So I installed Vista. Initial impressions within:

[Deja Q]

To make things short:

It looks like a Linux hack with its glossy glassy interface. Ho-hum, bum-dumb.

It's bloated as hell. It uses 450MB RAM just for itself. :wow:

The new UI isn't remotely consistent. The display preferences (now called "personalize") opens up in a big-ass window... with some not-so-sundry options on the left side.

I copied a bunch of files. A dialogue appears on screen. The status indicator glows and blips and a separate graphic twirls in the background. This alone has a 10%~45% performance hit on a P4-2.5GHz box w/512MB installed, copying from ATA100 drive to a USB Flash RAM module. That's asinine.

The side-bar is clearly an idea taken from any number of Linux UIs...

There is a folder called C:\WINDOWS\Globalization. :wtf:

There are no themes apart from the default, no way to make themes... Screw it, it's as limited as XP. No doubt MS will release an expansion pack for some ungodly sum that'll allow such changes.

Its security, the only thing that's truly new or different, is outrageously intrusive and repetitive, just to update even one frigging video driver. What an annoyance from hell. By contrast, Linux is logical and keeps security streamlined with much less needless repetition.

So, it looks like a streamlined, glossy, needlessly animated version of XP with "security" developed by people who have no concept of what "common sense security" is. It's a patchwork quilt. Made with substandard threads.

Now it did install fairly quickly... but that's hardly a selling point. It's not how quickly the initial load time is. But what you do once it's loaded. As usual, MS has no clue.

I'll stick to Linux.

[BlueJazz]

1. Doesn't sound very cool. Ah....you mentioned 450 Meg.....

..XP takes about 3 times that much or did you mean "on top of XP" ??

[Deja Q]

2. 450MB system RAM. Not HD space, sorry 'bout that...

Vista needs 6GB just for itself; MS recommends 15GB free.

RAM usage; XP typically needs 160. :ouch: XP Tablet PC edition needs ~400MB. Vista b2 needs 450MB. :ouch::ouch:

[BlueJazz]

4. Opps..My fault...sorry . 6 Gig..Jesus Christ!!!!

Damn! screw that :)

[Deja Q]

5. WHERE!

I've always wanted to get His autograph! :D

And I've seen his picture. I'd probably be inclined, but only if He agreed. Rape ain't my gig, man... :rofl:

[BlueJazz]

24. HypnoToad..You are Very, Very Wierd! I Love It! LOL...n/t

[Renew Deal]

8. My install was over 450.

But that was two beta versions ago. I had to revert to classic themes, and turn off all kinds of stuff.

[Deja Q]

18. Which means you've turned off Vista's main selling points.

Now by 450MB, do you mean RAM or HD space? (I'm assuming RAM)

Of course, my test box has only 512MB. If it had a gig, I would undoubtedly see more RAM being used. I'll give credit to Microsoft for the OS looking at the PC and determining how to most efficiently waste its resources... :evilgrin:

[Renew Deal]

20. One of my coworkers installed it in a VM with over 3GB

memory. It's working well for him. One of the problems is that unless you have a compatible video card, some of the features are useless.

[Deja Q]

22. And I betcha most users won't have the required video power.

My test box did not.

No VM box surely could not. Not until huge revisions are made... and Vista has little left but its much hyped interface.

[Placebo]

3. It's only going to be like 4+ years behind schedule upon release!

And missing most of what was promised would be in it!

Woo-hoo! :party:

HeHe. :evilgrin:

Can you post some screenshots? I'm a total screenshot addict/whore.

[Deja Q]

6. Screenshot

Sorry, I can only post placebos for Vista... :rofl:


I did find These goodies

[Placebo]

9. Cool!

I do like how they tried to streamline the appearance of screens and menus and stuff compared to the Fisher-Price look of XP.

Does Vista have a "Classic" option in the viewing preferences like XP did?

[Deja Q]

12. Well, if you want to call it "classic" mode...

Vista's "classic" mode is a radical alteration from XP's version.

Something of a shock, but the neo-classic mode is far better than their new mode's imposed castrations upon the user base, who is far too dumbed down in the first place.

[Renew Deal]

7. It's beta software

And you're well documented Microsoft hater, so what's the point anyway.

