Ladies, can I share a story?

[Xipe Totec]

This morning I walked with a buddy to the ATM. When we got to the ATM, there was a woman already using it. It's mid morning but nobody else is around, just her and us guys walking toward the ATM booth. She saw us and I could see apprehension in her face, so I slowed my pace to keep some distance. My buddy was yakking away so he did not take notice. As he walks up to the door of the booth, she steps out, pushing the door open to block his path and rushes to her car parked next to the booth. My buddy steps into the booth while I'm still a few paces away, and the woman is already in her car, her door shut, stumbling for her keys. My buddy sees that she left her ATM card in the machine. He grabs it and rushes out to her car, taps on the window, and waves the card so she can see it. The woman is jumping out of her skin by now, seeing this guy appear out of the blue next to her car. After a second or so, she rolls the window down a crack, my buddy hands the card to her, the window closes, and off she goes. My buddy comes back to the ATM and goes about his business as if nothing happened.

Several things bothered me about this incident:

First, that we live in a world where the mere presence of men is enough to frighten a woman so much.

Second, that men take this a perfectly normal.

Third that, frankly speaking, this is reasonable behavior given the circumstances.

From time to time I find myself in situations, in parking lots especially, where I am the only male around and there is a female walking toward her car. I can sense the apprehension immediately, and I try to keep a respectful distance. Sometimes I have to walk a circle around her to avoid invading her perimeter.

This is so sad. Sometimes I wish I could just say. Do not fear me; I am not your enemy. I will keep my distance to prove I'm harmless. Go in peace, but please do not be frightened by me.

[SOteric]

1. I do understand the point you make, but

you never know which of the strangers you meet in the street or at the ATM may have been mugged, molested or seriously hurt in just such an episode.

Some people never get over the fear of having been assaulted in some manner.

[DS1]

8. I've known some combat-trained Marines who have been mugged

at the ATM. It can happen to anyone, and most people don't know what to do when it does happen.

Insert Kurosawa movie-screen grab here

[Left Is Write]

39. That was my thought too.

It sounds like this woman was perhaps a victim of a crime previously.

[miss_american_pie]

2. That must be hurtful to be treated suspiciously all the time

But in her defense, she could be an assault survivor, in which case all bets are off, IMHO.

It is sad.

[Xipe Totec]

3. She has every right to be afraid

That's what is so sad.

I do not blame her, I understand her. I just regret that we have created a world in which such fear is necessary; even essential for survival.

[miss_american_pie]

5. I think the world was always that way

Maybe it's more noticeable in a society where women don't go around covered head to toe and chaperoned by male family members, but our instincts are all we have to even out the physical disparities.

[lukasahero]

37. "She has every right"

More importantly, if she were not afraid, if she were not cautious, and something *did* happen to her, how many would be saying she should not have put herself in such a dangerous situation.

Sorry to the OP, but women live in fear of men for a reason. Deal with it. We have to.

[Xipe Totec]

38. I agree with you

Please do not misunderstand; I do not feel sorry for myself. I do not feel slighted in the least. I feel sorry for that woman who must live in such fear.

Does she have cause to fear? Yes she does. Should she let her guard down? Not at all.

I am trying to deal with it as best I can. Collective guilt is a difficult thing to handle, but handle it we must. As men, our honor has been stained by those who have caused such horror. As guardians, we have failed you.

We are not just our brother's keeper, but our sister's as well.

[lukasahero]

43. Makes sense

Sorry I jumped on you - some of the other posts here led me to view your post as a "woah is me, I'm unfairly accused" kind of thing. Re-reading it, I can see that it was not.

As far as being guardians - we are all each others'.

Women don't necessarily need your guardianship. What we need is guys like you standing up to the men who would do us harm. We don't need your protection, we need men to stop hurting us. Do you see the difference? (One leads to the way of the burqa, the other to a society free from fear.)

[Xipe Totec]

44. Yes, Again I agree

It is a fine line we must walk between looking after each other as human beings, and looking at one another as property to protect.

Thank you for being my guardian.

