Suit Filed Against High Schools' Exit Exam

[kay1864]

Suit Filed Against High Schools' Exit Exam
By JULIET WILLIAMS, Associated Press Writer
Thu Feb 9, 3:58 AM ET

To graduate this year, San Francisco high school senior Nadira Wasi faces a requirement that no class before hers has — the state's high school exit exam.

Wasi, 17, is part of a program for students who need extra assistance in school. She passed the English section but has twice failed the math portion.

On Wednesday, 20 high school seniors and their parents sued the state Department of Education and school Superintendent Jack O'Connell, claiming the exam is illegal and discriminatory. They worry the test may prevent the students from graduating.

"I don't think it should hold up your graduation," said Wasi, who is not part of the lawsuit but would be affected if it is successful.

I disagree. I think if you can't pass an English and math test you shouldn't graduate. I think a high school diploma should actually mean something.

[Orsino]

1. It amounts to another hurdle...

...that will disproportionately affect the poor and minorities.

If a student has already passed required courses, each of which presumably included many tests, I'm not sure that another test is generating any useful info.

But she's failed it twice. We should at least be asking why the classes this student passed didn't prepare her for this standardized test. What is the disjoint that we're not seeing?

[kay1864]

2. Well that's one of the issues I have...

Namely "passing required courses". There is tremendous pressure on teachers to pass students, qualified or not.

An exit exam, however (assuming it's well-designed and fair), is immune to those pressures.

And how do you know this exam "will disproportionately affect the poor and minorities"? Being poor makes you bad at math? Why? Because you don't have access to tutoring? (which is not the case in this school district--anyone who doesn't pass the class can get extra tutoring or enroll in summer school)

But I agree with you about asking why classes this student passed didn't prepare her for this standardized test. My guess is she was socially promoted. Or she doesn't do well on tests.

Either way, anyone who was promoted but shouldn't have been, or can't pass tests...

shouldn't graduate high school.

IMHO.

[Orsino]

4. Of course the poor and minorities will be...

...disproportionately affected. It's the public schools that are getting squeezed here, and inner city schools are generally hit the hardest.

Yes, a graduate should be able to pass a test--but what test, compiled by what brother-in-law of a Republican politician who lives in a different time zone, and sprung on a student who may never have seen any of that company's products before?

I generally agree with the concept of statewide standardized tests, but I have serious doubts about the validity of current third-party tests. I can't speak to this particular test, though, as I've never seen it.

[kay1864]

5. What do you mean

"of course"? It's not self-evident. How does a standardized test "squeeze" public schools, and how does a standardized test "hit hard" the inner-city schools?

If by the above post you mean that the poor and minorities are getting substandard education, and thus don't do as well on standardized tests, well duh. That's exactly the sort of thing a standardized test will reveal.

In that case though, fix the schools--don't blame the test that shows how bad the schools are. And in the meantime, should we give a high school diploma to a student receiving a substandard education?

[Orsino]

6. NCLB is squeezing the public schools.

Unfunded mandates are a leading cause of poor, teach-to-the-test, overcrowded education.

Don't blame the schools or the tests. Blame the constant whittling away of the education budget--there is an obvious fix for most of what ails the schools.

If we want good education, we have to buy it--and we have to prevent the robber barons from sneaking in to steal it.

[kay1864]

8. Okay...

But my post was about the exit exam, not NCLB or unfunded mandates (which I agree are a problem).

My point is, in principle I don't see anything wrong with exit exams (NCLB or no NCLB). Many colleges and universities have them. Why should high schools be any different?

While I agree that NCLB and unfunded mandates may be squeezing the schools, an exit exam itself does not. The exit exam merely highlights the underperforming schools (or students).

And if you can't perform, then you don't deserve a high school diploma. Whether it's the school's fault, or NCLB's fault, or the lack of funding's fault, the bottom line is, the student has not learned enough to pass the exit exam. And therefore doesn't deserve the diploma. Otherwise he/she is rewarded for simply sitting in class--and not for learning the minimum math and English skills to graduate.

