Okay has anyone seen the documentary "Grizzly Man"

[MadMaddie]

I am so interested in other viewers opinions about this Timothy Treadwell. I didn't want to watch it and my partner insisted so I did...Okay.. Wow..This film freaked me out...
If you haven't seen it you should....

<clip>
Having presumed he could live safely among the grizzly bears of the Alaskan wilderness, the outdoors man and author (Among Grizzlies)--along with his partner, Amie Huguenard--was eventually killed and devoured by one of the very animals to whom he had devoted years of study <clip>

Here is a link to the company that produced the film...
http://www.lionsgatefilms.com/profile/grizzlyman.php

[SmokingJacket]

1. Yes, and I'd love to talk about it.

I used to work in grizzly bear conservation...

Werner Herzog is an amazing filmmaker.

[MadMaddie]

5. I don't even know where to start

In my opinion Timothy Treadwell traded one addiction for another "an obsession with bears"!!

My partner and I disagree on this, in my opinion he wasn't an educated scientist familiar with the intricacies of the animal kingdom. I mean in my mind you just don't insert yourself into the "Grizzly Bear" environment for a couple of years and think you are one of them.

I am not a bear expert but....I would think it's common sense!!

[Wetzelbill]

10. he definitely had a void to fill, I think

whether he did it with drugs, alcohol, food, love or in his case his passion for bears, he definitely had something he needed to be occupied with. Not sure if you could call it an addiction or what, but I would agree that you are on to something.

[SmokingJacket]

My theory, okay, and this is really reaching...

is that he had severe problems with intimacy and other humans. I think he was probably intimidated by other people, especially men. He empathized with bears and wished he could be one -- he felt he understood them better than he understood people. He seemed to impose twisted, cutesy feelings onto them... but that's just my opinion.

Also, as far as I could tell, he wasn't DOING anything out there, just hanging around stalking and taunting the poor animals. He kept saying he was "guarding" them; how so? He did get some great footage. But it wasn't worth it; he should have stayed further away and let them be.

Treadwell and people like him do massive and lasting damage to bears. The worst thing for them is to become acclimated to humans. When bears are used to humans, they start hanging around campgrounds, eating human food (which is bad for them) and eventually getting themselves shot or dependent on scavenging rather than hunting.

He also did a lot of damage to environmentalists: he's a kook and gets all the publicity, while there are a lot of people working quietly doing important work saving habitat and NOT imagining themselves as the star of a Discovery Channel show. I'm sure he was genuinely fond of the grizzlies, but he was also a little too fond of the way he looked in his bandanas, leaping through the underbrush.

His friends claimed he would be honored to be eaten by a bear; someone even claimed he hoped to be bear scat one day. Well, that's nuts, because he must have known that if he was eaten by a bear, the bear wouldn't live long enough to shit him out. And he shouldn't have dragged the woman along. How pathetic that he had her duck out of the shots so that it would look like he was alone in the wilderness...

okay, rant off!:rant:

I thought Herzog did a fine job of showing the story without bias either way.

[MadMaddie]

34. I do agree that he hurt legitimate environmentalist...

What will happen is that people will point to him and say look at the "nutty environmentalist" and the real environmentalist message is lost.

I think it is a sad commentary on the human condition. If you feel so alienated from other humans that you have to find another "family unit" to belong to.

I wouldn't think being out in the wilderness for that long by himself is healthy, if he already had issues I would think being alone only made them worse..

I also think that his friends enabled his behavior, they fed his addiction in a way.

Herzog did a great job!!

[XOKCowboy]

24. He was there for 13 summers

Not just a couple of years. The shots he took boths still and video were with standard lenses which means that he was within feet of the bears instead of hundreds of yards like most photogs. He did establish a relationship with that clan of bears. It was when he went back (after a fight with a gate agent at the airport) and his regular bears had gone that he got in trouble with one, elderly, somewhat abused inland bear he'd never met.

It was an amazing documentary. I had so many different emotions watching it. Herzog did a helluva job.

[Atlas Mugged]

43. I love Herzog

He's the main reason I watched "Grizzly Man".

Poor Timothy was self deluded beyond control. Whoever made the comment about "trading one addiction for another" was spot on.

The part where they listend to the tape was heartbreaking, regardless of how foolish Treadwell's actions were.

[BuyingThyme]

2. Good stuff. They didn't let him portray himself the way he planned.

The most disappointing thing was the over-coaching of the interviewees.

[karlrschneider]

3. People have eaten bears for centuries.....and vice versa.

I have no cogent response to your post...except to comment that the 'food chain' doesn't always hang vertical-wise.
:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

9. It always bemuses me when man thinks he can choose his link ...

... in the food chain. As a once-avid scuba diver, I eschewed diving with 'hunters' - folks who confidently took their presumptive place in the food chain. Whether off the California coast or in the Caribbean or off Tahiti's many shores, Nature has designed a beautifully mutable and adaptable symphony of life - with all its counterpoints. The majority of my dives have been in the company of sharks - possibly the most perfectly designed predators and beautifully adapted scavengers on the planet. Man's chopsticks arrogance in the face of such a symphony is tragicomic indeed.

