I Feel Bad for Dateline's "Sexual Predators"

[Jack_Dawson]

Obviously something fucked up happened to them in childhood, which some undercover cop exploits and lures them out of their otherwise productive lives to ruin them on national television for our viewing pleasure while everyone thumps their chest for "getting another criminal off the street"

I just can't believe it's that simple.

Obviously there are some real creeps in the bunch and what the fuck they are doing in a house to meet some 14 year old girl I have no idea. Maybe I have too much faith in my fellow man but I can't believe all those dopes were there to rape some kid.

Signed,

Hopelessly Naive

[liberalitch]

1. A little like opening a candy store and then arresting everyone....

who get tooth decay.
While I agree that most of these people belong UNDER the jail, I smell entrapment.

[ET Awful]

2. It's no more entrapment thana sting operation targeting prostitutes

or johns using a decoy.

[liberalitch]

4. You're right about that.....

I just see loopholes in convicting these gyus that I wish weren't there.
We need convictions not entertainment.... I'm sure you agree.

On the prostitution thing: Legalize it..... Centralize it.
Protect the "entreprenuers" against disease, poverty, and violence by pimps/johns.... some argue that legalization would also help eliminate child prostitution.

[Jack_Dawson]

6. Why ISN'T Prostitution Legal?

I never understood that. :shrug:

[liberalitch]

14. because women would have a great deal of control in that....

situation....
can't have that!
Come on, put on your puritanical thanking cap!

[Heidi]

19. I salute you.

The pro-lifers want to protect our bodies from us, and the sex police wants to protect us from our bodies. In neither scenario does our privacy and self-determination figure in.

:hi:

[liberalitch]

22. Who are we except the breeding machines that live in these bodies?

Now get back into the kitchen to make someone some breakfast!
....and take those shoes off before you go!

[Heidi]

24. Smarty-pants.

It's nearly 5 p.m. here; about time for my husband to bring me a beer. :evilgrin:

[liberalitch]

25. Where are you? And is his name edith?

[Heidi]

26. I'm in Switzerland

and his (DU) name is Call Me Wesley. :hi: (Please note: I usually get my own beer if I want one, and my name isn't Archie.)

[Jack_Dawson]

30. Are you a Swiss Citizen?

Random. :beer:

[Heidi]

38. I will have dual citizenship this year.

I think it's important to be educated about and to vote on public issues in the country where I live. In a direct democracy like Switzerland, the vote has even more power. :thumbsup:

Yes, the beer's OK here.

[Heidi]

15. I've never understood it, either.

Everybody's gotta make a livin'. I make my living with my mind and hands, and I see nothing wrong with another person making a living with his/her body. (But every time I get into this debate on DU, trouble ensues. :eyes:)

:hi:

[liberalitch]

20. Apparently our vaginas make us stupid......

who would have thought there was a direct connection?

[henslee]

44. Oh my god. So that's it.

[LisaL]

52. The episode dealt with pedophiles visiting homes of

underage children. All the legal hookers in the world is not going to do any good, so why even bring it up? Or do you think that availability of the hooker is somehow going to cure a pedophile? Some of the men caught had wives-that sure as hell didn't stop them. And you think a hooker would? Do you think prostitution should be legal for children too?

[LisaL]

51. These people are interested in children, not grown women.

How on Earth do you think that legalizing prostitution is going to work on pedophiles?

[ET Awful]

9. First you have to understand what entrapment actually entails.

In this case (as with all those involving the folks at pervertedjustice.com), the decoys do not approach the alleged criminal. They simply wait to be approached.

Thus, it's not entrapment. The pedophile initiates the exchange, pursues the relationship, etc. It doesn't constitute entrapment.

[liberalitch]

11. yesterday DA's being interviewed had very different takes on this....

Some were agreeing with you, more said even the hint of a set-up was grounds for appeal that they weren't happy with

[ET Awful]

27. Without such sting operations, there would be very few arrests made

for crimes such as pedophilia, stalking, drug sales, etc.

A sting operation does not constitute a successful appeal.

Even with a sting operation, when an adult shows up at the house of who he believes to be a 12 year old child with alcohol, condoms, etc., it shows intent, not only to conduct lewd acts with a minor, but several other charges can come into play, the alcohol adds a charge of contributing to the delinquency of a minor or providing alcohol to a minor, depending on local laws, etc.

I wouldn't go as far as RKZ with punishment, but anyone who willfully seeks out who they believe to be a minor in order to carry out sexual acts with that minor needs to be put away, and for a very long time.

