very different views on life than the more conservative churches do.

[mdmc]

32. you have touched on something here, awol.

Impermanence. Nothing is forever. www.rigpa.org

[Guava Jelly]

37. I think we associate our mate with the feeling of home

security,a constant if you will.
My girl of almost 18 years has never been with another man sexually and at 37 she is now lets say on the prowl.
I went and am going through a pretty rough time right now knowing she has butterflys for a coworker.
Right now my home does not feel like a home.Everyone has fantasys and everything changes.Some changes hurt pretty bad..trust me.
I have no desire to go through the extreme life change that the next 6 months will probably bring.
The loss of familiarity, our cats, or friends..
evolving is painful people change yet others don't change.
I think love only exist through your family.

I wonder what ever happened to the old love the love that kept couples together for decades..I wanna be the old old man with the old old lady..But i have my doubts

[tigereye]

41. I guess I was raised with the idea that marriage is permanent

and that there would have to be extreme reasons to end it. This is probably due to the fact that I was raised as a Catholic with parents who have been married for nearly 50 years, for good or ill.

I am fortunate that my husband and I had a strong bond when we met and have maintained that bond through living together, marriage, having a kid, career and job changes and other challenges. We work hard to stay married, and there are times when I agree with the Rev that it seems too easy to leave a marriage these days. I think there are marital stages that you go through and that some of them can be quite difficult. I also see situations in my work where divorces make a lot of sense, and some that make little sense to me. What is also difficult seems to be the conflict between growth of self in the individuals and that marital commitment. It would be wonderful if that were a less difficult conundrum.

I liked this statement that the Rev made:

"A covenant is a commitment, and a marriage covenant, IMO, is one entered into with a commitment for life (provided both are actively working on and living out their covenant to one another). I place a high value on marriage not because of children, but because I think that people need to understand that when you make a promise, you stick to it."