- Peace

:dem:

[scordem]

48. A great way to assuage your collective guilt:

How many other men have you spoken to about violence against women? How many locker room stories of 'to the moon, Alice' have you protested in front of the other guys--just the guys? How many friends have you been out with that, WHEN YOU WERE ALONE WITH THEM, have you chided for their shoving their girlfriends, or calling them a bitch, or other such behavior?

My sis and I have talked about this a lot and she's told me that every single class in which the topic of male-female violence came up there was ALWAYS some guy who stood up and said 'yeah, well what about women hitting men who...yadda, yadda, yadda...' whereupon the room would collectively groan and the topic was quickly dropped and NEVER discussed? (And my sis is a social worker!) Has this happened to you--and why does a guy never get up and tell the guy to hush--it's always a woman who protests the non-conversation about it?

Relational violence should be broken into at least 3 subgroups: violence against men, mutual combat, and violence against women. They DO NOT all stem from the same causes, and are NOT done for the same reasons, they do NOT result in the same thing--and they should NOT be nominalized into nothing by a fogging of the issue with claims of 'she hit me first!' (therefore she deserves to have her collarbone broken, or eye gouged out, or to be beaten until she can't stand up for a week by someone 80 pounds heavier than she is and head-and-shoulders taller...)

The greatest failure of the feminist movement is that they did not make nearly the headway with this issue that they could have--and it could've REALLY made a difference in women's lives.

[Xipe Totec]

53. Excellent advice

One point that has been missed in this discussion is that more women are battered or raped by acquaintances than by strangers on the street. Domestic violence is a bigger problem than street violence.

I do not tolerate violence against women (See post 42), but I can always do more. Thanks for reminding me.

- Peace

:dem:

[scordem]

54. You're a good man.

If YOU have any sisters, they're lucky gals!

[knowbody0]

17. i am a survivor and that's my bet as well

it is sad, so so sad. i never use atm's unless the bank is open and there are other customers.

[L A Woman]

4. Fear is a gift

We don't have the brute strength of men and we are often viewed as prey, so the fear and apprehension is a natural defense mechanism. The biggest danger to women is when we ignore those fears. Most of us don't fear every man we see, but we are extra cautious at certain times of day, near ATMs, etc. Don't take it personally. Keeping a respectful distance is a good thing.

[Xipe Totec]

6. You are right

Yet, some might consider such attitudes chivalric, and out of step with with full equality between the sexes. This is where I feel men are in a bind. Do we treat women as "the weaker sex" and risk being labeled chauvinists, or do we assert equality of the sexes and pretend that women are physically equal to men and disregard these fears.

For me, personally, I've chosen chivalry.

[Nicole]

12. You are kind

to consider the woman's feelings, instead of being offended by them.

I was raised in a time & place where chivalry was a good thing. Times have changed but chivalry is still appreciated by some of us.

[Ravenseye]

65. The sexes aren't equal

Women are superior.

That said, we men need to just mind our P's and Q's. We need to open doors for women not because they're inferior and weak, but because it is one of the things that men do. Like opening tightly wound jars or when walking with a woman to always take the street side. I give anyone space at the ATM. I make it obvious i'm waiting and in line, but I don't crowd them. Men and women. It's just a general kindness. We need more of that stuff in today's society, not less. Random acts of kindness used to be just called good manners.

[lukasahero]

69. "do we assert equality of the sexes and pretend"

This just struck me the wrong way so pardon me if I have this wrong but...

"Pretending" to believe something does no one any favors. "Most" women are not as physically strong as "most" men, however, that does not mean all women want or need a man's physical help. The correct answer for a man who finds himself in a situation where he desires to be "chivalrous" is to ask.

Women are not incapable just because they're not as big as you are. This gets back to my argument upthread - women don't need your protection, they need you to stand up to men who harm them. Likewise, they don't need you to do things for them, they need your respect.

Please don't 'pretend' that I am your equal. KNOW I am. If you respect me, you will ask me whether or not I need your help and unquestioningly trust my answer.

