2 Years of looking for solid employment

[YOY]

A solid education behind me and a couple of years of experience to boot and I still can't find squat.

I just recieved latest phone call from someone trying to recruit me for selling 100% Commission Life Insurance. I'm getting pissed off. I want a real job! Not some parasitic BS position selling fucking insurance!

In the past three months I've sent over 100 applications out and only gotten 1 real interview. What am I doing wrong? Is the ecnomy that bad? Am I completely useless? Where are the real jobs in this country?

Sorry folks, just need to vent...

[benburch]

1. I hear you.

Thats why I took the risk and decided to do White Rose for a living.

[neverevergivein]

2. What type of job are you looking for?

My friend just quit teaching to sell Insurance, and in year 1 made 6 figures. I understand if that's not what you want, but I wouldn't be so quick to demean selling.

What is your background?

[YOY]

8. International Development: Private and Public Sectors

I speak several languages to varying degrees and have more than 4 years of international experience in education, business, and volunteering.

I operate best in multicultural environments and request travel. When I stop moving around and traveling I get lazy. Most positions I have had in the Not-for-profit area of ID have been administrative/support and are basically secretarial positions that are meant for those who don't and won't travel but can provide support. I need a true hands-on job and not in the background. Most positions I find are looking for 5-10 years of experience. How one gets those 5-10 is beyond me.

Some of the catchwords would be (for all sectors): Cross cultural negotiations, USAID, International Branch Management, International Program Management, Contract negotiations, and International Project Management.

Yes, I have applied for government work. They aren't exactly speedy in getting back to you with a yea or nay. I've interviewed with US AID. I was dog sick at the time and did not make the cut. They would not let me reschedule.

I am not a salesman...straight and true...and I don't like the insurance industry at all.

[EstimatedProphet]

14. You might be better off in a different country in that field

This administration isn't exactly high on international development.

I do know what you mean. I have a doctorate, and there's really nothing out there for me. That's part of why I decided to become a writer. That, and frustration with the assholes I've had to work for.

[YOY]

17. EU is a big one with PHARE and the like but

the problem is that they give jobs to EU citizens ONLY! My wife is Bulgarian and we're hoping we might be able to get EU citizenship when her country is admitted.

[deadparrot]

19. If you've looked at government work...

I assume you've seen this site: http://www.usajobs.gov/

But I'm just throwing it out there. :hi:

[YOY]

21. Oh yeah...I know it well n/t

[JCMach1]

20. Get out of the U.S. - For example several important

NGO's are clustering now in the UAE.

[pitohui]

30. what's international development?

it is prob. a stupid question but it doesn't sound like you are seeking a job, it sounds like you expect to get paid to travel around, which ain't gonna happen or we'd all be doing it

[YOY]

34. It's not that fun babe

Yes! TRAVEL around to the scenic developing world! SEE the corruption! MARVEL at the poverty! LIVE on probelmatic global issues! EARN shitloads less than your asshole friends who've never left the midwest because they fear 'teraists'! BE AMAZED as the military comes by and FUCKS IT ALL UP SO YOU HAVE TO START FROM SQUARE 1 and gets called HEROES!

I know some people who have a vacation-like job (mostly assholes I may add) but most of us work on tough issues in the developing world handing everything from the sex trade to government corruption and transparency working.

Red Cross, US AID Contract work, UN work. It's a real vacation! :crazy:

[pitohui]

36. i still don't understand what you want to do

red cross, they are volunteers, the ones i know don't get paid

i think you need a mission statement or something and then you have to be real if a job really exists that pays money doing what you want to do

if other people are doing it for nothing as volunteers i think you will have to get a real job and look into internat'l volunteering during your sabbatical and gap years like everybody else?

hell, people are even PAYING to volunteer in some countries, such as costa rica

[YOY]

39. Not really

http://www.redcross.org/jobs/0,1115,0_316_,00.html The Red Cross can and does pay (although not much.)

My mission statement is fine! You just don't know the industry. Take a look at this job site! This is what I'm talking about.

http://www.developmentex.com/index.jsp

And as you can tell from my sig I've volunteered plenty (there's more than the PC). The volunteering is the ground level.

[pitohui]

41. yeah i get i don't know the industry

i think i just don't understand exactly what it is, is it like providing bank loans or something, well, don't go round and round trying to answer me, better i will read the links and i can figure it out from there

[LostinVA]

46. Go to the usajobs page -- you may find something

The FSA test is coming up -- but you may have missed the registration deadline.