[Orsino]

9. I agree with all of that...

...except, perhaps, the loaded term "underperforming." I think it would be more accurate in many--or possibly most--cases to say "insufficiently funded to perform adequately."

I believe that most teachers and administrators are dancing about as fast as they can, but a good test is certainly a way to identify those who aren't doing the best they can. Whether or not this particular exit exam is a good measure of a student's performance, and whether the student got a chance to prepare for the material it covered, would be relevant questions.

[kay1864]

10. No, I'm sticking with "underperforming"

"underperforming" is the WHAT
"insufficiently funded" is the WHY

It's not a "loaded" term--on the contrary, it simply records whether or not the student passed the exit exam (note that in this case I'm referring to "underperforming on the exam", not underperforming in general).

So IF the student can't pass the exam (and as you point out, IF the exam is in fact a good one) he/she should not get a diploma. Whether they got a chance to prepare for it is irrelevant. At the time of the exam, either they're prepared or not. They pass it or they don't. If they don't, there are other options (tutoring, summer school, etc.).

If they are not prepared, then yes, the school (or the NCLB, or the funding, or whatever) gave the student a raw deal. But that's not relevant to whether or not you give them a diploma.

Or maybe the student simply isn't smart enough to grasp the material, and to graduate high school--irrespective of the teacher/school/funding.

Either way, same result. You don't pass the exam, you don't get a diploma.

[Orsino]

12. You said "underperforming" schools or students.

I say that "underperforming" almost certainly applies elsewhere. A loaded term like that is a what and a why. The result is the same for the student, as you say, but if you're looking to assign a why, we need a bigger picture.

[kay1864]

13. Actually I'm not looking to assign a why at all...

I'm only saying "don't pass exam" = "don't get diploma". "Whys" such as NCLB and unfunded mandates were introduced into this thread by you, not me. Not to mention "poor and minorities" (still waiting for an answer on that one, BTW).

Yes I did say "underperforming" schools or students. Those would be schools (or students) who don't do well on the exit exams. That's still a what, not a why (and therefore not loaded).

[Orsino]

16. "Underperforming" is very loaded.

"not meeting a standard" is a neutral way of putting it.

When the malice or incompetence may lie elsewhere, assigning it all to the school or student is unfair.

[kay1864]

17. Repeating it several times...

doesn't make it true.

And who's "assigning" anything to the school--or student? Certainly not me. The student either passes the exam, or not. The school as a whole either performs well on the exam, or not. No blame involved at all.

[Orsino]

18. My only objection was to the "underperforming" label...

...which the school or student may not have earned. It implies incompetence or laziness, though I understand that you meant only to denote a failure to meet an arbitrary standard.

If the school and the student were performing as best they could with limited resources--if--then "underperforming" is not a fair label.

If you don't see the same connotation in the word, then we're not going to agree on this point.

[kay1864]

19. "arbitrary" is a loaded term

What a fun game.

[Orsino]

20. All legislated standards are arbitrary, by definition. n/t

[kay1864]

23. Whose?

Once again, not self-evident.

arbitrary, adj.
1. based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something
2. existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will

Are there any state standards (e.g., exams) that you would accept? Or is any exam administered by the state automatically suspect in your eyes?

[Orsino]

26. Arbitrary =! unacceptable.

The standards of performance to which you alluded were decided by the legislature, which decided what was, in their view, acceptable. I have no trouble accepting that principle; it's necessary.

[kay1864]

28. Well if it's acceptable to you...

then you're sending a mixed message by using a derogatory phrase like "arbitrary standard", implying the standard is capricious. On the contrary, a well-designed exit exam is far from capricious.

And students who fail them don't deserve a diploma, irrespective of being poor or minorities. Also, the exam has the benefit of being independent of the pressure of social promotion.

[Orsino]

29. I don't know how capricious the standard might be...

...never having examined it, and not knowing who voted it in, or why.

The principle, though, is not just acceptable; it's vital.

