So, did I overreact?

[Redstone]

One of Mrs R's bookkeeping customers got roaring drunk last night and called her on the phone, spouting a bunch of abusive crap to her to the point that she was actually cryng.

When he called here today (I suppose to apologize like drunks always do, trying to make excuses and weasel out of responsibility for their actions), I informed him that the next time he called my wife, I'd come up to his house and put him in a wheelchair, and he'd not even be able to remember how he got there. And if he didn't believe me, he was welcome to try it just one time.

Mrs R says I shouldn't have answered the phone. My contention is that nobody is allowed to be abusive toward my wife (or me, or my kids). Period.

So, did I overreact, you think? Should you let anyone reduce your spouse to tears twice (because drunks always follow a pattern), or should you take it upon yourself to make sure it doesn't happen again after the first time?

Redstone

[leftofthedial]

1. you da man

:thumbsup:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. You did the right thing, Redstone.

Don't fault yourself for anything.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

3. Caller ID?

Might be a better proactive approach.:shrug:

[Redstone]

9. No. My position is that people need to understand that their actions

have consequences.

His consequences are:

1) He's lost a helluva bookkeeper, because she won't work for him anymore, and

2) Be real fucking careful who you call and get shitty with just because you're drunk and feeling sorry for your worthless self.

Redstone

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

11. Would hate to see you get into trouble over some drunk a-hole...

Be careful, ok.:pals:

[Redstone]

26. Not to worry. I'd make him swing at me first.

And being a drunk, he'd miss. And it's self-defense from then on.

Redstone

[lastliberalintexas]

37. Except that you just admitted as much on an Internet message board

It isn't always self defense if you are actually the provocateur, and it's better if you don't even have to worry about criminal defense issues anyway. Tell the guy he should never try to contact your family again and that he'll need to find a new bookkeeper. But don't ever threaten violence, since that is enough for him to at least file a report with your local police department in most areas.

[Redstone]

40. Not a problem, since he's already on probation for threatening

a police officer. I doubt they'd listen to him.

Redstone

[bigwillq]

4. You didn't overreact at all.

You did the right thing.

He needs to be a man and take resoponsibility for his actions.

:hi:

[Strong Atheist]

5. Sounds good. nt.

[eyesroll]

6. Do you work for or with your wife?

If not, you overstepped. (The instinct is understandable, though -- I get very protective of my SO when he has to deal with crap like that.)

I'd be embarassed as hell if my SO told off a rude customer of mine -- even if said rude customer reduced me to tears. It's my battle, and I'd see his intervening as undermining my professionalism.

[bigwillq]

8. But that's his wife

he has every right to step in at any time he thinks his wife is being mistreated.

[eyesroll]

12. That's an awfully paternalistic attitude.

Look, like I said -- I understand the instinct. But this smacks of: "Wife can't take care of herself, so Big Strong Man needs to step in."

Should his wife call his boss next time he gets a bad review?

[bigwillq]

19. If someone threatens your husband, wife, SO

whatever...I feel you have the right to get involved no matter what the circumstance is. That's just me.

[Redstone]

21. Oh, she would. She's a tiger. But not for herself, because of having been

abused as a child.

Besides, I don't get "bad reviews" because I own the company. And yes, I have fired customers who raise their voice to me. More than once.

Redstone

[Susang]

57. You've fired employees who've raised their voices to you?

Hmmm.....I've raised my voice on several occasions to various different bosses of mine and they all deserved it. Never got fired either. Looks like I wouldn't have lasted too long in your company .

I'm curious, do you bother to take into consideration whether the employee is right in what they're saying to you or do you just can 'em if they reach a certain decibel level?

[sarge43]

63. Well, first

there is a considerable difference between a smack down review, especially one that may be deserved, and drunken undeserved abuse.

Second, gender has nothing to do with it. If someone hurt my husband for no good reason, I'd be on them like ugly on an ape.

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. I like your logic, and I agree with your point -

people should be allowed to fight their own battles without someone "rescuing" them. Especially work-related stuff.

BUT - on the other hand - the asshole called the redstones at their home, at which point it becomes a home invasion.

UNLESS - they have a separate business phone line, and the asshole called on that line and Redstone saw it on caller ID and then answered, in which case it become interference again; since his wife wasn't happy with him answering the phone, I'm thinking this is the case, but we need to wait to hear from Redstone.