As was demonstrated by the program last night, repeat offenders are very common, short jail terms are insufficient. If common sense prevailed, we would empty the jails of all non-violent first time drug offenders who are serving mandatory minimum sentences, and use the space to house sexual predators for a period commisserate with their crimes (I say a mandatory minimum of 15 years without parole for attempting to perform lewd acts on a minor and a minimum sentence of 30 years for actually performing said acts, all to be served in general population, not protective custody, and all with no possibility of parole).

[Heidi]

28. As a former victim advocate, I can tell you that

one of the reasons such tactics are deemed necessary is that so few victims (children, adults, both male and female) of sexual assault are willing to come forward. In the case of internet-related "enticement" crimes, the minors often are unwilling to tell an adult they've been approached in an inappropriate way by an adult, because the teens are afraid of being held responsible for their part in these exchanges. Ya know, giving a 13-year-old unlimited, unsupervised internet access is no different than raising your kid in dangerous neighborhood and leaving all the unlocked. Parents have a responsibility, too, in these cases.

Too, do we believe that all these folks recently arrested are completely irredeemable? If there are no prior offenses in the defendant's record, why not order in-patient treatment? Fact is, most people convicted of sex crimes are eventually going to be released into society, and for my tax dollars, I'd rather have a pound of cure than a pound of flesh.

[Jack_Dawson]

32. Are you an attorney?

You sound like one. No offense intended. :beer:

[ET Awful]

39. Spent 8 years as a paralegal

Nope, not an attorney. I left the paralegal field for IT work many moons ago :P

[RandomKoolzip]

3. Entrapment or not, anyone with pedophile tendencies

who decides to ACT on those tendencies deserves slow castration using a plastic knife, and I'd be happy to supply it.

Fuck them.

[liberalitch]

5. Agreed..... I just want them IN..... for a long time.

These shows are grounds for appeals.

[Beausoir]

31. Agreed. What's to feel sorry for?

These are the scum of the earth.

[Orsino]

34. The chance that without the entrapment, they might not...

...have approached or harmed anyone.

Might. As I understand it, these were men already on the prowl, so can I be glad that they're put away and still sorry that they're going to be put away for not harming anyone?

There is just a whiff of "fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" to the affair. Just enough that I'm uncomfortable.

[Jack_Dawson]

35. Well put

Like the fight them over there analogy. A whiff indeed.

[Frank Cannon]

7. How many "let's feel bad for the pedophile" threads do we need on DU?

Jesus Hernandez Christ! This is probably the third thread I've seen on this exact topic.

I guess there's just nothing else going on in the world, and so little real injustice, that we have to go feel sorry for dirtbags that pick up 14-year-olds online, go to meet them, and then get punk'd on TV for it.

No wonder the "other side" points to us like we're all a bunch of off-the-deep-end whackos.

[Jack_Dawson]

8. I'm not the first?

That really pisses me off.

[liberalitch]

12. Don't get down about it... there's a lot of repetition here....

BUT yours is the BEST!!!!!
Feel better?

[Jack_Dawson]

29. I do now...thanks!

:pals:

[liberalitch]

10. You're mssing the point of many of the posts in this thread.....

obviously there is sarcasm....
the dateline show..... entraps these scumbags and then when they are arrested what do you think is the first thing that their lawyers argue to get them back out on the street with our kids?
Public humiliation is not enough for me.... I want jail time, I don't want them out pending appeal, I don't want to be entertained I want real solutions.

[DS1]

13. Me too

I think they should be provided a sex-worker of the gender they were initially seeking, so they can learn that older women/men know how to do it better and they won't go after any more kids

:crazy:

[liberalitch]

16. That would imply that YOU TOO want prostitution legalized....

Tha's anti-merican

[DS1]

18. It's not prostitution, it's a national sexual healthcare program

[liberalitch]

23. That would imply that we have to put more money into....

mental health.
Nope sorry, can't do that!

[LisaL]

54. WTF does grown women have to do with it?

Many pedophiles are married. They do not become pedophiles because they can not find a woman of their own age. They are sexually attracted to children, having grown women available is not going to change that.

[DS1]

67. Oh, did I leave out the sarcasm tag?

I thought it was obvious

[SKKY]

17. I'm with RandomKookZip on this one...

...absolutely no mercy.

[liberalitch]

21. AND no grounds for appeal!!!!!!

[sarahinmexico]

41. Agreed

Let them rot. There should be zero mercy.

[Radical Activist]

33. Basic rights, like entrapment limitations, are there for the worst people.

The people we like don't need protections like that. I don't think its right to suspend the basic principles behind our legal system, even for the most horrible people, like child predators.