[kay1864]

31. In that case you shouldn't use the word 'arbitrary'

cf definition in my post above

[Orsino]

35. I'm forced to agree...

...but for a different reason. "Individual" doesn't seem to apply here, as I was referring to standards legislated into existence (often, as we know, without regard to reason).

Would you agree that "discretionary" is a better term than "arbitrary"?

[kay1864]

21. Just to clarify...

A student who fails an exam is performing less well than the other students.
A school whose students fail an exam is performing less well than the other schools.
(as before, assuming the exam is well-designed)

Hence "underperforming".

[Orsino]

27. We're already agreed that a standard isn't being met. n/t

[Xithras]

45. I agree, but the test should stay.

I'm an employer, and generally speaking a HS diploma won't even get you through the door for an interview here. Why? Because it's meaningless. Schools pass practically everyone nowadays, so a diploma is no indicator of knowledge. There WAS a time in this country when having a diploma was assurance to MOST employers that you did possess a level of education sufficient for most jobs. When that assurance went away, many employers started wanting to see diplomas AND two year degrees or x years of experience. If we could return some value to the diploma, show employers that people possessing them DO speak the language and understand math and history sufficiently for most jobs, then many minorities will be better off. Getting a job will be easier if the diploma has some value.

The fact that schools aren't educating students well enough to pass that test is a different story altogether. I 100% agree that it's an issue that needs to be addressed and that unequal education in this state IS a problem. The solution isn't to get rid of the minimum requirements, however, it's to raise the standard of education to a level where the minimum requirements are no longer an issue.

[kay1864]

47. Well said Xithras!

[Squatch]

3. These seniors haven't learned a damned thing...

other than how to bitch and moan to your parents who will bring the full power of lawsuits to bear.

How about just *learning* the damned subjects, you freaking idiots?

[Nikia]

7. When I was in high school in Ohio

We had to pass the 9th grade profiency test to graduate from high school. There were some exceptions for students with disabilities. The test was suppose to cover material that one should learn by the time one enters high school. Students took it for the first time in 9th grade. If they failed, they had two chances per year to pass. There were four sections: writing, math, reading, and citizenship. You only had to retake the sections you failed if you failed. My class had a 50% passing rate for our freshman year, including myself. Everyone at my school eventually passed, but we had a few students who didn't pass a section until their senior year. There was special free math tutoring for those who failed the math section, the most common section failed at my school. At a nearby school, a student failed and couldn't graduate and people protested about that. I don't know about the California test, but there is no way that someone should be able to graduate if they couldn't pass that test that was at the middle school level.

[Susang]

11. Schools are no longer about learning

They are about test taking. If you don't do well at test-taking, you're fucked. Doesn't matter how well you've done all year on your daily studies. Sad.

[kay1864]

15. Well that's partially true...

In a sense, schools were always about test-taking. If you don't do well on tests (most courses anyway), you don't get good grades.

But I'm guessing you're talking about "teaching to the test", where there is an over-emphasis on the NCLB test, to the exclusion of regular subject matter? That much is lamentable.

[Susang]

32. That's exactly what I'm talking about

I have several friends who are teachers and they tell me that their classes have been essentially hijacked to make sure the student do well on the required standardized tests. They feel that all they're doing now is teaching rote memorization, so the children can regurgitate it later on the standardized tests required by the "no child left behind" act. There's no room for individuality or the childrens' individual skills. I find that incredibly sad and a waste.

[KamaAina]

14. This is especially onerous to students with disabilities

One who is Deaf was actually prepared to leave the state for his senior semester so he could graduate!

http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/departments/news/000712.html

Nick Mackey has the beginnings of a solid college application: He plays baseball at Galt High School, shows prize-winning pigs, is active in his church youth group and has excelled in computer courses — the field he hopes to work in someday.

But what the high school senior doesn't have is assurance he'll get a diploma in California, the state where he has received his education.

That's because Nick, who is deaf and struggles with written and spoken language, hasn't passed the English portion of the California High School Exit Exam....

So his parents have devised a plan: They will send him to another state for his last semester of high school.