We need more details, methinks!

[eyesroll]

17. OK, I'll concede the point IF Mrs. R doesn't usually do business from the

home phone...(i.e. he looked them up or took advantage of a personal "hey, call me anytime" trust) -- then it probably did cross from business to personal.

I'm still not big on people fighting my battles on my behalf, though -- but maybe that's just me. I can't comment on the nature of the Redstones' relationship.

[Redstone]

22. He did call her at home in the evening, as you surmised.

That makes it personal.

And drunken diatribes at 10:00 PM do not fit into the category of business, no matter the phone line used to deliver them.

Redstone

[Redstone]

15. I don't agree. HE made it personal. Mrs R was abused as a child, and

I will not let it happen to her as an adult.

(I was, too. And nobody so much as raises their voice to me twice, now that I'm old enough and big enough to make sure they don't.)

Redstone

[Susang]

58. I'm assuming she's not a child any longer?

I'm sorry, but I agree with eyesroll. I'd be furious if my husband did that, especially if I had asked him not to pick up the phone. I disagree with what you did.

Hey, you did ask for our opinions! ;-)

[pitohui]

39. as a self-employed have to vote w. eyesroll

if my husband tried to yell at any customer of mine, no matter how shitty the attitude of said customer, i would be extremely extremely upset

i do not yell at my husband's shitty customers even tho at times i've overheard some exchanges that got me extremely tense and distressed and at times i've even heard of stuff that have me wishing for the attorney to sue for libel because of the way shit was talked abt him

BUT

i have to trust him that he knows how to handle his customers and in his industry apparently the good ol boys handle ea. other by yelling and screaming and spreading lies behind each other's backs and then it's all forgotten over a beer, if i tried to step in, i would be perceived as over-reacting to shit that sounded all loud and noisy but simply wasn't meant seriously

it ain't that way in my industry, if a customer drunk dials then it is just something that did not happen, it did NOT happen, and if i cried, guess what i didn't cry, it did NOT happen, now if the customer is too problematic then she is going to find i won't do any work for her any more, but there will be no screaming or male posturing, that isn't how it's done

you gotta trust yr wife that she can handle her customers and her business

she trusts you to handle your customers and your business

now if it was a life-threatening situation or a stalker situation, all bets are off, but otherwise yeah making it look like wifey sicced her hubby on her bad mean customer makes her look terribly unprofessional and is not the kind of story she needs to have getting around

i'm too cheap to have a separate line for business, but i deal w. the matter of customers calling at odd hours by, i'm afraid, screening my calls so anyone who drunk dials at a weird hour is just going to get the answering machine anyway

[regnaD kciN]

61. Agreed...

She's a businesswoman. It's her business. And she alone has the right to decide how to deal with her customers.

If some business-owner needs a spouse to step in and threaten violence in order to "defend" them, they're not much of a business-owner, if you ask me.

But we know that isn't the case here, because the poster's wife is of the opinion that what he did was wrong. And, therefore, it was. It was interfering in her business without her permission.

And no amount of macho "me defend my woman!" crap can justify it.

[Wapsie B]

7. Redstone..........

:yourock:

The guy needs a little blunt force trauma. Nobody messes with a lady.

[Blue-Jay]

10. Do you do contract work?

I have a neighbor that I don't particularly like, and I suspect that he stole my trash bin (costing me, like, 40 bucks for a new one!). I'd like to threaten his life, but I don't come off as being very "tough". do you think that you could come over here and give him "the business"? I'll pay.




In other words, yes, you overreacted. I think that you could have probably handled it differently (and just as effectively, mind you) without threatening to put some dumb schlep in the hospital.

[LeftyMom]

13. You have the right and the obligation to protect your family from harm

You did the right thing.

[northamericancitizen]

16. Yes you did overreact.

Nobody should be allowed to be abusive. Your response was.

I often did the same thing. Now I try to calm down first so I can find an effective way of letting the abuser know that he will never have that power again. This done without losing my self respect.

I hope these words don't sound judgmental cause they are not.

peace

lise

[jpgray]

18. I have no idea

It all depends on what was said, what your wife wanted to do about it, etc. I don't know enough to pass judgment on you.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Wow. So Capra-esque

"It's a Wonderful Life"
George Bailey went off on his daughter's teacher for sending Zuzu home with her coat unbuttoned later in the movie when he's in the dumps and drinking with Clarence, the teacher's husband nails him one for making the teacher cry.

