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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 09:31 AM
Original message
Parents - I need advice
My daughter is almost 7 and is extremely advanced for her age (I am not just bragging). She is an only child of divorced parents. She is quite manipulative, not in a malicious way, but manipulative nonetheless.

The problem is that I have a really hard time getting her to actually do as I tell her. Her excuses are "I just wanted to keep (insert activity here)". She is a student at Tae Kwon Do, and obviously the martial arts instructors stress discipline and obedience to the nines, and she does it for them. It is just me that she constantly ignores. Then I make the problem worse by losing my patience. Every morning this week we have had what could be billes as a PPV wrestling event as far as the exchanges of words, all before 7 in the morning.

I am so sad.
:cry:

So my fellow DUers, do you have any tips to share on how to keep my cool and communicate what I need to her effectively.

Thanks
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Always take a deep breath and count to 5
(or, as my mother would recommend, say a "Hail Mary")

then remind her that when you give her instructions, you expect her to follow them to the letter, unless she consults w/ you. Let her know that you may not necessarily agree with her adjustments to your instructions, but you'd like the option to approve or disapprove.

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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. She may respond well to the adjustment option
I have not tried that part. Thanks!
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ugh. Fun, isn't it?
Edited on Fri May-05-06 10:10 AM by LaraMN
When my oldest (he's 8) doesn't do what I tell him (ie: go clean his room), I remind him that he needs to do it NOW, and I stand there and watch until he does it. In general, I'm pretty flexible, but there simply isn't any negotiation about following directions. He either does what I tell him, or I force him to do it, AND he loses priveleges (bike, playing outside, GameBoy,etc.) When he wasn't keeping up on his reading work, we refused to buy him a new bike (his old one was stolen), until he got back on track. He got his work up to par SO fast that he'd almost reached his reading goal by mid- trimester. I work very hard to be close to my kids, and very open and empathetic, but I make sure that they know I'm their PARENT first and foremost, not just their "buddy." I don't know if that helps any, but it's what's worked pretty well so far, for us...:shrug: They're clever little stinkers, aren't they?
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I tried to explain to her that my job as her mommy was to
teach her to do the right thing, and that means following rules and directions. Then I put my teary-eyed little one on the school bus...I felt like a jerk!
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Beanie was getting very obnoxious in the morning.
I recently threatened to dock her allownace one dollar for every morning she acts crazy (she's crabby in the am). Voila. Problem solved.

A bright child at her age knows exactly what she must do in the morning. Make a deal on expectations and offer a reward for compliance, or a loss of something important for non-compliance.

Please also make sure she's getting enough sleep. That's where some of these morning problems originate.
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I already dock the allowance a dime
(she only gets $1 a week) for every time she disobeys. She also has to be ready on time in the morning, or she gets docked for that too. She gets about 10 hours of sleep a night (at least), so I think she is okay on that front.

Thanks for that tips!
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kiraboo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. She sounds very much like my so-called "genius" son.
He's about to turn thirteen. A sweet-natured kid and exceedingly gifted, he has always been ADAMANT about not doing what he doesn't feel like doing. One of the first things we tried, once he grasped the concept, was suspending his allowance or taking away privileges in order to get him to do what was requested: clean his room, take out the garbage, do the dishes when it was his turn, etc. In brief, it didn't work. He hates "work" more than the spectre of Death itself. It came to pass that I had no choice but to hover over him while he performed every horrible task. I could never just trust that he would do a good job, or any job at all! Long story condensed, he's nearly as big as I am now, and has turned a corner! He is still not suceptible to penalties (or bribes!) but he does the job when he's asked... just because. He's a super fellow and I love him. I wish you the same luck!
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I have found that I have to ask her to do one thing at a time
instead of "go upstairs, brush your teeth, make your bed..." I have to say each thing individually after she completes task one, and that is taxing my brain too. We are considering the fact that she may indeed be gifted (they don't test her until next year), and I hope that in figuring that out, I can make adjustments to both of our behaviors.
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kiraboo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That's interesting. I had a conversation recently about my niece.
Apparently she requires the same thing - that she be told step-by-step what to do. She's a bright girl. Her school counselor suggested that she has a fear of failure and therefore is unwilling to do anything without very explicit instructions.
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. That is an interesting analysis. I know that
she fears failure, so perhaps that is her way of dealing with it.

