Do you think the phrase "under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

[truthspeaker]

The Pledge was endorsed by Congress in 1942. They added "under God" sometime around 1956. Should it stay in there, or should we go back to the original, in your opinion?

[Archae]

1. Which idiots...

Voted yes?

[stopthegop]

4. apperently DU members that disagree with you n/t

[everythingsxen]

21. This idiot.

I think it should remain in, because thats how the pledge was written.

It's essentially just a meaningless phrase.

We are in fact one nation, under God. Whether that God is Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Zeus or totally non-exitant is irrelevant.

Just my opinion. Its sort of an homage to those who've gone before us.

It's just one of those little traditional things handed down from one generation to the next.

[flamingyouth]

23. Actually, it wasn't how the pledge was written

The pledge was written at the turn of the 20th century, and "under God" was added in the '50s during the anti-godless-communist scare.

[Archae]

24. Oh REALLY?

1. The "under God" was added in 1954 to show 'dem Godless commies."

2. It is *NOT* a "meaningless phrase."

It states flat out that our country is under a specific deity.

Take the damn thing out, and have it back as a statement of REAL PATRIOTISM, not some coercive "Be patrotic or else" or "Worship the deity WE want you to" bullshit.

[arwalden]

33. Thank You!!!

You said it just the way that I would have. (Almost.)

-- Allen

[BigDaddyLove]

57. I must have missed something somewhere......................

which specific deity does the phrase tells us we are under? The vast, vast majority of people in the this country believe in one sort of Higher Power (GOD) or another, and as such it makes sense that the pledge makes mention of such a Power.

Just as you don't want other people telling you that there is a GOD, most everyone else dosn't want you telling them there isn't.

[truthspeaker]

59. telling you there isn't would be

"one nation under no God"

Leaving it out makes it work for everyone. Even if the vast majority of US citizens believe in a higher power, the First Amendment applies to ALL of us, not just the vast majority.

[burrowowl]

38. No it was not!

It was written by a Socialist Black minister who didn't put it in. Google Pledge of Allegeance.
It was put in in1954 under McCarthy and on the urging of the RC Knights of Columbus to 'fight Godless communism'.
I remember we had to relearn it to stick in under God when I was in 3nd grade. Only Nazi Germany had a similar deal with Gott mit uns on their soldiers belt buckles.
And in God we trust on money is blasphemous!

[Ediacara]

39. The pledge was not written that way,

It was written this way:

I pledge allegience to my flag,
And to the republic for which it stands;
One nation, indivisible,
With liberty, justice, and equality for all.

"Equality" was removed before publication, "my flag" was replaced with "the flag of the United States of America" early on, and "under God" was added in the 1950s.

[BigDaddyLove]

54. I am called an idiot for disagreeing with Rush Limbaugh..........

and then for disagreeing with you.

It doesn't get any better than that.

:eyes:

[truthspeaker]

55. while I disagree with those people, I wouldn't call them idiots

Can we keep this civil?

[Kamika]

58. You know you shouldn't call ppl that don't agree with you, idiots

I think it's good to have under God in the pledge.. it doesn't say jesus, moses or allah it says God.

You're free to interpret it however you like.. but don't call ppl that disagrees with you idiots if you don't have anything tyo back it up with.

[RandomKoolzip]

2. It's a non-issue.

I'm an atheist, but never was offended in school by pledging the Allegiance. Why? Beacuse I was ususally thinking of how much I didn't want to be in class, what was for lunch, staring at cute girls in the classroom, etc.

This kind of topic is a purposefully designed distracton, keeping us away from discussing the real important stuff. There's a third party manipulating the news somewhere, making sure topics like these are kept in the media, while behind the scenes while no one's watching, our rights are sysematically being gutted, and our elected servents are being bought off.

So the right blathers on about "oppresively PC" liberals and the left blathers on about the religious right. Just remember that the hands in the two puppets belong to the same puppeteer. The longer we squabble about non-issues like these, the longer corporate hegemony will continue to undermine the democratic and economic ideals this country was founded on.

[ibegurpard]

5. Yep. I agree with you

I think it's pretty innocuous. School prayer is one thing but the Pledge of Allegiance is, IMHO, not worth the resources being expended on it. I would vote "don't care."

[johnnie]

18. I was..

...going to say something similar. I would vote "who cares" also.

[blondeatlast]

27. Fork the P of A, let's worry about the Patriot Act instead!

Great point. That's what I meant about my son's "recitation" of it.

[CanuckAmok]

32. Sorry, Yanks...the Pledge is virtually meaningless.

It's basicaly a statement of conformity.

Timothy McVeigh said it every day in school. So did GWB.

We used to have to recite the Lord's Prayer and God Save the Queen (not the cool Sex Pistols version) every day in school, and yet I remain an Athiest and an anti-monarchist.

These little gestures don't mean diddly.