On another note, if these men are sick for going to meet a 14 year old girl (and they are) then what are we supposed to say about the fashion industry that routinely recruits models in the 13-17 year age range and plasters them on billboards and catalogs, sometimes in very little clothing. Using them as sex objects in that way is not much better, in my mind.

[caty]

36. Before I started working with the public,

I thought that most people pretty much thought the way that I do. Ethical--logical--compassionate. But, I soon found out that some people are just on a different wave length. They think that the rules just don't apply to them.

I read a long time ago that there are three types of people.
Someone who will tell you that they will screw you over and do it as soon as they get the chance.
Someone who will tell you that they would never screw you over, but will do it as soon as they get the chance.
Someone who honestly believes that they would never screw you over, but if the situation is right--they do.

Once you realize that not every one processes thoughts the way you do, you start to understand how they can do something you would never do.

[Jack_Dawson]

37. So everyone eventually screws you over?

C'mon now. BTW which public are you working with? I used to bartend and came to believe everyone is an alcoholic and extremely unfunny when they are trying to be funny. But after I quit I remembered there a lot of cool people too.

[caty]

53. There are exceptions to every rule.

Of course there are those who would never do anything on purpose to hurt you. But, the point is that not every one follows the same logic. Their right could be our wrong. Some people honestly believe that they are exempt from some laws. They think that they are so intelligent or so special that the rules shouldn't apply to them or they can just get away with it.

[Radical Activist]

40. I want to know when someone is going to go after the Burger King

I swear that man is a pervert. Crawling into bed with people, peeping into windows. Creepy.

[nytemare]

64. Yeah, but the guy can play some mean football.

:D

I wonder if he is a free agent this year?

[Beware the Beast Man]

42. I don't feel sorry for them at all.

But on the other hand, Dateline is really exploiting this for ratings, and that reporter is so smug it's irritating. Oh, yeah, and it's entrapment, too; but then again, how else are these guys going to be caught.

I half agree with you. These guys should have a chance for rehabilitation, but to feel sorry for them? Not so much.

[Jack_Dawson]

43. Go Seahawks!

:hide:

[DainBramaged]

45. Pitchers and catchers in days, just days, winter fecking over then

God those people creeped me out. I can't feel sorry for none of them, not for one second. The word is choice. You either choose to be a deviant or you choose to stay off the web and stop chasing children.

Sorry castrate them all.

Trim the pluming. Because our current system isn't working. And no matter how much anyone screams at me, until you have a better idea, plug the pluming for good. Rehab isn't working, punishment or the threat therein isn't working, and they have open season on the internet.

[Wapsie B]

46. It isn't that simple.

Obviously just building more prison cells isn't working. Prostitution should be legalized in all of the U.S. But with pedos there isn't a way to make them change. That truly is a menace to society that should not be tolerated. Empty the cells filled with those there for possession and leave them for the murderers, rapists and molesters like these. But then the prison building lobby would be up in arms.

[mongo]

47. I can't believe how stupid they all were

I only saw about a half hour of the show -- but Jesus, how stupid do you have to be to actually try to act out in this way -- with someone you've never met, at an unknown house, etc.?

I have to wonder if prostitution was completly legal if this behavior would go down. If guys had a safe outlet to act out their (albeit sick) fantasies. Perhaps what most of them need most is just an outlet for their sexual impluse, and due to their lack of social skills, whatever, they find that a child is the best available option.

Another thing about the show that caught my attention was Mike's hard lemonade. They had blurred out logos on clothes, etc - but not the Mikes -- right there on the counter, and the reporter even mentioned it a couple of times.

What kind of twisted, sick marketing is that? "Mike's hard lemonade -- the preferered enticement for child molesters!". WTF?

[LisaL]

50. Considering their fantasies involve young children,

legalizing prostitution is not going to do anything in solving this particular problem. Unless, of course, you think that it should be legal to sell young children into prostitution.

[mongo]

55. Of course I don't think it should be legal to sell kids

into prostitution.

But some of the guys on the show last night were a few bricks shy of a load. I'm not sure that if they had legal (adult) sex available to them, they would have gone for a minor.

[LisaL]

57. That argument doesn't hold water. They could have

gone for finding an adult hooker, albeit illegal, if that is what they wanted. But they didn't.

[no name no slogan]

56. It only proves that these guys are ill

If you're compulsion is so strong that you knowingly walk into a situation like this (for fuck's sake, SOME of them WALKED RIGHT IN while the cops were still out front making an arrest!!!) it just proves that these guys have little/no control over what they are doing.