[seabeyond]

20. shark attack show after grizzly man. hubby walked in and said, take

it you wont be swimming in the ocean in akumal next months. nope i say. i will be on the shore waving to yawl

[TahitiNut]

36. It might be a ketch, not a yawl.

:dunce:

[derby378]

4. Saw some of it - wow

Yet another instance of dogma getting the better of the real world. Plus, I think that Timothy was either weary of the human world or possibly fighting some sort of mental illness. However, the images that he took of the Alaskan wilderness were truly amazing. This was a man who was totally and inexorably committed to what would prove to be his life's work.

[scudrunner]

15. Mad as a Hatter

Just watched superbowl with an Alaskan native.This guy has 30 yrs of living in the bush,and has had several scary encounters with Grizzlies,the movie really unnerved him.He was amazed Treadwell survived so many encounters with bears.

[seriousstan]

6. I ate it up!

:evilgrin:

[Robb]

45. (rimshot)

:D

[MadMaddie]

7. The film footage and photos were excellent...

I just don't know if they were worth his life. In the last piece of footage he admitted that his tent was in the wooded areas instead of an open area.

I thought it was telling of how brutal the attack was when the coroner had to pause and discuss what he heard on the last moments of Timothy and his girlfriends life.

[seabeyond]

21. that was something huh. talking about the recording

to have a recording of their death.

[LostinVA]

50. That is just truly horrible -- in some ways, I think it's

worse than if you could see everything, too.

[Wetzelbill]

8. at first I thought he was going to be a total moron

I mean, seriously, who the hell goes and hangs out with grizzly bears? However, once I watched the film I was amazed at how long he was able to survive. It blew me away. He lived for thirteen summers in tune with these animals. There has got to be more than just dumb luck to that. His relationship with the foxes was heartwarming too. The problem, in the end, was that he stayed too long in the maze and the wilder bears from deeper in the bush came down to where he was at. The guy in many ways was special. No doubt about that. He may have has some problems with anxiety or depression or something, but I have no doubt his heart was good and he had a special relationship with those bears. You just can't live with wild animals though. It's bound to end badly. Yet, Treadwell's life and this film were both remarkable I thought. Really enjoyed it.

[roguevalley]

11. The bears tolerated him.. They let him live. If they hadn't wanted

to, he would have been dead a long time ago. My friend has a deck next to a river and when spring came a grizzly and her yearling crawled out from under it where they had slept all winter. It still makes the hair stand up on my arms because she stood out on it all winter long enjoying the view and she didn't know. Another gal lives on a bear trail she is finding out and a big grizzly almost got into her house. The bear prints are still on her windows. We live with grizzlies everyday here and there is no WAY he did the right thing here. He did what he did for some demon of his own but he didn't do right.

He was around too long and the old bears, the ones having trouble hunting, got him. They got a bullet in their heads because of him and the people who came for them have lifelong memories of what they saw. THe native folks up here think he was showing no respect for the bears doing what he did.

I have to agree. when they turn and stare at the camera with their dead eyes, its like looking into shark eyes. people die up here every year from these guys. This man was playing and delaying the inevitable.

I am sorry for him and especially for his girl who was always terrified of them but it was inevitable when you don't respect the power in front of you enough.

[Wetzelbill]

17. I've seen a few up close

I'm from Montana, and live not too far from Glacier National Park. He may have thought he was doing something good, but he really should not have been there. You just can't do that. Wild animals are wild animals. You have to respect their lives and what they can do.

Once at my Aunt's house, a young grizzly was caught in a cage trap just down the road from their place. I was about 6 give or take a year or so, and we went down near the trap and saw it was in there. My aunt, mom and everybody else left me alone there to watch it, while they ran home to get my Uncle and Dad and called the Park rangers or whomever they needed to call. It was the longest couple minutes of my life! I mean I still have no idea why they left me there. What if Momma Grizzly was still running around enraged or something? I would have been deader than a doornail. Those things are scaaaarry. You just can't mess around with something like that.

[seabeyond]

26. lol lol the poor child in you. wow. that is sad, and scary n/t

[Wetzelbill]

28. yeah I think

the adults panicked or something. I would have been barely an appetizer anyway. I wasn't worth eating, thank Bukowski. :)

[Atlas Mugged]

44. Hi, Wetzelbill

Did you know Bruce Lee in Missoula?

