Dad sues to prevent son's circumcision

[barb162]

Dad sues to prevent son's circumcision
Judge's order temporarily blocks procedure

By Judy Peres
Tribune staff reporter
Published February 18, 2006


A Cook County judge Friday ordered a mother not to circumcise her 8-year-old son until the court can hear arguments from the child's father, who opposes the operation, and decide whether it is in the boy's best interests.

The mother, a 31-year-old homemaker from Northbrook, says two doctors have recommended the procedure to prevent recurrent infections. Her ex-husband, a 49-year-old building manager who lives in Arlington Heights, calls the operation an "unnecessary amputation" that could cause his son physical and emotional harm.

The Tribune is not naming the parents to protect the child's privacy.

Circumcision, in which the foreskin of the penis is surgically removed, usually before a newborn leaves the hospital, was extremely common in the U.S. during the last century. But the percentage of U.S. babies being circumcised has gone down from an estimated 90 percent in 1970 to some 60 percent today.
snip

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/health/chi-0602180166feb18,1,5287597.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[aquart]

1. 8 years old???? Ouch!

Now what kind of recurrent infections is this boychild getting on his dick?

[barb162]

2. that caught my eye too

[br7598]

3. What a load of crap

Thats such crap. Infections, give me a break. You get reoccuring infections on your face (acne) but they don't cut your skin off there. Not to mention the fact that a womans vagina is far far far more infection prone that any penis, circumsized ot uncircumsized. But somehow, women have found a way to continue on without sewing themselves shut (its called soap and water, have the kid try it some time). This is nothing but good old fashioned traditional thinking. By the mom and the docs.

Nobody should mutilate their boy for any reason. God and/or evolution put it there for a reason. Leave it alone.

[aquart]

4. You do that.

My people won't. We'll see later how that works.

[sakabatou]

23. 8 years? It's usually done 8 days after birth...

Owie.

[midnight]

5. Medically,and politically we have to sift through so much information.

I do not have a son,but if I did I told my O.B. that he would not be circumcised. However, my sister's son was circumcised several years after his birth for the same opinion as mother here is being told. I wish this religious ceremony would come to an end period.

[B Calm]

6. I was circumcised in 1951.. Parents didn't give me a choice.

I think it's a bullshit procedure!

[Nothing Without Hope]

7. I'm glad the father is stepping forward in this. I hope he wins the case.

[UncleSepp]

26. Seems like the father should have a bit more consideration

He has a better native understanding than the mother can have. It seems like his voice ought to carry more weight.

[Nothing Without Hope]

8. The whole circumcision issue is so fraught. Here's a thread from last

year that started with a newly reported scientific study and went from there - almost 400 replies.

My husband and I were saved from all-out war on this topic when our child turned out to be a daughter. No way I would have allowed it, but he thought it was a good idea.

[fasttense]

9. Now that medical care staff can pick and choose what medical

procedures they will support based upon their religious preference I guess more and more boys will not be having this procedure. I mean if pharmacist can decide not to give out birth control and Nurse and hospitals can refuse to do abortions then circumcisions will soon be refused.

[mandyky]

10. At least the 8 year old will get anesthesia

infants circumcised get nothing and they scream.

I had my eldest son done because the doctor's gave me the infections routine. I could hear him screaming down the hall. I have had 2 other sons and I make it understood well before labor starts that there will be none of that, if the baby is a boy. (I have 5 kids 3 boy, 2 girls)

[barb162]

13. May I ask how much they charge for that?

Is it covered by insurance. It seems like it shouldn't be covered as it is elective

[mandyky]

43. Not sure, none of my boys have done it yet

I think they would use a local anesthetic like novacaine or lidacaine. I would also assume it is something that could be done in the doctor's office as opposed to an operating room.

I am not sure what they charge these days for circumsion at birth. My eldest son is 23.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. King David bought his wife with 200 Philistine foreskins.

"..and David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full number to the king, that he might be the king's son-in-law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife." 1 SAM 18:27

I don't have a dog, or a foreskin, in this fight and don't really give a rip, but it is amusing that people are still squabbling over foreskins 3000 years later.

[barb162]

14. ewww, that gave me shivers

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. But but but it's the BUY-BULL! And a GOOD GUY did that!

Therefore it's GOOD! Satan is inspiring your "ewwwww" reaction! :sarcasm:

[FlaGranny]

12. My brother had to get circumcised

in his 20s. Sometimes it is medically necessary. Sometimes the foreskin is tight and painful and cannot be retracted to be washed. Then bacteria accumulate, thus recurrent infection and pain and antibiotics OR daily pain from retracting to wash. Over the years I have heard of many, many cases of 2, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20-year-olds being circumcised electively because of infections and pain. My son has three boys. None were circumcised at birth, but one had to be circumcised at age 3.

Of course, I guess there are those who believe it is NEVER necessary, but I'll bet you they've never gone through the repeated infections and pain that require the surgery.

Edit: No doctor is going to suggest circumcision for an 8-year-old unless it is absolutely necessary.

[LeftyMom]

16. The current treatment for that is a steroid cream

Generally the problem is caused by parents, doctors or caregivers retracting the foreskin prematurely.

In countries where intactness is the norm, such as Sweden, the rate of circumcisions for medical reasons after infancy is less than 1%. There's good reason to believe the much higher rate in the US is due to medical professionals who do not know how to care for the intact penis or value wholeness.

[nutsnberries]

32. Steroid Cream does not always work.

this might not be the whole story here.

maybe steroid cream has already been attempted.

[LeftyMom]

37. Yes but it's generally the first appropriate response

Many american doctors are shockingly ignorant of care of the intact penis. A child I know was circed at age 2 for "phimosis," a completely bullshit diagnosis since a two year old's foreskin is generally still fused and it's not abnormal at all to be non-retractile at that age or any point before pubescence.

[nutsnberries]

40. maybe many doctors are ignorant. but with 2 sons, that has not been

my experience.

since the boy in question is 8, it's seems just as reasonable to assume that the boy's parents did not want to circumcise him and there may be more to this story. Why assume the mother is uninformed on the subject? Maybe she's not thrilled about the idea either! There are cases when it is the right thing to do.
I just don't like the assumptions in this thread. Not enough info to draw conclusions.

[LeftyMom]

42. I'm not saying it's not the best option in this case (I have no idea)

but I'm suspicious since

1. many foreskin problems in the US are mishandled (and more so in the south and midwest than on the coasts, due to differences in circ rates) with surgery rather than non-surgical intervention

2. the division of the parents leads me to suspect there is a non-surgical option the father wants to try or a less intverventive surgery (dorsal slits are sometimes used to treat phimosis and infection- basicly splitting the foreskin on one side so it pulls back easily)

3. the rate of medical circumcisions in countries where infant curcumcision is not the norm is very very tiny, suggesting that the chances any male will require theraputic circumcision later in life are small indeed.

Also I want to share information about alternatives and intact care since there are plenty of parents and future parents here and there was some misinformation and outdated advice presented on the thread.

[Left Is Write]

39. I've had friends who were told to pull back their infant sons' foreskins

to clean them.

Fortunately, my son's pediatrician never told me any such thing. I've always left his foreskin alone. He's four.

[LeftyMom]

15. Good for him!

When little girls get infections we don't cut thier labia off, we treat the infection. The way boys in this country are treated is barbaric.

[DemInDistress]

17. 59 yrs later I still have had no trouble with my tool and the cover

that protects it..



edit to add smiley

[LizW]

18. I think part of this "recurrent infection" problem is

that sometimes no one clearly instructs boys how to clean themselves. Our pediatrician was very clear and precise about penis care when our boys were infants, and as they got old enough to understand, he told them, too. Even now that they are teens, when we go for a check-up he checks the penis and scrotum and makes sure everything's okay down there. (Which is a good thing, because they sure aren't going to let ME look!) And he reminds them every time about washing.

Girls get instruction all the time about how to keep clean and prevent infection, and boys should get it too.

[A Brand New World]

19. I agree that it's lack of education. My son, who is now 24, is

uncircumcised and has never had any problems. But I kept him seriously clean as an infant and toddler and taught him to do the same when he got old enough to take care of himself.The pediatricians must instruct the parents instead of just using the knife! Barbaric practice IMHO!!

[LeftyMom]

20. Retreacting and cleaning an infant is not needed or beneficial

and actually increases the likelihood of phimosis (tight or non-retractile foreskin in older children and adults) adhesions and infection.