[Xipe Totec]

70. That's a lot of information to convey through body language

There is no damsel in distress in this story, just a frightened woman and two full grown men approaching her. There is no opportunity for questions, just a split second to decide whether to acknowledge her fear and step back, or 'pretend' she has no reason to fear and invade her space.

Yes some women are stronger than some men, but not this particular woman relative to these particular men. It was an unequal situation and I cannot 'pretend' otherwise.

The chivalrous thing to do in this situation was not to ask, but to yield without asking.

I do believe in the equality of the sexes at an abstract level. That is, men as a group are better or worse than women as a group at certain things, but overall the differences even out.

When it comes to interpersonal skills, I'm afraid that men are generally at a disadvantage.

Proof:

See how easily I managed to ruffle your feathers without even trying. Q.E.D.

Ergo, by that metric we are not equals; women are better.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

31. I don't feel any fear towards men.

However, I've been studying the martial arts for years and I teach women's self-defense. I'm also usually armed with a knife that I'm also trained in using. Therefore, I don't worry about using the ATM or walking the streets. I'm confident in myself which imore than half the battle. Combine that with the fact that I am prepared to use deadly force, if necessary, I don't worry about strangers on the street.

[DS1]

7. Was she driving an enormous SUV?

[Xipe Totec]

9. Ha! Ha! No.

She was driving a very sensible mid-size car. Might have been a Hyundai, but I'm not sure.

[scordem]

55. What on earth difference does THAT make?

You think women driving SUV's deserve to be afraid at ATM's?

DOES MRS. KERRY? SHE DRIVES ONE TOO, YOU KNOW--and she no more deserves to feel afraid when out in the world, because of male violence towards women, than any other woman does!

*Joke* about something else.

[salin]

10. First, don't internalize this - it isn't about you or your friend, per se.

But do know that the statistics for a woman being the victim of a rape or sexual assualt is about 1 in 3 for women between the ages of 15 and 35. Internalize that number for a moment.

Most women who have not been a victim do not behave the way you describe ... but many who have been a victim, from time to time experiance post-traumatic-stress syndrdom - which means that something on a very instinctual level raises a warning - often not having anything to do with real danger - but for the person suffering - it is hard to distinguish what is just something has triggered (subconsceinecely) memories of the oritnal event, vs what is real danger. When that alert system flits through the mind/body - the person is on "hyper awareness" and caution (and thus takes extreme caution) until the moment passes.

I experienced this for years, and each time it kicked in - I thought it was just my instincts kicking in, and that I was really in danger. It wasn't it til years after I was raped, that I learned that this was a normal phenomenan - and that it didn't mean that I was *really* in danger (though the hyper alert of all of my senses made me think that I was) - but that something happened to trigger memories - and now that I knew the end result of the first situation - that I mentally had transferred the 'end result' (being attacked) into the current situation... but that it had little to do with the real situation at hand. For example, it might be that the person invaded my "personal space" in a way that slightly reminded my subconscioence of the original event - and that subconscience response = "not this time...." And thus the hyper alert-for-potential-danger gets signalled.

This happened for me - in the most random situations - for years (not frequesntly...maybe once every couple of times every couple of years)... until I understoond and could work through the source. From your description, it sounds like this woman went into this mode. Go back to thte first statistic that I referred to: there is a great percentage of the female population that is prone to such a response - due to having been a victim ... for them, at the moment, if feels like survival instincts. Don't take it personally.

That said, yes it is a sad commentary that so many women have already been the victim of sexual assualt and rape - and as such are prone to physically reacting in fear/danger mode, even when no danger is present. However the problem will not change by assurances (it is an instinctive, and somewhat irrational survival mode for those who have been a victim of sexual assulat). It isn't consience. It won't change until there are far fewer victims of sexual assualt - who react out of a coping mechanism that kicks in, due to that assualt.

[LostinVA]

11. And, to take that 1 in 3 number further:

Rape is very underreported.

