Is it better to have known love.....and to have lost it?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

Or not to have experienced it at all?

For me, the answer is...to have known it. No matter where it goes.....

Even if it has been lost......Even if there was pain at the ending.....

Love is worth all you experience, IMHO....ALL...

Because what is life without it? Empty, dark, sad.

To have experienced the joining of bodies and souls is worth all the pain in the world, to me.....

Inspired by RetroLounge's thread today......

And for you?

[ZombieNixon]

1. Yes, I would think 'tis better to have loved and lost than blah blah blah

I can't remember the rest right now, but at least while you're in love you get that good feeling even if you want to gnaw off your own leg to dull the pain a week later. :P

:hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. Now, now, my dear ZombieNixon!

You may NOT gnaw off any body parts, you hear me? No matter how bad the pain is!

:loveya: :hug:

[ZombieNixon]

7. Can I gnaw off someone else's leg, then?

:shrug: :P

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. NO, YOU MAY NOT!

Sheesh......:eyes:

:rofl:

:loveya: :hug:

[Mikimouse]

29. "tis better to have loved and lost...

In fact, I thought so highly of the experience that I did it twice! Pah!:evilgrin:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. I'm so sorry, my dear Mikimouse.......

Better luck next time? Or.....third time the charm?

:shrug:

[Mikimouse]

63. Not a snowball's chance for a third time...n/t

[billyskank]

2. Yeah probably

but maybe better still to be a eunuch. ;)

:hi:

[ZombieNixon]

6. No, no, life without the hosepipe and pumps would be boring.

Gods I can't believe I just called my junk a "hosepipe and pumps"! :silly:

:hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. Ah, my dear billyskank.....

Even eunuchs can love, and feel pain.....

Did you ever read "The Persian Boy" by Mary Renault? It's about Alexander the Great's lover.....who was a eunuch.

Excellent reading!

Love can illuminate us, and reveal us to ourselves, IMHO....

:loveya: :hug:

[XemaSab]

26. Noooooooo!

:o

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. My dear XemaSab!

I hear you!

:scared:

[billyskank]

47. I was not proposing it!

:hug: :hi:

[auntAgonist]

3. to have never

known love, would be the saddest thing of all. I cannot imagine ANYONE not knowing love.

To lose love is unimagineabley painful but full of heartfelt memory.


aA
:loveya:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. And you know I agree, my dear auntAgonist!

I have been there too......But no regrets ever!

:loveya: back atcha!

[Beer Snob-50]

4. without a doubt it is better to have loved and lost than to

never at all. Granted in many cases it sucks big time when you do lose it but the experiences are well worth the pain later.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. I agree, wholeheartedly!

Oftentimes, pain can lead to personal growth, as well.....

:hi:

[johnnie]

11. To love is one thing

To be loved is something that you can't know for sure. It's based on a degree of faith.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

13. My dear johnnie....

How right you are......

Faith is so essential to loving! As is trust.....

Even wedding vows don't give you a guarantee.....

There has to be integrity on the part of both people.....

:hug:

[terrya]

12. Yes...it is better to have known love and lost it, imo

I can't imagine never having experienced love. To never have loved someone...it just sounds unimaginably sad and empty.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. My dear terrya....

I agree, of course!

Before I was married, before I'd even been kissed or loved....

I used to wonder if anyone would ever love me.....

I was so very lonely...empty......but hopeful. I was young yet.....

[Orangepeel]

14. is it better to be happy for a while or to never be happy at all?

Of course, love does not equal happiness. But the principle is the same, as far as I'm concerned. Enjoy life, including love, while it is there.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

16. Hello to you, my dear orangepeel68......

As the saying has it: carpe diem, or seize the day!

For we live in the moment.....and who knows what the next moment will bring...

And that includes love.....

[LaurenG]

17. I think so, I'd be sad if I hadn't tasted it, even if it turned out badly

So yes.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

18. My dear OhioBlues!

Thank you for coming by today, with your thoughts.....

Some days I am philosophical, like today......

Love honors us by visiting our hearts......

It can inspire us to be more creative....even if it's the sadness that does the inspiring.....

:loveya: :hug:

[MissMillie]

19. Well, I know what it is like to love someone

but I have yet to know what it is like to be truly loved.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

20. My dear MissMillie.....

Never give up! Keep looking, keep working towards it......

Walk your path, and enjoy yourself to the maximum you can.....

We usually find things when we are least expecting them.....

At least that has been my experience.....

I hope you will find someone who will truly love you, for yourself....

:hug:

[REDKING]

21. I loved a girl once who made me

feel like I was 10 feet tall when she looked my way.Sometimes I still think of her and I smile.
Life is a moment,a blink,sometimes a kiss.Of course better to have loved.Hello peggy.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. My dear Rory......

I am so glad to see you today...Thank you for stopping by and commenting in my thread......

I agree so profoundly with all you've said here...

Life is a moment, a blink, sometimes a kiss...How lovely, and how true!

I thank you!

:loveya: :hug:

[REDKING]

23. A pleasure as always Peggy.

[evlbstrd]

25. That Bill S. was one smart feller.

Of course he was right.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

38. My dear evlbstrd!

What an unexpected pleasure!

