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HATED IT! Neil Tennant on the power of negative thinking

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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:31 AM
Original message
HATED IT! Neil Tennant on the power of negative thinking
I liked this article by Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys so much, I saved it when I found it in Details in the early 90s. Just discovered it online. Thought I'd share.

If not for hatred, I wouldn’t be doing what I do now. I became a pop star because I hated football at school. I hated that whole attitude of being one of the crowd. Becoming a pop star was my revenge. Revenge for being bad at football. For not being athletic. For being mocked.

That’s the thing about negative energy, about hatred. It can be positive. It throws into relief all the things you know you like. It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration; it makes you think, “What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.” Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd.

I hate the way people all like the same things at the same time. I’ve never understood it. When people are told about Coke – “It’s the real thing” – they should think, “No, it’s a hideous soft drink that is fantastically unhealthy to drink, full of sugar that turns into glucose that turns into fat.” They should look around America and think, “God, there are so many fat people here! Why? Because they all eat hamburgers and drink cola.” And they should hate the people who represent that. They should hate Michael Jackson for trying to foist Pepsi onto them, to make them fat victims of their own society. They should hate more. Hate Pepsi, hate Coca-Cola, hate Michael Jackson. Hate George Bush. And think about the alternatives. That’s another good thing about hatred. It makes you think about the alternatives.

Of course, these days it’s more fashionable to be positive. I hate positivity. The problem with positivity is that it’s an attitude that’s decidedly about lying back, getting screwed, and accepting it. Happily. It’s totally apolitical. It’s very, very personal and one-on-one. It’s not about changing society, it’s about caring about yourself. In fact, it’s totally about ignoring one’s economic role in society, and so it works in favor of the system. Just look at work years of personal consciousness theories have given us: those icons of the status quo, George Bush and John Major.

Positivity is fundamentally middle-class. It’s about having the time, the space and the money to sort out where your head is at. Therapy is just another side of positivity. It’s a leisure activity, a luxury for people who don’t have any real cares. It’s new age selfishness, the new way of saying that charity begins at home.

And positivity makes the world stay the same. Hatred is the force that moves society along, for better or for worse. People aren’t driven by saying, “Oh wow, I’m at peace with myself.” They’re driven by their hatred of injustice, hatred of unfairness, of how power is used.

That’s as true for pop music as it is for politics. I always feel the reason so much music comes out of Britain is because there’s so much hatred. You see or hear something and grow envious. Whereas if your positive reaction is, “Wow, that’s great,” you just sit back and think how great it is and you don’t do anything. You relax.

Luckily, I’ve never been a very relaxed person. When I look at pop music, I immediately hate things. I look at singers who say they are taking two years off to work for charity when, in fact, they’ll spend two years working on their album, and I hate them. Right now I really hate performers who make a big deal out of playing benefits and donating the proceeds from the sales of their records to charities. They could give plenty of money to charities and not tell anyone, but instead, they cash in on the fact. That’s not charity, it’s marketing. It’s about selling albums under the guise of a moral imperative. They say they’re trying to raise consciousness, as if being a celebrity gives them power and endows them with the answers to the world’s problems. But really they just want to be seen as heroes. I think it’s breathtakingly cynical and I hate it.

Another thing I hate, and another inspiration for what the Pet Shop Boys do, is the way people misunderstand pop culture. It annoys me that after more than twenty-five years, Top of the Pops, Britain’s most important pop-music TV program, changed the rules so that you have to sing live. Why? Because the people in control are the kind of conservatives who think that in the ‘60s, everything was much more talented than they are now. It’s all about Rolling Stone rock culture, which is essentially a fear of the new. Rolling Stone’s idea of a musician is Jerry Garcia, from the 60s. Look at all the ‘new’ artists – Curtis Stigers, Michael Bolton, Lenny Kravitz – all of them living in the past. I think you have to live in the future. Or at least in the present.

The Pet Shop Boys have always hated most of the prevailing attitudes and tried to do the opposite. Our hatred of what other people do has always helped us redefine our actions. To hate a lot of things is tantamount to really caring about others. If you like everything, you deal with nothing. When people hear Chris and me talking, they’re sometimes shocked by how negative we are. We’re constantly critical of everything, including ourselves. But I come from a generation that liked its artists to say what was wrong with our lives. I retain the old-fashioned belief that pop music is meant to be a challenge to society as well as an affirmation of it. And so I consider it my duty to hate things.


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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's certainly been my philosophy.
I would also add in rage as a positive motivator for social, personal, and cultural change, when used properly.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ahh, Neil...
I had a massive crush on him in the mid-80's. When I heard he was gay, I thought I would have a breakdown. LOL :cry: :loveya:
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wonderful! Thanks for posting it.
Sweet, sweet validation...
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Yeah...
apart from some of the shit-slinging in the last couple paragraphs (and the bald-faced lies), I shall give this to SouthoftheBorderPaul the next time he accuses me of being too "negative."
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Interesting, but I don't agree with this perspective AT ALL.
He admits himself: he's not relaxed, he's incredibly judgmental, he's angry, he's revengeful, he's full of hate and self-criticism for most of what he experiences in his life. Indeed, he actually DEFINES himself by what he hates. Whew. Sounds pretty sad to me, frankly.