I do what that woman did. Probably about every female I know from teenagers to elderly ladies do that. Honestly? I HATE having to think and live like this. I'd like to get off work, go trail running, and not think about it. But, I don't want to be raped and murdered, so I go to the gym or run along a well-travelled road. When my SO goes to a conference, I don't want to check every window and door five times,a nd still lock my bedroom door while I sleep. I don't want to worry about the dude walking up to the ATM with his friend, but I have to. Or the guy watching em while I'm walking to my car in the parking garage. Maybe he's a nice guy, maybe he's a rapist. I hate it. All women hate it. But, we infuriately have to live this way. It sucks.

Don't take it personally. It's not you or Men she's afraid of... it's that one particular Man who could be anyone... *sigh*

[salin]

13. Your last statement sums it up.

that one particular Man who could be anyone...

That is what I experienced - and how I reacted for years. Not on the surface (I didn't go around thinking that anyone could do this again = and the person who raped me, on the surface, seemed like a boyscout. Thus I was left with a sense of not knowing when I was in potential danger or not.

[LostinVA]

14. Exactly -- rapists often don't look like some slimeball dude

Gavin Debecker wrote "The Gift of Fear," and says women need to forget societal politeness and stereotypes and listen to their instincts -- they have it for a reason. Sometimes that fear doesn't kick in because he looks like a Boy SDCout... *sigh*

Sorry about your experience... seriously... cyber hugs.

[salin]

15. thanks,

:-)

[OhioBlue]

19. salin,

thank you for such an intelligent post - I understand the "instinctive" reaction. I'm sorry that you had to go what you went through, but it sounds like you know that you are not alone.
:hug:
I couldn't have explained it any better myself. There are times when I could be in a dark alley with a man approach me and I would simply smile, say hi, and walk past. There are other times, when something is triggered and I just feel threatened. It was very good advice to not take it personally - it is most often circumstances and a defensive mechanism that kicks in.

[salin]

22. Before understanding what that reaction was...

it was terrifying - in the sense that I really thought that my gut *knew* I was really in danger. When I finally began to dealth with what I had gone through, I learned about some of the very typical aftermath effects - and read about this one - it changed everything for me. It happens even less, and when it does I go to alert, but not hyper alert, and I know it will pass. Also helps to know others go through this.

Your example explains how random the reaction can be. Thanks.

I am so sorry that you had to weather an awful event that left you with the same reaction :hug:

[Vektor]

35. Sadder still...

The "one in three" statistic accounts for only the assaults that have actually been reported.

[Brigid]

16. Socialization

First of all, give yourself a little credit. You at least recognized this woman's feelings and understood why she was reacting that way. It is a sad commentary on today's society that parents feel obliged to raise their little girls to be wary all the time. I can remember that from an early age. Interestingly, though, now that I think about it, I cannot remember my younger brother actually being taught that violence against women is unacceptable. Somehow he knows, but not all men do. I don't know what it will take to become a society where women do not have to be afraid all the time, and men don't encounter unnecessary fear. maybe someday . . .

[Zookeeper]

18. I'm sure that felt awful to you, because you sound like...

a good guy.

I am always on-guard. My defense is awareness. If a situation seems threatening, I psychically and physically pull myself up and make myself very large, making it clear through eye contact and facial expression that I'm pissed at having to deal with this and would love to take it out on any guy who bothers me. Therefore, I wouldn't show fear in the situation you describe, especially once I got outside. But, I would be very uneasy about being in an ATM booth with two unknown men.

I can relate to your feelings, because I encounter something similar when I see children. I love kids, have three of my own, and always want to smile at and talk to kids, but know that I can't because it may be perceived as threatening. It also undermines parents "Don't talk to strangers" message.

I wish the world was a nicer place.

[Left Is Write]

66. I know just how this feels...

I love kids, have three of my own, and always want to smile at and talk to kids, but know that I can't because it may be perceived as threatening. It also undermines parents "Don't talk to strangers" message.

I love children too, and I wish I could talk to most of the children I see. My 6-year-old daughter is friendly and trusting to a fault, and though I've given her the "don't talk to strangers" lecture many times, it's hard for both of us.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. That was YOU?