Redstone, too often people take crap like that without standing up. I hope Mrs. R. understands why you felt it was important to use that big Yankee spine of yours on this guy. I would have done something similar.

[Redstone]

25. Amazingly enough, I've never seen that movie. Am I the only one?

People who have been abused as children tend to develop a habit of making excuses for their tormentor's abusive behavior.

I don't.

A well-thought-out reply, GC.

Redstone

[Gormy Cuss]

33. We're both Northern New Englanders.

I think it's a character trait. My 4'10" 90 lbs soaking wet grandmother used to stand up to men twice her size.

You should see "It's a Wonderful Life" some time. It's corny as all get out but the message is solid.

[Richard Steele]

34. I thought I was the only one!

I've never seen that film either!

As far as your situation, I think you could have done
without the specified threats of physical violence.
But that is a 'judgement call' that only you could make;
I don't know this guy so I won't second-guess you.

But the basic idea of reading this jerk the riot act,
making him understand that he crossed a line,
and there are consequences...sounds perfectly reasonable.

[pitohui]

41. no i've never seen it either

if everyone else has seen it why do we have to?

[jpgray]

27. So you're saying this second act will end with attemped suicide?

:D

[Gormy Cuss]

30. ...

:rofl:

[GalleryGod]

23. We'll drop by.....

[x-g.o.p.er]

24. Well done...

Instead of telling him what you would do next time, I would have done it this time, ensuring there would be no next time.

[Redstone]

28. I wanted to, but thought it best to settle it as peacefully as possible,

while making it clear that it would not happen again.

Redstone

[x-g.o.p.er]

31. You have far more restraint than I...

and well done to you.

I still would have kicked that dude's ass, though. Verbally abuse me, fine. Do it to my wife or kids, and then there is an uber-problem, but it's not lasting long and it's not happening again.

[sendero]

29. I think you did..

... but not every indiscretion is inexcusable. :)

[arwalden]

32. So You'd ACTUALLY Cause Bodily Harm To Someone...

... that would result in their becoming a quadriplegic... just because they made your wife cry?

Wow. That's way harsh, big man.

[Redstone]

35. There's no excuse for abuse.

Redstone

[arwalden]

45. Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right, Big Fella...

I suppose it's very easy to make threats--from behind the safety of your telephone--trying to convince the other guy that your dick was bigger than his--trying to impress and comfort your wife.

But when someone actually tries to justify causing severe physical bodily harm to someone, literally putting them in a wheelchair, (for simply making a loved one cry) then that suggests to me an inability to control anger, and an inability to to be rational, or to give a measured response.

Hell... why not just kill the son of a bitch and get it over with? Oh the irony.

It's all very tribal and territorial... it just gets me all goose-pimply all over. You big man. You have-um big dick! Drink-um firewater.

[khashka]

55. I think you might be missing the point

I really doubt Redstone would follow through on any of those threats. He's a very decent caring man and has proven it repeatedly here. But sometimes the only way you can reach certain people is through outrageous threats - never follow through with it but it's all they understand.

And he was trying to protect a woman he loves...

By the way, the "big dick" thang was just ugly and beneath you.


Khash.

[arwalden]

59. Hmmm. --- Sorry, What Point Was I Missing?

I'm not exactly sure what point you think he was trying to make. From my perspective, the only point appeared to be that two wrongs make a right.

It didn't take much to figure out that someone was advocating that excessive and unrestrained anger and violence was the proper response to verbal abuse.

Outrageous threats? Indeed. But when pressed on the point of whether he was truly serious, whether this was his sincere belief and intention, or whether or not he would follow through, I read no denials or clarifications. Sometimes it's not what we say that reveals the most, but what we DON'T say that can be equally revealing... and disturbing.

<< By the way, the "big dick" thang was just ugly and beneath you. >>

LOL! Too funny! I guess you just don't know me very well yet. :) If you did, you'd know that there aren't many crude remarks that are "beneath me".

Still... I'm puzzled how it is that you can fault and scold me for using crude language... but when it comes to an excessively violent act that would put someone in a wheelchair--all in the name of "protecting" someone honor--that's something you defend?