"To hate a lot of things is tantamount to really caring about others." ???!!! That makes NO sense to me, whatsoever. Talk about double-speak. :crazy:

I furthermore disagree with his argument that positive thinking is about keeping everything the same. I believe it IS possible to be an agent for social change and raise consciousness without having to resort to hate and negativity.

I guess he must hate it when he's in a good mood. :eyes: or maybe he's just never in one....




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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hate's alright, but it's a dead-end street
I learned for myself that hate is a very shallow, poisonous well that leaves you with a very sick feeling when it runs dry. It can only take you so far before you run out.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Exactly right: "it's a shallow, poisonous well."
that's a good way of putting it, nmns.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. :pals: I felt I needed to speak up for another perspective.

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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I thought he was full of shit, and laughed at him while
Edited on Mon Feb-06-06 02:12 PM by DS1
reading it. He's obviously NOT been able to shake off everything he claims to hate and therefore leave behind.

edit: Sometimes musicians shouldn't let their sales numbers allow them to think that they are also great philosophical thinkers.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yeah, and I guess, given his philosophy, he'd NEVER do therapy
to work through all his intensely negative internal shit. I feel sorry for the guy, truthfully. He must not be very happy with his life if he's going around HATING all the time. It's a huge energy drain to do that, imo.

and I chuckled at your last comment, too. ;)
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. right back atcha, Shine
IMHO it takes too much energy to hate. Plus, by allowing that hate to exist, you're letting that problem/thing/issue/whatever control you. As long as you hold on to it, it still has power over you.

I hated for most of my life, and it literally ate me up inside. Yes, I'm still plenty angry, but I refuse to let that anger become hatred, because then you're no longer in control. And I like to be in control of my life. :pals:
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Sometimes I wonder if "control" is just an illusion we create for ourselvs
I can't control what happens to me, but I can "control", to a certain extent, how I INTERPRET what happens in a way that is EMpowering, rather than DISempowering. Do you know what I mean? :shrug:

Bottom line: I agree with you. What we resist, persists. Because, ultimately, we take ourselves WITH us, wherever we go. heheheh. ;)
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Interesting, but I have to disagree with some of this.
Edited on Mon Feb-06-06 02:29 PM by RandomKoolzip
Another thing I hate, and another inspiration for what the Pet Shop Boys do, is the way people misunderstand pop culture. It annoys me that after more than twenty-five years, Top of the Pops, Britain’s most important pop-music TV program, changed the rules so that you have to sing live.

It annoys you that musicians should have to prove to a mass audience that they're not some producer's puppet? Huh. Telling.

Why? Because the people in control are the kind of conservatives who think that in the ‘60s, everything was much more talented than they are now. It’s all about Rolling Stone rock culture, which is essentially a fear of the new.

Rolling Stone sucks the wang big time, but the insinuation that any band that deigns to play on those outdated gauche instruments like (yawn) guitars and drums is "living in the past" is EXACTLY the kind of phony cultural brinksmanship that brought us Johnny Hates Jazz, Information Society, Hipsway, Book of Love, Technotronic, C+C Music Factory, et al. from the glorious, "forward-thinking" 80's and 90's. And it's instructive that most of Rolling Stone's cover stars and feature subjects are hip hoppers or dance-pop mavens...not the contemporary rock artists outside the mainstream who are making new sounds and new forms using rock's small band format. Tennant apparently is one of those occulded self-important dorks who thinks that all music is being made in the mainstream and if he hasn't heard of it, it can't be good. What Crap. As if the possibilities offered by the small band format could ever really be exhausted!

Rolling Stone’s idea of a musician is Jerry Garcia, from the 60s. Look at all the ‘new’ artists – Curtis Stigers, Michael Bolton, Lenny Kravitz – all of them living in the past. I think you have to live in the future. Or at least in the present.

It's so hilarious when moldy post-punk veterans like Tennant or Souixsie Souix or whoever harp on their battles against the mean old sixties stars and always claim to hate "living in the past." Oh, you're living in the future, Neil? Is that why your band "plays" disco and writes show tunes to sing on top of it? So "forward thinking!" If the 60's are so over, Mr. Pet Shop Boy, why do you insist on re-fighting the battles you maintain have already been won?

A quote from Grant Hart of Husker Du(a much better musician than Neil Tennant will ever be):

"You know that stuff about tearing down the old to make way for the new? Well, music isn't city planning."