Just kidding...

I'm sorry, Xipe Totec. That must have been humiliating for all involved.
She's probably kicking herself now for being so paranoid. And yet, if she lets her guard down, she'll prove a perfect victim for some jerk.

For you: :beer::hug::beer:

[Xipe Totec]

24. I know.

That's the sad part; knowing that it is so necessary.

With all the fears, risks and dangers, it's a miracle we're ever able to connect as human beings.

Thanks for the Guinness and hugs.

I love the anteater in your sig-line.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

28. When people like you take the time to consider

where the other person is coming from, instead of getting caught up in their own emotions; it sends a message to those who are self-absorbed. I love your compassion! :hug:

[wildhorses]

21. where I work the nurses who get off shift in the middle of the

night always have the hospital police accompany them to their cars, mind you I live in a fairly small town although the methadone clinic is 2 blocks away and the "projects", better known as Bedrock,(and you can guess how it got THAT name) are a mile down the road...

the parkinglot at the hospital is fairly well lit and there are cameras ALL over...




I wish we could all remember that we are human beings FIRST, never mind sex or race...cos in the end does that shit really matter?

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

23. I sympathize, as A guy, I hate how you can tell when people are afraid

of you, even if you are being polite, and just in their general proximity. Also, while I'm sure it's less often, I've had guys start looking skittish if I approach at midnight after a movie or something (Guess my leather coat and black beanie aren't too friendly apparel).

On another note, your buddy should feel lucky she didn't have any mace.

Sad times indeed :-(

[YouthInAsia]

25. Are you black? This is always happening to my black friends.

When we walk through parking lots together even when crossing streets through traffic, you can actually HEAR the automatic door lock being clicked. I think thats just so damn absurd. They now click their lock whenever a white personw walks by their car.

[Xipe Totec]

26. No, I'm Mr. average balding middle of the herd.

So race was not a factor in this case, just gender and number (two to one odds against, are not good, especially when the one is a woman).

But I have seen the racial angle as well, when I'm walking with black friends. Then it's not just women but men as well that get apprehensive and nervous.

[Cos]

33. Age, too

Teenagers get the same reaction, and small groups (especially of men) in their early 20s.

[lakemonster11]

29. Well, as a woman, let me say that

I'll click my doors locked no matter who's walking by my car, if I don't already have them locked. Especially at night.

I get very uncomfortable when I'm walking alone when I have to walk by a man, especially if there are two or more men. But it's worse when they're a different race than me---I'm afraid that if I cross the street to avoid them (which I would probably do automatically if they were white), then they'll think that I'm avoiding them because I'm racist. I've heard other women say the same.

It's just a bad situation all around.

[lakemonster11]

27. It's good that you saw her discomfort and stood back.

I think a lot of men don't understand the fear that comes with being female.

I was living in a house last year in a not-so-great part of the city with another girl and two guys. The other girl and I would always keep the door locked and bolted whether we were home or not. One of the guys we lived with was really snarky about it, saying that no one would break in if they saw people through the window. Of course what he couldn't be made to understand was that we were afraid that someone would break in because they saw us through the window.

He ended up unscrewing the dead-bolt off the door because he kept getting locked out when he came home after we had gone to bed (it was apparently too much trouble to walk around to the back door). My female housemate and I were not happy about that at all, but he ridiculed our fears and refused to put the lock back on.

There was also an incident that I remember when my mother and I were up on Mt. Rainier and had gotten out of the car to take a picture in the middle of nowhere. This guy in a pickup truck saw us, stopped, and walked straight toward us, cutting us off from our car. He was asking for directions or something, but I could see the panic in my mom's face and knew she was looking around for something to use as a weapon. Nothing happened, but if he had an inkling about what it's like to be female, he would have had the social sense not to scare us like that.

So thanks for your sensitivity to her fears. I wish every guy were as understanding.

[madeline_con]

30. Part of being female...

is the sad realization that half of the population may do you harm if you are out and about alone.

There is always apprehension. One never knows when one's safety wil be threatened. :(

It's terrible that the lady was so scared, she left the card in the ATM.