[LostinVA]

51. Good post n/t

[fishwax]

14. that's a nice post

and I agree with much of what you've said there. I really enjoyed the movie, and found Treadwell inspiring in a weird way (not that I've any plans to move to the bush or anything) ... I don't entirely understand what seems to be the default reaction (here on DU and elsewhere) that he was an idiot, etc. He knew the risks, and the documentary made that very clear. They were just risks he was willing to take. I've no plans to ever climb mount everest, for example, but when people die doing it, I don't automatically think they're a dumbass for doing something dangerous ...

[Wetzelbill]

23. he is oddly inspiring

I admire his passion. Just don't agree with the way he went about it and all. I can't fault the guy for caring though. He was gutsy, that's for sure.

I used to ride bulls. Some people think that's crazy. In retrospect, I kind of do as well. But, you know, in situations like that people know the risks. I loved doing it, even when I was seriously injured a few times. I knew what could happen. I guess sometimes people are willing to take risks to do something they enjoy. No matter how dangerous or weird it may seem to others.

[fishwax]

29. That's pretty cool

That you used to ride bulls. I almost tried it once--I had a friend at work that had tried, on several occasions, to make his living doing it, and he wanted to take me to a local outfit that would give me a bull to ride. (I wound up going parachuting instead.)

I think that window has closed for me, and there's probably no way I'd do it now, but I think I can understand the appeal of it, crazy though it might be. :)

[Wetzelbill]

31. I would look like a medieval knight

if I got on one now. :) I'd have every protective device I could think of on me, lol. Just wrap me in armor!

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. *blink blink* Holy cow! You used to ride bulls?

[Wetzelbill]

32. yup, back when I was in High school

It's not that crazy if you've been raised around it. I always knew that I would ride bulls, so it was just a logical next step for me at the time. I think wrestling was a million times tougher in all honesty. I liked both. Now I prefer to do safe things, like read and write, haha. :)

[Benfea]

49. The experts told him he would be eaten if he kept it up...

…and he kept it up.

That's pretty much the definition of insanity. Furthermore, as much as he loved the bears, he wasn't really doing them any good with his little stunts. Timmy was running from demons and he needed the bears a lot more than the bears needed him.

I admire his passion, but little else.

[Mnemosyne]

12. I thought he was amazing albeit a wee bit eccentric.

I believe the bears tolerated him after they learned to expect his presence. He was a special man with some possible mental illness. Many brilliant/eccentric people have some form of it.

He was brave, somewhat naive, but became careless in the end. The bear that ate him and Amie was not one that he was familiar with at least that was the impression I got. He had stayed longer and the regular bears he came in contact with had left. That was what caused their death, breaking the usual pattern and contact with the unfamiliar hungry bears.

The people interviewed did seem a bit too coached. And that horrible man that said he got what he "deserved" as if Tim deserved punishment for his caring and passion. Despicable.

He gave a damn and he tried harder in 12 years than most people ever do in their entire lives.

I wish I had the half his spirit and courage.

I wish they had shown more of his footage and spent less time with interviews. I loved his interaction with the foxes!

V

[BuyingThyme]

16. At first, I felt the same way about he "horrible man," but I came to

believe that he was simply saying that Timothy paid for the risks he took.

[Mnemosyne]

33. I agree that he paid dearly for the risks he took

but that guy was just plain smug and cold. It was as if he had hoped something would happen to him. And I bet he was a repuke! lol

I know.

V

[patrice]

13. It overwhelmed me for the better part of a week.

I guess I was kind of obsessed with questions about the nature and validity of intuition, how much he cared and how wrong he was, or was he wrong? I wonder what level his death wish functioned at and what its purpose was compared to his enthusiasm for the bears and why he involved the woman (who was afraid and resisted at first, but repressed that in favor of her attraction to him).

I first heard of TT years ago. Heard him interviewed on NPR. He told an absolutely hypnotising story about being alone watching a male and a female grizzly fight high on a mountain ridge as a big storm blew in.

I understand he was an alcoholic, so that figures very importantly into the calculus of his death.

[seabeyond]

18. i am with you all. didnt see the whole show first night. watched more

the second night and hte show has stayed with me. went to sleep visualizing the bear ripping them up. the man was odd, hubby immediately said, can you say drugs. later in the show sure enough. also he sounds bi polar, extreme high and lows. but man, .... that was a show that grabs on. i still havent seent he first half hour. would like to catch the beginning. i just could not imagine. we go camping i sleep in the trooper. had a bear clawing at tent the first time i went camping. wont do that again. just a wow to that show and the man.

[BuyingThyme]

22. I've been in that tent many times.

I keep close a 5-gallon bucket and a camp shovel. They make for a great noise maker.

[seabeyond]

25. lol. hubby had a gun. i know nothing about guns, but was clever

enough to figure, bear big gun not so big. asked hubby would that gun take down a bear. no he says, was worried about man not bear.

he the funny. the park rangers told us to put a blanket over icechest. we are laughing at them. sure enough bear got into ice chest and ate the fish and drank the coke, wink. blanket over icechest confuses them. i dont get it but wtf

[kenny blankenship]

19. Yes, watched it this evening with friends

the irony of his celebration of the bear's poop didn't sink in at first.