What the old Britpunk school of 77 and their destructive "forward thinking" classmates never seemed to get was the idea that punk and older rock could exist side-by-side. They actually believed their own rhetoric! (How sad.) The whole argument here is based on sociological concerns anyway; the mention of the word "conservative" next to Jerry Garcia, the disingenuous claim that Rolling Stone gives more column inches to Michael Bolton (his example) than Interpol or Beck, etc. It's obvious that Tennant is just another ex-rock critic who should have stuck to fiction; aesthetically, he's got no compass.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nice post, bud. You write well and I was interested to read your
musician's perspective. :thumbsup:

I agree: "he's got no compass."
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks.
The continual reactionary rhetoric oozing out of many postpunker's mouths will forever be a source of irritation to me.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Well, my disagreement with his "reactionary rhetoric" was for
different reasons, but you and I ultimately agree: it WAS irritating.

But hey, I don't HATE him for it! ;) heheheh.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Oh rkz
:loveya:
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I used "that word" again.
:hi:
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You did indeed
I *will* point out that this was early 90's, though, which I think deals with at least a couple of your issues.

:hi:
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It still applies.
If he was one of those class of 77 anti-rock twits who thought that Soul II Soul was better than Screaming Trees because Screaming Trees played instruments, and well, so did Led Zeppelin, which I suspect was the case, then he STILL deserves a pinched loaf down his throat.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I'm just sayin'
"And it's instructive that most of Rolling Stone's cover stars and feature subjects are hip hoppers or dance-pop mavens...not the contemporary rock artists outside the mainstream who are making new sounds and new forms using rock's small band format. Tennant apparently is one of those occulded self-important dorks who thinks that all music is being made in the mainstream and if he hasn't heard of it, it can't be good."

I dunno how much that applies
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. In the early 90's, RS WAS still covering Clapton, Garcia, et al....
...But also had a major hard-on for Madonna. If I recall correctly, Madonna made the cover of RS something like four times in 1990 or some shit. Her every move was analyzed, dissected, and reviewed as if it were as important as...as....uh, the movie stars who made the cover the other 50% of the time back then.

SPIN, on the other hand, covered good contemporary rock within its pages, but during that time devoted most of their covers and their feature articles to hip hoppers and dance poppers (Lisa Stansfield made the cover!) out of some misguided liberal guilt-thing. Byron Coley was also writing the "Underground" column for them back then, so it kind of evened out....not.

Anyway, it's not JUST Neil Tennant; I've heard this exact same argument from Souixsie Souix, J. Rotten, and the dorks in New Order, among others, and I'll always find it hilarious how self-serving and false it is.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Blah blah blah
Elitist jerkwad.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Funny; that's what my grandma used to call me.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Stop trying to dodge the issue
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The issue?


If you throw it at me, I promise I won't dodge it.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Typical male
You don't HAVE to be a patriarchal death machine
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I don't?! What a relief!
Mom always told me: "Son, there's one thing in this world that other people respect and admire, and it's a Patriarchal Death Machine. Go out and become one."

So I immediately slapped my sister and made her do the dishes. The tenor of my existence flowed from that moment.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. OK I give
you win
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Thank you! I'm so happy! I have a list of people I'd like to thank...
But before I do, let me just say that I truly do not deserve this award. And because of the increasing level of doom in this world and the attendant loss of faith, goodwill, and charity, I am refusing to accept this award for myself and on behalf of the Patriarchal Death Machine.

Instead, I shall quit myself of this award and direct it to the family of Larry Storch, to whom it sincerely belongs.

Thank you.


(scattered applause)
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. What a load of crap
There's a kernel of truth in there, in that a passion about hunger, or injustice, or social ills can drive a person to work for change but you have to have the belief that you can make it better, that change can be positive. What is that if not optimism and positive thinking? This diatribe reads as a self-promoting wad of contradictory statements.

Pop stars should stick to music and leave philosophy to those able to express themselves in something other than narcissistic rants.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate The Positive
You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

(To illustrate his last remark
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they do
Just when everything looked so dark)

Man, they said we better
Accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between
No, do not mess with Mister In-Between
Do you hear me, hmm?

(Oh, listen to me children and-a you will hear
About the elininatin' of the negative
And the accent on the positive)
And gather 'round me children if you're willin'
And sit tight while I start reviewin'
The attitude of doin' right

(You've gotta accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between)

You've got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
Bring gloom (down) down to the minimum
Otherwise (otherwise) pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

To illustrate (well illustrate) my last remark (you got the floor)
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they say (what did they say)
Say when everything looked so dark

Man, they said we better
Accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between
No! Don't mess with Mister In-Between
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. I like the attitude, BUT, it's too one sided.
Hate is a useful tool. But, too much of anything is a bad thing. It's all about the yin/yang, about hating for awhile and then loving for awhile, about being to get all passionate and firey about something and then being able to bliss out about something and be gooey and relax.

Tension AND release.
Yin AND yang.
Up AND down.
In AND out. :evilgrin:

But, intelligent pleas for moderation aren't as entertaining to read as firey polemics about negativity, so there ya go. :shrug:
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