I saw a scene in traffic the other day. A white lady, sitting at the red light. A black man walking down the street. White lady pushes button to close window on passenger side as man walks by. It's not entirely about gender, IMO.

[Skittles]

32. men truly have no idea the fear women live with daily

they really don't

[Vektor]

34. So sad, and so true...

I have never been attacked, but I cringe with fear when I am by myself and I encounter men anywhere, nonetheless. I have definitely been harassed and catcalled and what not, and that is more than enough to make me afraid, constantly.

Yeah, the world is a pretty scary place.

[pokerfan]

36. All men are potential rapists

Isn't that what they are teaching on campus these days?

Few years ago, following a football game, my buddy and I realized my battery was dead. I had the cables, I just needed a jump. There was a woman in a car in the parking lot who I approached holding the cables. She cracked her window about 1 millimeter as I explained that she wouldn't even have to unlock her doors, just pop her hood (OK, that sounds disgusting) so we could get a jump (well that sounds bad too). Her face was completely drained of all color and she was shaking so badly she could barely shake her head "no." Then she floored it out of there spraying gravel everywhere.

Another time I was on foot in the city and cutting through a parking lot and I heard this woman call out to me. She was about 200 feet away and out of my way as I was on a beeline for some coffee (it was about ten in the morning) but it sounded like she was lost or in trouble. So I make a right turn and head towards her calling out, asking her if she needed help. She kept calling to me but as I got closer, she kept lowering her voice so I was never able to understand a single word she said. When I was about twenty feet away, I stopped and asked her if she needed help. She then pulls a fucking stun gun from her purse, waves it at me while screaming, "Stay away from me!" Only intelligible thing she had said to me. So I split, wondering to this day what the fuck was her problem.

[Misunderestimator]

49. What a clever ruse it would be to pretend to need a jump.

Then get under the hood and disable the car... then break the window and rape the woman. I wouldn't have give you a jump either... especially TWO men. Only if there were other people around or if I was not alone and it was not dark would I consider offering to help you. Have you considered that she might have been assaulted before? Are you insinuating that her reaction pissed you off or something?

The second story is just weird.

[pokerfan]

57. I'm only pissed off that women get raped

And it made me feel like some kind of criminal.

[LostinVA]

61. All men are potential rapists

No, not every man has the potential to be a rapist, but to women, every man is a potential rapist. Especially strangers. We don't know if you're the nicest guy in the world, or Ted Bundy. I wouldn't have helped you with your car either. Two guys, wanting access under the hood? No way. Like another poster said: that's a great rude. Ted Bundy, to use him as an example again, wore a fake leg cast to appear disabled, and asked women to help him. If I don't know you, I CANNOT trust you. That is, unfortunately, the world we live in. I hate it. But I have no desire to become a statistic, and to have my parents bury an empty casket.

And, btw, I hope to hell they are teaching that on campuses, because college women are articulately susceptible to be being raped. I know I plan to make sure my niece knows that when she goes away to college,

[cassiepriam]

40. If a man came running to my car, hitting the window, I'd be scared

too.

[BlueIris]

41. Respectfully, this is a speech you should make to the men in your life.

It always saddens me when those who've noticed what a violent, misogynist world we live in want to start lecturing women about how upset they are that women are afraid and angry, instead of trying to change the attitudes of those who are creating the misogyny--either through their prejudice, or their complacence.

[Xipe Totec]

42. Respectfully, I do

I started by lecturing my buddy about his lack of sensitivity. I told him he could have been maced by scaring her that way.

My purpose in posting is not to lecture my sisters, but to tell them that I get it. I understand your position. I understand your fears. And I am sorry that you have to live with such horror.

I do not tolerate violence toward women, I do not condone it. I do not forgive it, and I will not allow it to happen in my presence.

My father's rule was this: Never strike a woman, not even with rose petals. This is the rule I've set for my children as well. They can quote it by heart.

[scordem]

45. I know it happens other places...

...however, the fact that this was at an ATM probably made it worse--as did being in a small, enclosed room with only one, easily-blocked entrance.