They need to be treated as not just criminals, but as people who have a very serious and contagious deadly disease. They need to be locked up securly in hospitals and treated with intensive therapy. Even then, the recidivism rate amongst molesters is still high, so they need to be monitored intensely for the rest of their lives.

But it's doubtful a society like ours would bother with that. It's much easier to kill them or let them rot in a cell somewhere, where they can be totally useless to society.

[LisaL]

59. So, now pedophiles are insane?

Good god, WTF is wrong with some of you people? But I think castration should be very beneficial in terms of their treatment.

[no name no slogan]

61. Yes, they are. Go check your DSM for proof

The American Pschologic Association lists Pedophilia as a mental illness. It has been recognized as such since 1968.

To wit:

American Psychiatric Association Arlington, Va., June 17, 2003

Pedophilia, included in the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) since 1968, continues to be classified as a mental disorder. The DSM is the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals and provides clear, objective descriptions of mental illnesses, based upon scientific research. Pedophilia is categorized in the DSM-IV-TR as one of several paraphilic mental disorders. The essential features of a Paraphilia are recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors that generally involve nonhuman subjects, children, or other nonconsenting adults, or the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one’s partner.

Facts can be such meddlesome things :eyes:

[LisaL]

62. Mental illness and insanity are not one and the same.

Although I frequently see that people confuse the two on DU.
:spank:

[no name no slogan]

63. They aren't mutually eclusive, though...

Having spent time in psych wards (as a patient AND visitor) I'm aware of that. :D

[Whoa_Nelly]

65. They showed the Smirnoff, mentioned it a couple of times

and showed the Reddy-Whip another sicko brought when the "teen" said she liked pie.

If these pedophiles, these child-stalkers, some with a criminal history of the same, had not been caught in the sting operation, it would have been other kids, girls and boys, preyed upon by these same men.

It was estimated that during the time of the sting going on that another AT LEAST 17 other kids were preyed upon, and those deviant creeps got away with it.

[LisaL]

48. Oh boy.

If a grown man is going to a house where he knows a young child is going to be alone-and that man had communicated to that child his desire to have sex with the child-what exactly do you think that man is planning on doing in there? Drinking tea and eating cookies? You should have signed your post as hopelessly stupid.

[Fleshdancer]

49. A lot of people had fucked up things happen in their childhood....

but most people don't troll around for underage sex. Actions have consequences and if someone makes the royally STUPID mistake of making a date with a kid, then I'm not going to feel bad when they get caught. I like getting these idiots off the street just as much as I like getting the bank robber off the street or wife beaters or assholes like Kenneth Lay. I don't see why pedophiles deserve more (or any) sympathy than any other criminal. As far as the schadenfreude goes, I have to admit that it is entertaining but then again, so is watching Abromoff and Scooter get hauled off to jail. At the end of the day, they're all stupid assholes for engaging in stuff they know will get them in trouble if caught.

On the flip side of the argument though, society bears a responsibility of not sexualizing our youth. Nothing pisses me off more than seeing an 11 year old girl wearing a midriff or a 13 year old sporting a playboy bunny logo on her shirt. From Bratz dolls and video hoes to the Britney Spearization of our girls, it gives the impression that their sexuality is for our (society's) consumption and not their own. As a mother of a 5 year old girl, this scares the living shit out of me.

[El Fuego]

58. It is sad the way they actually want to talk to the reporter.

You would think they would say, "I'm out of here" and run. But many of them sit down and talk to the reporter because they seem to be so lonely.

[LisaL]

60. Yes, it's so sad.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Nikia]

66. While I don't know if it should be televised

Those men believe that they are going to meet a sexually receptive child. These operations are done because the scenario of a pedephile meeting a child on the internet and then arranging to have sex with them does happen often. These men go out of their way to go to meet someone who they think is a child. What else would they be planning upon doing other than having sex, especially if they arrive with condomns and alcohol.

[buddhamama]

68. i do feel bad

for "underage" teenage boys who have sex with their "underage" teenage girlfriends, parents of said of girls find out, freak, press charges, and the boys are labeled as predators. tis BS!

[Fleshdancer]

70. I didn't think a minor could be labeled as a sexual predator

in the scenario you describe, wouldn't the girl also be considered a predator? :shrug:

[flashdebadge]

69. It's rather scary to think there are people out there that think it's ok

to do this. Strangely enough, some of them will readily admit that they know it's not right, but are "driven" to do it anyway. I saw this program and would disagree that any of them went to the girls house to simply "comfort" her while her parents were out. I say this because all of them admitted to chatting about sex or sexual acts with her. That is not a subject that is breached if your sole interest is in comforting the child.