"Care of the Foreskin

The natural penis requires no special care. A child's foreskin, like his eyelids, is self-cleansing. For the same reason it is inadvisable to lift the eyelids and wash the eyeballs, it is inadvisable to retract a child's foreskin and wash the glans. Immersion in plain water during the bath is all that is needed to keep the intact penis clean.26

The white emollient under the child's foreskin is called smegma. Smegma is probably the most misunderstood, most unjustifiably maligned substance in nature. Smegma is clean, not dirty, and is beneficial and necessary. It moisturizes the glans and keeps it smooth, soft, and supple. Its antibacterial and antiviral properties keep the penis clean and healthy. All mammals produce smegma. Thomas J. Ritter, MD, underscored its importance when he commented, "The animal kingdom would probably cease to exist without smegma."27

Studies suggest that it is best not to use soap on the glans or foreskin's inner fold.28 Forcibly retracting and washing a baby's foreskin destroys the beneficial bacterial flora that protect the penis from harmful germs and can lead to irritation and infection. The best way to care for a child's intact penis is to leave it alone. After puberty, males can gently rinse their glans and foreskin with warm water, according to their own self-determined needs. "

That's from Paul M. Fleiss, MD who is considered an expert on care of intact boys and non-surgical intervention in problems with the foreskin, in Mothering magazine. http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html

[Roon]

21. OK, I was learning a lot from this thread

but that post is just plain TMI! :puke:

[Left Is Write]

41. But it's not TMI for those who need that information...

Specfically, caregivers for uncircumcised boys. I'm grateful I got good advice instead of misinformation when my son was an infant.

[BikeWriter]

22. They ought to print instructions on these things!

[UncleSepp]

25. Makes sense, girls don't retract the clitoral hood and wash...

Who would do that when washing a baby girl? It would be bizarre!

I guess the "cleanliness" thing is the same bug that leads people to ram cotton swabs in their ears, also another very unhealthy practice. People do odd things.

[LeftyMom]

30. It's fairly analogous to douching

in that cleaning a self-cleaning area does more harm than good.

[billyskank]

28. Now I think I have read everything

:hi:

[yurbud]

24. why is it guys can't live with having an inch at most of genitals

inside without getting infections, but it's okay for all of women's to be inside?

Check the history on this. Circumcision caught on in the US because of anti-masturbation hysteria in the 19th century.

[Bridget Burke]

27. This story is not about circumcision in general....

But doctors have recommended it in this particular case. The father--ex-husband of the mother--may well have issues of his own.

[gollygee]

29. I think both parents should have to agree

to have a child circumcized.

[tjdee]

31. I hope the dad wins the case--and I rarely side with the men, LOL.

:evilgrin:

Circumcision is SO unnecessary, and I'm losing respect for doctors (having been to two in the past year who are more than happy to pump me with meds that aren't necessary). I don't know if the boy has been taught the proper way to clean himself, and if he's only living with his mother, she's going to have to check and help him, which I assume isn't happening.

However, since two doctors have recommended circumcision, I think this trial is a good idea so whatever is best for the boy is what happens. It's amazing to me that men in Europe, Africa, etc. don't have these problems...since they're mostly uncut, wouldn't they be rampant with never ending infections :eyes: ?

[nutsnberries]

33. Responders in this thread, please keep in mind-

you may not know the whole story and jumping to conclusions is stupid.

I would love to side with the father. Unfortunately, I have an 8 year old son who has seen some excellent Children's Hospital Urologists, all recommend circumcision. It's NOT a cleanliness issue. He has an older brother with a foreskin that never had any trouble at all. We;ve used the steroid cream. Latest doctor suspects BXO and says a full circumcision is the best way to keep the skin of the penis from being affected. I'm currently looking into finding out if we can do a test to confirm or eliminate BXO before going through with the circumcision. I don't want to do it but I also don't want to be stupid and risk a bigger problem down the road.

http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/BXO/

Don't assume the father is right on this. And, if anyone out there knows about BXO (tests for it or treatment) please let me know.

Thanks.

[realisticphish]

34. as is what I always post in these threads

i'm circumsized; i'm 20 years old.
I don't hate my parents.
I don't wish I had my foreskin back.
I don't feel like less of a man.
I couldn't care less about which way the parents choose in this situation. Bascially, my only thought is to err on the side of no surgery, since it is basically elective, and could create the danger that is inherrent to any surgery (infection, etc). But there is no evidence I've seen that says that circumsision has negative effects on a man.

However, one thing I WOULD say is that at 8 years old, my reaction to a knife in the crotch area would be "fuck that" (though I probably wouldn't use those exact words)

[Benfea]

36. Why are all the really wierd cases from Cook County?

Geography: Cook County contains Chicago and some (mostly northwest) suburbs.

Before moving to the Chicago area, I remember reading about a court case from Cook in which a man was found innocent of DUI because he was too drunk to understand that he didn't have to take the breathalyzer test. >.<

[cynatnite]

38. At that age it's not something to take lightly...

I feel for the poor kid more than I do the parents.