Thanks!
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coffeenap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. Check your pm--hope you don't mind. nt
Edited on Fri May-05-06 10:20 AM by coffeenap
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Thank you so much
:hug:
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. I had problems like that with my son when he was that age
I think part of his problem was the fact that his parents were divorced, he had a bit of anxiety about that and tried to manipulate me for attention. Losing my patience most definitely made it worse since it increased his anxiety.

I found that as long as I remained upbeat, cheerful and persistent, he responded better. When I tried to reason or bargain or got annoyed, he got more stubborn.

Don't know if any of that applies to your situation but that's my experience, for what it's worth. Here's a hug. Being a parent is so hard! (but so rewarding) :hug:
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I try so hard to be patient, but I am not the most patient
of people to begin with. I feel horrible because she has told me recently that she feels different because she doesn't know how to listen. Also, I guess some of the kids at school are telling her she is bossy (which she is, her nickname is Noriega, after all). So I am really trying to be more supportive when she is feeling low, but GRRRRR she just frosts my @$$ sometimes.

Thanks!
:hug:

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Is there a power vacuum? Sometimes kids will try to take over
if they sense parental unit not really firm about being in charge. Patience is a good quality, but consistence is important with young children. Young children should not be making a lot of lifestyle decisions; they don't have the experience or knowledge. Be consistent about being in charge ;) Listen to how you address her. Do you put most things as questions, hoping she will give the answer you want? Or are you clearly giving instructions? Parenting is not being the popular leader of a democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship. Grant more wiggle room as child grows and shows understanding of limits. It's tough, keeping the boundaries at good places as they grow, but seems to be a good method.

She WILL buck the system for a bit. Long years of observation has shown that kids who understand there are boundaries tend to be happier and more secure. If they understand boundaries, they are more likely to be liked by peers (possibly cuz they back of on the bossy thing?) There is a difference between maintaining necessary order for her well being and development and being a tyrant. Some parents seem to be uneasy about being in charge. Nature hates a vacuum; somebody has to be in power. ;)

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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well her dad is not the disciplinarian, that is for certain.
In fact, I feel like I have to "re-train" her when she comes back from spending a few days with him. I would like to think that I am pretty consistent with her, but damn, I feel like the SS sometimes, always giving her commands.

I am trying to let her be more independent, but when I need her to do things quickly, I find it easier to just do it (like get her dressed, brush her hair, wash her face, etc), which leads to conflict because she wants to do it on her own. It's just that it takes her FOREVER to do things because she will find a distraction (the drop of motor oil in the puddle is VERY fun to look at), if you know what I mean.

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. You're giving her power by letting her arguements bother you.
Don't even respond to them when she's being unreasonable or impolite, just be firm and tell her that she needs to do what you said and you'll discuss it later when you both have perspective.

I'm thinking she'll respond well if you can be firm without losing your cool.
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I know you are right, but it is the hardest thing to do.
I felt so bad putting her on the bus this morning with her little face still red from crying because I yelled at her.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. been there. it sucks.
Edited on Fri May-05-06 05:03 PM by elehhhhna
she's bright and they're generally more challenging to raise. Oh well. Don't engage on her level. Be firm. You have to be consistent long enough to persuade her you won't cave, but it'll be worth it. Also catch her doing things right (especially in the morning hour form hell).
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
15. You know - that's pretty common behavior in a child her age.
I am having similar problems with my 6-year-old daughter. She's sweet and darling and very rarely mouthy, but she just simply doesn't do as she's told. I have to get after her and after her and after her to make sure she's ready for school, and she has to be told several times to do any one thing (get her backpack, stack up her library books, brush her hair, etc).

I lose my patience too, so I second the suggestion that you count to five or ten in order to calm down. I don't like power struggles, but I don't like being late either. Sometimes you just have to get down on one knee, look them in the eye, and make sure they are actually hearing what you say.
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks L I W
I was trying to talk to her this morning, and kept trying to maintain eye contact, but on purpose, she will shift her eyes to the window, etc. I tried everything, moving her, holding her chin, etc. GRRR
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. I have to agree. VERY normal behavior, not stemming from any particular
personality trait, gift, intellect, etc. Just a kid learning how to develop routines, systems and living life.

Reduce the interactions. Make the morning routine into a list (but don't bother with a chart) Teeth, face, hair, bookbag, lunch, etc. This is just part of life really.

Use the clock to your advantage. Put her on your schedule.

"We're leaving in 20 minutes. Have you brushed your teeth? Had breakfast?"

"We're leaving in 10 minutes, is your bookbag ready?"

Anger creates a negative reaction to her behavior and means she's in control, and not in a good way. Remain passive, yet, when you get out of the house on time with all the routine managed, one nice word of "hey, we did real good getting out of the house this morning" will suffice. Don't over-emphasis life's daily chores, by any means.

Normal kid, normal behavior. It will pass with constistency and patience.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. In my experience ....
It wonder if your daughter is being stubborn as a way of exerting some control in her environment. After all, she's been through a divorce which is always very heavy for children. I wonder if this is just her carving out a space for herself, as destructive as it is.

As for anger, I have no difficulty with honest emotional reactions. Quite the opposite. They are very useful sources of information. In my experience, you're showing your daughter that what she does evokes this kind of response. What's really works during these times is to put your emotions into words. Saying something like "I get angry when you .... and I don't like it," is you being honest, honoring your emotions and short circuiting your chances of acting them out. Acknowledging them, will most likely calm you down somewhat and give you another space to come from.

Offering kids a pair of choices or activities or times frequently works in setting limits and getting them to make acceptable choices. If you offer only one choice, it doesn't take the brightest kid to quickly figure out that the implied other choice is "No and you can't make me."

One thing I've always done with kids is to tell them my reasons for what I say to them. That gives me the chance to see if what I'm saying is actually helpful or is based on something else. It also shows them that I'm not being just arbitrary because I can. If I find that something I'm asking is arbitrary or am running a habitual tape, then the highest-path thing for me to do is admit right then that that isn't a good reason and think out loud my concerns or change my mind. All in their presence. A valuable lesson for all.

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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You know, I usually do the explanation after I have the blow
up. I think I will try harder to explain BEFORE I explode.

Her kindergarden teacher found her to be one of the most well adjusted children of divorce that she had encountered in her 20+ years, but she may be acting out now. Thanks for that perspective and thanks for the tip!

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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. There's a lot here to work with.
I wonder if she's segmenting her behavior; school vrs. home as a way of managing her anxiety. It's a common enough way of dealing with things. I think it would be a sign of some kind of internal movement on her part if she'd be more accommodating at home and a little bit testing once in awhile at school. Of course, that would pass as she sloughs off some of her pain from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

I suspect you blow up because you let things go and go and go. Then, you give her all that held emotion. Just a thought.
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I tell her to do things at least 5 times and then lose it
I know I should just say it once, and then send her to her room (or whatever) if she doesn't do it, but when I go that route she always insists that she was in the process of "getting" to it, and cries like I ran over the dog or something.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. She's trained to ignore everything except your blow ups.
I think you're right saying things once and then enforcing consequences. If it were me, I'd tell her that "getting to it" is a either a lie or a game or whatever you more precisely see that it is because she's done nothing to show you that she is in fact getting to it. I'd also tell her that crying at those times is her just trying to see if she can manipulate you into changing your mind (which is a whole other schedule of reinforcement). When she cries, I'd just tell her that when she cries, the discussion is over and I'd reinforce my initial consequence.

One thing you might want to consider, if you think it's necessary to shape her behavior, is to have her earn things she now gets/takes for granted. I'd pose this to her as a possibility that you can always institute if she's shows she's unwilling to listen to you which is certainly a less intrusive way of dealing with things. I'd give her the choice which empowers her and lessens the likelihood of control battles.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. I have a girl child just that age...
Edited on Fri May-05-06 12:13 PM by bleedingheart
and I have let her know that I am OMNIPOTENT!!!! Bwahhahahaha (cue evil music)

Everytime she thinks she is going to treat me poorly, she loses a privilege or TV viewing or computer time or something else.

I rarely yell...and I don't negotiate...and she has learned the very hardest way that I am THE MOM...(do you hear me roaring???) Once she was so out of control at the mall with her behavior that I just took everyone home...no fun, no shopping no nothing...all the way home she cried..."I will be better...let us go back!" ...and all I did was reply calmly...well remember that next time cuz we are going home now... edit...never happened again

My daughter is an instant crier...which I want to break her of...I don't want her to think that her ability to control her tear spigot so well is a good way to manipulate me or others. I have had very good conversations with her about this and she is improving, I explained to her that she will lose people's respect if she manipulates them or uses her tears to get what she wants...even if she achieves her goal...crying isn't the way to get something...

It is really hard work to parent...however over time i have found that my two are growing up to be nice people...and I have been complimented on how well they behave....

note...I scream so rarely at my kids...that when I get really really mad..(I all it my 'crazy mom routine').it scares the living shit out of my kids and they will literally run into one another trying to make me happy...my husband is in awe of this effect..
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. My problem is
that I instinctively yell to prove my omnipotence. I was yelled at as a child too, so this is a cycle that needs to be broken, I know. People always tell me I have such a well-behaved, respectful, and delightful child, and in my head I am thinking "well, you are not me". She only treats me this way. She is a charmer and so well behaved for her father, grandparents, teachers, etc. I bear the brunt of her frustrations and anger.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. that respectful well behaved child is the result of the hard work you are
doing however it is hard trying to be the one who has to teach and coach. Basically everyone gets to see the end result except you and that is hard because you are the one they deal with most...

Have you tried using humor instead of yelling?

When my daughter is really running behind I will use an overblown english accent and go on and on about how her primping and fussing is such a problem...and her brother will laugh and while she may be mad...it will prompt her to move her keester along...because she hates being joked about ...(it is all in good humor...but it works and it helps me to keep the situation from getting worse)
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. What that's all about.
I've worked with severely disturbed children and one thing is certain. After they realize that you're going to keep them safe, that you're not going to hurt them, that you aren't going to let anyone hurt them or let them hurt themselves, then, they act out which is one of the ways they've found to blow off steam/ handling their high levels of anxiety.

What she's giving you is veiled affection. She's found that it works for her. I'd tell her that I was glad she loved me enough to share her anger/ frustrations/ whatever with me though I still want her to ....
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. I babysit for a real manipulative little beyatch.
Edited on Fri May-05-06 02:23 PM by WritingIsMyReligion
Age 6. Crazed thing--what a waste of intelligence, she is.

:crazy:

On Edit: I see this wasn't a constructive post. Just letting you know you're not at all alone in the "my kids are pains!" category... ;)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
31. the "cuz I told you so" comes to mind
Sometimes kids need their boundaries illuminated over and over again.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. Speaking as another single parent of an only kid (also advanced)....
We often have the same struggle. First of all, I have NOT solved the problem, but my idea is that she's doing this bcs she's trying to exert control over her life. Maybe related to the divorce, or maybe not. I'm trying to deal with it by making her transitions easier for her, but giving her a countdown, and making more of a routine out of every transition. Try also getting up 30 minutes earlier to ease the time crunch a bit. Also, try to keep what you tell her to do to a minimum. I often ask myself whether what I'm trying to get her to do is REALLY necessary. Sometimes it isn't and I let it go, like let her wear what she wants as long as she's warm enough.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
33. Power of Positive Parenting, Dr. Glenn Latham:
Clearly communicate your expectations to your children. This includes a clear description of those behaviors that will get your attention. This is typically taught best in a role-playing setting.

At the outset, make certain your children understand exactly what you expect of them. I'm continually amazed, as I visit with parents and their children who are having problems, at how unsure children are of what their parents expect, and how those expectations change given the mood of the situation.

When the child says to a parent, "I didn't know what you wanted me to do!" and the parent angrily responds, "What do you mean you didn't know what I wanted? What are you, stupid?" I know there is a serious communication problem concerning expectations.

Suppose, for example, that you expect your children to come to the dinner table when called. Rather than simply saying, "When I call you for dinner, I want you to come immediately. Now, do you understand that?" Instead, say, "When I call you for dinner, I want you to come immediately. So when do we expect you to come to the table for dinner?"

All of this shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Don't drag it out. Make it brief and make it crisp then let the children be on their way. Don't be concerned if the children don't agree with you. Agreeing is not that important, assuming that your expectations are reasonable. But their understanding of your expectations is important.

Most annoying behaviors of children are not worth paying attention to at all.

"Which behaviors should be attended to and which shouldn't?" Certainly, there is no way of identifying with absolute certainty, but, as a general rule of thumb, age-typical behaviors such a mild sibling rivalry and when children are just being mouthy with one another, should be ignored.
Occasionally, children will scrap with each other even to the point of pushing, shoving, grabbing, and hitting, more for the purpose of annoying than for hurting. These behaviors can usually be ignored. Just turn your back on them or completely walk out of the room. Say nothing about them. Don't even look at the children when they are behaving this way. Behave as though the children are not even there.

Children who fuss over toys or territory or what's fair should generally be ignored. Children who argue with one another and exchange meaningless verbal blows should be left alone.
To sum it up, I'm reminded of the biblical admonition to "Be slow to anger," and of the Chinese proverb, "If you are patient in one moment of anger, you will escape a hundred days of sorrow." Be slow to pay attention to behaviors which are basically age-typical and when left alone extinguish because of lack of attention. Behaviors that fall in this category tend to become apparent within a short period of time.

Place your emphasis on building relationships between you and your children in many positive ways.

Without a doubt, the key to developing high quality human behavior is through the selective, positive reinforcement of appropriate behavior.

When I talk about the selective, positive reinforcement of appropriate behaviors I mean simply that we as parents MUST be constantly aware of the behaviors of our children and to carefully select and skillfully reinforce those behaviors that should be strengthened.

It is neither possible nor appropriate to attend to every "good" thing a child does every time he or she does it. To do that would be artificial and even punishing to a child. Instead, look for opportunities to pay attention, in a positive way, to a few select, appropriate behaviors, and do it intermittently, i.e., at times children least expect it.

Not infrequently a parent will be unable to acknowledge behavior immediately, and reinforcement has to be delayed. Perhaps the parents are working, are away at the time, or are not aware of what the child did. It's important to give delayed reinforcement in these instances.

Virtually all children, in the course of the day, will do or say something that is worth selecting out for reinforcement. Soon, selectively reinforcing appropriate behavior will become second nature to you. It might seem a little awkward at first, but in time it will be as natural as driving a car, dialing a telephone, playing the piano, or whatever else a person does fluently.

Occasionally, children will exhibit behaviors that simply can't be ignored. These are behaviors which left unattended can result in serious damage and harm to person and property.

I must emphasize again the importance of looking first for opportunities to positively reinforce selected appropriate behaviors. In 99 out of 100 cases, when this is done systematically and consistently, there will be little need to worry about inappropriate behaviors.

There will be no need for children to behave inappropriately if they are getting all the attention they need by behaving appropriately. Having said that, however, there still exists the probability that a child at some time will behave inappropriately to such a degree that it must be attended to.
When that's the case, first determine whether the behavior is a predictably reoccurring behavior or whether it is an unexpected, out-of-the-blue, behavior. It is important to make the distinction between these two kinds of behaviors since the approach you should use is different for the one than for the other.

Let's begin with the treatment of those rare, unexpected, out-of-the blue behaviors. Suppose that for no readily apparent reason one child uncharacteristically lashes out at another child either verbally or physically. Maintaining complete composure, but with firmness in his/her voice and a stern but controlled facial expression, the parent should immediately put a stop to the assault. Speaking in a therapeutic, understanding, relaxed manner, send the child to his room for a moment to cool off. You might even place your hand gently on the child's back and move him or her in the direction of the bedroom.

If the child resists this directness and angrily lashes back do not try to correct the child or set him straight. Don't say a single word in response to such an outburst. Say simply, "I'm sorry you're upset about something. Go to your room and relax. You'll feel much better soon."

Such a response will reassure the child that he or she might indeed have a reason for having lashed out at the other child. With this reassurance, the probability is very high that the child will go to his room as instructed by the parent, and the whole matter will end there.

If the child who was the object of the assault complains about being the innocent victim of a mean brother/sister, the parent should be careful not to try to determine or affix blame, to act as a negotiator to seek redress, or to do anything else to try and set the record straight. Efforts of this nature invariably do nothing but complicate things and drag the conflict on indefinitely. Simply say, "I'm sorry you feel you've been an innocent victim. You'll feel better soon." Then leave it at that.

Later, when everyone is feeling better and emotions have calmed down, look for opportunities to selectively reinforce appropriate behaviors. At such a time, it is also appropriate to discuss feelings, but DO NOT allow that discussion to degenerate into fault finding, searching for fairness, placing blame, and all that junk. Use the discussion to clear the air, develop skills, and build bonds.

Never try to resolve a problem if a person is drunk, stoned, emotionally distraught, or out of touch with reality.

When the same, even predictable, inappropriate behavior is occurring, parents can effectively attend to that behavior. First, describe the behavior. Descriptions like "you are too mean," "you''ve got to shape up," etc. are not acceptable. You must be very specific, such as "We've noticed during the last two weeks, that almost daily, you have gotten very angry with your brother. Why are outbursts of anger so inappropriate?" Don't ask why he is angry, rather why such outbursts are inappropriate. This invites the child to become part of the problem-solving process.

The child will usually try to blame someone else, minimize the problem, or sidetrack the conversation. Ignore those attempts. Acknowledge any appropriate response and then describe the desired alternative behavior. Ask about the things he/she can do that will show self control in stressful situations, and why that is desirable. Supply the reason if none is forthcoming.
Role play a situation, which is practicing the desired behavior.

Give positive feedback. And then watch for opportunitities to acknowledge not only the child' s self control but other positive things as well. Keep the conversation short, use only a few words, be understanding but firm.

1. Say something positive.
2. Briefly describe the problem behavior.
3. Describe the desired alternative behavior.
4. Give a reason why the new behavior is more desirable.
5. Practice the desire behavior.
6. Provide positive feedback.
This procedure works really well in school and home settings.

As children grow from infancy through childhood and into adolescence, we notice some interesting things happening in the way parents interact with them. What we notice is a bit distressing, given the effects these things have on putting distance between parents and their children.

Parents spend a great deal of time holding newborn babies close and cuddling them, stroking them, talking to them, looking into their eyes, poking them with their fingers, smiling at them, and trying to invoke smiles and laughter. But by the time children are adolescents, particularly boys, there is a remarkable decline in the frequency of touching, hugging, patting, or poking. There is very little shooting the breeze, chitchat, and casual talk, and in many homes, almost no laughter. The incidence of smiling has even taken a nose-dive.

We know how much influence a parent has over a child's behavior is directly related to the proximity of the parent to the child. In other words, the closer parents are to their children the greater the influence they can have on them, This, of course, is particularly true with young children who are still at home, but it is true, as well, with children who are raised and out of the home.

Here are a few suggestions for how to remain close to our children:

1. Remain verbally close to your children.
Spend time talking to your children. Model good verbal behavior. Teach your children through example and involvement how to express themselves, how to listen, and how to engage in conversation one with another.

2. Build a positive relationship.
Unless what you are about to say or do has a high probability of making things better, don't say it and don't do it -- just talk, don't judge, don't sermonize, don't moralize, don't instruct, don't reason, don't advise - just talk. This doesn't mean there will never be times when you will advise or instruct, but make those separate occasions when that is what the occasion is for.
3. Increase appropriate physical interactions.