[RobinA]

63. Interesting...

I am an atheist too, and this is the ONE THING that always offended me in school. I didn't care about prayers at graduation, creches in the town square or any of the other stuff people always fight about. But the Pledge annoyed me from early elementary school on.

EDIT: Just thought of something else that bugged me. When the impeachment hearings were on TV there was always a prayer before each day got started during which the Chaplain asked for god's guidance. It always made me want to smash the TV.

[trof]

3. and I remember when it wasn't

How on earth did we all escape the lowest regions of hell all those years it wasn't?

[Fenris]

6. I don't fucking care

I just don't say "under God." Simple, effective. Doesn't require a court battle.

[terrya]

7. No. Religious children can say a silent prayer. No one should be coerced

Into saying the word "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Go back to the original.

[Blue-Jay]

8. Don't care.

It doesn't bother me anymore than swearing on a bible to tell the truth. I try not to get my panties in a wad over the little things.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. I think the oath should be completely secular...

The oath should be for all American citizens and they should be able to recite it as patriotically as the next without being forced to acknowledge a diety.

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. how about just getting rid of the pledge of allegiance?

Why should a kid have to swear allegiance to anything in a free country?

[Leftist78]

48. bravo!

that's exactly what I was going to post :yourock:

[MikeH]

11. Favor Going Back To Original

I do strongly favor going back to the original, but I can understand people feeling that maybe this isn't the most urgent or important issue (at least right now) that needs to be dealt with.

[Military Brat]

12. The Pledge was written by a socialist, inspired by a socialist

Francis Bellamy wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

Let's go back to the original Pledge. Forget the modifications, all of them. Remind the RW that the Pledge is based on advocates of socialism.

http://history.vineyard.net//pledge.htm

[trof]

16. beat me to it.

[BlueEyedSon]

13. "Under god" added in 1954, in response to Communism.....

A Brief Review of the Congressional Debates over the Addition of the Words "Under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance

The pledge of allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy. Bellamy penned the pledge in commemoration of Christopher Columbus' 400th anniversary celebration. It originally read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all." The pledge has maintained its wording with only slight changes over its 111 year history.

In 1942, seven months after Pearl Harbor, Congress officially included the Pledge of Allegiance in the United States Flag Code. 4 U.S.C. § 4 (2003). Twelve years later, largely in response to the atheist ideology of international Communism, Congress added the clause "under God" to the Pledge. Congress' approval of those two words -- "under God" -- did not reflect an endorsement of religion, or a preferential treatment of any religion above another. It was simply a patriotic and honorific statement about the underlying religious values of America that was likely drawn from President Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, in which he said, "This nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom."

More:
http://www.aclj.org/resources/patdisplays/pledge/pledgehistorycongress.asp


So it was just fine, without mention of god, for 60 years.

[PROUDNWLIBERAL]

15. Pledge

Why not pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States rather than to a piece of cloth!

[trof]

14. When you think about it

the whole damn thing is kind of silly.
Does any other civilized nation (I'm giving us the benefit of the doubt here) have such an oath? What about the first hundred and twenty or so years of our republic? Did everyone run around commiting treason as it suited them?

"Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. < * 'to' added in October, 1892. >"

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

[MissMillie]

17. Personally, I don't care if it's in there

as long as no one is ever required to pledge or held captive audience while other pledge.

But I voted "no".

[JailBush]

19. I don't think private citizens should be asked to pledge allegiance,

period. Doesn't the government trust us?

I do think we need an official loyalaty oath - one that should be recited by elected officials, especially the pResident and Congress. They should pledge their allegiance to the Constitution and the people, one nation, with the right to secede if government doesn't pull its head out of its ass, with liberty and justice for the majority - and a few crumbs for corporate whores.

[izzie]

20. It seems so many of my friends when to school be fore the under God

was put in and I see us a being OK I guess we do not need it.

[supernova]

22. Go back to the original

there was no controversy over the pledge before Eisenhower put those two little words in. Take them out.

[blondeatlast]

25. They were reciting the pledge today as my 6 yr old

got out of the care (obviously a bit late). He immediately started mumbling it like a dutiful automoton.

I wouldn't mind pledging allegiance "to the Republic for which it stands" but pledging to the flag annoys me.

Dump it--spend the 3 minutes teaching the kids about what freedom and justice REALLY mean, and what it takes to protect it.

[Loonman]

26. No, but I always mouthed it in school, anyway

It was really weird.

The class would get to that part, thee would be a pause, and you could hear that only 1/3 of the class said it.

[Blue_Chill]

28. I don't care I just don't want it to become a 'Christian = Bad' issue

Change it.
Trash it.
Keep it.

I don't care.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. I didn't vote because I don't care. It is a non issue

I stopped saying the pledge in 7th grade because of Kent State. I was called a commie by my teacher. I didn't care then either. I think saying a pledge to a symbol is kind of weird anyway.