I believe the gals are following the ol' 'better safe than sorry' bit, and you can't blame them. My sis once explained to me that the thought of getting beaten, killed, or raped was always magnified by the thought that women have always been taught that they contribute to whatever happened. Thus, a woman has to be be careful to keep herself safe lest she blame HERSELF, as well suffer the attack (which will be, like as not, NOT be accorded any special notice or solution (unless it's particularly brutal.)

Imagine--violence against you doesn't get much notice unless it's especially gawdawful....walking to your car thinking that--KNOWING that...and knowing if, you can't defend yourself against one guy, you surely cannot against two--and two means double the awfulness--if it's going to be awful... sis says it CAN make you a little...frantic.

[lukasahero]

46. Welcome to DU

And thank you for listening to your sister. :hi:

There are several statements in your post that are particularly insightful. This one: "violence against you doesn't get much notice unless it's especially gawdawful" is actually chilling.

[scordem]

50. Thank you for the welcome.

And, yes, it IS chilling. I cannot imagine being a woman and--if she's taking good care of herself--HAVING to think about that EVERY time she leaves the house (and, many times, even when she she goes IN her house...)

[Wetzelbill]

47. I noticed that too

I don't really know what to say. I guess I'll have to think about the whole situation a little more. I think one thing is women can't afford to let their guard down. They need to be aware of their surroundings at all time, not necessarily fearful, but aware. That has to be somewhat scary, I would think. Even the most innocent looking guy could be a mugger or a rapist, who could overpower virtually any woman. That's a frightening situation.

[no name no slogan]

51. The funny thing is, violent crime is lower now than 20-30 years ago

Violent crime has been on a steady decline since the 1970s. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that by watching the media. The old addage of "if it bleeds, it leads" still holds true. We've raised two generations to be absolutely terrified of every single thing in this world-- some justified, but most unjustified.

I'm not blaming this woman for being nervous-- especially if she's survived an assault or robery. But the amount of paranoia and fear in this society is sickening, and the media only makes it worse.

[supernova]

52. You're a good man, Xipe Totec

It is sad we have to live in such a world. But I appreciate you being so considerate of this woman who obviously has had past trauma.

I can understand her. Generally I don't have a problem during the day. And, unless I'm with friends, I don't go out at night or run errands, either. But I do get fearful sometimes simply because I am very petite.

[Spike from MN]

56. Kudos to you Xipe

for your sensitivity. I wish there were more people out there like you.

I'll share an observation from my own personal experience. Being a punk rocker, I sported a Mohawk for a number of years. Now, this was quite a few years back so you can rest assured that I got yelled at and took a lot of crap pretty much everywhere I went. No big deal. I liked my 'hawk and was willing to put up with the crap (and give it back on occasion). I saw it as a freedom issue and I was free to wear my hair however I wanted. If someone else didn't like it, too bad.

Years later, I changed back to a "normal" haircut (damn those 'hawks are high-maintenance!) and the first thing I noticed was that I could no longer walk down the same streets as before without having to worry about my personal safety. Holy crap! I had had the 'hawk for so long that I had kind of taken for granted the level of "protection" it had afforded me. When I had the 'hawk, people were afraid of me and would sometimes cross the street to avoid me. I had the funny feeling that most thought I was packing a weapon (which I wasn't) but hey, as long as they avoided me and didn't cause me any trouble, that was fine with me. But with a "normal" haircut, I no longer had the safety buffer the 'hawk had provided. It was a huge shock to realize that I suddenly had to watch out for my safety everywhere I went. The 'hawk had provided that "service" for me for so many years that I didn't fully appreciate it until I got rid of it. Whoa! This is how the rest of the people live? Good gawd, this really sucks.