Go figure. My ridiculing someone's idea of manly-man masculine behavior is considered to be "ugly"... but nary a word in opposition to the over-the-top threats of violence.

Oh well. :hi:




edit: typo, clarity

[Blue-Jay]

36. What would happen if you threatened someone and they beat your ass?

Would you come back with a baseball bat? A bike chain? A knife? A gun?

When is violence OK with you?

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised by all the "rah rah" responses posted on this thread.

[Redstone]

38. I'd deserve it, if I got drunk and abusive.

Violence is OK when it stops abusive behavior. Hope that answers your question. There are indeed some moral absolutes, in my opinion.

Redstone

[Blue-Jay]

44. Well, there is where you & I differ.

Could you have handled the situation without throwing out a "big man" threat of permanent disability? I say yes.

And no, you did NOT answer my question. What if he'd have kicked your ass sideways? Would you have come back with a weapon to satisfy your warped sense of chivalry and justice?

Just because you think you're a tough guy doesn't mean that it's OK to threaten someone. Sure, the guy was being an asshole, and I'm sorry that your wife bore the brunt of his shameful behavior. That does NOT give you the moral authority to threaten someone's life, m'man. You were right to be outraged by the situation (nobody would fault you for those feelings), but responding by invoking a dick-waving contest is probably not the right answer.

[pitohui]

42. me too

1) it shows that most men are in denial abt what women really put up w. at work, every woman who works or has a business has had to deal w. jerks out to make you cry at some point, you can't put all the jerks of the world in wheelchairs, come on, but it does justify why so many of us women are protective of our men and just don't tell them what reality is because they don't need to go to prison in a quixotic effort to rid the world of jerks

2) it is a reality of business that some customers are verbally abusive, there is a certain class of people who think if they are paying $$$ they can talk shit to you, it is not a man/woman thing, my husband gets it too and way more i mean WAY MORE, in the chicken industry for example i'm not going to name any companies but the way some of them scream and yell and throw temper tantrums over nothing they would put fear into the heart of the bloods and the crips and probably give lessons in mean to the sopranos too, if you want their business, you gotta let it roll off, if you don't want their business, it's sufficient to say, i will no longer do business with you and walk off, or get yr attorney to say it if you have a contract

having the spouse get in there and express attitude is unprofessional in the extreme

and having the spouse issue threats of grievous bodily harm is stupid frankly and could come back to haunt you if something ever does happen to the shithead

[REP]

43. Yes

You threatened to cripple a man because your wife didn't have the sense to hang up on him. That's over-reacting. Oh, and I'm a disabled woman who fights my own battles, thankyouverymuch (last man who fucked with me ended up with a broken arm and shattered cheekbone, so I'm far more than talk, too).

[BlueIris]

46. Please be careful, Redstone. I don't know if you overreacted,

but alcoholics of the abusive variety who haven't found their way into any form of recovery can be very dangerous.

[Cats Against Frist]

47. Oh...

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

If it were me, I would have ripped him a new asshole, myself -- but it's nice of you to have cared enough to be concerned and step in. Sometimes people just "get to us," in weird ways, and it takes a friend (or spouse) to really give them the "what for."

[Magrittes Pipe]

48. Yes, but....

I can't honestly say I wouldn't have done the same thing.

Of course I'm protective of my wife as well. That said, she's a big girl, and can fight her own battles -- especially when it comes to professional matters. But yes, it does tap into something more primal when you see someone you love get mistreated.

Again, I agree with Mrs. R. that you crossed the line. But if my wife were attacked, I could easily cross the same line myself. I'd probably be wrong to do it; but I love her and would be certainly moved to rage by such a situation.

[4morewars]

49. One should ALWAYS maintain one's dignity !

I received this advice some years ago and it has served me well.

Picture this if you will , my dear redstone:

You with snot and blood all over your bruised face, hair dishveled, torn clothes, gasping for breath, handcuffed behind the back. Pushed and shoved from the holding pen, thrust into the courtroom, felonius charges read aloud for the public record. The judge looks at you with disgust and contempt, as he sets a high bail (they are afraid of violence) You get shuffled back into the system with the other scumbags (that's how YOU will be viewed) maybe be a guest of the county for a week or two until you can get the bail reduced. Thousands of dollars (tens of thousands ?) and a year or two later YOU are a convicted felon ! Maybe get a year or five upstate, more money lost in fines, fees, restitution, pay the drunken assholes medical bills, court costs, anger management classes (that you pay for !) etc and so on; it never ends , they own you now.

Oh and don't forget the civil suit that the asshole filed ! I will cost you more money to defend yourself. It will take years of frustrating and mind numbingly boring court appearances, depsoitions etc. And you will probably lose.

Not very dignified.

So, that is what keeps ME from kicking the living shit out of the imbeciles that I seem to be surrounded by more and more everyday.
I hope it works for you too, peace my friend, peace.

[yvr girl]

50. It's your wife's opinion that matters.

I think it's admirable that you defended your wife but whether or not you were out of bounds is her call.

[Misunderestimator]

53. Good answer.

[yvr girl]

54. I try

It's only an issue if she has a problem with it. I feel pretty confident that the Redstones will have no trouble working it out.

[_testify_]

51. Well, I would have done it differently.

I would have told him if he called again I'd burn his house down with him in it.

But that's just splitting hairs. Good job!

[khashka]

52. Ya did right, dude.

It's called love - the need to protect and care for someone else. Your wife doesn't deserve to be treated like that - but it's so easy, especially when it involves work , to get trapped in a situation like that and not be able to get out of it. But she has you :)

You did not overreact. I know this script, I know how it ends. Not nicely. Good for you for sticking up for her.

Khash.

[cassandra uprising]

56. My older sister used to say,

"Do you want me to make him disappear."

With that look. That look that I could tell that the ____ I knew wasn't there anymore, that someone else had taken over and was ready to make a calculated retaliation in my defense. And it would always make me very sad that she would go there. Even though her sentiment was the noblest, I knew in my heart that she was trying to make good on old hurts; of all the times that she couldn't protect me and herself from violence.

Now, some ten years later she says,

"Remind me again how bad I would look in an orange jumpsuit."

I agree with yvrgirl. Whether or not you over stepped is between you and your lovely wife. That being said, I think you too would look horrible in an orange jumpsuit.

:hug:

edit: I guess I haven't had enough coffee yet, darn typos

[Kid OfThe Black Hole]

60. I think your history may be coloring your reaction a little bit

but that said I may have kicked this guys ass just for calling back. We would be crystal clear the next time I hear from you...doesn't matter, there won't be a fucking next time

[imperialismispasse]

62. Not as far as I'm concerned no you didn't

If someone threatened my girlfriend to the point where she was crying then that person would have some harm coming to them. I see above that a lot of women on this thread are trying to make this about sexism and I guess in a small way it is. I think it is natural for our sex-that is bigger and stronger physically-to want to protect our female mates. I think it is a biological norm that we could fight against for the sake of PC I guess but I know I'm not going to and I don't think you should either.

[LeftyMom]

64. I don't think it's a sexist thing

anybody who upset somebody I love that much would get much the same treatment from me. The only difference would be that because of my gender and size I'd be much more likely to have to back up my threat to be taken seriously.

[imperialismispasse]

68. Yeah that's right

It is not limited to men protecting women, I know my girlfriend would want to protect me in the same way if someone hurt me but as you said because of her size she may not be able to in the way I can protect her. She's got a vicious tongue though and she knows how to use it. :) I do like that she's feisty, sounds like you are the same way. :D

[amitten]

65. Good for you. If I ever marry, I'd hope my husband would do the

same. And I wouldn't stand by and watch someone push around someone I love, either.

[Skittles]

66. I can see both positions

but I am leaning towards yours - that guy needed an ass-kicking

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. I would tend to react in the manner that you did Redstone. I am of

the type who constantly "get into" it in the checkout line, defending cashiers from rude customers. I can see the point of those who think you may have overstepped, but I don't blame you.

[Sugar Smack]

69. See? I KNEW we had some other things in common.

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

70. Sugar Smack...I was just now thinking about you..

:loveya: Seriously...and *poof* there you are! It's good to see you!

[Sugar Smack]

71. It's so good to see you too, gf!

:pals: :loveya:

[cynatnite]

72. I hope the jerk was apologetic as hell...

Sounds like you handled it just about right. My hubby would have done the same exact thing.