In addition to hugging, appropriate touching, tapping, rubbing, patting, scratching, and jabbing are wonderful ways of communicating with our children. Arm wrestling, playfully scrapping on the playing field, a good back and shoulder rub at the end of the day-this is the glue that binds.

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. This sounds a lot like my mother the kindergarten teacher
explaining how to keep a large class orderly, peaceful, and productive.

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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Works pretty well on two or three children, as well. nt
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. This is great! Thanks for posting it!
:yourock:
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. My pleasure. I think you can get Dr. Lathan's book on Amazon.
I have it and it is just good common sense. I saw him give a talk several years ago and he has helped us raise our 3 bundles of joy. (so far)
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
35. When they are teenagers they are even worse...
:headbang:

The way to keep your cool is to keep your cool. A "time out" is as much for you as it is for her.

I have two kids. They are polite in public, they do well in school, but I swear, at home they can be monsters. If I hadn't had so much, um, practice dealing with them when they were younger, there's no way I could cope now.

The problem may be that you are okay, or maybe have some positive feelings about "insert activity here." With my kids "insert activity here" is usually something I see as okay or positive, like drawing, writing, playing basketball, etc., but you know, really, sometimes they've got to clean their bathroom.

I also have had trouble getting them to do things for themselves. When they were little, yeah, I could make them breakfast and lunch, and do their laundry, but now I'm not willing to be their servant. My youngust will drag on before school, not make his lunch, not have his clothes together, and then as he's going out the door with one shoe on, and the other in his hand say, "Oh, I need some lunch money," and his brother will say "I MADE MY LUNCH" and then they fight as I'm driving them to school.

One of these days I'm going to throw them both out of the car.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
40. I teach gifted kids
for a living and manipulative is their MO.

Simplify. Explain your expectations. Explain the consequences for not meeting those, and keep to it. Don't over analyze. Just do it.

Don't bother with reasons "because I am your mommy" is sufficient for now. Gifted kids sometimes seem like little old people, and we think we need to reason with them like adults. We forget they are kids.

Good luck.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-06-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. I learned that lesson the hard way with my older boy...
All my reasoning with him merely turned him into a Philadelphia lawyer...and I don't mean that he lives in Philly.

My younger boy is 7, and will occasionally throw a tizzy-fit; but he gets over them remarkably quickly in comparison to his big brother at his age. There's a lot to be said for, "That's just the way things are."
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hatredisnotavalue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
41. She is not too young for "The List"
We have been doing the list every day since my kids were little. Either at snack time or after dinner make a list out of the next day's activities. Have it on the fridge and a nice set up to either put a check next to the completed activity or a star.

When my kids saw how much free time I put on the list for them to do as they chose, they never had a problem doing the piddly stuff like: pack your backpack, brush your teeth, lay out your clothes for the next day. Once they got homework, I would do half an hour of homework, one hour of tv, layout your clothes, 15 minutes of homework, one hour free outside play. Usually they would get all of their stuff done so their tv time or outside play activity wasn't interrupted.

I guarantee you when you as a parent push, the kids will push back ten fold. Hope this helps!
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CC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-06-06 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
44. I would agree with the list.
Give her a written list of what she needs to do, then let her do it in whatever order she wants. If she runs out of time, it won't hurt to bad if she misses brushing her teeth, hair or breakfast once or twice to learn the concept of time. It doesn't take more than once or twice. Keep your cool around her, even if you have to go into the bathroom and do a silent scream to let out the stress. It worked wonders with my son and neither of us were morning people. We started it in kindergarten so every morning wasn't yelling. Sometimes I had to bite my lip to not tell him what order to do things. He missed brushing his teeth or hair maybe twice each and only missed breakfast once. The one other thing I made a point of doing every day was as soon as I was done working he got at least 15 minutes of my undivided attention. No gathering stuff up, no cooking dinner,no what you need to do, no tv, just parent and kid time. I say 15 minutes because that long was about all he wanted and he was off to do homework, help with dinner or help with chores. That was shared with me and I have since shared it with lots of other parents, most single and you won't believe what a difference it can make in a child. Good luck and remember this too will pass, unfortunately way to fast.


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