[Deja Q]

10. When it comes to Microsoft, it's ALWAYS beta... What's your point?

Now while you're at it, tell me why I hate Microsoft.

Product quality (or lack thereof, I remember when a small footprint was a desired quality)?

Business practices (they're predators, no better than Wal-mart)?


Besides, as you well know, it's not the OS but the software that gets a person to use the platform. The real problem lies with the software developers; without them, Microsoft would have gone bankrupt a long time ago.

[seemunkee]

14. So true

If mainframe software was as buggy as MS stuff is no one would have bought it. Remember when NT came out and all the magazines made a point of the fact that NT had more lines of code than MVS

[Deja Q]

16. Also, if I am a MS-hater, why would I give Vista even a cursory glance?

:D

I don't blindly hate, but I wanted to see what the hype was about. And it's, so far, an invisible outfit for the emperor...

Now consider Microsoft is coming out with a clusterfarm OS... to compete against mainframes and supercomputers. :scared: Based on Windows, as usual, nobody in their right mind should be considering it -- but managers, penny pinching constipated fools, only believe in marketing hype... :(

[Renew Deal]

17. "When it comes to Microsoft, it's ALWAYS beta"

That's pretty funny. My point is that you should say that you're working with Beta software that is 5-7 months from completion. There is a lot to knock Microsoft on with Vista, but it has more to do with what's not included. Microsoft over-committed with features like WinFS, IE enhancements and much more. So they are just not including them. They also have to rebuild whole sections of software because of poor implementation. But as long as it's beta software, there's not much to legitimately complain about.

[Deja Q]

21. I do agree with you and will keep in mind that it is a pre-release edition

I do know betas include lots of "debugging code" and other tidbits.

WinFS would have been nice, particularly as it had been promised time and time again. The retooling of NTFS into something more complex really posed a problem for them. (that should be considered an omen...)

And, yes, as long as it's beta, anything can change by the time it's officially released and I see plenty of legit opportunties - most of which Microsoft is already aware of and is working on. (My sarky sense of humor aside, I am not an empty hater... and I can't wait for the proper release. But, so far, if this is the direction they plan on sticking with, it's going to be a very overpriced joke. And only the jokes will spend that much money for it... google up what MS wanted to charge for Vista's 5 editions. But I've gathered they've retracted their piece... unsurprisingly. Up to $500 for one license? Sod that...)

[Renew Deal]

23. I think they're up to 7 editions.

Anything more than 3 is nuts. Home, Pro, and Media is more than enough. There are going to be 2-3 Professional versions. Those for enthusiasts, those for smaller rollouts and then enterprise. That's just dumb and confusing. It's a way to rape people for cloning features.

[mwooldri]

27. News flash: Microsoft teamed up with Sony to launch Video Format.

I think they called it Beta Max or something like that. I think it might catch on!

[seemunkee]

11. I would have to buy new hardware for half the office.

Have they released a beta of Office? I'm hoping I can run it on eveyone's machines, otherwise I'll get Office 2003 and try to make our stuff last a while longer.

[Deja Q]

13. Not to my knowledge, but Office 2007 will be released around the same time

Not that I care. I use office 2000 at home. There's little in Office 2003 I could care for... and then Openoffice.org is just as good, and is just as viable in a corporate setting as well. It's worth checking out, and Office 2003 prices are ridiculous in of themselves...

[seemunkee]

15. That's what they say, I'm hoping they don't wait that long

There are some issues with backwards compatability that we run into with our govt clients that are running Office/Project 2003

[Deja Q]

31. Logically, well as logical as marketing gets, they would have to wait:

Release both products at the same time and people will buy them both. Psychological marketing.

The same was the case for Windows 95 and Office 95. Neither of which was fully 32-bit and therefore not effectively 32-bit.

[Renew Deal]

19. I haven't seen any publically available Office betas.

And I am a technet subscriber. But I have seen the software in action. There are a lot of changes. Here's MS's site: http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx

I can't find the infoworld article about having to retrain people, but here's lots of info. http://www.google.com/search?q=office+2007+%2B+infoworld&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N

[electricmonk]

25. 20 Things you won't like about Windows Vista

Your experience seems to follow this writers. Computer World

"Microsoft is focused on casting off its yoke as the industry's security whipping boy. It's also intent on raising the bar to 64-bit architecture, driving the need for advanced video hardware and dual-core motherboards, and pushing the RAM standard to 2GB -- all to help spur hardware and software sales over the next several years. Even though there are many great aspects of Windows Vista, taken as a whole, this next one could be Microsoft's first significant operating system failure in quite some time -- at least, as it's configured in Beta 2."
.
.
.
"OK, this is smart. Take a primary interface structure in use for more than 20 years and already known to hundreds of millions of computer users worldwide, and hide it from them. This appears to be a Microsoft-wide strategy, since Office 2007 also does away with the classic File, Edit, View and other menus in favor of relocating many of the same functions to other places in the user interface. What, are they nuts?"
.
.
.
"The Display Control Panel, which was conveniently accessed by right-clicking the desktop and choosing Properties in previous versions of Windows, is like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. Pieces of it are here, there everywhere.

Previously, a neat tabbed dialog handled Themes, Desktop (including desktop icons), Screensaver, Appearance customizations and video card/monitor settings such as resolution and color depth. Apparently, that was too difficult for newbies to grasp. Vista offers the new "Personalization" Control Panel, which bewilderingly places some items on the left side as hyperlinks and others as major settings areas on the right with icons, larger headings and descriptive text. As if the tabbed dialog didn't have enough stuff, Personalization adds Sound Effects and Mouse Pointers. It sounds like it's a good organization, but the net effect is that there are more clicks and more clicking around to find the settings that were once clustered together -- where they belong. Of all the makeovers in Vista, this isn't the worst one. But it is the first one you'll likely notice and be less than thrilled about."

[Deja Q]

28. They must hate Microsoft too.

:rofl:

I will give MS some cred for trying to make the OS more secure, but it does feel like a packet of cheap band-aids rather than something developed from the core. It's only going to hurt in the long run, and considering where we are right now, I'm talking a new and depressing re-definition of "hurt".

I also don't like how easy it is to generate video-related BSODs. Remember, Windows NT 4 moved the graphic subsystem from ring 0 to ring 3, as means to improve performance. Since ring 0 is protected and ring 3 isn't, that led to problems too. And given how ATI has a well known history of making AWFUL drivers (don't get me started), to team up with ATI for Vista is a disaster in the making, if the final product mirrors the beta.

Point 18 is of obvious interest. Microsoft is obviously trying to pull a "what you can do we now can suddenly do and better." Sounds fishy to me.

I will admit this "shim" idea is genuinely interesting; but it sounds more like another band-aid and therefore easy to peel off... Never mind how it's going to affect legit programs even more. Microsoft needs to start anew, or go back in time and sack the idiot who said "the registry is the greatest idea ever!" (Even I knew at the time it was a bad move...)


#14 is interesting when you consider MS has said it wants to improve peer networking. :wtf: I thought they'd be against it...so by "improve", it's not for the users' benefit...

#11 is a biggie, oddly.

Lets hope they deal with #7, and not in a way that compels a user to spend even more money. Vista's prices, up to $500/license (or $350 or $900, depending on source), are horrendous enough as it is.

#5 is another gem; I hated the new appearance. Especially as the "Run" command is not there. never mind replacing words meant for one's own language with those icons that nobody of any language can figure out...

#4 is one I am at odds with; it did install reasonably quick for me.

It's also funny how a lot of multimedia features (media center, DVD maker, et al) would be geared toward home users - but can only be had in solely the two most expensive editions. :dunce:



Of course, that article is covering a beta. With luck the official Vista won't be as bad. :rofl:

[billyskank]

33. I think Microsoft is trying to punish NVidia

They junked NVidia chips as well in the X-Box 360 in favour of ATI. I think they are pissed at NVidia's support for Linux, or something.

[Deja Q]

34. Pity. I will not rely on ATI and their purported "quality".

and Microsoft has a history of not caring about stability... their loss.

Nvidia will undoubtedly cope.

[gkdmaths]

26. 1 word: Ubuntu. n/t

.

[Deja Q]

29. Another word: Suse.

:D

Ubuntu is cool too. :thumbsup:

[billyskank]

30. Slackware!!!

:bounce:

Once you go slack, you never go back! :D

;)

[Deja Q]

32. Yeah, but nobody's wanted to take mine off yet!

:cry:

[qnr]

35. Well, since we're adding: Source Mage GNU/Linux n/t