Truth in advertising: call it "No Affluent, Able-Bodied Child Left Behind". :eyes:

[realisticphish]

30. that's moronic

"you can't graduate until you pass this proficiency test in sanskrit"

for deaf people, learning written english is EXTREMELY hard. Many adults never get farther than a 5th grade reading level. We don't realize how much we use hearing when learning to read

[philosophie_en_rose]

22. The test should be a tool; not a death sentence.

I know brilliant law students that can't do math without a calculator. I've read judicial opinions with atrocious grammar.

I graduated with a student with Down's syndrome. He graduated through his IEP. Should he not be able to walk with his class, because of one test?

This type of test is a damned cop out. Schools need to know how students are doing all along and then do the hard work of developing a program that addresses those students' needs. If the school is doing its job, it wouldn't pass kids that don't deserve it. It shouldn't take a test at the end of 12 years of education to tell a school that kid can't add.

The test is really shameful. Passing a test doesn't actually mean that a child learned anything. I test very well, and I know that performing for a test has very little to do with the best parts of education.

[Nikia]

40. When I graduated in Ohio, certain students were exempt

From portions or all of the proficiency test if they had certain disabilities.

[Ron Mexico]

24. A lot of these stories claim that the courses were passed

as if no tests were involved to obtain the course grade.

There are two possibilities:

1.) This is the truth. If that's the case, the fact that the course was passed is irrlevant to me. How, then, was the grade obtained? Homework assignments that are easy to plagarize? Or, worse still, other factors such as attendance or "life experience?"

2.) It isn't true that there were no tests. If so, I have even less sympathy. So a kid passes a series of tests with "load and dump" all-night cramming sessions and then gets shelled on the final, and I'm supposed to feel bad for a kid like that?

If the final exam is limited to things that were taught in the course and the kid can't pass it, then tough shit. I was a National Honor Society member with a four-year high school GPA of 3.92 and I work a series of fucking temp jobs. Kids today take such easy courses that I could have graduated their cirriculum at age 14 or younger, and they're whining about tests being too hard? Wait until these "I can't pass, it's not fair" types get out into the workforce and find out that their best career opportunities lie in the states with the highest minimum wage.

Every time the Repugs want to cut education, they point to stories like this and trot out their old "see, throwing money at the problem isn't working." Their motives are pure greed and indifference, but in one aspect they're right - as long as we make excuses for lousy students and keep lowering standards, no amount of money will fix the problem. Let's stop coddling underachievers and pass only those who deserve to pass. The courses these days are so easy that mostly everyone who is failing isn't trying.

Go ahead and flame away, but I really feel strongly about this. We're raising a generation of idiots, a lot of us will rely on them for Social Security, and I'm tired of hearing how rough their academic lives are in our shitty high schools. Those dolts that Leno interviews on "Jaywalking" are becoming the rule rather than the exception.

I went through a state exam and nobody living in anything more expensive than a cardboard box grew up poorer than me, so I don't want to hear about "illegal" tests and have no sympathy for Wasi at all. Sorry if this isn't the proper Democrat stance, but I never claimed to be the world's most faithful Democrat. Improving schools is my #1 hotbutton issue and this story absolutely infuriates me. I agree with Kay's comment entirely.

[philosophie_en_rose]

33. I was number one in my class & I still think the tests are ridiculous

Again, the tests measure very specific and usually irrelevant material. For instance, measuring whether someone can pick out a grammar issue is not the same as measuring writing skills.

The question is whether the tests measure what people actually know. I aced the PSATs, the SATs, and the LSATs. Although I did well on the tests, there is a difference between the skills needed for the tests and the skills that I used to succeed in both the classroom and the work place.

You sound really bitter about how "easy" things are. I'm not that old, so let me assure you that it is not "easy."

There are experts in education that analyze the effectiveness of tests. These are not necessarily the same people that are creating the tests.

[Ron Mexico]

34. Well, I graduated in

1981 in New York. That wasn't so long ago, and today's standards are an absolute joke. And yes, I am very bitter about standards being lowered so drastically.

I read your earlier post and agree that the testing system isn't perfect, but what would you suggest in its place? For all the complaining I've heard about standardized tests, I have yet to hear an alternative that strikes me as reasonable.

[Susang]

36. Wasn't so long ago? Are you kidding?

When did 25 years become "not so long ago"? That would receive a failing grade by todays standards, as you have obviously been out of school longer than it took you to graduate in the first place.

[Ron Mexico]

37. ???

Did the language or math properites change drastically in 25 years? What has changed over 25 years that makes academic mediocrity acceptable, and since when does my perspective being different from yours give me a "failing grade by today's standards?" Does this mean that anyone who doesn't see things exactly as you do also gets a "failing grade by today's standards?"

Do you have a suggestion as to what would be better than standardized tests, or did you drop by just go give me a "failing grade by today's standards?"

Sheesh.

[Mizmoon]

25. I think we try to force too many kids into college

and higher education is not for everyone. There was (at least at my school) little to offer kids who wanted to be carpenters, mechanics, etc. They were generally forced into the same requirements that college bound kids had to meet. That's silly because carpenters and plumbers and mechanics make a good living and they are not professions to be scorned.

In NY we have several grades of high school diplomas. The highest, Advanced Regents Diploma, is for college-bound kids. THe lowest, the General Diploma, is for non-college bound. Maybe they'd be better off leaving this exam as an optional for the Regents type kids. And before anyone talks about kids not knowing what they're going to do at that age - that's what community college is for - to get you on the college path if you weren't there in high school.

Short answer: It's not a good idea.

[gizmo1979]

38. I think you're on drugs.

Tests are not a good way of measuring capabilities.I can teach a monkey to pass a test.Where is the room for independent thought?So you can pass a test, that proves that you can memorize the text.But can you use the text in a variety of ways that are actually useful in a real world environment.A good example of this is our military,we look kind of ragged compared to other spit shined lockstep outfits.So why is ours better?Independent thought,if the leader goes down someone else can take their spot without missing a beat.If only the tests matter that is all you're going to learn.

[kay1864]

41. "memorize the text"?

Doesn't help with a math test, now does it?

[gizmo1979]

44. The test has limitations.

If the test is word problems that's what you learn.You will only learn what it takes to pass the test.You will not know how that math may help you whereever.

[kay1864]

46. Well yeah of course.

All tests have limitations. They're not limitless.

You (the student) don't NEED to know "how that math may help you". That's not the point. The point is, have you learned the math concepts. That's what the teacher / courses are to teach, and that's what the exam is to test your knowledge of.

"How the math may help you" is for you the student to apply. AFTER you've mastered the concepts.

"You will only learn what it takes to pass the test"? Yes indeed. If you've learned the math concepts, then the teacher / courses have done their job.

[MadHound]

39. It sounds like this is an LD student

Being LD doesn't mean that you're stupid, it means that you simply cannot learn, or prove that you're learning, in the normal way. One of the more common disorders is dyslexia, where a person's perception of the written word is skewed. It would be really, really tough for a dyslexic person to pass an English test without help. Similarly, there are people whose perception of numerals is skewed, and they also need help.

To not provide such help is to rig the test so that these students cannot pass, and therefore not graduate. I hope this student wins her lawsuit, not just for her sake, but for all of those who will be coming after her.

Again, just because you're LD doesn't mean that you are unintelligent. In fact it is quite common for exactly the opposite to be the case, these kids are quite brilliant. It is just that they're interactions with the educational world are problematic.

[kay1864]

42. Agree in part...

LD/dyslexic students do deserve help (tutoring, special classes, whatever).

But if you haven't learned the material, you don't deserve the diploma. Whatever the reason.

[MadHound]

43. True that, however

The article specifically states "Wasi, 17, is part of a program for students who need extra assistance in school. . ."

Sounds like an LD student to me. If she wasn't keeping up on her studies, I'm thinking that the words chosen would be "remedial program" or some such. My wife assists LD students at her college, and this just sounds like the same language that she uses.