Bill S? Is he the author of my quote?

Great to see you today! I should have threads in the middle of the day more often....


:loveya: :hug:

[evlbstrd]

41. Nice to "see" you, CP!

It's a slow day at work today, so I thought I'd lurk for a while. I really need to drag the laptop back into the living room at night.

The author was William Shakespeare.

[Deja Q]

27. I'll let you know.

:D

[CaliforniaPeggy]

39. My dear HypnoToad!

I hope you will......:hug:

[Lilith Velkor]

28. I have never known love, so I wouldn't know.

I think so, though. If I saw more evidence that people in general are capable of other emotions besides fear, I probably wouldn't hate them as much.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

40. I am so sorry that you have never experienced love...

I do hope that one day you will.....:hug:

[khashka]

30. Better to have loved and lost

Better still to have love and kept, but that ain't always possible. I try to keep it. Sure you can't always keep that feirce passion alive, no matter how hard you try. What you can do is appreciate what you had and appreciate what you can still have - a deep and abiding friendship.

Love above all. Whatever form that love takes.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law - Love is the law"

Khash.

[Call Me Wesley]

36. Is it a coincidence

that I just started to re-read Crowley's biography yesterday?

[khashka]

46. Probably not...

You, me and Heidi seem oddly linked.....

Is it the one by Israel Regardie? And did you steal my copy? 'Cause I just went to find it and there's a gap on the shelf where it is supposed to be.

Khash.

[Call Me Wesley]

51. I don't call it 'odd' ...

Nah, not Regardie. I have his books about the Golden Dawn and something Kabbalah related, I think, but it's a hard read (it's a bit boring.)

The book I'm reading now (again. I collected Crowley's and Crowley-related books since I was 13) is from John Symonds, "The Great Beast, The Life of Aleister Crowley." It's a long read, too, since he goeas back and forth historically and gives some explanations that make you chuckle while reading it.

[khashka]

62. Bad choice of words

Instead of odd, how about wonderfully strange or strangely wonderful or just damn nice :)

I was eighteen when I read The Book of The Law... and after that..... ah well, my ex-wife made me keep Crowley's books in the garage.

He was an odd but strange and interesting man. In many ways a contradiction.


Have you read the Book of Lies? There used to be this American commercial that stated "America doesn't want to just succeed" . And I would laugh and mutter " we wanna suck eggs as well". No one got it. Chapter 69 in the Book of Lies. For a man who shrouded his meanings in mystery that was a pretty obvious one.


Khash.

[Call Me Wesley]

66. LOL! I know that,

even I haven't read the Book of Lies.

I agree that he was a very interesting man, but I always refused to see him in any context of what he's most referred to. Given the history of his upbringing and the time he lived in, it all made sense, magick or not. It's like when I still hear people referring to De Sade as 'someone who tortured everybody.' He was a political writer who displayed the esatblishment of his time. So did Crowley, and I'm sure he's still chuckling about the legend he became. Laird of Boleskine.

[khashka]

71. Oops... here we go again!

Can't just leave it with Crowley.... gotta bring in De Sade!

I agree with you. Some of De Sade's stuff is kinda hot but basically he's talking philosophy and politics and just disguising them as porn. Hey, if it's porn it won't be taken seriously, right?

Khash.

(I do have a question for you. You're Swiss, right? So you either have German or French as a first language, right? And the other as a second. But your English is beyond excellent - you get colloquialisms, idioms, odd juxtapostions of phrases that a non-native speaker of English might well miss. How? Just asking.)


Khash.

[Call Me Wesley]

77. I'm Swiss,

my first language is German (however, which nobody really knows, it's a Swiss German dialect, so this makes high German our official first foreign language, actually. The same is applying for most Germans, too.) French was taught starting in fifth grade, then English (or Italian as an option.) Switzerland has 4 official languages, and living now in the Italian part has forced Italian as a language upon me as well (since my dad was Italian, he never cared raising us bilingual.)

But I've got all the juxtapositions, colloquialisms and idioms from Heidi, since we speak English together. Oh, a lot of southernisms too. ;)

Thank you for the compliment. I always think my English writing is so far beyond my knowledge of German that it's embarrassing.

[khashka]

86. No thanks necessary

I figured Heidi had a hand in some of it :)

And I've had Swiss friends before. I'm always amazed at their facility at learning other languages. (And yes, I know Swiss German is a bit different than German German).

Sill it amazes me. Your English writing makes you come across as a native speaker of English (much better than mine!).

I can manage some French, Spanish, German, Russian, Hindi, and Arabic. And my Latin is strictly schoolboy level. But I suck at all of them - I can barely manage English!

Khash.

[Call Me Wesley]

89. Heidi's my editor,

if it comes to written pieces I roughly translate into English from german. Like this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4747632

Otherwise I've seen many posts of mine (typos beside), where I fall into German sentence rules. But yes, I make the posts myself! :P

Don't sell yourself cheap, that's like not using a nice cane if you need to ... Your expressions always amaze me. That's what language is for, isn't it?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

43. My dear Khash!

You speak so well to me....you understand, don't you?

Everything you say here is so damn true....

I thank you.....


