I just spent 20 minutes telling a student I couldn't lie on his reference

[Lisa]

He is applying for grad school, and wanted me to write a letter for him which listed a bunch of things which he claimed he did in other courses. I had to tell him that, since I'd only had him for one course, I could only use examples from what happened in that particular class -- and that, because the school he's applying to has a standard application form, I would have to leave some of the questions blank, because we just didn't cover some of the things which they were asking about, e.g. his performance on individual research papers. (I'd actually suggested that he approach someone he'd had for more courses -- and who was a tenured faculty member -- since that would carry more weight with an evaluation committee. He claimed that only one other instructor agreed to help him, since he wanted the letter in 48 hours.)

The course he took with me was "Research Methods and Ethics". I asked him if he realized that using information which I hadn't observed, with him as the sole source, would be a lapse of judgement on my part, and a conflict of interest on his part. (We did cover the scientific method in class, and also did a unit on academic dishonesty.)

He insisted (exact words) "No it wouldn't, because I'm a good person. Just tell them that I did extra work for you, and I'll back you up."

(Memo to self: be sure to cover "tautologies" and "circular reasoning" more clearly in class next time.)

What makes all of this especially ironic is that he is applying for a disaster planning program. Is this guy the next Mike Brown?

[BikeWriter]

1. You could write on his application, "You did a great job, Brownie!"

[Richardo]

17. .

:rofl:

BW!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. Just write "This student seems to be

dead-centered in the new American ehtics and a certain future for fame."

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. It sounds more like tragedy than irony to me......

Is he the future of our country? This is scary stuff, IMHO.....

And good for you, BTW......

:scared:

[Lisa]

4. I'm tempted to go home and pour myself a large drink, CaliforniaPeggy ...

Besides the fact that he seems to have missed a couple of major things from the course, it's the sort of thing which someone should know is wrong to do, even without going to college (or high school, heck!). So I'm kind of depressed. I know what you mean by "scary", though ... I saw the Enron documentary last night, and I know I'm going to having some unpleasant visions about what kind of trouble my student could get into.

[Heddi]

5. I've never applied to grad school, but...

wouldn't you be obligated to include in his reference letter (if you write one) that he asked you to fabricate information so that he would appear more "qualified" for their program?

I mean, it's not like he did this accidentally, or had one of those "oh, I thought when we covered X, it would count as Y on this form" type of thing. Based on your post, he knew that he didn't meet certain requirements and is asking you to fabricate his college education so that he can be higher up on the "grad school choose" list.

Seems rather unethical, and I don't know that I'd want someone like that in my grad-school program, especially since he doesn't sound terribly qualified (based on what he was supposed to be critiqued on), and that would be unfair if someone was equally unqualified in the same areas but would have gotten in if he was honest in his application and reference letters.

I think I'd rather pull my teeth out than ask my teachers to lie on a letter of reccomendation. I mean, that kind of limits the "reccomendation" part of it, right?

Either that, or just don't write the letter at all. I think that he's being quite unfair to you by asking you to fabricate information which then puts YOUR ethics on the line and possibly your job if someone were to find out that he DIDN'T do X, Y and Z, but you said he did.

Oh. Tough tough. And I thought it was hard being a student :D

[Lisa]

10. I've decided to go with a "reality-based" letter ...

The school had some fairly specific questions on its form, and didn't actually leave room for additional material. I suppose they were getting tired of referees either putting down single-word "assessments", or rambling on some unrelated trivia (the department chair just griped about this to me last week).

So I just filled in points I could corroborate, based on my class records -- his attendance, the scores the other students gave his group on their presentation -- that kind of thing. Since we generally don't put a lot of emphasis on attendance at the college level, that should be an indication that I don't really have much info on this guy ... the committee could pick up on this and ask for clarification, in which case I will broach the subject. As it is, I don't think that there is enough in my assessment to get him admitted -- they really seem to want individual research ability, which I couldn't mark him on -- and anyway there is nothing in the document which could be construed as a smear (I don't think he'd try to sue me, but one never knows, these days).

I don't know if they'll call me back, but after thinking about this -- and you bring up some excellent points, so thanks for posting -- for one thing, I had better tell "Professor Joe" that this guy wanted me to give him credit for the paper he'd done for Joe's course. (I did ask him why he didn't ask Professor Joe for a reference, since he has tenure, and he went all vague.)

Funny thing is -- I hadn't emphasized the potential damage to my reputation when I questioned his strategy (I didn't want to instigate a fight), but I had heard that one reason why some universities have gone to a more rigorous evaluation is to discourage instructors from inflating student qualifications in order to bolster their own prestige ("look, I've gotten 10 people into grad school, shouldn't that count for my tenure application?"), and then refusing to take responsibility if the student later ran into problems. When I mentioned this to the guy, he looked flummoxed, and said that he didn't think that I, of all people, would have an ulterior motive in all of this.

Sigh.

[deadparrot]

6. Does it have to be delivered sealed?

Meaning that he won't be able to look at it? Because if it does, I'd write down the account of what happened and send it in. :)

[Lisa]

7. the school specified a sealed envelope, signed across the seal

I think most places will let students see their files, if they submit a request form. That's why I was careful to stick to the facts (verifiable from my class records), in case I were ever accused of saying unfair things about him.

[Roland99]

8. I'd make him take that "ETHICS" class again!

What a moran!

[JVS]

9. If you don't think that you can write him a good recommendation...

it is only right that you tell him. I really think that you should inform this student that you don't feel that you can recommend him.

[Lisa]

11. I did -- and I even suggested he pick someone who has higher standing

... than I do, so it'd look better. Verbally and in writing, and he still came back and asked for a reference. I told him what I could and couldn't say on the form, and he still wanted me to write it.

[hfojvt]

12. I sure hated that part of the application

I graduated in 1985 and applied for grad school in early 1988. Other than freshman calc and the sophomore math course, I did not have the same prof for more than one class. I had a hard time believing any of my profs would remember me. Except one, and she refused to do it - claimed she did not remember me, although I had her as part of the math education program which only had about 40 students and she was my advisor for two tri-mesters as well. Plus I had alot of classes taught by TAs.

[Metta]

13. Red flags all over the place.

This kid needs a crash course in ethics before he gets his * caught in the wringer. But, hey, we can only set the table; we can't make anyone eat.

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. OMG! That's too funny - he had for "Research methods and ethics"

and he wants you lie on a recommendation, saying he'll "back you up".

Tell him that he should grad school, because his skill level is so high he should go right into the workplace, working Ann Coulter's fact checker.

[izzybeans]

15. I usually just say that I'm just a graduate student PTL and that

nobody at the school you want to go to cares to hear from me. I will write your letter based on what we've done in this class. Beyond that my advice to you is that graduate admissions is a game. You need to learn how to play it. Networking is a big deal. Find out if any of your other professors have connections or are influential in this field. A recommendation from them is worth more than the price of your GRE class.


I also say that "blind reviews" carry more weight. It is best that you send it marked as confidential, so that it remains a private communication between myself and your admissions committee. This will suggest to them that none of the conflicts of interest this person is asking you to partake in took place. In your case I would end it in, you do realize what your asking me to do does not bode well for your ability to apply the knowledge of our class to a real life situation. Why might that be? If he can't explain it. YOu might just pass on the recommendation.

[Lisa]

16. remember that Far Side "prehistoric resumes" cartoon?

I think the punchline was something like "your references are all baboons!"

Whenever someone asks me for a reference -- not just this guy, but everybody -- I do what you do, and explain how lowly-regarded non-tenured instructors actually are. One of the other sessionals says "I wouldn't even ask myself for a reference" -- students are actually shocked to hear that there is an academic pecking order. I learned this first-hand, when I sat in on the graduate committee as a student rep -- basically, the profs put aside any references that weren't from assistant or full professors. The fact that I'm not on the regular faculty listing, and I don't even have an office or phone extension this term, would make me even more dubious a choice. (That student said, "I've been trying to get in touch with you for weeks" -- and didn't seem to realize that any admissions committee would have similar trouble.)

Recently, I looked through my records and realized that I have done about 9 or 10 letters (and only because students insisted, despite my recommendations to ask a "real" prof). Only one person has reported success, and that was for a summer job, not a grad school admission! So I've started adding that to my standard warning.

[izzybeans]

18. I usually write letters for folks heading to applied programs

but do my best to network them into a relationship with someone of more influence if they have any aspiration of becoming an academic. I ask them to name me the most memorable profs. and I pick from the list and write a recommendation for a recommendation. This has only happened twice. Both times the student had been succussful in both of those professors classes and were just afraid to approach them.

I like the cartoon. I think I'll just say from now on: I'm merely a baboon. You will want a more highly evolved primate to determine your social selection. Though we are nearly identical in genetic makeup, that small difference will determine whether you mutate into a graduate student or not.

[Lisa]

19. l try to suggest a prof who's a specialist in their area of interest ...

Luckily, our department is still fairly small, and easygoing -- and even the profs who aren't as approachable are professional enough to pay attention to students who are getting postgrad-level marks. So by the time they reach the grad school application stage, interested students tend to have found faculty who can be references/mentors, who have active research projects, and may even be hiring lab assistants (yet another thing which I can't do, since I lack funding).

I don't know if what I'm doing counts as "networking", but if a student claims to be really interested in a particular topic or study area, I try to remember who is doing what in our department, and ask whether s/he has ever taken classes with the profs who have the most overlap. I can't claim definite successes, since so many other people -- the TAs, the sessionals, etc. -- are passing along referrals about potential references and supervisors that it's easy to forget who introduced whom.

A lot of the faculty try to be encouraging, even if they are snowed under with work, or heading out into the field -- so if there are still students wanting a reference from me, even after being given some alternative suggestions, it's generally because they have left it to the last minute. That, or the prof has declined (and in that case I don't want to know the details). The guy in yesterday's situation is actually a mature student -- he's been out in the workforce for awhile, I assume -- so I don't think that shyness was an issue for him, anyway. (One of the secretaries told me that he hasn't been reluctant to approach them, or any faculty member who happens by, about all kinds of matters.) I still think that he ought to have talked to "Mike", who teaches natural hazards, because a recommendation from him would look better for a disaster planning degree, plus Mike is quite respected and has lots of academic contacts -- and he is really nice about writing references on short notice. I guess it's possible that he didn't do well in Mike's courses (though Mike's been known to say nice things even if you only get a B-minus)... but in that case, I'm surprised that he'd be able to qualify for that specialized program.

p.s. I've been looking around for that Far Side cartoon -- no luck, but I'll post it if I find it. One of my colleagues told me that there's a book out with just Larson's caveman cartoons, "Prehistory of the Far Side" -- I'd bet it's in there. As I recall, the other skills the interviewee was claiming were fire-making and mammoth hunting ... and then he hits that unfortunate snag with the non-hominid references.

[Jimbo S]

20. "Highly qualified to run Enron"

or perhaps a career at Wall Street?