[fishwax]

27. I enjoyed the movie, and found him oddly inspiring

I've no plans to follow in his footsteps, of course, but I do admire that he felt a sense of mission and was willing to pursue it knowing very well that the obvious danger would most likely catch up with him eventually. I don't think he was unaware of the risks, I think he just felt it was worth it.

He certainly did seem a bit megalomaniacal and not entirely balanced, but he died doing what he loved, I suppose.

Also, to state an obvious truth that seems overlooked by many: documentaries, like fictional movies, are not reality. Docs, too, essentially present arguments and explore issues, rather than merely collecting and presenting unbiased facts in an unbiased manner. I admire Herzog as a filmmaker and think he did a great job on the movie, but the film was about the Treadwell that Herzog wanted to explore--the aspects of his life/work that spoke to Herzog, and not the objective reality of Timothy Treadwell, whatever that might be.

[SideshowScott]

35. I saw it. Great Doc..It really Sticks with you..Thoughts....

After watching it you cant help but think about the film in many ways. Tim's self destruction, The way he and his girlfriend died, was he doing the right thing or causing more harm?. I think there is a bit of Tim in all of us like when we get upset when woods and wilderness is taken away for some dumb development, wanting to save wild animals from human harm, and sometimes just getting sick of human civilization and just want to be at one with nature. I just think he forgot that that the harsh laws of nature concerns him too when out there unprotected. He really had a problem with it when encountering the dead fox and dead cubs who were eaten by other bears. I really think he thought he was, pardon the pun, smarter than the average bear when in reality he was being hunted at the end and was easy prey. I think the bears who knew him tolerated him and he knew pretty much them too..But he treated the new bears that moved in the same as the bears that knew him and that was his fatal mistake. He really should have kept his distance. But I think at that time his demons got the best of him and it clouded his judgement. It was a really sad end to a man who was quite unique. A bit nutty but still a good guy who ment well. Still not sure if he did more harm than good by being so close to something that just should be let be and admired from a distance. Sad really he was really becoming a great nature filmmaker who caught shots that ive never seen in a nature doc. He just needed help..
I think the film is one of the best docs ive ever seen. It really sticks with you days and days after you watch it.

[TomInTib]

37. Imagine what was running thru his mind in those final seconds.

[pinto]

38. I thought it was a really good piece.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. Timothy Treadwell was a foolish man...

...if he didn't know that someday he would become bear food. Grizzlies are not to be trusted.

[kid a]

40. I watched it last night - he was freaky - but a good documentary

[In_The_Wind]

41. I watched it a few weeks ago.

I thought it was extremely unusual.

[benEzra]

42. Teaching bears not to fear humans is a bad idea...

because once the bears lose their fear of humans, some smart bear out there is going to figure out that humans probably taste just as good as their other prey.

The bear(s) that killed Treadwell and his girlfriend later stalked the rescue/recovery party that came out to investigate, and were shot in self-defense at close range.

Not what Treadwell would have wanted at all, but in retrospect that's the logical result of what he was teaching the bears.



Some more details of the incident at the Alaskan Daily News: http://www.adn.com/front/story/4898071p-4833196c.html

[Robb]

47. "A fed bear is a dead bear"

...the saying around here -- which, as I think about it, may be in bad taste in this context.

But the idea is that bears that learn to interact with some humans will invariably interact with the wrong ones. Then they have to be killed.

Just my 2 cents, but TT was a megalomaniac who knew a lot about bears, and nothing about them. :(

[Benfea]

46. The man was crazy, pure and simple

Anyone who knew anything about zoology kept telling him he was nuts and he wouldn't listen.

Furthermore, although he declared himself the "protector" of those grizzlies from the encroachment of man, nothing he did actually accomplished that.

Timmy had some bad, bad demons in his head, and risking his life with the grizzlies was what kept his face out of the bottle. That was the only extent of the "bond" between him and the bears; there was nothing else.

Grizzlies are unbelievably dangerous, not because they are the largest meat-eaters on land, but because they're terribly intelligent, and therefore completely unpredictable. That's why people kept warning him to stop, and why this outcome was inevitable when he chose to ignore the warnings.

[cleofus1]

48. jeez louise

i guess timmy got what he wanted in the end...he's world famous...and people just can't help talking about him...

[GumboYaYa]

52. I was pulling for the Bears by the time it was over.

It was only a matter of time before they got him. He was a fool for doing that for 13 years. His actions did more to harm bears and humans than any good he may have achieved. The only value of his work to me is that it again proves that no matter how much we make ourselves the center of the universe, we can not conquer nature.