:loveya: :hug:

[khashka]

92. Hey, we're friends

And the reason for that is because we understand each other.... in spite of our manifold differences. Me gay, you straight. Me sadomasochist, you not. Me male, you female. Me young enough to be your child, you old enough to be my mother. (Say hi to your daughter for me! I was thinking earlier, I wish Peggy was my Mom, but decided I like our friendship so much I wouldn't change it at all)

And yet we understand each other.... and we both understand the beauty and misery of love.

(I did come home today - and got your calls. After the Fugitive debacle, I went to my parents. After all they got the letter. And they wouldn't let me drive. Since even if someone hit me and it was not my fault I'd still be hauled off to jail. Don't risk it. But I haven't been home until today and my cell was run down. So I picked up the charger. Will call you in the next few days - I'll be at my parents for the next few weeks, but will call. I'd love you to meet my mother!)

Khash.

[u4ic]

31. I'm a much better person for having loved

It takes one outside of oneself...to learn our ideas, our beliefs, our way, is not the only way...reaching out...there is fear, surely, but there is also a great desire to give...

It is truly a broadening and life changing experience.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

45. My dear u4ic.......

Absolutely! A thousand times YES.....

I have found that love has opened me to what gifts I have been privileged to possess...

It is amazing, to love another person......And wonderful......

:loveya: :hug:

[Fox Mulder]

32. I think it's better to not have loved at all.

The pain is too much to bear sometimes when the love is gone. :(

At least if you have never loved, then you won't know that hurt, right?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

49. Ah, my dear Fox Mulder......

I hear you....and yes, you are correct: If you have never loved, then you won't know the hurt of losing that love.....

But for me at least, I would be half dead if I had never loved anyone.

Because love opens you...yes, to pain sometimes...But also to extreme joy!

And joy can open you to your own creativity, your own gifts!

We were made to join with another person, IMHO.....

I hope you will find this joy and wholeness one fine day....

:loveya: :pals:

[Shine]

35. I totally agree with your every word.

Love is always worth it.
:loveya:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

50. Absolutely, my dear Shine!

ALWAYS.....:loveya:

[miss_american_pie]

37. Loving someone or being loved?

I think those are two different things.

It's always worth it to extend oneself in love, I think.

As for being loved unconditionally, hmmm. It's wonderful if it works out. But if it doesn't how much harder does that make future relationships? :shrug:

Deep thoughts in the lounge today. ;)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

52. Well, I was speaking from the point of view of loving someone else.....

Being loved is a different matter.....

I do believe that being loved unconditionally is a hard thing to accomplish....

Any time you have losses, it can make future relationships more difficult, I think.....

Unless you can absorb your loss, learn from it, and then go on.....

Deep thoughts, indeed....I had this inside me, and I wanted to get it out for all to see, share, and comment on.....


:loveya: :hug:

[redqueen]

42. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

Some days I'm more aware of the pain, and on those days it seems like the answer is really no... but when I look deep into my heart, it's yes.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

53. I believe that it takes real courage to face any losses.......

But if you can, then you are succeeding at life......:hug:

[redqueen]

60. There is no remedy for love but to love more!

:loveya:


I may not have believed it before... but I do now, and for always. :)


Thanks for this wonderful thread!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

67. My dear redqueen.......

I am so happy to have made this huge contribution to your life!

And...you're welcome!

:loveya:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

44. Loving is pure joy until we get grabby about it

When love becomes muddled with desire, it's really not love anymore. That's why "losing" hurts.

Better to love without expectations, in my opinion...not that it's easy.
:loveya:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

54. THAT is the trick.....to love without expectations!

And a tough one it is to accomplish too!

I agree, love and lust are different things...but they do tend to go together...

At least, they should! :evilgrin:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

83. As long as we're aware that they're two separate things...

then our disappointment at having our lust rejected doesn't have to cloud the love we feel for someone. :)

[redqueen]

74. Love without expectations...

you're right, it's not easy... in fact it's very hard (from my perspective)... but learning how is worth it!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

84. I'm glad I still love those...

with whom lust was not mutual.

And I'm sorry that some of my loved ones felt that love could not survive without lust being fulfilled. I still love them too, and remain open to friendship if they ever change their minds. :)

[XemaSab]

48. It really depends....

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

For example, when you meet someone who you think is PERFECT and so you drift apart from the person you're currently involved with who lives far away because you've now found something better, but after years of being this person's friend and lusting after them from afar you finally make your move and the person rips your still beating heart out and stomps on it repeatedly and you wander the earth a broken and bitter person for years and then you realize that the person you thought was PERFECT has turned into a crack addicted mentally ill FREAK and you feel slightly better, but still shitty...

...no, notsomuch.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

55. OMIGOD!

How horrible.....

My complete sympathies!

:hug:

[XemaSab]

56. Yeah, it was really lame

I'll spare you the details. :(

[CaliforniaPeggy]

57. ................

:hug:

[billyskank]

58. That sound like it totally totally totally totally totally totally totally

totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally totally sucks.
:hug:

[XemaSab]

59. Yeah it did.

Then after that it sucked some more.