So, as a person that has experienced both sides of the issue, let me just say that life is a helluva lot easier all around when you don't have to fear for your personal safety every time you're out and about. Those that don't have to fear for their safety enjoy level of freedom that a lot of others will never know. The woman you ran into at the ATM machine will probably never really know what it's like to be truly free. I feel bad for her but she's doing what she has to do to protect herself and I don't blame her at all for that. Better safe than sorry but it still sucks that any of us have to live like that. Damn, I miss my 'hawk. ;)

[Xipe Totec]

58. Thanks! I'll share your story with my youngest,

who still wears an 8" 'hawk, and for the same reasons. I know exactly what you mean about the safety zone it creates too.

:thumbsup:

[Spike from MN]

62. Cool!

Nice to know your kid has a 'hawk! I never measured mine but I think the tallest I ever had it was around 18" or so. Good thing my Camaro had T-tops. ;)

I should add that the way the woman behaved at the ATM towards you is in no way a reflection on you as a person. Like others have said, she probably acted that way due to a previous incident so please don't take her actions personally. Unfortunately, probably because of what some bastard did to her, she now views all strangers as potential threats. That's just what she has to do to protect herself. It's a general reaction to a situation in which a woman senses a potential threat so please don't take it personally. The same goes for others here that have posted about similar incidences. Unfortunately, women have no way of knowing which strangers are potential threats and which ones are nice guys so everyone gets lumped into the same category. It's a bad deal for the nice guys out there but please don't blame yourselves. The bastard that did this to her is the one that deserves the blame. Not you and not the woman.

[slide to the left]

59. being afraid is a response to not knowing what to do

I can understand being afraid, I was caught off guard one night while walking outside by myself late one night (the 2 blocks from my apt to a friend's house). A car stopped and opened it's door and 2 men were inside. I screamed and they shut the door and drove off. I was not paying attention and didn't see the car until it stopped. The might have been asking for directions, but I have no clue.

I learned early on, (probally from Oprah) that the best thing to do is to look the person in the eye. If they know that you are aware of the situation, they are less likely to mug you, even if that was their intention.

There are a few reasons for this, 1) you can identify them if you look them in the face, 2) it shows that you are not afraid, 3) it shows that you are paying attention to your surroundings. Paying attention is key to not getting hurt.

[Shine]

60. Sadly, she may have been raped or attacked by a man in the past

in a similar type of situation, accounting for her very reasonable behavior towards you.

You're right, it IS sad and disturbing to consider the violence that men are capable of against women...for that matter, ANY violence humanity is capable of, saddens me.

That's why is so important for those of you who DO respect women to continue modeling it to your male brothers and to all your children, male and female, alike. I believe that energy, that consciousness, makes a HUGE difference in the world.

Yes, it's true, we cannot control others' reactions or emotional responses, but we can try to be as mindful of OUR OWN as possible.

"Go in Peace" can continue to be your intention in the world by the way you let your life speak and the mindful, heartful actions you take.

:hi:

[LanternWaste]

63. Just a thought...

Yeah, I *do* take it as normal behaviour because there are so many violent individuals in our society. As much as it sucks, I'm actually surprised when I see a female alone w/o a look of nervousness on her face, regardless of where she is. But...

Some years back, I read a pretty good book about body language. It gave me some insight into determining if a young lady is aprehensive and nervous or just doing her thing. If she's nervous, I usually go out of my way to get out of her way. Better still, it gave me insight into how I could appear as a non-threatening presence.

Just a thought...

[realisticphish]

64. I get that a lot

I'm a big guy, with a full beard.

Often, walking back from the campus gym at night, I'll end up behind a woman. As soon as I realize that, I back off 25-30 yards. For two reasons: 1.) I don't want to cause her undue stress and 2.) I really don't want to get maced just because I was going to the same dorm as she was.

[AngryAmish]

67. I'm not a big guy and I do the same thing

I'm a fast walker and I come up behind folks. It is no fun scaring someone so I cross the street when walking late at night.

[realisticphish]

68. i'll

whistle, or cough, or something of that sort. Let's them know you're there, and that you aren't trying to sneak up on them.

[Xipe Totec]

71. That's good advice

That's the way I feel as well. The more physically unequal the situation is, the greater the distance I keep. For her safety, and for mine.

:thumbsup: