I'd have more respect for American Idol if they composed their own music

[LynneSin]

Seriously, if they made a show similiar to American Idol where not only do they have to sing but they have to compose their own music, I'd actually be on board with watching it. Hell, MTV's "Making the Band" (in which P Diddy tries to create a group) had their groups coming up with original material and they're trying to make a pop band.

Being able to carry a tune and sing a song already made famous by someone else is pretty easy stuff. Why not see if we could find the next great singer/songwriter who actually has the skills to make it out in the industry!

[fortyfeetunder]

1. True, truly unidimensional

I would have liked to see more original compositions but the problem is how many of the contestants are capable of writing their own tunes? And should this have been a prerequisite?

[LynneSin]

2. For this show - yes!!

I mean, the show would provide people who could help with writing music and working with the lyrics, but the bulk would come from the performer

[DS1]

3. I'll never have any respect for any of them

and think they all equally suck.

Notice that NONE of the winners have made anything but a lump of shit and unopened CDs for a career.

[bigwillq]

4. Hmmm...ever heard of Kelly Clarkson????

:shrug:

She's making a shit load of money. Grammys, American Music Awards, sold out shows......and she has the talent to back it up.


Don't hate on my Kelly! :mad: :) :P

[DS1]

5. Not in about 18 months, no

Not a peep

[bigwillq]

6. She has a new song out

TURN ON THE RADIO! And her CD moved up 5 spots to No. 19 according to Billboard after 72 weeks on the charts!

[DS1]

7. We don't get stations that play that crap

:P

[bigwillq]

8. So you don't get any Top 40 stations?

:shrug:







:P

[DS1]

9. None that I know of

:D

[MissMillie]

10. I don't know

I think lots of performers who I would condsider very talented who hardly ever perform their own stuff.

Yo Yo Ma
Izthak Perlman
Vladamir Horowitz
Beverly Sills



You get the idea.

I think there is talent to be had in performing someone else's stuff. You may not think that pop music is a difficult enough genre to require this particular talent, but I think a blanket statement saying that people who don't perform their own compositions is a bit harsh.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. You're comparing some of the most difficult pieces of music

ever written in the history of man to shit that Britney Spears lip-syncs? Are you kidding me?

No, the statement is not even a slight bit harsh because your comparison is WAAAAAY off base.

[MissMillie]

12. No, I'm not

I'm saying that there is talent in the art performing.

You may not think that there is talent in performing this material, and I believe I addressed that in my post (you know, where I said, "You may not think that pop music is a difficult enough genre to require this particular talent, but I think a blanket statement saying that people who don't perform their own compositions is a bit harsh.")

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. You misunderstand.

I'm saying the blanket statement comment is null and void in the face of the examples you've listed.

[MissMillie]

16. I didn't make a blanket statement

All I did was site some examples how how LynneSin's blanket statment may not hold true.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. Let's try one last time to clarify.

YOUR comment, the one you said:
You may not think that pop music is a difficult enough genre to require this particular talent, but I think a blanket statement saying that people who don't perform their own compositions is a bit harsh.

THAT is completely null and void in the face of the examples you've given. Saying that it requires the same amount of talent to re-hash the most difficult works of art man has created as it does to re-hash what is nearly universally known as complete garbage is just about as flawed a statement as someone could make.

[MissMillie]

20. that's not what that statement says

it says

Even though you think that it takes no talent to re-hash what is "nearly universally known as complete garbage" you have to admit that some artists who perform the works of other composers do have some talent.

What is it that you find "null" or "void" about that statement?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

26. Okay, but what you're saying is NOT what Lynne is saying at all.

You're saying she said that artist who perform other people's music have no talent.

She quite clearly states that re-hashing already written material is fairly easy compared to writing material for yourself. That is NOT saying that anyone who remakes a song has no talent.

[MissMillie]

27. Actually what she says

is that she respects composers more than she respects performers.

And all I did was give her an example of some performers that I thought she might respect just as much as some composers.

Fair enough?

[LynneSin]

13. Oh, I so agree with you

First - three of the names, Ma, Perlman and Horowitz, are NOT singers but performers of a musical instrument. One does not just pick up an intrument and play it but it takes years and perhaps decades of training to do justice to much of music that is out there. Plus all of them have done much of their own original works too.

As for Beverly Sills, I would NOT lump Opera singers into the same class as regular singers. There are additional skills & stylings needed to sing opera that makes it a cut above the average music you hear on the radio. Opera is a story and requires the singer to 'act' the music they are singing in order to promote the story (yes, you can find that in regular music but not the same way as Opera).

It's insultive that anyone would compare these very talented musicians to anything that comes out of American Idol

[MissMillie]

14. Oh Brother....

What I said was that maybe you shouldn't use a blanket statement about people who perform things that they didn't compose.

I wasn't comparing Idol to these folks, merely pointing out that the blanket statement was probably not such a good idea.

[LynneSin]

28. But you were doing obvious Apples vs. Oranges

the people you listed are not mere singers - they are skilled performers with unique talents (Cello, Violen, Opera Singing). Even outside American Idol I would not compare their talents to regular every day singers. It's like trying to compare the best cars out there and lumping things like Schwinn Bicycles & Harley Davidson Motorcycles into the bunch.

[MissMillie]

32. but I wasn't comparing them

I was merely pointing out that there were probably some people who do not write their own stuff that you would definitely say that you respect just as much as you do composers.

That's all.

[realisticphish]

18. one does not just "sing"

one takes years of training to learn to do it well. Now, I personally hate the music they perform. But that doesn't make them bad singers. For example, i think Kelly Clarkson has an excellent singing voice. I think she could be a fantastic singer. It's just that the music she performs is dreck :shrug:

If Yo Yo Ma played a backstreet boys song, it would suck because of the song, not the performer

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. No one's putting a gun to her head to perform crap music. (nt)

[realisticphish]

23. no

and i didn't say anyone was. But dreck is easy to produce, and people buy it. If your goal is to make money singing, you go for the easiest, quickest kind of music you can produce. ESPECIALLY when you're just starting out

[MissMillie]

25. I'm also willing to bet that

the contract she got from winning the contest gave someone else full control over what music she sings... at least for the first album she did, if not the first two, or three.....

[realisticphish]

29. yeah

i think that's pretty common with stand alone singers, regardless of how they get into the business

[Beware the Beast Man]

21. It would still be a bucket of arse.

[asthmaticeog]

22. I hear what you're saying, but...

it's not really practical to expect a brand-new, finished, polished, fully-arranged and well-rehearsed composition from a singer every week. And from the perspective of the backup musicians - learning all that new material every week and bringing it up to millions-of-viewers snuff in a week, especially in the early stages when there are like a dozen singers? No way that'd be possible. It's way easier to just buy a license to perform a known song - one that the backup musicians have likely already heard and played a zillion times anyway - and just go with that.

I'd love to see a songwriting competition, though, I'm with you on that. But writers aren't such a telegenic bunch. ;)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. One of Annie Lennox's greatest discs was all covers "Medusa"

The Dixie Chicks first several albums were all written by others because they are great musicians but by their own admission, not great songwriters.

I'm not fond of the overall format of the show and would appreciate if they would at least focus a bit on letting those who write their own stuff perform it but the show is at least honest in that it demonstrates that most record company careers are manufactured, but the same is true for the Beatles, The Beach Boys and *gasp* Led Zeppelin...every step of the way the business was telling them what to do until they reached a point of success and could do what they wanted.

[LynneSin]

30. You can't lump Beatles, LZ, Beach Boys and others into American Idol

I mean even the earliest works of these groups and others like them are still light years ahead of anything that was put out by American Idol. Some would say that LZ made their early career off the works of Gulf Coast Blues Musicians (hey, they did) but if you take a song but at least LZ had the abilty to take the song and uniquely brand it into their own musical standards - hardly what you see coming out of American Idol today

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. My comments were really limited to the fact that the careers were

manufactured to a degree by the record industry and largely what American Idol does is demonstrate how careers are manufactured. I know some of the past contestants did have their own original stuff but the show itself isn't formatted to display that but to display their stage persona.

That said, I watched one season and perhaps a few episodes of another. I haven't watched it lately. If anything, it bothered me seeing some of the more talented people sent home early in favor of those that simply got more calls because they found more people willing to spend whatever the cost was per call to call in many times.

And, again, at least in Annie's case, she does wonderful covers...

[Beaverhausen]

37. But she was already famous for her songs AND her voice when she did that

and the Chicks have actual musical talent.

[mduffy31]

33. I would have more respect

if they played an instrument, they don't have to be good, just tried. there is more than just being able to karaoke to a dance track to be considered talented.

[LynneSin]

38. I would watch a "Rock Star" type reality show looking for a guitar player

Sure, the contestants would play some of the 'tried & true' songs but there would also be challenges to create new & memorable guitar riffs.

I think they should do it!

[Jade Fox]

34. I been sayin!

just that same thing. These folks are doing what's already been done better by other people. That's not talent so much as it's imitation.

If you could tune in and see a nascent Dylan in the making, American Idol would be interesting. But it wouldn't get the ratings. AI features comfort music that the audience already knows. The show is not interested in challenging it's audience, but getting those massive ratings.

[skygazer]

35. I'd have more respect if they simply had to pay their dues

Part of what makes an artist an artist (IMO) is the years of work honing their craft, be it painting or singing or playing an instrument. Yeah, okay, some of these people have been singing in the church choir for several years - that's not a drop in the bucket.

To learn what works for you, what audiences react to, what styles you can do well and which you can't - that takes time, patience and hard work. And what annoys me about the whole American Idol thing is the elimination of that time and hard work. Instant stardom with a minumum of effort.

And for those who want to tell me how hard these kids work to get on the show and stay on the show, I say - oh, please! You can't compare that to time spent playing gig after gig after gig while holding down a regular job and working odd hours to scribble down music - it's a process that separates the crap from the cream.

[Beaverhausen]

36. some of the "Nashville Star" contestants are writers

and as a singer and songwriter - I agree wholeheartedly with you. American Idol is nothing more than karaoke...BAD karaoke. :puke:

[Tyrone Slothrop]

39. While I generally agree with what you're saying,

I don't think that necessarily holds true in this case.

Idol is looking for a Top 40 pop-star. Now, granted, my familiarity with this style of music is somewhat limited; however, it's my understanding that most of the artists in this genre don't write most of their own music. I don't think Britany writes most of her stuff, I don't think Christina writes most of her stuff, Pink, Jessica Simpson, etc. (Actually, I think that most of these artists' songs are penned by Linda Perry, formerly of 4 Non Blondes, IIRC or some other professional songwriter.)

If that's the standard for a "star" in that genre, I don't see why Idol should hold them to a higher one.