:hug:

[Laelth]

138. XemaSab, you dated this girl's brother?

She told me she had a brother! Small world. :shrug:



My sympathies. :hug:

-Laelth

[Rowdyboy]

61. Far, far, far better to have loved and lost.....

Never to have loved at all is simply inconceivable to me.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

64. My dear Rowdyboy......

Absolutely....to not have loved is to be only technically alive, IMHO...

:loveya: :hug:

[Rowdyboy]

70. I've grown so much during our relationship that it amazes me.....

I hungered for it until I found it and, luckily for me, the feeling was mutual. I'm a much more compassionate, patient, and giving person because of my relationship.

:hug:

[redqueen]

75. I'm so happy for you...

so envious! but so happy :)

:hi:

[Rowdyboy]

85. I never thought it would happen to me....and it almost didn't

Right time, right place, right person....What can I say?

There's a radio talk show finance guy , Dave Ramsey, who answers the question "How are you doing?" with "Better than I deserve." That's my story, I'm doing better than I deserve, and don't mind admitting it.

[redqueen]

91. Heh...

well I think you deserve it!

[leftofthedial]

65. love is for suckers

money and sex are the objects of desire

this cynical moment brought to you by leftofthedial's romance service

[CaliforniaPeggy]

72. Now you're making me laugh!

Indeed, you are a bit cynical......money and sex are the objects of desire indeed......

But so is wanting someone's heart, and soul!

I do not think that love is for suckers......It is for everyone, regardless of age, sex, orientation, and so on......

I appreciate your comments, however cynical they might be!


:hug:

[leftofthedial]

78. wait 'til you check out my Valentine's Day specials

[Call Me Wesley]

68. Of course it is better to have known it and lost it.

Even with all the pain. It is not 'lost' at all but transformed, if we don't stand still and long for something that has passed. Because it will make us blind for the new sould that will enter/have entered our lives. Love is nothing static; and if we fail the first time, we'll always get countless other chances. If we don't stand still.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

76. My dear Call Me Wesley.......

I hadn't thought about love being static......or transformed after loss...

This is an insight that could change how I see relationships....

I thank you for your insight!

It helps me........ :hug:

[Miss Marmelstein]

69. Well....

Let me weigh in if I may...as a somewhat expert in the field of love and loss.

Having been widowed 3 times before I was 34, I have to say it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

Even if I knew then what I know now, I would not change a thing. I am the person I am today because of the men I was married to and the time we shared together. The pain, grief and sorrow of each loss only made me a stronger woman, one who can cope with just about any situation life may throw at me.

And the fact that I am married again (hence my husbands nickname 'Quatro') proves that I was not afraid to move on with my life again. Love is such a wonderful experience...I cannot imagine a life without it.

How you doing, dear Calpeg?

:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

79. My dear Miss Marmelstein.......

Oh, I agree completely....each relationship contributes to the next one!

How horrifying that you lost three husbands to death before you were 34...

You are very strong indeed....VERY.

I am fine, if a bit philosophical today....hence this thread, which has grown longer than I had thought it would.......

I hope that your own healing, both mental and physical, is well along.....

:loveya: :hug:

[bigwillq]

73. Loved and lost

I feel you learn from every experience you go through, good and bad.
I've learned from past experiences of the ones I've loved but then lost.
:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

81. My dear bigwillq!

Oh, how I agree.....

You do learn from every experience, no matter how good or bad it might have been.....

At least, you should learn!

For learning leads to growth......


:hug:

[anarch]

80. I think so, but that saying does make me think

of a scene in that movie Men in Black where Will Smith quotes it at Tommy Lee Jones' character, who just glares at him balefully and says, "Try it."

I still think so, though. I wouldn't trade my experiences in life, despite how badly some of them ended up. I dunno.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

82. My dear anarch......

Perhaps you're young.....

I think that sometimes getting older can lead to greater vision in this department....

All your experiences, good and bad, add to you as a person....

Take what good you can from the bad ones, and then let them go......

:hug:

[SteppingRazor]

87. Ignorance Is Bliss...

If you've known love, and lost it, you're in pain.

If you've never known love, then you're not.

Therefore, it's better to have never loved in the first place.

Of course, if you love, then lose, then find love again, then it's better to have loved.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

88. My dear SteppingRazor.....

I believe if you read my post #49, you will have my answer.....

:hug:

[skygazer]

90. Today is a perfect day to ask me that question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4816002

And even now I say, it's better to have loved and lost. The past five years have been wonderful and fun and full of joy. I'd like it to last longer but that's not going to happen. But I will always be grateful for five good years of love and companionship.

Not and ending but a beginning.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

96. My dear skygazer......

I did read your thread, but I didn't know how to respond......

But perhaps you helped trigger my thread.....

Endings can most certainly be beginnings, if we let them!

And gratitude is also a very important component of healing...

I hope you will find the love you truly deserve...a true love...




:loveya: :hug:

[NMDemDist2]

93. I found out today one of my loves died Friday

:cry:

it was a drag and I'll miss him. so glad we got to spend some time together last year before he moved to Hawaii

but it sucks....I'm happily married but..... I'll still miss him. I am glad I was able to help his only daughter with information I had that she needed though.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

97. Your loss is most terrible.....for part of you will always belong

to your former love....