[7th_Sephiroth]

30. its a big issue

i never recited the pledge and got punished for it the word god is a verry offensive word to me, i don care if that god is Yahweh, allah, buddah, shenlong or whatever its still offensive

[Cheswick2.0]

52. The word God offends you?

It's just a word.

[truthspeaker]

61. the word "God" does not offend me

But the government offends me when it requires an American citizen to acknowledge a deity he or she might not believe in. "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or preventing the free exercise thereof" and all that.

[IronLionZion]

31. If you don't like it then don't say it

[jukes]

34. pledge

As it stands it is insulting, theocratic, and unconstitutional. As such, it is neither a small matter nor a waste of effort. These puritans will wiggle into any crack and spread it; their infestation must be stopped!

edit=spelling.

[NightTrain]

35. I take offense at all the religious references the government...

...routinely shoves down our throats. Putting "in god we trust" on money, for example. And is it really necessary to conduct a morning prayer before Congress begins its work each day?

But what I find particularly irksome is those whiny right-wing religious types who continue to claim that America's Christians are "persecuted." Guess that's why churches are tax exempt, and why
I can't drive a mile without passing several churches--because those poor Christians are so severely persecuted.

And maybe the next time I fart, grasshoppers will shoot out of my ass!

[blondeatlast]

42. As a Christian, I agree 100%.

There is only one place in the US I know of where Christians are routinely "persecuted"--DU. The only persecution I feel is from Falwell, Robertson, etc, who would shout long and hard that I'm a heathen.

[NightTrain]

43. I only hope I'm not one of the DUers who makes you feel persecuted!

My attitude toward Christians is, "You don't burn me at the stake, and I won't throw you to the lions." :hi:

[Blue-Jay]

47. Aw stop howlin' or I'll really start persecutin' ya.

Maybe I'll even throw you the alley cats. I'm not allowed to keep lions anymore.

;)

[MaryBear]

36. As one who learned it without "under God,"

and then had to learn it with it, I'll be happy to drop the phrase. Although I lean toward theism, the words in the pledge are an add-on, and not needed.

[AlFrankenFan]

37. Nope

and I never say it anyway. Instead, I take a breath. That's the second thing I need to write to my congressman about.

[latebloomer]

40. The whole idea of a pledge to a flag

deeply offends me, and I resent that my children have to say it every day. Particularly with "under God" in it.

[Endangered Specie]

41. I have a better idea...

Get rid of the pledge altogether! CHildren dont understand the true meaning of allegience and pledge.

It reminds me too much of conformity, BOW BEFORE THE FLAG.

Ya know, back before Nazi Germany, children saluted the flag during the pledge in a similiar way the Nazi's saluted. They had to change that.

[Scott Lee]

44. They need to yank that off our money, and above the speakers

chair in the House, too. Ike's little cold war slap at Russia's atheism is an old issue, no longer relevent.

[absyntheNsugar]

45. I say no but I think this is a non-issue

Used by the Repubs to divide Dems and further distance us from Evangelicals.

I say take up real issues such as economic justice, fighting racism and keeping our schools before fighting this issue.

[Piperay]

46. I voted yes because

I frankly could care less either way. I won't pledge allegiance regardless, it's a moot point to me. :shrug:

[baldguy]

49. "Under God" no

UNDER DOG YES!

[scottcsmith]

50. We survived 62 years without it

I think it should be restored to what it originally said:

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[Dr Fate]

51. Other: Dont Care

Most people dont mean a damn word of it anyway...

[NoPasaran]

53. I never cared for pledging allegiance

to a symbol in the first place. And can we puh-LEEZE leave folks' Invisible Friends out of the equation.

And while we're at what's with that slogan on all our money?

[truthspeaker]

56. FYI to those who are angry their children have to say the PoA

They DON'T have to say it. The Supreme Court ruled quite some time ago that school kids have a right to opt out of the pledge. Some schools may get on their case (illegally) but a note of permission from their parents should fix that.

My take: it offends me that it's in there (as does "In God We Trust" on currency, which I regularly cross out with a Sharpie), but I think Michael Newdow brought it up at the wrong time. I am willing to put up with small insults to my freedom while I fight the bigger ones. We have bigger fish to fry right now.

[KG]

60. why is there a pledge of allegience. anyway?

:shrug:

[Frangible]

62. Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

LAW: 1 a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules

Now it may seem that most people don't care about the bill of rights anymore. Hell, the second amendment is all but gone these days. Truly sad. I'll miss it. And people aren't even getting trials under Bushco. I'll miss that right too.

Anyway, this thing was endorsed by Congress. And it deals with religion.

Although termed differently, in the proper definition of law, it is a law. And it is respecting an establishment of religion.

I don't think it takes a very liberal interpretation of the first amendment to decide this goes against the bill of rights.

Not that anyone even cares about the bill of rights anymore, other than me. So I guess my opinion is worth about as much as the bill of rights, nothing. But that's my $0.02.