[seemunkee]

3. Where are you? What skills

The company I work for is having a hard time finding Java developers and admin assistants. In suburban DC.
Is there a place on DU to post jobs?

[acmejack]

6. The Careers and Employment Group!

We have agroup for everything! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=362

[YOY]

11. Gotta be a doner

and I havn't the $ to spare....preggers wife and all every penny counts.

[matcom]

25. you are now

check out the forum ;)

[YOY]

26. You are FRICKING AWESOME!

May (Insert diety of your choice or lack there-of) bless you!!!

[matcom]

27. just a guy who just landed a new job...

trying to help out the same :hi:

[KatyaR]

51. Matcom, I swear, if I was anywhere near you,

I'd kiss you!!! :P

What a nice thing to do . . . .

:yourock:

[YOY]

9. Arlington actually

and I would take an Admin assitant position if it paid the right money and led to greater things.

I'll send you my resume...you might think me overeducated for the position, but my wife is pregnant and I need real money and not more of the same BS.

[meganmonkey]

4. It really is that bad

I wish you the best of luck. I wish I knew a solution. Mistermonkey has a job he wants to get out of, but there is nowhere else to go.

A good friend of mine - late 30's, educated, responsible, mature, very experienced in her field (including supervisory/managerial experience) keeps getting booted from one temp job after another (probably for being overqualified, even though she is happy to be making less than half of what she used to make).

I am so grateful for my job - even though I don't make much, it is a grassroots nonprofit, at least it is stable and positive. But we deal with hunger relief, and it is breaking my heart how many calls we are getting lately from people who have never had to ask for help in their life, wondering how they are going to feed their kids. :(

Again, the best of luck to you YOY.

[YOY]

13. Thanks I appreciate it!

Remember the Clinton years fondly.

[Earth_First]

5. I saw this coming several years back...

and decided that the only way to ensure a stable income for my family was to become self employed. The best answer that I can give you is to not beholden yourself to someone else to earn a living. It may seem harder than you may think, but in all reality, it's really not all that difficult. Someone like yourself with an education could go really far with self employment, check it out, try it out. It's the only way you'll know.

GOOD LUCK!

[YOY]

28. It's easy coming from a little experience, but having 3 or 4 years

and no capital to start off of is neigh impossible.

[catmother]

7. have you gone to a head hunter? that was the only way i ever

got a job.

as yes things are bad. so many jobs outsourced. of course, bushco says the economy is good and unemployment is down.:puke:

good luck to you.

[YOY]

15. They count shitty retail jobs as real employment

Despite the fact that the folks who work them earn damn near minimum wage.

[leftofthedial]

10. same here--2 and a half years of looking

20-year career dead in its tracks

I can't even get an interview.

I have a parallel career, but it doesn't reliably pay squat.

[YOY]

23. We're not alone

I've got about 3 other friends in the same boat of being under- or un-employed.

Some people think that when the baby boomers all reture (those that have good jobs at least) then things will really open up due to previous budget constraints. I'm skeptical of everything at this point.

Good luck to us all.

[pitohui]

31. yes but the boomers refuse to retire

they won't retire, they didn't save anything and w. the attack on pensions and social security they can't afford to retire

so it's a big roadblock and they are forever ahead of us on that road

plus retirement age was actually pushed older by reagan and now again by bush

it is most discouraging

no one ever gives up the good jobs until they are dragged away screaming on a gurney

[raccoon]

32. Some boomers can't afford to retire. Maybe they did save

something but then fell upon hard times, such as disabilities and/or years of underemployment. Or excessive medical debt.

And of course lots of them are underemployed, too.

"no one ever gives up the good jobs until they are dragged away screaming on a gurney"

That seems to be true.

[YOY]

35. and some of them are double dipping and making 6 figures

and laughing all the way to the fricking bank as their lifeblood slowly runs out on them.

I feel for those who are screwed by the system...but the fat white guy driving the SUV, working 30 hours a week, and earning a small fortune annually? Fuck 'im!

[pitohui]

38. well i can't really blame them

i guess my dad is one of them, almost 80, and he cherry picks the jobs going to australia, etc. wherever they want to pay one of his skills

so why would he retire, if he gets money to go here and there doing his thing?

that is the problem, the well-paid gigs or the gigs w. big perks, why give that up?

he has engineering skills tho, i hate to say it but while languages are nice, he seems to have found that there is always a translator and there is always a driver but there is not always an engineer in a given specialty

there are billions of people in the world and probably half of them have "people" skills so knowing a lot of languages is not always as helpful as we were told back in high school :-( you kind of need some specialized tech skill that hasn't been shared w. every engineering student in china

[YOY]

42. I can!

Who wants to work their whole lives? YEEECH! Relax and enjoy the fruits of your labors! Why give it up? Because you're not going to live forever!

My other skills include project management and believe it or not the languages are more usefull then what you are making them out to be.

[pitohui]

43. well that's just the way some people are

some people DO want to work their whole lives, i wouldn't, but he does, a lot of men are like that, esp. older men, their work IS their life really

what would he do if he wasn't working? relaxation is not relaxing for some people

unfortunately, as far as languages, the proof of the pudding is in the jobs pulled in by the language degrees and i've heard too many horror stories about that, and not just recently, but going back to the 80s, from people meeting at modern languages associations and just can't get a decent job or can't get tenure, as wonderful as it is to know a lot of languages if our culture doesn't respect and reward it, what can you do? you can't force anyone to give you a job

the person above suggesting you teach in south korea wasn't being mean, that is how a lot of people i've known have ended up, that or japan but japan is pretty expensive these days

[YOY]

49. Most of those jobs in Korea pay peanuts

I have $65,000 in student debt, I'm 31, and a have kid on the way. I haven't the time to play 'wanderlust' and I really am talking about a career path that does exist! There are even tangents that exist to it in the private sector (actual international business development)! I swear they do exist!

I keep telling you that languages supplement what I'm doing but are not the main basis of my profession (or any side profession they may lead to.) True they look good on paper, but alone they don't do squat. I'm not going to teach Russian at some school, although I teach ESL in my sparetime I really am not an Education or Academic person. I really find academica to be a boring land of ivory towers and "all talk no action". It works for some people, but not for me! Beleive it or not a good many of the positions I apply for require foreign language knowledge, but are meant for someone with 5 to 10 years of experience. I haven't a single language degree (OK I've a minor in one for undergraduate) and almost all of my learning experiences have been in the field. Those years of experience are what I need to get, but nobody seems to be offering anything on the private or public spheres.

Working until you croak seems like the an existance I'd rather not lead. I'm sure your father is happy, but I'm glad mine retired at 65. He spends his time caring for his grandkids and traveling the world with my mother on (what I consider silly) vacations. I've never seen him so happy. He never imagined a world outside of work and was thrilled to discover one.

[China_cat]

45. We can't afford to retire.

And yes, we DID save. That 2 years out of work ate it all up trying to keep the house and the car (little to no public transport here) and pay my medical.

I really resent being characterized as someone who 'won't' get out of the way for those coming up.

As for the good jobs...do you think you'd give up a living wage and health insurance? Please don't tell me you would because I know better. Dragged away on a gurney? No...close the company in order to bust the union and reopen later under new management with nothing but temp labor at minimum wage and no benefits.

[pitohui]

47. of course you're right

my feeble attempts at humor are quite feeble indeed at times

we're all in this mess of an economy together really and it's either laugh or cry

i don't know why anybody would ever give up a job these days if the job has medical benefits, sadly, the tricks you mention and more are used to chase people out of jobs

[China_cat]

55. Sorry I got testy

but even here on DU I hear some saying that pensions are some kind of giveaway and people shouldn't be expecting their employer to 'support' them in their old age. Without ever realizing that a pension isn't something that you are just -given-.

To start with, you had to work for a company for a specified number of years (usually 10) before you were 'vested'...eligible to draw anything. During that time money was taken out of your pay to help fund the plan. Money that you DIDN'T get back if you quit, were fired or otherwise ended your employment before the vestment period. And your employer didn't add matching funds until after you were vested.

Matching funds were rarely dollar for dollar. A ratio of 1 to 5 was the norm. More often the employer just added a lump sum to the pension fund. Yes, money coming out of their profits but much less than they'd pay out giving raises or hiring new people.

I've heard people ask why we didn't have a 401k. I don't know how it is now but 401k plans when they were introduced (and for a lot of years) were only available to people who weren't covered by a company pension plan. You couldn't get a 401k if you expected a pension. And by the time we were eligible for a 401k, it wouldn't have done us any good because my husband was already 50.

When the companies go under and take the pension plans with them, they aren't just taking back THEIR money. They are taking the money that their employees have paid in for years. It's the same as if they had it at home under the mattress and somebody came in and robbed them.

[phusion]

12. Would you like to teach?

If you have a BA at least, you could be teaching in South Korea tomorrow if you wanted...Making decent money with paid housing.

Just an idea since you said you enjoy travel.
http://www.eslcafe.com

[YOY]

16. I do teach as a second job

ESL is my other job. I actually teach Korean immigrants at a local technical school.

The wife being pregnant makes travel hard. The fact that she isn't an American citizen makes it really hard. I have given it a thought, but I really would like something more management based that I can make a real career out of.

[Up2Late]

18. I know the feeling, I lost my job about 2 1/2 years ago to the "Digital...

...Revolution." Actually it was the advance of the Digital Camera. Now, all the Photographic Laboratory skills that I learned and all the "cut and tape" manual film editing skills I learned 20 years ago in Photography/Film School are all obsolete.

But what the computers have taken away, they have also made it possible for me to re-train myself as a digital video editor. Unfortunately, much of my time is spent dealing with the problems and limits of my current system, but that might be worth something soon too.

Remember, the average person changes careers 3-4 times over their working life time, and they say that changing jobs about every 5 years is about the average these days.

I'm not sure if I'm one #3 or #1b.

Good luck :pals:

[anarch]

22. I'm thinking maybe things are just that bad...

My S.O. is going through the same thing. It's been about two years, I think, since she was laid off from the last job she had. She submits somewhere around 30-40 applications every week, and has had exactly two interviews in the last six months. And zero job offers.

I really don't know what we're going to do...all our savings are gone, our credit cards maxed out, bills piling up. I work, but we were basically only scraping by when we were a two-income household, and now....

I'm thinking of turning to a life of crime.

[YOY]

24. You and me both...

It has crossed my mind...particulary if those I would be trying to rip off were rich white republican fuck bags so that I could live with myself (and donate half of it to the UNCF just to spite them!) :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

Daydreaming always makes things look a little rosier!

[pitohui]

29. do you have a license to sell insurance?

where i live you have to be licensed to sell insurance, stocks, even real estate!

the real jobs in this economy are in construction, bad weather knocks things down, they got to be built back up, can't really outsource it

but a good salesman who is knowledgeable abt insurance products can certainly make decent $$$

stock sales is dead, the internet killed it, but insurance can still be sold because a lot of people need help finding coverage they can afford

but if a co. is trying to recruit someone who is not licensed to sell insurance, from where i'm sitting, that smells like a scam and i don't blame you for being suspicious

you can get training to sell cars w.out a license but it's a tough way to make $$$ unless you have a good personality for sales

[YOY]

37. They give you the training and provide you with the license

You may have to pay for it out of your own pocket. These positions are jokes...and they constantly call me assuming that this is what I want to do with my life. Actually, they call alot of people regardless of education level and ask them to give it a go. If they fail (and most do) the company has lost NOTHING! The poor jerk who fails at 100% commission insurance is in it even worse then when he/she started.

Insurance companies are the parasites of capitalism. They produce nothing worthwile and fight to keep every penny they scam. Granted Auto insurance is a great thing to have as is disaster insurance for homeowners, but most of the other shit is just that: shit made to make them (and cooperating industries) rich and you poor. ESPECIALLY MEDICAL!

I didn't go to school 6 years (graduate included) to do the job that the High School jock gets stuck with in his home town.

[pitohui]

40. ah so it's rather like real estate

i knew a few real estate agents, they are provided the office and the telephone and the help studying for the exam, but the agent has to pay for and pass the exam herself

most don't make any money but one of my relatives had a great sales personality and did quite well, often earning in the six figures some years

it's self-employment tho, you have to provide your own health insurance, which is well nigh impossible these days for women over 40, so it's a young person's game nowadays

if you're middle-aged you just have to forget abt all that and get a job

if you're younger it might be worth the risk because if you do have a gift for sales there is no limit on your earnings

[cassandra uprising]

33. I am currently hunting

ss well as several members of my family. Hang in their. Unfortunately you're not alone. :hug:

[China_cat]

44. You aren't doing anything wrong

My husband was out of work for 2 years with a lot more experience in his field (transportation) He finally ended up having to take a job that is now paying half of what he was making.

Yes, the economy IS that bad. There are no real jobs left.

[bif]

48. I've been looking for 9 months

Hanbg in there. Something will turn up. Ya just can't give up. I send batches of resumes outt almost every week and now I'm running out of places to send to. I'm thinking of going to culinary arts school and learning to be a chef.

[jobycom]

50. You're applying over your qualification level

Or at least what you can show as your qualification level. Depending on your city, people get hundreds of applications a week, and have to hire one person. They will either hire someone with the exact credentials they need (and there will be a dozen or more to choose from no matter how obscure the job) or they will hire someone they can train up. The latter is more rare, especially for a larger company, since there are so many people already in their system to choose from.

A couple of suggestions--you may already be trying these. First, hire someone to write your resume if you haven't already. It's hard to keep frustration from appearing in your letter or resume. You second guess yourself, your resume, all of that, to the point of sounding desperate or bitter, and the employer will just shuffle you onto the larger stack and pull out someone else.

Second, consider starting out lower if you want a job at a larger company. Once in the door, they can see your brilliance, and you can move up.

Third, widen your scope. Apply for jobs you can do instead of the ones you want to do, but make sure there is a connection to what you want to do. You'll build a stronger resume to better catch an employer's eye.

Fourth, try to apply in person. Your resume is not catching anyone's attention, so try to bypass that.

Fifth, try interviewing for unadvertised jobs. Find companies you'd like to work for, and ask for meetings with managers doing what you'd like to do. Ask them how they got their jobs, how you can impress someone to give you a chance, etc. You might catch someone's attention that way, and they might hire you or give you a recommendation of someone who might. They might offer you a lesser job to start with, but keep you in mind when the next job in your specialty comes open.

Just some ideas. You've probably heard all of this before, it's straight out of job search guidebooks. But your problem right now is that your resume isn't catching people's attention, so you aren't getting any nibbles.

And yes, the job market right now is tight in a lot of places, which makes it harder, but there are still jobs out there. You have to find some way to impress someone to give you one, keeping in mind they are hiring people to fill the employer's needs, not the employee's.

A good career book is "Monster Careers" from the people who do Monster.com. It's a different approach to job hunting, with a focus on how to build a career, and how today's job market is so different than just five to ten years ago. It's a good book.

And no, I'm not any good at following any of this advice. :-)

[YOY]

52. alot of good advice there!

I have to tell you that I apply to all levels of work: some over some under and some seemingly appropriate to my level. I'm 31 and I've done entry-level for 4 years (two seperate industries) and have 2 1/2 more years volunteering with that. I really think I've taken my lumps by now and do not want to work another fricking internship/starter job. There really is not an overabundance of entry-level positions available anyways.

Much of your other advice is great.

[BluePatriot]

53. Try freight forwarding.

Have you tried looking at jobs in Freight Forwarding or Transportation Logistics? (Freight Forwarding = travel agent for cargo) Those folks really value international business skills. It may not seem like the best pay but it's great if you like to do business with other countries and travel. Plus, I love the air/sea cargo industry parties with booze, freebies, and ticket raffles...and I have 100 percent company paid insurance :)

Good luck on your search!

[YOY]

54. You know, I have looked there. I cannot seem to find a position for

someone on my level. Any ideas where I could start off of? I am definitely attracted to the idea!

[China_cat]

56. My husband works with a lot of freight forwarders.

The pay is lousy. Less than he earns as a night dispatcher. Even for the international.

When he first went back to work it was in that capacity and he was earning top salary because of his experience and languages. It came out to about $9/hr.

[DS1]

57. Eh. I've been without a decent, paying-above-retail-standards job

for the last 5 years.

Thank God for the GI Bill, is what I say. Now I've got a single degree, but instead of being completely ignored I'm lining up interviews left and right.

Good luck!

[StellaBlue]

58. same boat here

I am 26, have a masters degree from a reputable English university, four years' work experience, two of it as a lower-management-level administrator, AND I can actually write a letter in proper English (IMHO, a truly endangered ability) - I am working as a bank teller in my hometown in East Texas, which I left when I was 17.

I've sent out about 100 applications in the last six months, and had one interview.

I have a few 'contacts', who feed me job vacancies that I might not otherwise notice, as well as supposedly put in a good word for me, etc. - but, still - nada.

Meanwhile, my peers, who married right out of high school, are now working with me in the service industry, and able to have two or three kids and own their own home. I wonder where I went wrong.

Higher education (unless you're becoming a lawyer or something like that) is a racket. We were lied to. A degree no longer means you'll be able to get a 'real' job. And the resultant debt means we start off four years behind in work experience terms, with thousands of dollars of debt. This is especially bad if you have parents who cannot or will not help you out while you try to get on your feet. A lot of people DON'T have parents who can get them jobs through friends, or who buy them cars, or who help them out with the rent for a few years.

Boy, am I PISSED!

I could write more, but I have to go to my job as a bank teller and be, largely, bored out of my mind all day.