And now that bond has been ruptured, and of course you are grieving...

Do not feel guilty for your grief! Accept your loss, take what good there is and go forward.....

Allow yourself time to cry and to remember....

:hug:

[NMDemDist2]

105. thanks Peggy, that's good advice n/t

[In_The_Wind]

94. I shared my thoughts on RetroLounge's thread earlier today.

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4815851&mesg_id=4816641

I'm going to change the words of Willie Nelson's song:

To all the men I've loved before
Who traveled in and out my door
I'm glad they came along
I dedicate this song
To all the men I've loved before
To all the men I once caressed
And may I say I've held the best
For helping me to grow
I owe a lot I know
To all the men I've loved before
The winds of change are always blowing
And every time I try to stay
The winds of change continue blowing
And they just carry me away
To all the men who shared my life
Who now are someone else's love
I'm glad they came along
I dedicate this song
To all the men I've loved before
To all the men who cared for me
Who filled my nights with ecstasy
They live within my heart
I'll always be a part
Of all the men I've loved before
The winds of change are always blowing
And every time I try to stay
The winds of change continue blowing
And they just carry me away
To all the men we've loved before
Who traveled in and out our doors
We're glad they came along
We dedicate this song
To all the men we've loved before
To all the men we've loved before
Who traveled in and out our doors
We're glad they came along
We dedicate this song
To all the men we've loved before

[CaliforniaPeggy]

98. I did read your post in RetroLounge's thread earlier today....

My dear Joani...

And the verse you quoted from the song about the rose made me cry...

I love that song, and always have!

I love how Bette Midler sings it.....

This song too, by Willie Nelson, is most wonderful. And true.....

Thank you for illuminating our paths today, and all days!

:loveya: :hug:

[In_The_Wind]

117. My post was and is about going on with life.

The experiences of our past make us who we are today. We should allow ourselves to grieve for lost love, to heal, gather wisdom from all we've felt. Then go forward to love again.

The last time I cried myself to sleep for love, it was about a relationship which ended over 3 years ago. After Dana broke up with me by email, I was afraid to risk falling in love again. I was reluctant to have my heart, my trust, my dreams shredded into little pieces by anyone. Happily, I find that I'm changing. Oh, I'm still very cautious about the men I date. I don't trust as easily as I once did. I'm honest about what I need to be happy within a relationship. However I'm willing to kindly say goodbye to the wrong man when it becomes apparent that it isn't working for both of us.



Bette reminds me of the beauty of tomorrow.
Willie reminds me of the beauty in all those yesterdays.



Way back in my high school year book my motto was: Exist through today in hopes of a better tomorrow.
My ambition was: Find the better tomorrow.
I was going to say that apparently not much has changed in 40 years but it has. I'm no longer merely existing through today. I celebrate life with each dawn.



:pals::hug:

[GalleryGod]

95. I Agree, Peggy and Will S. Here's one I lost....

Miami Beach, Mixed-Teams, 1988.

That's me on the far left..."covering my postage stamp of area"; Meanwhile, Antoinette spikes-whilst-Sky-walking ! What a woman!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

99. She may be gone from your life, my dear GalleryGod.....

But she will always live in your heart....:hug:

[REDKING]

100. You asked a question.....

That'll teach ya.Love?
I remember her hair,
I remember her touch and it was gentle and giving.
I remember laughing loud.
I remember wanted.
I remember beer on her mum's carpet.
I remember.
An essence of memory,and it was real ......stay gold.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

101. That is beautiful, Rory......

Thank you for answering my question.....

Stay gold too, my friend......

:hug:

[REDKING]

102. Like I said....

You are the Lady of DU...A Queen.

[lizziegrace]

103. She truly is, isn't she?

:hug: Peggy!

[REDKING]

104. There is No-one like that one ......Trust me

Well you already know this.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

107. My dear lizziegrace!

:hug: back atcha......

[CaliforniaPeggy]

106. I thank you, my dear Rory........

With all my heart.....:hug:

[bridgit]

108. my dearest, Cal Peggy...

to my mind (which many may well chuckle over), that would depend entirely upon as to whether i = me, myself and/or i...or indeed outside forces (and they know who they may be) had brought incidentals into the mix that would have born ill upon "the losing" of love...any love i.e., did i misplace it out of negligence? did i somehow not cull, or cultivate the environment within which love could more completely flourish? did i not sustain those articles that would have allowed love to proceed as grand as love can be? as lovey as is Queen to P4 deathly grim? did i allow, out of my thirst for love requited (perhaps not the word), some 'other' to fault my concept of love and thereby surrender it = love?

hubby said just today, one of the saddest things if ever heard. he mentioned that while he has loved...unconditionally, and felt love, as a palpable, tactile experience felt it in many things, that he has never felt loved. we are as tight as any two people can be, but i will say this...and it may seem silly but...

never say "no" to love, that is my little article of faith; my hope is that i have somehow contributed to the spirit of your thread today :hi: :hug: :loveya:

[REDKING]

109. With the greatest of respect...

You're words sound conditioned,Love is not a slave to condition.

[bridgit]

110. are you implying that all you need to do is place a seed...

on top of the earth and it will grow?

[REDKING]

113. I am implying nothing.

What I am suggesting to you is that you're words ,well,Cold.Seemed that you work love out.Not just let it happen.

[bridgit]

119. i, conversely, am implying 'something'...

beyond so-called love merely "happening", as would a one night stand, love at first sight, or some semblance of love, love requires maintenance, vigilance certainly after having 'happened'; that is not cold...that, to my mind and imo, is proactive my friend. rain may well fall, but not everyday; yet it is predicated upon specific conditions being present firstly.

many good folks sit round waiting for either love or rain or both to befall them...it is being cognizant of these conditions that contribute to the mind-set that enables understanding, enables love, again imo. i would refer you to 'the book of miracles'. it is a mandela of condition. not 'hard as stone' condition (i think you're reading that part too harshly...though perhaps something so simply as flossing your teeth yet nevertheless there it is.

you be the judge.

[REDKING]

140. I am no judge.

Maybe I did read that bit to harshly and certainly no offence was intended.
Take care.

[bridgit]

143. peace...

:hi:

[REDKING]

177. Always.........

[CaliforniaPeggy]

111. My dear bridgit.......

You have indeed contributed to the spirit of my thread today!

Never say "no" to love....Indeed, and I agree completely!

:loveya: :hug:

[tjdee]

112. Uh, no.

No it isn't. I feel kind of funny being the contrarian here, but what you talkin' bout Willises?

I'd much rather have never loved and seen the whole thing from the outside, in others' lives, and such. I wouldn't be nearly as jaded and cynical if I'd never loved myself. But I'm talking here of romantic love. Family love/friend love/humanity love is always awesome, even when it's not.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

115. Well, my dear tjdee......

There is no rule here that you must agree with my point of view....

I wanted people to think about what love and loss meant to them....

This includes you!

And I'm sorry that you haven't had the romantic love that would really light you up.....

Family/friend/humanity love is always awesome, indeed! I agree completely...

I do hope that someday someone will love you and then you'll understand what all the hoopla is about....and you will know much joy.....

:hug:

[Ladyhawk]

114. I don't know. I feel empty without it now. Before, I didn't know what

I was missing and it didn't hurt so much. I think it would have been easier on me not to have even gone there.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

116. My dear Ladyhawk......

Of course, the loss of love leaves you feeling empty...

Everyone has their own way of dealing with this loss....and I'm sorry you haven't been able to take the good from your loss and put it to work for you.......

I hope that someday you will find someone who is worthy of you, and who will love you unconditionally and forever.....

:hug:

[Tikki]

118. Ain't love grand...but, Unconditional Love...

ROCKS.....




The Tikkis

[CaliforniaPeggy]

121. Unconditional love does rock indeed......

Good for you two!

:applause:

[Divameow77]

120. As someone going through a divorce

I want to say love sucks, but I still love my husband it just hurts right now.

I turn 29 tomorrow and I never thought I would be going through what I am at this time in my life but I still remember the feeling of first being in love and it was great.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

122. I am so sorry, my dear Divameow77......

When marriages end, love hurts a lot....

I hope that your pain will soon be over, and that you will be able to remember all the good that existed for you.....

:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

123. OK everybody....I'm off to my Dem Club meeting...catch you all later!

[Nicole]

124. Better to have loved & lost

than never have loved at all.

That said, I'm avoiding it like the plague in the future. I hate losing.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

125. Well, now, my dear Nicole.....

One fine day, you just might be surprised to find yourself deciding that being in love is a fine thing...

You never know!

Losing can reveal more about yourself than winning.......

:hi:

[Nicole]

126. My dear Peggy

I was in love before & it was a fine thing indeed, while it lasted. :)

[KitchenWitch]

127. Absolutely

Life without knowing love is meaningless and empty. You gotta have the downs to get the ups.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

128. My dear KitchenWitch!

You have spoken the truth....

Without contrasts, we don't know where we are......

And that is true for love as for anything...maybe truer!

Otherwise, the landscape is meaningless, featureless......

:loveya: :hug:

[LeftyMom]

129. I think so

I'm a better and more complete person having experienced love. If the feeling were lost, I'd still know that such feelings exist and it would give me hope.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

130. I agree, wholeheartedly!

My dear LeftyMom, it is undoubtedly true that we become better and more complete when we love someone....when we absorb them, and they absorb us...

And here I mean souls more than bodies.....

Love is such an amazing thing!

:loveya: :hug:

[LeftyMom]

131. Isn't it though?

It's such an odd feeling that somebody could make me happier than I can express simply by existing and being himself. I wouldn't trade the feeling (or the gentleman who inspires it) for anything, but at times it perplexes me and is a bit overwhelming.

[Laelth]

132. I don't know how to answer.

I don't know what it would be like (can't even imagine what it would be like) to have never known love. I am in the loved and painfully lost camp, and I have never felt like I had a choice in the matter. People, I think, are compelled to seek love, and are regularly burned by it because we can't escape that overwhelming urge.

In a way, your question might have been better phrased thus: Would it be better to be a human or a rock?

Honestly, I've never tried being a rock, so I can't say what it might be like. As a human, I am compelled to seek love, and I am much happier with love than without it. Who isn't?

-Laelth


P.S. Thus, Bill Clinton and Monica.



Edit:Laelth--clarity.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

133. Thank you for your thoughtful answer, my dear Laelth......

I must say that it is impossible for us to be rocks....

They are not alive, and we are...We have no choice but to be human...

Perhaps you keep getting burned by love because you have made some choices that might have been unwise...

Remember, falling in love is an act of your will. You decide...At least this is what Erich Fromm said in his book "The Art of Loving."

I read it many years ago, and found it to be full of profound truths...

I love my husband because of what that book said to me.

I believe we all need to love and be loved in order to be whole.

[Laelth]

135. Hehe ...

And thank you, CaliforniaPeggy, for the thoughtful response. :)

I hope never to be burned again by lost love. My wife and my 2 daughters (ages 2 and 5) make it very clear that they love me on a semi-regular basis.

But things change. Soon enough, my daughters will go from thinking the world of me to thinking I'm a complete moron. That will hurt, and it will hurt only because I love them. And my wife ... life is transitory, and things change. What's good today may be rotten tomorrow. One never knows.

And, it's great to hear that we can't be rocks. Gosh, I was really worried about that one! :eyes:
Or, perhaps, that's what we all become in the end?

Peace.

-Laelth

[enigmatic]

134. yes

Love- even when it goes bad- is the high to end all highs. How you handle love is an emotional self-litmus test of sorts; how you react to and handle love is a big part of who you are.

It's something everyone needs to experience, even if it's ultimately futile in the abstract for some.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

136. My dear enigmatic......

How lovely (NO pun intended!) to have you join the discussion!

I agree about love being the high to end all highs...I have felt that, and it is amazing.

It is addicting too.

I thank you for being here, and for being you...



:loveya: :hug:

[enigmatic]

137. Hey Peggy!

:hug:

Sorry I haven't been around much; work has been pretty rough. But I'm glad to see you, too:)

[RetroLounge]

139. I would not have missed out on one minute of this love

even if I knew the pain that lie ahead for me. I have two beautiful children, have had 10 good years, and this wonderful amazing woman I love will always be in my life, just now it will be as my best friend instead of my lover, and as I adjust to that reality, and begin to think about more than what I am feeling, I will see my own pain ease and lessen.

I know I have the capacity for it, and will continue to love.

The pain is so intense sometimes that I think I'm gonna drown or suffocate, but I refuse to NOT be a person who loves, and the cynicism and hurt that I show sometimes in my threads are not always what I am feeling that day, or that moment, but more the beauty of words to express what I myself cannot always do.

So yes, my dear CP, it is better, and since I have experienced it more than once, and am now experiencing it once again, I would say I am either a helpless romantic or a stupid fool for love, but either way, I move forward and put out beauty and love into the world and hope it reflects back at me.

Life is love and love is poetry and poetry is life...

:hug:

RL

[In_The_Wind]

141. I'm glad to hear you say that this morning RL.

Healing takes time. With help from good friends it is possible when you really want to. :loveya:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

142. My dear RetroLounge....

I must tell you that your prose is so very moving.....poetry in prose form.

And no, you are no fool.....but a romantic man whose capacity for love knows no bounds. Would that we all could have that ability!

The beauty and love that you give us will (and does) reflect back at you.

It always will...

We should never regret love....no matter where it takes us, or how it makes us feel. Even the moments when we're down are worth it.

Pain for me means that I'm alive. If I were dead, then there would be no pain, and I'm never going to be ready for that.

I thank you for your very thoughtful contribution to my thread today...

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

144. ...

:hug:

RL

[happyasaclam]

145. It is certainly better to have loved and lost

than never to have loved at all.

I recently broke up with someone who I cared about, deeply cared about, and still care about more than any other person in the world.
It hurts, it hurts far more than anything else I have ever experienced. You feel lost, alone, swimming in a sea of grief and agony, with no sight of the shore.

But, for all of that, would I change anything?
I would change the ending, but otherwise, I wouldn't change anything, not even for a second.

To love someone is the most vulnerable, touching experience a person can have, it makes up a large part of who we are. I'm a far better person for having experienced it, and for having known them. Even if it hurts like hell.

I imagine, never having loved would be a very hollow feeling.....

[CaliforniaPeggy]

149. My dear happyasaclam......

My complete sympathies for your recent loss.....

I have loved and lost too, and it does hurt enormously.

You will recover, and go on...remember that your loved one will always be part of you!

Take what good there is about what you had, and remember that.....

:hug:

[happyasaclam]

162. Thankyou for those beautiful words

[CaliforniaPeggy]

163. It is always my pleasure to help wherever and whenever I can......

Just trying to live up to my sig line.....

I'm so glad I could help you today!

:hug:

[Jamastiene]

146. I agree with you CP.

It is definitely worth the pain to have known love rather than to go through life having never known it. Love is truly worth experiencing.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

150. My dear Jamastiene......

Thanks for coming by today......

Love enables us to become greater people....it challenges us to be better!

:hug:

[Redstone]

147. Nah. Better to have done without, and save the aggro.

Redstone

[CaliforniaPeggy]

151. My dear Redstone!

Sure......roflmao!

You are so silly, so crazy.....and I know you do not mean this!

:loveya: :hug:

[Redstone]

157. Well, there is the fact that you might miss out on some nookie if you

followed my recommendation...

Otherwise, yes, I think I'll stick with the original assertion. I may be one of The Last Of The Red-Hot Romantics, but I'm no fool.

Except an old one.

Redstone

[CaliforniaPeggy]

158. Are you feeling OK, my dear Redstone?

This does NOT sound like you at all! Now you've got me worried.....

And you are no fool, not even an old one.....

You have a very romantic soul.....I know, because I have seen it....

MrsR is a very lucky woman, IMHO...

:hug:

[Redstone]

174. I'm fine, as long as I don's sleep...see my reply to your message in

my thread from last night.

I'm just tired.

Redstone

[CaliforniaPeggy]

175. ................

:hug:

[REDKING]

148. You are flying with this post...Hiya Darlin.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

152. Hi, Rory!

I was very surprised to see it back on page one.....

I thought it was done!

Not that I mind, though.....

Good to see you!

:hug:

[REDKING]

156. I was'nt...

Say the magic word,everybody knows it,Whether they admit to it or not.

[bertha katzenengel]

153. Yes.

BTW I did get your VM. Thank you. I got it after I returned home - very strange. That's happened before. I don't know why. :hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

154. My dear bertha!

Well, I'm glad you got it...eventually! That was weird, huh? Sometime I do want to talk....At your convenience, of course.....

Thanks for coming by this thread of mine today.....

:hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

155. We'll toowok, we'll toowok... maybe have a koowoffe.

;) :hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

159. ................

:hug: ;)

Indeed we will....

[RevCheesehead]

160. I dunno.

I think I'm throwing out the white flag, and giving up.

I've loved, but not been loved in return. I begin to realize that it's just not in the cards for me.

But I'll tell ya this much: to never have been loved really, really hurts.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

161. My dear Rev......

You are way too young to have given up!

I would not say this if I did not truly mean it, and you know it.

You have so many gifts to give some lucky man......

And I am being perfectly serious here.....

Please......

:loveya: :hug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

164. How long after having lost it are we talking about?

It's easy to be nostalgic about lost love and recall the goodness of it years down the road.

Now if you're talking about 2 months after you found out that your "one and only" had 3 other "one and onlys" on the side. Well, then I'd have to opt for never at all. :P

[CaliforniaPeggy]

165. Well, my dear Lone_Star_Dem......

I didn't really have any time table in mind when I started this thread...

I realize that you're suffering a great deal right now.....of course!

But ultimately I believe you'll find that the memories of your love, though they are lessened by the revelations that now hurt, will sustain you far more than you suspect....

That is my experience, however.......

I do hope that your sorrow is vanquished from your life very soon.....

:hug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

166. Oh, that was ages ago now

I'm all better now. :)

I do thank for your kind words, however. :hug:

I was just pointing out how feelings can be relative for those who may still be in stage one. :)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

167. Ah, how well I understand! Of course, you are correct...

And I'm glad you're over it now....:pals:

[RFKHumphreyObama]

168. I don’t know Peggy

I have never experienced true love in the context of being in a relationship or having someone love me other than my family (and by that I mean my family related to me by birth). It is something that I would greatly like to experience because especially now, during one of the lowest points in my life, it would be wonderful to have someone whom I could love and share my innermost thoughts. It feels so empty and I feel so alone without a partner or a soulmate (especially when everyone in my family is married)

But I don't hold out hope of finding true love because I don't know who in their right mind would want to love me

[CaliforniaPeggy]

170. My dear socialdemocrat........

My heart goes out to you today.....

You sound so very lonely, and that is just not right.....

You know that if you don't love yourself, and respect who you are, that this can negatively impact your chances of finding someone else to love you too?

It's true........

Now, I'm fishing in the dark here, since I don't know your particular circumstances, but....

Perhaps you might consider exploring just why it is that you feel this way about yourself....

A good counselor can be of inestimable help, my dear......

:hug:

Forgive me if I've overstepped my bounds....

[tjwash]

169. Well, coming from a guy that's on his third marriage...

...I say yes, if you are lucky enough to find that "soul-mate" throw your entire being into it. And if it ends up you go your separate ways, so be it. You can do so with no doubts and no reservations that you absolutely did all you could to make it work.

I have found that every time you fall in love, I have found for me personally, that it is completely different feeling for each one. That's what sort of messed up my second marriage, was not realizing, or understanding that.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

171. My dear tjwash!

Thank you for not giving up! On marriage, and most importantly, on yourself!

I agree.....I believe if you don't understand why the earlier marriage didn't work, then you won't have the proper insight to keep this one going...

Those who don't learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them...

I don't recall who said this, but it is so true!

I hope that the third time is indeed the charm for you, and your wife...

:hug:

[mikeytherat]

172. If your love is lost, it's probably under the sofa cushions.

Everything ends up there!

mikey_the_rat

[CaliforniaPeggy]

173. AHA! So that's where it went!

Thank you for the note of levity on this rainy Friday, my dear mikey_the_rat!

:rofl:

[REDKING]

176. Hiya Darlin..told ya?